2018 NFC North/NFL thread

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

So what happens when the Bears stink and get number one pick next year? Next year is expected to be good QB draft. Take Sam Darnold, if he comes out? Then you really wasted resources to get Trubisky. Trade down? Ok, you recoup assets and then some but you still need Trubisky to pan out.

Lots of other QBs projected to go in the first round next year. Could a better prospect have been found next year? Get the defense right this year in a deep draft and get the QB next year. That's what I would have done.

But as a Packers fan, I'll gladly accept the Bears being a dumpster fire. Trubisky probably won't succeed simply because the Bears are a mess. I fully believe Aaron Rodgers benefited by going to the Packers, a much better situation than the 49ers were at the time. Trubisky enters already behind the 8 ball. Fans are mostly upset about the trade so they will be less forgiving, management set up a QB controversy between a highly overpaid free agent and the #2 pick, and this draft did little to improve the Bears weaknesses.

[Jockey]

But as a Packers fan, I'll gladly accept the Bears being a dumpster fire. Trubisky probably won't succeed simply because the Bears are a mess. I fully believe Aaron Rodgers benefited by going to the Packers, a much better situation than the 49ers were at the time. Trubisky enters already behind the 8 ball. Fans are mostly upset about the trade so they will be less forgiving, management set up a QB controversy between a highly overpaid free agent and the #2 pick, and this draft did little to improve the Bears weaknesses.

You are right.

Without even one average WR, no QB is going to succeed for the Bears. Rodgers had a great situation. Dak Prescott succeeded because Dallas had All-Pros on the OL, at RB and good receivers. He would have been a dumpster fire on the Bears.

[GB Warrior]

So what happens when the Bears stink and get number one pick next year? Next year is expected to be good QB draft. Take Sam Darnold, if he comes out? Then you really wasted resources to get Trubisky. Trade down? Ok, you recoup assets and then some but you still need Trubisky to pan out.

Lots of other QBs projected to go in the first round next year. Could a better prospect have been found next year? Get the defense right this year in a deep draft and get the QB next year. That's what I would have done.

But as a Packers fan, I'll gladly accept the Bears being a dumpster fire. Trubisky probably won't succeed simply because the Bears are a mess. I fully believe Aaron Rodgers benefited by going to the Packers, a much better situation than the 49ers were at the time. Trubisky enters already behind the 8 ball. Fans are mostly upset about the trade so they will be less forgiving, management set up a QB controversy between a highly overpaid free agent and the #2 pick, and this draft did little to improve the Bears weaknesses.

This is exactly why Glennon made so much sense. The Bears completely opted out of a historically deep defensive pool. I actually thought Pace knew what he was doing until this year. This feels like a move made by someone who was desperate, not someone with the benefit of the doubt to see a rebuilding effort through.

But I too will enjoy the carnage. I wish it were  Minnesota, but I'll settle.

[MerrittsMustache]

This is exactly why Glennon made so much sense. The Bears completely opted out of a historically deep defensive pool. I actually thought Pace knew what he was doing until this year. This feels like a move made by someone who was desperate, not someone with the benefit of the doubt to see a rebuilding effort through.

But I too will enjoy the carnage. I wish it were  Minnesota, but I'll settle.

Pace had made up his mind that he needed to bring in a franchise QB this season. If he snagged a QB in the mid/late rounds, that wasn't going to cut it. Another 3-5 win season with no QB-of-the-future on the roster and Pace would be gone. Now, a 3-5 win season gets Fox canned and Pace can bring in his own guy, thus buying himself some time.

This is a problem across the NFL. There are GMs who need to win right now so they (potentially) sacrifice the long-term future by making short-sighted decisions in hopes of keeping their job. For as much of a sh*tshow as the 49ers have been recently, I commend them for giving Lynch and Shanahan 6-year deals. If those are the guys you think can turn your franchise around, give them the time and backing to try to do it.

[Jockey]

This is a problem across the NFL. There are GMs who need to win right now so they (potentially) sacrifice the long-term future by making short-sighted decisions in hopes of keeping their job. For as much of a sh*tshow as the 49ers have been recently, I commend them for giving Lynch and Shanahan 6-year deals. If those are the guys you think can turn your franchise around, give them the time and backing to try to do it.

I agree with your point..... but we all know the length of a contract has nothing to do with how long the person will be employed.

[MerrittsMustache]

I agree with your point..... but we all know the length of a contract has nothing to do with how long the person will be employed.

True, but a GM on year 3 of 6 is likely going to come at things from a different perspective and with a different sense of urgency than a GM on year 3 of 4.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Solid article on the Bears and Trubisky and some of the thought process. 

It also specifically mentions the Browns and Chiefs wanted Trubisky and could have been threats to move up to #2. 

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/02/nfl-chicago-bears-mitchell-trubisky-2017-nfl-draft

[Pakuni]

Pace had made up his mind that he needed to bring in a franchise QB this season. If he snagged a QB in the mid/late rounds, that wasn't going to cut it. Another 3-5 win season with no QB-of-the-future on the roster and Pace would be gone. Now, a 3-5 win season gets Fox canned and Pace can bring in his own guy, thus buying himself some time. 

Fox was Pace's guy. He hired him a week after landing the GM job.
But yeah, this draft was clearly a means of (possibly)  protecting his long-term future with the team while almost guaranteeing that Fox has none.
Too bad because - though I think Fox is by no means a great coach - 10 years from now I think he'll be viewed much more positively in NFL circles than Ryan Pace, a guy who's seemed in over his head since Day 1.

[GGGG]

Fox was Pace's guy. He hired him a week after landing the GM job.

Every insider report I have read or heard indicates that's not the case at all.  Fox was pushed by consultant Ernie Acorsi who knew him from his days with the Giants.  Pace pretty much had to accept him as coach - or at least was given the idea that Fox was a strong preference.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Every insider report I have read or heard indicates that's not the case at all.  Fox was pushed by consultant Ernie Acorsi who knew him from his days with the Giants.  Pace pretty much had to accept him as coach - or at least was given the idea that Fox was a strong preference.

Makes sense to me as they probably strongly wanted someone with legit NFL experience after the sh*tshow that was Marc Trestman. 

[Dish]

Solid article on the Bears and Trubisky and some of the thought process. 

It also specifically mentions the Browns and Chiefs wanted Trubisky and could have been threats to move up to #2. 

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/02/nfl-chicago-bears-mitchell-trubisky-2017-nfl-draft

If the Browns wanted Trubisky, and thought he was a franchise QB, they would have taken him at #1. If the Chiefs traded up for Mahomes, and they thought Trubisky was better, they would have traded up to #2. There's zero reason to trade up all the capital that the Chiefs did in Round 1 to get someone they were lukewarm on compared to someone they would have felt was the franchise guy.

Everyone I've talked to, every NFL insider out there has said the only offers for #2 from other teams were if Garrett was still there (which would have meant the Browns took Trubisky at #1).

Kaplan got info directly from the Bears for this story, there's no reason for that "NFL insider" not to be someone within the Bears feeding her this info.

[Pakuni]

Every insider report I have read or heard indicates that's not the case at all.  Fox was pushed by consultant Ernie Acorsi who knew him from his days with the Giants.  Pace pretty much had to accept him as coach - or at least was given the idea that Fox was a strong preference.

The same Ernie Accorsi who hired Pace?
You think he sandbagged Pace on who he was going to recommend as a coaching hire?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

If the Browns wanted Trubisky, and thought he was a franchise QB, they would have taken him at #1. If the Chiefs traded up for Mahomes, and they thought Trubisky was better, they would have traded up to #2. There's zero reason to trade up all the capital that the Chiefs did in Round 1 to get someone they were lukewarm on compared to someone they would have felt was the franchise guy.

Everyone I've talked to, every NFL insider out there has said the only offers for #2 from other teams were if Garrett was still there (which would have meant the Browns took Trubisky at #1).

Kaplan got info directly from the Bears for this story, there's no reason for that "NFL insider" not to be someone within the Bears feeding her this info.

1) There's nothing that prohibits the Browns from believing Garrett is the safest player and best choice for #1 and still having interest in moving up for Trubisky with other draft capital.  They're not mutually exclusive.

2) Regarding the Chiefs, if the Bears offer was better and they weren't willing to beat it, that is not the case.  You act as if this is not a possibility.

3) Maybe Kaplan's source was a Bears insider, maybe not.  You think so because it supports your viewpoint.  The insiders that support your viewpoint are legit while one that may not, isn't. 

[Dish]

1) There's nothing that prohibits the Browns from believing Garrett is the safest player and best choice for #1 and still having interest in moving up for Trubisky with other draft capital.  They're not mutually exclusive.

2) Regarding the Chiefs, if the Bears offer was better and they weren't willing to beat it, that is not the case.  You act as if this is not a possibility.

3) Maybe Kaplan's source was a Bears insider, maybe not.  You think so because it supports your viewpoint.  The insiders that support your viewpoint are legit while one that may not, isn't.

I'll give you this, you're willing to die on this hill, being virtually the lone voice believing this, I give you credit for this. I'm quite comfortable believing the information I'm able to gather from people who know things.

[MerrittsMustache]

1st paragraph: "The Bears weren't the only team that wanted to trade up to draft quarterback Mitchell Trubisky. Chicago was just the only team that traded all the way up to No. 2."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/05/02/teams-tried-to-trade-up-for-mitchell-trubisky-but-not-as-high-as-no-2/

Makes sense to me as they probably strongly wanted someone with legit NFL experience after the sh*tshow that was Marc Trestman. 

I've said this several times but John Fox was the type of coach that the Bears needed to hire after Lovie - a respected, NFL veteran coach who could control the locker room. Emery hired the opposite. At that point in time, they had talent but the window was closing. Don't get me wrong, they weren't going to win a SB but the 2013 Bears were a playoff-caliber team who gave up on their inept coach. The Bears had a "win and you're in game" in Week 16 and lost by 43 points!

[GGGG]

The same Ernie Accorsi who hired Pace?
You think he sandbagged Pace on who he was going to recommend as a coaching hire?

No. I think he sold both to the Bears owners. Pace knew he wasn't going to get the chance to hire his guy.

[Pakuni]

No. I think he sold both to the Bears owners. Pace knew he wasn't going to get the chance to hire his guy.

Call me skeptical, but why would Pace go to a situation where he'd have no say in arguably (probably) the most important decision a GM makes?
Keep in mind, before taking the Bears job, Pace turned down the Jets. It's not as if at 37 years old he likely believed he'd have one and only one shot at a GM post. If that were true, he wouldn't have turned down the Jets.

[GGGG]

Call me skeptical, but why would Pace go to a situation where he'd have no say in arguably (probably) the most important decision a GM makes?
Keep in mind, before taking the Bears job, Pace turned down the Jets. It's not as if at 37 years old he likely believed he'd have one and only one shot at a GM post. If that were true, he wouldn't have turned down the Jets.

I'm not saying he was absolutely against the idea.  I'm saying that the coach was basically selected for him.

And I'm not the one saying this.  I have heard this multiple times.  Dish could probably comment on this if he wanted to.

[Dish]

I'm not saying he was absolutely against the idea.  I'm saying that the coach was basically selected for him.

And I'm not the one saying this.  I have heard this multiple times.  Dish could probably comment on this if he wanted to.

My understanding falls in line with what Sultan said. The McCaskey family (specifically Virginia) came away feeling embarrassed with how the Emery/Trestman fiasco went down. They engaged Accorsi, and (my understanding) is Accorsi told them if the right coach became available before the right GM did, make sure you get the coach. Pace was obviously hired first, and before Fox was fired. I can't and won't say this as fact, but I certainly believe there was a conversation between Accorsi, Phillips, George, and Pace saying that ownership preferred an experienced coach, and that eventually led them to Fox. Pakuni is right, Pace turned down multiple different opportunities (I remember the Panthers being one) for interviews before the Bears job. Reality of it is that it is so Bears how the process played out, not having one firm decision maker with full authority.

I do not believe Fox survives into 2018, but I believe Pace does (and gets autonomy on hiring his own guy this time).

[#UnleashSean]

If he becomes a decent quarterback, those picks were worth it.

Why, he was still going to be there one pick after. haha

[GGGG]

Why, he was still going to be there one pick after. haha

Most likely.  However if you believe someone is a franchise quarterback, it is worth the price not to risk it.  The bigger problem is that he may not be a franchise quarterback.

[jesmu84]

I'll give you this, you're willing to die on this hill, being virtually the lone voice believing this, I give you credit for this. I'm quite comfortable believing the information I'm able to gather from people who know things.

So you think Peter King was either lied to or made up the information about at least one other team discussing moving up to #2 with SF?

[Dish]

So you think Peter King was either lied to or made up the information about at least one other team discussing moving up to #2 with SF?

Every single draft pick is for sale and almost every single pick is discussed in a trade, if nothing else for a team to gauge future trades and to try to decipher who someone is thinking of taking. Lynch was publicly selling his #2 pick for weeks, of course he got phone calls. Pace called him a week before the draft with his offer. Niners had an eternity to sell higher than the Bears offer. They realized Cleveland was bluffing, and to Cleveland's credit, they played Schefter perfectly and used him as a pawn. Teams will do other teams a solid in the media post draft to help make deals like the Trubisky side look good for both sides.

[jesmu84]

Every single draft pick is for sale and almost every single pick is discussed in a trade, if nothing else for a team to gauge future trades and to try to decipher who someone is thinking of taking. Lynch was publicly selling his #2 pick for weeks, of course he got phone calls. Pace called him a week before the draft with his offer. Niners had an eternity to sell higher than the Bears offer. They realized Cleveland was bluffing, and to Cleveland's credit, they played Schefter perfectly and used him as a pawn. Teams will do other teams a solid in the media post draft to help make deals like the Trubisky side look good for both sides.

So Lynch was lying to help the bears look better?

[GGGG]

So Lynch was lying to help the bears look better?

Lynch could be lying so that other teams will want to deal with the Niners in the future without feeling they are being fleeced.