Top 5 MU Players of All Time

[GooooMarquette]

In the three years Meminger ran the team:

78 wins 9 losses

Home: 46 wins 0 losses

Case Closed!

Agree.   I don't see how anyone could keep Dean off their team any more than they could keep off Lee or Wade.   He was the engine that ran a team that had incredible success over three years.

[buckchuckler]

Diener should probably be above everyone else on this list except for Wade.  And I'd say DJO and Jae were better college players than Butler.  Maybe even better than Matthews, thanks to Coach Tom Crean holding that dude back.

Haven't been through all of this yet, but I love that it took like 8 posts before Wade's had to tell someone that their personal opinions were wrong. 

[dgies9156]

dgies9156

IMO, MU has had great players that would have been great anywhere they went. Have also had players that might have been great if they went elsewhere. The great one's are noticed even by casual fans. I am tough grader and many of the post Al names mentioned do not register as great or even very good to me.

Goose:

Surprisingly, I tend to agree. I'm a tough, outcome-based grader as well. In that vein, here are my thoughts as the five best post-Al Marquette players. I would challenge folks to place these guys against the Al era best:

DWade       --     Clearly the best player since 1978 and maybe the best player ever for Marquette. The Kentucky game in Minneapolis probably was the best single game ever played by someone wearing an MU jersey
Tony Smith --    Great player, good person and bad teams. I really liked this guy and thought it was a real shame the teams weren't better while he was here
Jeral McNeal --   Again, great ballplayer. Probably stacked up well against the Al era players
Jim McIlvaine -- Best center we had since Jerome Whitehead. Why is it that Racine produces the best centers ever from our program!
Steve Novak -- Tank about automatic! This guy had the best shot I've seen in ages and what he did against Missouri as a freshman in 2002 was one for the ages.

All five of these guys probably could have played for Al. Two other notables would be Sam Worthen and Oliver Lee. I left Rivers off as well, though if a career were based on a mega-long range shot that beat Notre Dame, he'd be on the list. Guy was good but, I like this group better!

[Galway Eagle]

Goose:

Surprisingly, I tend to agree. I'm a tough, outcome-based grader as well. In that vein, here are my thoughts as the five best post-Al Marquette players. I would challenge folks to place these guys against the Al era best:

DWade       --     Clearly the best player since 1978 and maybe the best player ever for Marquette. The Kentucky game in Minneapolis probably was the best single game ever played by someone wearing an MU jersey
Tony Smith --    Great player, good person and bad teams. I really liked this guy and thought it was a real shame the teams weren't better while he was here
Jeral McNeal --   Again, great ballplayer. Probably stacked up well against the Al era players
Jim McIlvaine -- Best center we had since Jerome Whitehead. Why is it that Racine produces the best centers ever from our program!
Steve Novak -- Tank about automatic! This guy had the best shot I've seen in ages and what he did against Missouri as a freshman in 2002 was one for the ages.

All five of these guys probably could have played for Al. Two other notables would be Sam Worthen and Oliver Lee. I left Rivers off as well, though if a career were based on a mega-long range shot that beat Notre Dame, he'd be on the list. Guy was good but, I like this group better!

So while these guys had the talent to play for Al would they have been recruited? Based on the narrative of some of the older posters we'd look something like KU or something which I don't believe any of these guys had a shot at going to.

[Earl Tatum]

My first Team is-Wade, Ellis, Lee, Chones and Hayward.
                  Cheating
Second Team--Meminger or 1st Team, Lucas, McNeil, Thompson, Rivers

Third Team---Mike Moran, Rand, Kojis, Worthen, Powell, Key and Bob Wolf. Some of these old timers were very good.

[wadesworld]

Haven't been through all of this yet, but I love that it took like 8 posts before Wade's had to tell someone that their personal opinions were wrong.

Hmm.  I might've missed it somewhere in there, but where did I say anything about someone's opinions being wrong?  I offered my own opinion on the matter, just like...well, this entire thread.  Lol.

[muwarrior69]

I hope you realize that McNeal, Hayward, and James played 4 years to Thompson's 3 years.

None of them could touch George as a scorer.

...and no 3 pt basket as well.

[4everwarriors]

Ya no, dis 'hole thread is like bitchin' woos old lady is betta lookin', ai na?

[Goose]

4ever

If talking about 10-12guys I agree. When Michael Wilson, Tony Miller, Hayward and others get mentioned I feel we have an obligation to knock that down.

[4everwarriors]

Yer wright. I completely lose it when Jerel enters da discussion, hey?

[Galway Eagle]

4ever

If talking about 10-12guys I agree. When Michael Wilson, Tony Miller, Hayward and others get mentioned I feel we have an obligation to knock that down.

With all due respect Hayward was an honorable mention all American and a first rounder. Miller was a 2nd team all conference in a mid major league. Wilson was a third rounder.  There's actually some national people who'd agree lazar was one of our all time greats it'd be hard to find people who'd list the other two in that convo

[GGGG]

I never recall the Great Midwest being labelled a "mid major" at the time.  It most certainly did not have that reputation. 

[GooooMarquette]

I never recall the Great Midwest being labelled a "mid major" at the time.  It most certainly did not have that reputation.

It wasn't.  UC was regularly a top-10 team, and MU and Memphis had nice seasons too.  Even SLU had a nice season with Larry Hughes.

[Goose]

Bagpiping

The all time greats were first team all Americans and never were on teams not ranked in top ten. The three guys mentioned fall into the good category, not the very good group.
Earl Tatum would be the standard of very good to me and none of the other guys mentioned could carry Earl's jockstrap. Again, I fully understand why the bar for the program is where it currently is set.

[real chili 83]

In terms of the purposes of this conversation, Chris Crawford does not belong. 

However, he had a 7 year NBA career and made more money than any of us (except Chicos) could ever dream of.  For that matter, guys like Sam Worthen, Artie Green, Gary Brell, lazar Hayward, etc. would have killed for Crawfor's career.  On top of it, he's from Kalamazoo!

Go figure.

Hi Jamie.

[Goose]

4 ever

Jerel was never the best player on any MU team he played on.

[Galway Eagle]

Bagpiping

The all time greats were first team all Americans and never were on teams not ranked in top ten. The three guys mentioned fall into the good category, not the very good group.
Earl Tatum would be the standard of very good to me and none of the other guys mentioned could carry Earl's jockstrap. Again, I fully understand why the bar for the program is where it currently is set.

What is "I fully understand why the bar for the program is where it currently is set" supposed to mean? That I don't want us to win? It's comments like that that got you accused of being whinny and negative during the season and you started complaining about those accusations.

with due respect you're coming off like a dad who's kid could have been all American and you'd still say "eh you still couldn't stand up to the guys from when I was young" we don't have many all Americans in our history and those that were are a pretty darn elite group. Unless you're going to claim that all American standards have lowered in which case I'd argue you have the exact opposite of recencey bias where "everything was better when I was a youngin"

http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/all-americans

[real chili 83]

What is "I fully understand why the bar for the program is where it currently is set" supposed to mean? That I don't want us to win? It's comments like that that got you accused of being whinny and negative during the season and you started complaining about those accusations.

with due respect you're coming off like a dad who's kid could have been all American and you'd still say "eh you still couldn't stand up to the guys from when I was young" we don't have many all Americans in our history and those that were are a pretty darn elite group. Unless you're going to claim that all American standards have lowered in which case I'd argue you have the exact opposite of recencey bias where "everything was better when I was a youngin"

http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/all-americans

Football analogy.  See Joe Namath.  Johnny (sp) Unitas, etc

[Goose]

Bagpiping

Have a nice night.

[4everwarriors]

4 ever

Jerel was never the best player on any MU team he played on.

Frankly, one of the dumbest basketball players, on the court, who ever wore the Warrior uni, hey?

[4everwarriors]

What is "I fully understand why the bar for the program is where it currently is set" supposed to mean? That I don't want us to win? It's comments like that that got you accused of being whinny and negative during the season and you started complaining about those accusations.

with due respect you're coming off like a dad who's kid could have been all American and you'd still say "eh you still couldn't stand up to the guys from when I was young" we don't have many all Americans in our history and those that were are a pretty darn elite group. Unless you're going to claim that all American standards have lowered in which case I'd argue you have the exact opposite of recencey bias where "everything was better when I was a youngin"

http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/all-americans

This is watt I'm talkin' 'bout. Everythin' is dummied down and let's hand out participatin' metals, hey?

[Galway Eagle]

Football analogy.  See Joe Namath.  Johnny (sp) Unitas, etc

Not a big football guy. Can you give a NBA or Boxing analogy?

Bagpiping

Have a nice night.

Either you're reading the wrong emotion from my comment or only willing to make false accusations about my standards and not back them up. But you have a nice night as well.

[rocket surgeon]

      when i look back at the "hey day" and the AL years, i'd love to go back for just one day to re-appreciate them.  man that was a great time but we(I) didn't even know how great of a time it was, at the time.  when i catch myself talking to my boys(MU grads '09 and '12) about AL and his teams, i have to stop...ya really just had to be there.  my point is, and i'm not trying to suck up to anyone, but goose and 4ever are right on.  glow i think was there and a few others.  as far as i'm concerned, these guys are the E.F. huttons of MU b-ball and it was a helluva a ride!

    goose-loved the composure 

[Dr. Blackheart]

Frankly, one of the dumbest basketball players, on the court, who ever wore the Warrior uni, hey?

Polo only scored in the wrong basket. O-Lee decided to try out for Club Football QB. Looney Toone punched his coach at halftime. Mboa didn't know how to guard the inbounds. Crean out coached by an assistant. That is a high bar of dumb.

[GooooMarquette]

      when i look back at the "hey day" and the AL years, i'd love to go back for just one day to re-appreciate them.  man that was a great time but we(I) didn't even know how great of a time it was, at the time.  when i catch myself talking to my boys(MU grads '09 and '12) about AL and his teams, i have to stop...ya really just had to be there.  my point is, and i'm not trying to suck up to anyone, but goose and 4ever are right on.  glow i think was there and a few others.  as far as i'm concerned, these guys are the E.F. huttons of MU b-ball and it was a helluva a ride!

I lived through the Al era while I was growing up.  My dad had season tix starting in about '72, and I was in the Omni that night in '77.  You're spot on in saying that many of us didn't realize how incredibly lucky we were - it was just such a given that we would be in the top 10 that we got spoiled.

We've had some fun and talented teams more recently - the '94 run under KO, the '03 Final Four, the run of Sweet Sixteens under Buzz - but there is just no comparison to the atmosphere under Al.