The Dark One Returneth: Wojo Report Card - A Failure

[MU82]

Do we really know who was available? I doubt it. Given the money we throw at this game I would expect we had more choices than were reported. I do not profess to be and expert on basketball coach selection. I, however, do know what it takes to win and it does not include accepting mediocrity, it does not include excuses or scapegoats. It requires passion, total commitment and learning from failure and never, never giving up. This team has given up.

I think if there are leaders for a few thousand dollars  that can lead young men into a battlefield risking their life's we surely can find someone with basketball skills that can lead young men on a basketball court. Find a real leader that knows something about the game and you have a winner. For a few million it should not be too hard. Anyone can learn to teach BB but only leaders can teach a team to win.

Wow.

[brandx]

Brand x

Your post made my weekend. I found that to be very, very funny. Plus, it made have more respect for MikeDeannes big time. He just became my kind of egomaniac.

Egomaniacs are definitely in vogue right now.

[GoldenDieners32]

Not a failure yet. It won't be. Once we make the tourney this year everyone will be saying "sign him another 5!!"

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Not a failure yet. It won't be. Once we make the tourney this year everyone will be saying "sign him another 5!!"

You sound like how the MU top brass thinks.

[brewcity77]

Not a failure yet. It won't be. Once we make the tourney this year everyone will be saying "sign him another 5!!"

I won't be. If we make the tourney this year, I do think it buys some goodwill, but considering the weak bubble and the concerning past three weeks, I want to see more than just a trip to Dayton. Finish 10-8 and get in convincingly, win a game or two, then go back next year while landing Joey Hauser, I'll be on board with the extension talk. But if we get in at 9-9 or 8-10 because everyone else lost, while I'll happily take the bid as progress, it won't be the definitive "we're back, baby" statement I think we all felt when we knocked off Villanova.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

I won't be. If we make the tourney this year, I do think it buys some goodwill, but considering the weak bubble and the concerning past three weeks, I want to see more than just a trip to Dayton. Finish 10-8 and get in convincingly, win a game or two, then go back next year while landing Joey Hauser, I'll be on board with the extension talk. But if we get in at 9-9 or 8-10 because everyone else lost, while I'll happily take the bid as progress, it won't be the definitive "we're back, baby" statement I think we all felt when we knocked off Villanova.

Extension?

Why would you extend someone who's already here until 2021-2022?

Secondly, why would you want to consider extending a coach who's proven nothing?

[keefe]

Egomaniacs are definitely in vogue right now.

Biggest one out there is wondering why all the pledges dried up!

[muguru]

I won't be. If we make the tourney this year, I do think it buys some goodwill, but considering the weak bubble and the concerning past three weeks, I want to see more than just a trip to Dayton. Finish 10-8 and get in convincingly, win a game or two, then go back next year while landing Joey Hauser, I'll be on board with the extension talk. But if we get in at 9-9 or 8-10 because everyone else lost, while I'll happily take the bid as progress, it won't be the definitive "we're back, baby" statement I think we all felt when we knocked off Villanova.

+1000 Exactly how I feel, and have felt. If they just squeak into the tourney because there really aren't any other teams to take, that shows me nothing. After the Nova win, they should have cruised into it, and in fact, at this point we should be discussing their seed and how high it could go rather then wondering if they will even get in.

brew, I'm impressed, you sure have done a 180 on how you felt about Wojo and the state of the program just a week or two ago. I'd love to have your optimistic outlook on things as well, but I have just never "felt it" with Wojo. I wish I could feel differently.

[ATWizJr]

Biggest one out there is wondering why all the pledges dried up!

Biggest two.

[ATWizJr]

We all got as much of a shot at fookin' Kate Upton as Steve has in coachin' Duke, ai na?

There's always room for a good assistant.

[brewcity77]

brew, I'm impressed, you sure have done a 180 on how you felt about Wojo and the state of the program just a week or two ago. I'd love to have your optimistic outlook on things as well, but I have just never "felt it" with Wojo. I wish I could feel differently.

I still see the path and still see what Wojo wants to do, but the past 5 games have been concerning. My preseason expectations haven't changed. This season we should make at least the NIT to show clear progress, with the NCAA bid being the desired goal. We had a clear path to a bid and now are sliding from that.

In 2010 and 2011, we had two stretches (one each season) where we lost 5 of 7 games and had serious questions about if we'd make the tournament. In 2012 we lost 4 of 6 and had similar concerns, though were never in quite as much danger as this year. In 2014, we lost our last 4 straight and crashed out. Buzz is remembered fondly because he won in March, but I think many forget how real the Team Bubble Watch thing was and that most years under him, we had major downturns that had the fanbase concerned and wondering if we were on the right path.

My hope is that in 5 years, we'll look back at 2017 as Wojo's first of 6 straight bids and laugh about how people were talking about firing him. But it's on him to prove that he deserves that time and that he can get this team over the hump, especially as it has morphed more and more into what he wants a Wojo team to look like.

[GoldenDieners32]

I won't be. If we make the tourney this year, I do think it buys some goodwill, but considering the weak bubble and the concerning past three weeks, I want to see more than just a trip to Dayton. Finish 10-8 and get in convincingly, win a game or two, then go back next year while landing Joey Hauser, I'll be on board with the extension talk. But if we get in at 9-9 or 8-10 because everyone else lost, while I'll happily take the bid as progress, it won't be the definitive "we're back, baby" statement I think we all felt when we knocked off Villanova.

Everyone here just wants to make the tourney, but i agree with you

[bilsu]

I see the NIT bid as part of the building process. I really have trouble with the posters that say that MU should turn down NIT or I will not watch them if they are the NIT. These people are not true fans. I will watch MU anytime they play and have done so for over 50 years. I agree the goal should be the NCAA  tournament. Actually, I believe MU should always be playing in at least the 2nd round (32 teams).  Last year Creighton made the NIT and won some games. That is valuable experience for them and will be for us if we can do that this year.

As far as Wojo I hated him as a player and was not happy when he was hired. I like him more now than I did the day he was hired. I did not agree with MU extending his contract at the time they did it, but I believe MU should honor the contract. MU would just replace him with another unproven coach, so you are really replacing a coach that is on a slow improving path with someone that has a 50% chance of being worse.

[brewcity77]

I see the NIT bid as part of the building process. I really have trouble with the posters that say that MU should turn down NIT or I will not watch them if they are the NIT. These people are not true fans. I will watch MU anytime they play and have done so for over 50 years. I agree the goal should be the NCAA  tournament. Actually, I believe MU should always be playing in at least the 2nd round (32 teams).  Last year Creighton made the NIT and won some games. That is valuable experience for them and will be for us if we can do that this year.

As far as Wojo I hated him as a player and was not happy when he was hired. I like him more now than I did the day he was hired. I did not agree with MU extending his contract at the time they did it, but I believe MU should honor the contract. MU would just replace him with another unproven coach, so you are really replacing a coach that is on a slow improving path with someone that has a 50% chance of being worse.

I wasn't against Wojo at the start, but otherwise agree completely with this. NIT wouldn't be the progress we want, but it'd be progress over last year. And my hope is always to watch more Marquette basketball, be in in the NCAA, NIT, or Vegas 4/8/16. I also don't see the point of going with another unproven coach. Getting rid of Wojo and replacing him with a young guy like Kevin Keatts, a retread like Steve Lavin, or an assistant like Dwayne Stephens would all be disappointing to me because I don't think any would give reason to actually think they're better. Unless it's a clear, home run hire (don't even know who that would be) I say stick it out and hope that Wojo's vision works out in the next 2-1/2 seasons.

[muguru]

I'll get crushed for saying this but oh well..i'd LOVE to see TC come back if he were let go at IU. He'd bring the program back.

[GoldenDieners32]

I'll get crushed for saying this but oh well..i'd LOVE to see TC come back if he were let go at IU. He'd bring the program back.

I didn't read the whole sentence at first and I thought you meant traci carter lol

[GGGG]

They are not cliches if you live by them and show commitment by example. They also apply to life in general. Believe what you want and mock what you do not understand. It is OK because as you mock others someone will be winning but it will not be you.

OK dude.

If you want to live your life by cliches that any two-bit motivational speaker can spew out as long as the check doesn't bounce, that's fine by me.  But really that's all they are.

[Lennys Tap]

In 2010 and 2011, we had two stretches (one each season) where we lost 5 of 7 games and had serious questions about if we'd make the tournament. In 2012 we lost 4 of 6 and had similar concerns, though were never in quite as much danger as this year. In 2014, we lost our last 4 straight and crashed out. Buzz is remembered fondly because he won in March, but I think many forget how real the Team Bubble Watch thing was and that most years under him, we had major downturns that had the fanbase concerned and wondering if we were on the right path.

Cherry picking to create a false impression. The fans who were "concerned and wondering if we were on the right path" in Buzz's first 5 years were idiotic. He won 60 of 90 Big East games, went to 5 straight NCAAs with a 6 or higher seed 4 times, won 8 tournament games, a conference title and advanced to the S16 twice and the Elite 8 once. Some of the same idiots may be resurfacing now, but comparing the two eras is absurd. And when you say that in 2012, when we finished 27-8, 14-4 with a #3 seed we were never in "quite as much danger as this year" (at 15-10, 6-7) it's the understatement to end all understatements. I hope you're right and that Wojo rights the ship - and it's all seashells and balloons from here on out. But while I'm wishing and hoping I won't confuse it with reality.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Cherry picking to create a false impression. The fans who were "concerned and wondering if we were on the right path" in Buzz's first 5 years were idiotic. He won 60 of 90 Big East games, went to 5 straight NCAAs with a 6 or higher seed 4 times, won 8 tournament games, a conference title and advanced to the S16 twice and the Elite 8 once. Some of the same idiots may be resurfacing now, but comparing the two eras is absurd. And when you say that in 2012, when we finished 27-8, 14-4 with a #3 seed we were never in "quite as much danger as this year" (at 15-10, 6-7) it's the understatement to end all understatements. I hope you're right and that Wojo rights the ship - and it's all seashells and balloons from here on out. But while I'm wishing and hoping I won't confuse it with reality.

Half of Buzz's seasons, MU was a legit bubble team.  09-10, 10-11, and 13-14 were all teams that were back end tourney teams, or missed all together (Buzz's last year).  Marquette ended up as a 6 seed in 2011, but that team lost every game of substance in the non-con, and started BE play 6-7 (sound familiar?).  That squad eneded up 9-9 in the BE, but got a 6 seed because it was the greatest conference ever assembled. I can guarantee you blow hards around here though MU was dead in the water at 6-7. 

[GGGG]

Cherry picking to create a false impression. The fans who were "concerned and wondering if we were on the right path" in Buzz's first 5 years were idiotic. He won 60 of 90 Big East games, went to 5 straight NCAAs with a 6 or higher seed 4 times, won 8 tournament games, a conference title and advanced to the S16 twice and the Elite 8 once. Some of the same idiots may be resurfacing now, but comparing the two eras is absurd. And when you say that in 2012, when we finished 27-8, 14-4 with a #3 seed we were never in "quite as much danger as this year" (at 15-10, 6-7) it's the understatement to end all understatements. I hope you're right and that Wojo rights the ship - and it's all seashells and balloons from here on out. But while I'm wishing and hoping I won't confuse it with reality.

In February 2011 we lost a home game to St. John's in late February.  There were plenty of questions raised at that time about how good a coach Buzz was and if he could coach defense.  If Scoop had a better search function, I could dig up plenty of posts that would say that.

We went on to make the NCAA tournament and the S16 after upsetting Syracuse in the Round of 32.

[goldeneagle91114]

+1000 Exactly how I feel, and have felt. If they just squeak into the tourney because there really aren't any other teams to take, that shows me nothing. After the Nova win, they should have cruised into it, and in fact, at this point we should be discussing their seed and how high it could go rather then wondering if they will even get in.

brew, I'm impressed, you sure have done a 180 on how you felt about Wojo and the state of the program just a week or two ago. I'd love to have your optimistic outlook on things as well, but I have just never "felt it" with Wojo. I wish I could feel differently.

guru, whats your honest to god, gut feeling? Did this team under-peform the past 3 weeks, or did they just get lucky as h3ll against creighton and Nova?

I think its the latter, and the nova game exposed us.

[willie warrior]

Extension?

Why would you extend someone who's already here until 2021-2022?

Secondly, why would you want to consider extending a coach who's proven nothing?

Because that is how mu rolls, baby!

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Half of Buzz's seasons, MU was a legit bubble team.  09-10, 10-11, and 13-14 were all teams that were back end tourney teams, or missed all together (Buzz's last year).  Marquette ended up as a 6 seed in 2011, but that team lost every game of substance in the non-con, and started BE play 6-7 (sound familiar?).  That squad eneded up 9-9 in the BE, but got a 6 seed because it was the greatest conference ever assembled. I can guarantee you blow hards around here though MU was dead in the water at 6-7.

I know what you are saying, but we are in a whole new territory right now. Here are the Ken Poms for buzz starting with 08/09..19, 24, 26, 18, 26, 68

These were all really good teams regardless of the press from Lunardi - conversely if you feel Lunardi chatter is proper, it shows how far we have to go....this is our best year and we are at 42 KenPom....hopefully we win down the stretch to turn that around.

[GGGG]

I know what you are saying, but we are in a whole new territory right now. Here are the Ken Poms for buzz starting with 08/09..19, 24, 26, 18, 26, 68

These were all really good teams regardless of the press from Lunardi - conversely if you feel Lunardi chatter is proper, it shows how far we have to go....this is our best year and we are at 42 KenPom....hopefully we win down the stretch to turn that around.

But weren't those the final rankings after the tournament?  Or was it pre-tournament?

I would like to know what our ranking was at around this time in February 2011. 

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I know what you are saying, but we are in a whole new territory right now. Here are the Ken Poms for buzz starting with 08/09..19, 24, 26, 18, 26, 68

These were all really good teams regardless of the press from Lunardi - conversely if you feel Lunardi chatter is proper, it shows how far we have to go....this is our best year and we are at 42 KenPom....hopefully we win down the stretch to turn that around.

I don't disagree that these teams are different than Buzz's squads. As tough as the BE is this year, the BE conference in Buzz's first 5 years wasn't even fair.  Those teams were better. 

We were also right around 30 in Kenpom a week ago.