This is progress

[Lennys Tap]

Marquette:

WE CAN'T HAVE ANOTHER JAE!!! WHAT A DISASTER!

Marquette Social Media:

LET'S WISH BOSTON CELTIC JAE CROWDER A HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! YES THAT JAE CROWDER, HE PLAYED FOR US AND NOW HE'S IN THE NBA!  NBA! NBA! JAE! JAE! #mubb

Perfect! All this "I love Jae, I just don't what his kind at Marquette" stuff is nauseating.

[Goose]

Lens and Lenny

+1

You guys are spot on!!

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Perfect! All this "I love Jae, I just don't what his kind at Marquette" stuff is nauseating.

+1

Fact - both HE and Jae used us for their gain and accepting them into the school was beneficial for Marquette.  The end result was two kids we should all remain proud of today.  Nothing wrong with that.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

+1

Fact - both HE and Jae used us for their gain and accepting them into the school was beneficial for Marquette.  The end result was two kids we should all remain proud of today.  Nothing wrong with that.

Perfect! All this "I love Jae, I just don't what his kind at Marquette" stuff is nauseating.

So if Jae hadn't made the NBA or Europe, and ended up on the street with no degree and no job skills would you still be comfortable?

Would you also be comfortable if our APR scores dropped enough that we ended up suspended?

[The Lens]

So if Jae hadn't made the NBA or Europe, and ended up on the street with no degree and no job skills would you still be comfortable?

Would you also be comfortable if our APR scores dropped enough that we ended up suspended?

When you bring in the National Juco POY, he's going to have to screw up pretty bad to be homeless and out on the streets.  Furthermore, I would hope / expect that MU would allow him to pursue his degree on our dime for as long as it takes him.  That's what a program that spends Top 5 money should do.  The opportunity for free education shouldn't end when eligibility is up.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

So if Jae hadn't made the NBA or Europe, and ended up on the street with no degree and no job skills would you still be comfortable?

Would you also be comfortable if our APR scores dropped enough that we ended up suspended?

Actually I would rather fix the problem.  1. All kids meet min NCAA academic standards to play (already do this), 2. Give these kids scholarships that guarantee the ability to finish their degree even if they drop the last semester to pursue the draft or need more time to finish (new)

Second I expect MU to meet the APR standards - so do that and don't take all players that cant finish (pretty sure we already do that)

You want to care for the kids - give them a safety net while shooting for their dream job - dont stick your head in the sand and choose HE over Jae.

[jsglow]

Glow-

You are talking about the general student population.  The basketball team falls into a different bucket.

Historically, MU has taken basketball players that would not be admitted as general students.  Not all but some.  Wade is probably the best example.  An ACT of 17 or 18 is typically not accepted.  But Wade could play basketball so he got admitted.  Wade even faired well in the classroom.  But I don't see how Wade would be admitted if he wasn't a basketball player.

If you have information of MU accepting academic risks that are not athletes, I'd love to hear some stats.  Until then, I view it as apples and oranges.

I have no problem with recruiting great basketball players that are also great students.  Markus Howard hits high marks in both regards.  But I'm also not naive about men's basketball players getting a little leeway, at least in the past.

Now I have a question for you.  Why was Jae Crowder admitted in the first place?  To admit Crowder and then place restrictions based on Crowder's inability to graduate is the very definition of hypocrisy!  Please enlighten me if you know more.

I'll try to answer your question this way.  Yes, it is true that basketball players are held to a different entrance standard than the typical 'general population' kid.  But that's not by some edict.  There's no rule that I'm aware of that says a kid with a 20 ACT can't be admitted to the general population.  But I acknowledge that typically doesn't happen.  Truth be told, I believe but am not certain, that MU Athletic scholarship individuals (all sports) graduate at a HIGHER rate than 'general population' kids. 

Here's another example.  Every year that I can remember the highest entrance threshold is into Nursing.  Highest class rank, highest HS GPA, highest ACT, etc.  So what that the 'general population' threshold in Arts & Sciences is lower and that kids that can't get into Nursing, Engineering or Business can still get a MU Degree?

Lastly, I'm pretty confident that the Jae issue hadn't come up before, at least any time recently.  Marquette simply hadn't thought about it previously.  And once it happened, the decision was ultimately made that we wouldn't do that again and the line was drawn where it seemingly is today.  (I'm not privy to everything.  I never sat in a meeting where this topic was discussed directly.)

And any of ya'll that graduated around 1990 ish.  Go back and look at those stats sometime.  Marquette was simply trying to stay solvent.  Half of you would have been at Parkside or Oshkosh today.  You know who you are.   

[jsglow]

+1

Fact - both HE and Jae used us for their gain and accepting them into the school was beneficial for Marquette.  The end result was two kids we should all remain proud of today.  Nothing wrong with that.

Absolutely.  None of this is or should be about the merits of either person.

[GGGG]

I think the talent Wojo has here right now spans the spectrum from elite (Markus) to solid (Sam, Katin, Rowsey) to ? (Haanif, Sacar, Matt).

Next year's guys I don't know enough about to venture a guess.

But to answer your question - not mid major guys nor guys (with the exception of Markus) who could get 10+ minutes a game at the "real" Duke.

We'll never see consistent talent at MU like we did in the late 60s through the 70s - too much competition. But Buzz proved we could get at least fairly close. Hope we can recreate that success - jury's still out.

Yes the jury is still out.  Stop assuming good basketball players and a Duke-lite are mutually exclusive.

[skianth16]

MU Eagle

I would love to have UW's athletic department and academic reputation at MU. Long way to go on both fronts, just being honest.

Having attended both universities (please don't hate me), I have to agree with this. While MU is well above average and considered reputable for academics and athletics, we just don't quite compare to what UW brings to the table. Size and resources play a role for sure, but there are other smaller schools that can compete for both students and athletes at the highest level.

I would love to see some of the investments at MU begin to pay dividends in the coming years in terms of academic achievement, and I think there's a real possibility for that. But we do still have a ways to go to get to a UW-East-esque status. In terms of the athletics program, I think we've seen some great strides from some of the lesser known sports - men's lacrosse, women's track come to mind - but getting some sustained consistency in the men's basketball program would be huge for us. I get that we're viewed as a stepping stone kind of school, and I don't know if that will ever change, but keeping a successful coach for more than a few years would really help build the kind of program we all want year in and year out.

[Lennys Tap]

Yes the jury is still out.  Stop assuming good basketball players and a Duke-lite are mutually exclusive.

Never assumed that. If Duke Lite and good basketball players are the goal I think we can even say "Mission Accomplished". If Duke North and great players are the goal there's a long, long way to go - and I'm not convinced that model is realistic.

[Goose]

skianth16

As much I want to see MU ball be a national powerhouse, I would be equally as proud to see them an academic powerhouse. My gripe has been that I believe both fall way too short of the finish line. Also, I have said a million times, but if one Jae can make a difference on the court, very possibly that difference is felt by the entire university. IMO the basketball program should be a tool used to create academic excellence.

If MU has an academic powerhouse I would NEVER, EVER bitch about the basketball program.

[MUBigDance]

This thread has gone in an interesting direction.
Practically speaking Marquette like many schools (and more-so) offers a degree in basketball to its recruits.

They also offer degrees in other things if the Athletes are so inclined...players come here to be an engineer or with eligibility get a Masters...that's great.

But make no mistake, its big business as Marquette and if players come here with eyes wide open and see that...and use it to make a way to Pro basketball...so be it.

Having said that there is such a thing as character and rules and following the rules. We should expect that from players even if their degree is basketball.

From all I know about Jae...seen on the court and in the media...my son went to MU at same time and gives good reports of interaction.... Jae has good character...he came here for a degree in basketball. He graduated with highest honors (if you know what I mean).

I wonder how long the pretense can last that there isn't basketball degrees but just science and philosophy and social work and biology and math...

[MUBigDance]

...furthermore on Jae Crowder.

I don't know him personally but I read about how he has been an asset to Celtic basketball...he played a key role in "recruiting" Durant for the Celtics (obviously didn't go that way). He and Stevens and Tom Brady put on a full court press.

If I were an NBA VP, I would be like "Man I want that guy on my team!"

I think Jae got a Masters.

[Lennys Tap]

Bravo, Big Dance!

[brewcity77]

Brew

You never shared any PM info, just thought it was funny and ironic that you at one point felt I was worth PMing for scoop and now tired of the type of fan I am. Trust me, I have zero problem with you. Just thought it was quite amusing on things turn over time.

I still think you're worth talking to and don't want to drive you off, but I don't think fandom is a measuring contest. I'm not a fan of that method of proving oneself. We disagree on some stuff, agree on probably more than we realize, and I think you're an important part of the board. I don't think your commitment to Marquette is to be questioned, but many others are also committed.

[Goose]

brew


All good and I enjoy 95% of your posts. Trust me, my level of fan is not higher than anyone else on here. If I feel I am being bashed I throw out my length of time as a fan card. Truthfully, who cares?

[g0lden3agle]

brew


All good and I enjoy 95% of your posts. Trust me, my level of fan is not higher than anyone else on here. If I feel I am being bashed I throw out my length of time as a fan card. Truthfully, who cares?

Given that a majority of Brew's posts are from deep his eQP% (effective Quality Post Percentage) is well over 100%.  Impressive.

[jsglow]

This thread has gone in an interesting direction.
Practically speaking Marquette like many schools (and more-so) offers a degree in basketball to its recruits.

They also offer degrees in other things if the Athletes are so inclined...players come here to be an engineer or with eligibility get a Masters...that's great.

But make no mistake, its big business as Marquette and if players come here with eyes wide open and see that...and use it to make a way to Pro basketball...so be it.

Having said that there is such a thing as character and rules and following the rules. We should expect that from players even if their degree is basketball.

From all I know about Jae...seen on the court and in the media...my son went to MU at same time and gives good reports of interaction.... Jae has good character...he came here for a degree in basketball. He graduated with highest honors (if you know what I mean).

I wonder how long the pretense can last that there isn't basketball degrees but just science and philosophy and social work and biology and math...

Jae's a great guy from an outstanding family.  Let's add one thing to the mix.  His issue was the fact that he went to an unaccredited school his Frosh year.  I got to spend some considerable time with Jae's granddad down in Louisville.  Wonderful guy.

[muguru]

So a basketball player or two doesnt graduate..seriously how does that reflect on MU?  There's athletes at every school dont graduate. Does that reflect poorly on them? Hell no. You know why? Because outside of MU fans and Badger fans who look to jump on anything negative MU..who pays attention to that sort of thing anyway? No one.
When announcers are doing an NBA game that involves Jae and they mention that he went to Marquette they don't then mention that he never graduated. No one cares..seriously they dont. And if MU is so arrogant, stuck up and snobish that they think they "should be better than everyone else that way" then theres a problem. Plain and simple.

[Herman Cain]

This thread has gone in an interesting direction.
Practically speaking Marquette like many schools (and more-so) offers a degree in basketball to its recruits.

They also offer degrees in other things if the Athletes are so inclined...players come here to be an engineer or with eligibility get a Masters...that's great.

But make no mistake, its big business as Marquette and if players come here with eyes wide open and see that...and use it to make a way to Pro basketball...so be it.

Having said that there is such a thing as character and rules and following the rules. We should expect that from players even if their degree is basketball.

From all I know about Jae...seen on the court and in the media...my son went to MU at same time and gives good reports of interaction.... Jae has good character...he came here for a degree in basketball. He graduated with highest honors (if you know what I mean).

I wonder how long the pretense can last that there isn't basketball degrees but just science and philosophy and social work and biology and math...

We actually have a pretty good academic support program. The basketball kids who come to MU stay for four years and graduate  end up being pretty good people. One of the things I liked most about Buzz was he really had that old school philosophy of looking at the whole person. I think he took great pride when  a kid like Junior Cadougan was able to overcome a lot in life and graduate successfully with a worthwhile degree.

My general experience over the years is that the kids who value the education are usually pretty good players over a period of time.

[muwarrior69]

This thread has gone in an interesting direction.
Practically speaking Marquette like many schools (and more-so) offers a degree in basketball to its recruits.

They also offer degrees in other things if the Athletes are so inclined...players come here to be an engineer or with eligibility get a Masters...that's great.

But make no mistake, its big business as Marquette and if players come here with eyes wide open and see that...and use it to make a way to Pro basketball...so be it.

Having said that there is such a thing as character and rules and following the rules. We should expect that from players even if their degree is basketball.

From all I know about Jae...seen on the court and in the media...my son went to MU at same time and gives good reports of interaction.... Jae has good character...he came here for a degree in basketball. He graduated with highest honors (if you know what I mean).

I wonder how long the pretense can last that there isn't basketball degrees but just science and philosophy and social work and biology and math...

Ulice Payne and Al Jr. have done pretty well outside of basketball. I am sure there are others that just don't come to mind.

[MU82]

Little choice but try and be positive. This is not the program I would like to see, but hoping Wojo delivers the goods.

The second sentence here doesn't sound as if you're trying very hard to be positive. Nor do I know what you mean by it. Care to expound, please?

[GGGG]

So a basketball player or two doesnt graduate..seriously how does that reflect on MU?  There's athletes at every school dont graduate. Does that reflect poorly on them? Hell no. You know why? Because outside of MU fans and Badger fans who look to jump on anything negative MU..who pays attention to that sort of thing anyway? No one.
When announcers are doing an NBA game that involves Jae and they mention that he went to Marquette they don't then mention that he never graduated. No one cares..seriously they dont. And if MU is so arrogant, stuck up and snobish that they think they "should be better than everyone else that way" then theres a problem. Plain and simple.

I don't think it is "snobbish" to only admit players that have a chance to graduate?  Good lord.

Marquette can embrace Jae and what he did for MU and what he is doing now in the NBA, but also say "it would be difficult to admit someone with that academic background in the future."  That isn't arrogant, snobbish or even hypocritical. 

[warriorchick]

I don't think it is "snobbish" to only admit players that have a chance to graduate?  Good lord.

Marquette can embrace Jae and what he did for MU and what he is doing now in the NBA, but also say "it would be difficult to admit someone with that academic background in the future."  That isn't arrogant, snobbish or even hypocritical.

Exactly. Anything less and a university is simply exploiting the talent of the players.