Need some honest thoughts here

[Goose]

Keefe

I wish everyone on here knew MU ball history and had expectations for the future as Lenny does. He's in my Scoop HOF.

[brewcity77]

Guy asks for reasons for optimism. People offer reasons for optimism. Others attack those people and completely ignore the topic at hand. Yup...typical Scoop after a loss.

[HoopsterBC]

I will put my 2 cents into this conversation which probably will not make some people to happy but realize the truth,

1)  The 2 freshman,  Howard being 17 has done a great job considering he still should be in high school.  He probably could have used the extra year in school.  Great
     shooter, but not quick enough yet to guard most Big East points.  But pressure on him and he has trouble.  Secondly, being small he has to realize what to do when
     he gets past his man.  Against Butler, got the shot blocked.  Will learn that the next few years, but will will take time.  Defense not quick enough.  Hauser should be
     7th or 8th man on most teams,  tweener, not a 4, not big enough, as a 3 not quick enough.  Complimentary player,  good player on a good team, on MU, does not
     bring enough to the table right now, future,  really not sure.  Might be over recruited, even by his brother.  Talking about his brother, he does not have elite   
    athleticism  either.  Will have to play the 3, same position as Sam.

2)  Cheatham -  this is a problem this year and next.  Wojo must see more about him then what fans see.  A very average athlete, can not jump, and is so dominant
     with his left hand, not hard to defend.  Zero mid range game, not strong enough defend a Peak or quick enough to guard, Pryor.   Do the coaches work with him
     at all?  It sure does not seem it or he can not grasp using his right hand??

3)  JJJ, no basketball IQ, we have talked about him to much.  Glad to see him go.  Elite athlete that does not bring it.

4)  Luke, an above average center,  that is not a leader, very quiet.  Perfect example, yesterday, if he was strong enough, MU should have been at least even the first
     8 minutes but he missed 3 bunnies.  Not strong enough.  Wojo coaching?  Why have they not given his game more verity on the offensive end?  Always sets up
    back to the basket.  After 3 1/2 years seriously?  Govan can do both.  An issue

5)  Keep recruiting grad transfers and they have one agenda.  Need just to recruit 4 year players, but that is so hard as he has 5 new players next year and 2 more
     to use.  The classes are not spaced.  If he signs 1 more player, it will affect the other 11,  freshman fine, grad student.  Not sure.

6)  In a nutshell, the Villy win brought great hope, but Villy lost that game more than MU won that game.  Every team MU goes up against is more physical and
     talented, next year they might be able to compete on the boards.  Rebuild - another 2 but more likely 3 years to go.  Sad to say.

[DUNKS45]

I still believe we will turn this season around, I'd like to see us press right from the start of the game and force our opponents to adapt to our up tempo. I also like the height we have coming in and hopefully we can play  better D and rebound on the offensive end. I will never give up on my team.

[GGGG]

Keefe

I wish everyone on here knew MU ball history and had expectations for the future as Lenny does. He's in my Scoop HOF.

Oh please.  Everyone wants to have high expectations.  People simply differ if we are on that path.

[Goose]

Vinnie

I strongly disagree on shared expectations. Respect your opinion but I hear a ton different expectations on here.

[muguru]

Oh please.  Everyone wants to have high expectations.  People simply differ if we are on that path.

I don't necessarily agree Vinnie...I guess it depends on what one considers high expectations..for me, it's making this program Elite, one of the tops in the country year after year, kind of like Gonzaga only better. Yearly tourney appearances, Elite 8's, Final fours and Ulitmately national championships. MU can be that program. But every time I say that people tell me MU can't be elite. I say BS.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

I have a somewhat different take.

Our team is like a hot shot baseball pitcher just called up from the minors. He has the tools and his first couple of starts, he throws shut-outs and two- hitters (the baseball equivalent of the Villanova and Creighton games).

Inevitably, someone figures out the book on the pitcher. He goes through the league and managers write the book on him. His fastball still blazes at 100 miles per hour, but hitters learn to wait on the change-up or the curve ball and blast him into the second deck. The pitcher gets frustrated and his control falters until he too learns the book in major league hitters. Maybe he picks up a slider or even a knuckleball, but he learns to pitch in the majors and becomes a star.

First time through the league for us, we were writing the book on ourselves. We were beating people from outside. We shot well and we won. After the Villanova game, coaches adapted their defenses to stop where we were going to beat them. And it has worked. And it will until our guys adjust and learn to play with what we're given. In our case, they'll give Fishy his 12 points because they know aint going to beat 'em. Reinhardt, Rousey and Howard will!

We'll learn. With what's coming in, we'll be fine -- I hope!

Agree with this and there is no fear of Fischer, has one move, cant dunk, doesnt really rebound, is not hard to guard and can not make free throws.  Pick ur poison and Fischer scares no one. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Vinnie

I strongly disagree on shared expectations. Respect your opinion but I hear a ton different expectations on here.

Expectations for the program I think are universal across the fanbase. In the tournament every year and making long runs every couple of years building towards another national championship.

The difference comes on expectations for individual seasons. Some apply their program expectations to every season regardless of the roster. Others look at the roster and make adjustments based on that. Neither is wrong, just different kinds of fans. Fortunately, Wojo doesn't adjust based on the roster. He expects us to win every year.

[brewcity77]

Oh please.  Everyone wants to have high expectations.  People simply differ if we are on that path.

+1

I want Marquette to be an elite program. I want us to be routinely ranked, in the tournament, and with a legitimate chance to be a Final Four and National Title contender at least every few years. I'm okay with where we were under Crean and Buzz, and not happy with where we are now.

That said, I also realize that programs don't get there overnight. Buzz left a trainwreck. This was never a 2-year job, unless you had John Calipari as Buzz's replacement. It was always going to take 3-5 years to become nationally relevant again. That's just the reality of the situation. Many refuse to accept that reality.

I'm not sure we're on the right path, but I am positive that it's too soon to say decisively that we aren't.

[muwarrior69]

The reason this season is disappointing is due to our defense. We fix that and we will be competitive. Hopefully the guys coming in can at least defend the rim and as has been stated we need a true PF. I like to think the glass is half full and we have to fill the other half.

[brewcity77]

The reason this season is disappointing is due to our defense. We fix that and we will be competitive. Hopefully the guys coming in can at least defend the rim and as has been stated we need a true PF. I like to think the glass is half full and we have to fill the other half.

The defense is disappointing, but I think it's all due to the artificially inflated expectations we had after beating Villanova. Say we lose that game, even if we go 2-3 in the next 5 (turn Providence into a win), we're 6-7 and while disappointed, the same record with two road losses and a home loss to a top-25 team don't look so bad.

We felt like world-beaters after taking down 'Nova. I wouldn't trade that experience because it was fantastic, but if our offense had stayed effective and we get the shot to fall against Providence and complete the comeback against Butler, which would have taken all of 6 more points (two of which were in the air at the buzzer) I don't think there's all that much disappointment.

That's my biggest concern right now. It isn't any of the games taken as a snapshot, it's the trend the past 5 games. Individually, they are all forgivable, but as a whole, it feels like a trend.

[willie warrior]

+1

I want Marquette to be an elite program. I want us to be routinely ranked, in the tournament, and with a legitimate chance to be a Final Four and National Title contender at least every few years. I'm okay with where we were under Crean and Buzz, and not happy with where we are now.

That said, I also realize that programs don't get there overnight. Buzz left a trainwreck. This was never a 2-year job, unless you had John Calipari as Buzz's replacement. It was always going to take 3-5 years to become nationally relevant again. That's just the reality of the situation. Many refuse to accept that reality.

I'm not sure we're on the right path, but I am positive that it's too soon to say decisively that we aren't.

Pretty much agree with all this, brew, except disagree about it being too soon to say that we are not on the right path. I believe we are not. The creighton and Villanova wins looked like we were, but the bed has been soiled since then. While there are a few games left, it appears this will be Wojo's third year of not making the dance. If that happens, we can definitely say for sure we are not in the right direction.

[Lennys Tap]

Vinnie

I strongly disagree on shared expectations. Respect your opinion but I hear a ton different expectations on here.

Goose -

Everybody has high hopes.

But not high expectations.

Big difference.

[Lennys Tap]

And the award for dodging the questions completely goes to Lennys.

I didn't "dodge" any questions. I assumed they were rhetorical ramblings since they had nothing to do with the topic. But of course I would take a one and done. And of course I'm all for recruiting higher level players than Traci Carter.

You can't have it both ways, Brew. If you give Wojo credit for recruiting three "impact freshmen" (who won nothing) isn't it fair to point out that one year later two of them no longer have any impact and the other one is looking more journeyman than star?

[Eldon]

+1

I want Marquette to be an elite program. I want us to be routinely ranked, in the tournament, and with a legitimate chance to be a Final Four and National Title contender at least every few years. I'm okay with where we were under Crean and Buzz, and not happy with where we are now.

That said, I also realize that programs don't get there overnight. Buzz left a trainwreck. This was never a 2-year job, unless you had John Calipari as Buzz's replacement. It was always going to take 3-5 years to become nationally relevant again. That's just the reality of the situation. Many refuse to accept that reality.

I'm not sure we're on the right path, but I am positive that it's too soon to say decisively that we aren't.

Just curious, but when would you be convinced that MU is not on the right path?

[MUBigDance]

To the original question...we aren't toast yet. Re formulate...4-1 or 3-2 with 2BET wins or 3-2 with 1 BET win and a SH meltdown and a weird bubble......heck what about 5-0?

And to think that I saw it on Mulberry Street...   

[brewcity77]

Just curious, but when would you be convinced that MU is not on the right path?

See the other thread I started, but if we don't make the NIT this year, my already existent concerns will grow. Next year should be NCAA or bust, and I feel we should be competing for conference titles by Spring 2019.

[brewcity77]

You can't have it both ways, Brew. If you give Wojo credit for recruiting three "impact freshmen" (who won nothing) isn't it fair to point out that one year later two of them no longer have any impact and the other one is looking more journeyman than star?

Not if you don't take context. One of those players he recruited was so good that he went to the NBA as a top-20 pick. One of them started as a freshman, but the coach brought in an even better player that threatened his playing time. So the only way your "both ways" line holds any water is if you want to refuse McDonald's All-American talent that wants to come here and you want the coach to stop recruiting better players than are on his current roster. That's not rhetorical in the least, it's the reality of the situation.

[warriorfred]

See the other thread I started, but if we don't make the NIT this year, my already existent concerns will grow. Next year should be NCAA or bust, and I feel we should be competing for conference titles by Spring 2019.

I cannot wrap my mind around competing for a conference title in 2019.  I can't see anyone on the roster (besides Howard and Hauser) making that leap.  I sincerely hope I am wrong.

[brewcity77]

I cannot wrap my mind around competing for a conference title in 2019.  I can't see anyone on the roster (besides Howard and Hauser) making that leap.  I sincerely hope I am wrong.

The roster would potentially be this:

Seniors: Cheatham, Heldt
Juniors: Howard, Sam Hauser, Froling, Anim
Sophomores: John, Eke, Cain
Freshmen: Joey Hauser, Bailey

I don't know if that roster competes. 7/11 have never played meaningful minutes for us. Joey may go elsewhere. But that seems to be the roster Wojo wants to build. Potentially another player or two (Greg Elliott and TJ Moss, maybe) to round it out, but if that was the roster in 2018-19 and we were still on the bubble, I don't think there's any defense one could come up with to keep Wojo.

[Lennys Tap]

Not if you don't take context. One of those players he recruited was so good that he went to the NBA as a top-20 pick. One of them started as a freshman, but the coach brought in an even better player that threatened his playing time. So the only way your "both ways" line holds any water is if you want to refuse McDonald's All-American talent that wants to come here and you want the coach to stop recruiting better players than are on his current roster. That's not rhetorical in the least, it's the reality of the situation.

I'll grant you that a "one and done" is a different animal. He doesn't help a rebuild much but as a coach you can't really say no. The other two guys you consider "impact" players, though...I don't think impact players leave the Big East for LaSalle - they go the other direction. And the idea that Haanif Cheatham is an impact player in the Big East is laughable.

[Anti-Dentite]

See the other thread I started, but if we don't make the NIT this year, my already existent concerns will grow. Next year should be NCAA or bust, and I feel we should be competing for conference titles by Spring 2019.

I agree but there has been little evidence to support MU getting there. Everyone knows the plug won't be pulled after this year but barring a near miraculous end to this season, next year has to be NCAA or bust. There are a lot of red flags at this point.

[4everwarriors]

Talent level on this year's team is pathetically mediocre. They are very slow-a-foot and have similar strengths and weaknesses, which includes a below average basketball IQ for players on this level. There is no on-the-floor leader. Instead we have a team that plays not to lose, rather than fighting to win. For those thinking the season will somehow be salvaged in the remaining games, think with your head and not your heart. Your eyes are not deceiving you.

[g0lden3agle]

Talent level on this year's team is pathetically mediocre. They are very slow-a-foot and have similar strenghts and weaknesses, which includes a below average basketball IQ for players on this level. There is no on-the-floor leader. Instead we have a team that plays not to lose, rather than fighting to win. For those thinking the season will somehow be salvaged in the remaining games, think with your head and not your heart. Your eyes are not deceiving you.

I'm sorry, you're not allowed to author coherent and valuable posts, ai'na?