I Want Our Kamar Baldwin

[Herman Cain]

You don't understand what JB says that FT% doesn't matter.

Butler hit their free throws under pressure down the stretch. They won the game.

I understand JB's thesis that free throw percentage not correlated to winning. That is a nice theory. Real life says you have to hit free throws when they count.

The reason we have a thread on Kamar Baldwin is because the person who started thread thought he played well. A number of other observers have pointed that out as well.

Real life,  not theory, is why Butler beat Arizona in ostensibly what was a road game.

[Jay Bee]

Butler hit their free throws under pressure down the stretch. They won the game.

I understand JB's thesis that free throw percentage not correlated to winning. That is a nice theory. Real life says you have to hit free throws when they count.

The reason we have a thread on Kamar Baldwin is because the person who started thread thought he played well. A number of other observers have pointed that out as well.

Real life,  not theory, is why Butler beat Arizona in ostensibly what was a road game.

No. The thread on Kamar is faulty in many ways.

But on free throws, no. It's not a theory. There isn't correlation between team FT% and winning. It just doesn't exist.

[PGsHeroes32]

I just wish we had gotten Kyle Washington

[GGGG]

Butler hit their free throws under pressure down the stretch. They won the game.

I understand JB's thesis that free throw percentage not correlated to winning. That is a nice theory. Real life says you have to hit free throws when they count.

So you actually don't understand it.  Gotcha.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This thread got away a little bit.

All I mean by the original premise was I would like to land a three or two star kid out of high school. who ends up playing more like a 5 or 4 star kid. I'm ecstatic with Howard and Hauser, not saying I would rather have Baldwin over either one. I am hopeful that Cain, John, Eke, or some combo of them will end up being that for us next year.

[Billy Hoyle]

Were all top 100 players. Lazar on the other hand would count

Lazar was a 4 star, 73rd nationally per Rivals. Crean beat out Calhoun to get him.

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/41025

[brewcity77]

This thread got away a little bit.

All I mean by the original premise was I would like to land a three or two star kid out of high school. who ends up playing more like a 5 or 4 star kid. I'm ecstatic with Howard and Hauser, not saying I would rather have Baldwin over either one. I am hopeful that Cain, John, Eke, or some combo of them will end up being that for us next year.

I think Cain is probably the best bet. Kid seems to have a very complete game and could come in and be a difference maker. With Johnson and Reinhardt both graduating, his main competition at the 3/4 will be Cheatham, Hauser, and likely John. I don't think he'll necessarily start right away, but I think he can carve out a quick niche.

It's been awhile since we had someone come in at that level and really contribute right away. Since Wade a decade ago, the best true three-star freshmen we've had have probably been David Cubillan, Davante Gardner, Todd Mayo, and I suppose Traci Carter. Davante was incredibly limited due to conditioning while Traci was somewhat forced into action and performed acceptably but clearly wasn't the instant star you're describing.

Todd was good from the start and able to contribute on both ends. On a team with Jae and DJO, he didn't have to star, but he at least played like a 4-star. Cooby is probably the forgotten one because his sophomore and junior seasons were pretty disappointing, but he was really good as a freshman. Absolute sniper from outside, reliable as a backup point and three-point specialist off guard. If one of the incoming frosh next year could play at Cooby's freshman year level, I'd be ecstatic. Now that said, 2007 (Cooby) and 2012 (Mayo) are a long time ago. Including 2003 (Wade), it looks like we get one of those guys every 4-5 years. We're overdue on finding another.

[Zephyr820]

Kamar Baldwin is FIFTH in the country in steal percentage and has a 115.1 aggregate offensive rating as a freshman point guard.

He has simply been one of the best freshman in the country.

He would be without the offense, which is way above average, because he's already become one of the best on ball defenders in the country.

[BM1090]

Jamal Cain is also a top 100 guy in most ranking services so he probably wouldn't qualify for this discussion.

[the eagle]

I'll agree with Davante - he was never quite a name known outside of the faithful by the time he left, but he was a dependent, reliable guy who made the best out of what he had. Was not a big name get out of high school, but made an impact early in his career (thinking of you, Bucknell).

[Jay Bee]

Kamar Baldwin is FIFTH in the country in steal percentage and has a 115.1 aggregate offensive rating as a freshman point guard.

He has simply been one of the best freshman in the country.

Lol, you're nuts.

In his 2 games vs Top 50 Adjusted opps-- which are also his most recent two games -- his usage has been a fairly high 25%, but his Ortg has been a horrible 71

[statnik]

I'm not sure if he was a three star but DG was under the radar coming into college.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'm not sure if he was a three star but DG was under the radar coming into college.

Mentioned him in the OP. He's the closest thing but I wouldn't have called him a stud freshman year. He only got about 9 minutes per game IIRC.

[brewcity77]

Mentioned him in the OP. He's the closest thing but I wouldn't have called him a stud freshman year. He only got about 9 minutes per game IIRC.

Yup, Davante didn't really play nearly enough. He turned out to be very good for a three-star, but I'd maintain the only 2-3 star players that really outperformed expectations as freshmen here since Wade were Cooby and Mayo. The rest either didn't play enough to count (Gardner), needed more time to develop (Otule), or simply never really became much of anything at all (Hazel, Smith, Dawson, Derrick, Mbao, Ferguson...the list goes on).

[jesmu84]

Yup, Davante didn't really play nearly enough. He turned out to be very good for a three-star, but I'd maintain the only 2-3 star players that really outperformed expectations as freshmen here since Wade were Cooby and Mayo. The rest either didn't play enough to count (Gardner), needed more time to develop (Otule), or simply never really became much of anything at all (Hazel, Smith, Dawson, Derrick, Mbao, Ferguson...the list goes on).

Whoa. Do not be so disrespectful of Magic.

[LAMUfan]

Yup, Davante didn't really play nearly enough. He turned out to be very good for a three-star, but I'd maintain the only 2-3 star players that really outperformed expectations as freshmen here since Wade were Cooby and Mayo. The rest either didn't play enough to count (Gardner), needed more time to develop (Otule), or simply never really became much of anything at all (Hazel, Smith, Dawson, Derrick, Mbao, Ferguson...the list goes on).

Otule got plenty of time to develop

[Galway Eagle]

Lazar was a 4 star, 73rd nationally per Rivals. Crean beat out Calhoun to get him.

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/41025

That was only after a year of prep school. My understanding is he had no D1 offers after regular High School.

[Jay Bee]

Kamar Baldwin with another stinker, this time against Central Arkansas. Markus' brother Jordan w/a strong game against young Kamar.

Season to date..
Kamar Baldwin - 108 ORtg, 20% usage, 58.3% eFG%, 53% minutes
Markus Howard - 113 ORtg, 21% usage, 64.5% eFG%, 42% minutes
Sam Hauser - 130 ORtg, 13% usage, 71.6% eFG%, 55% minutes

Butler Wants Our Markus 2 NBA & Sam Hauser?

[Jay Bee]

Kamar Baldwin with yet another stinker as Butler falls tonight to I4State. Kamar with 4 turnovers in 24 minutes; posted a 54 ORtg

Season to date...
Kamar Baldwin - 101 ORtg, 20% usage, 57.5% eFG%, 54% minutes
Markus Howard - 123 ORtg, 21% usage, 65.4% eFG%, 45% minutes
Sam Hauser - 141 ORtg, 14% usage, 78.7% eFG%, 58% minutes

Kamar's ORtg would look like crap - easily the team's second worst, behind KR. Lotsa steals though!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Kamar Baldwin with yet another stinker as Butler falls tonight to I4State. Kamar with 4 turnovers in 24 minutes; posted a 54 ORtg

Season to date...
Kamar Baldwin - 101 ORtg, 20% usage, 57.5% eFG%, 54% minutes
Markus Howard - 123 ORtg, 21% usage, 65.4% eFG%, 45% minutes
Sam Hauser - 141 ORtg, 14% usage, 78.7% eFG%, 58% minutes

Kamar's ORtg would look like crap - easily the team's second worst, behind KR. Lotsa steals though!

Because I started a thread where I said I wanted a three star player to come in and play like a four star player (so MH and Doogie have nothing to do with the topic) and that I was hopeful that one of our three star players from next year's class are going to do that, are we going to have to hear about every time Kamar Baldwin has a bad game?

[Lennys Tap]

Because I started a thread where I said I wanted a three star player to come in and play like a four star player (so MH and Doogie have nothing to do with the topic) and that I was hopeful that one of our three star players from next year's class are going to do that, are we going to have to hear about every time Kamar Baldwin has a bad game?

To be fair, TAMU, the title of the topic (chosen by you) was "I Want Our Kamar Baldwin".

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

To be fair, TAMU, the title of the topic (chosen by you) was "I Want Our Kamar Baldwin".

And I stand by it. I want a three star who makes an immediate impact and plays much better than his ranking would have led you to believe. Kamar Baldwin is still that.

[Herman Cain]

And I stand by it. I want a three star who makes an immediate impact and plays much better than his ranking would have led you to believe. Kamar Baldwin is still that.

I agree with this analysis.

[Jay Bee]

Yesterday he posted a poor ORtg thanks to 3 turnovers and just 37.5% eFG shooting. Not sure I'd crown the kid just yet. He was good late summer of 2015 with the Atlanta Celtics... his size and role is an issue (see: some of our guys). Scorer. Turnover rate is rising on him despite being a scorer... he's shot 67.5% eFG.. when that drops, then what? Career high of 12 points...

We've got Markus Howard (#71 RSCI) and Sam Hauser (#94?), both underrated by the RSCI... and I'll happily take both over Kamar.

2016-17:
Kamar Baldwin: 106.3 ORtg; 19.3% usage; 55.7% eFG%; 17.2% TO rate
M2N: 118.6; 25.4%; 65.8%; 20.5%
Sam: 127.8; 13.6%; 62.7%; 10.8%

2017-18:
Kamar Badlwin: 91.7; 25.4%%; 45.9%; 18.7%
M2N: 128.3; 27.4%; 61.8%; 10.2%
Sam: 125.3; 19.2%; 63.0%; 14.6%

hi

[Herman Cain]

2016-17:
Kamar Baldwin: 106.3 ORtg; 19.3% usage; 55.7% eFG%; 17.2% TO rate
M2N: 118.6; 25.4%; 65.8%; 20.5%
Sam: 127.8; 13.6%; 62.7%; 10.8%

2017-18:
Kamar Badlwin: 91.7; 25.4%%; 45.9%; 18.7%
M2N: 128.3; 27.4%; 61.8%; 10.2%
Sam: 125.3; 19.2%; 63.0%; 14.6%

hi

Kamar is averaging 13.4 ppg 4.1 rebound and 2.6 assists a game. In the real world of actual production he is doing a good job.  No one ever said he was more effective than Markus or Sam.