1,000 point scorers

[mu03eng]

1. The S16 S16 E8 run is irrelevant to this conversation. He took over a team that missed the NIT and lost 4 starters to graduation. 4 SENIOR STARTERS LOST FROM A VERY AVERAGE TEAM.

2. Not only that, he didn't have any time to recruit because he took over in April.

He was left with nothing. I'm pretty open-minded, but anyone that thinks Wojo was left with anything resembling a functional basketball team is wrong. I don't know why I bother, it's admittedly a waste of time.

[MUFan2007]

1. The S16 S16 E8 run is irrelevant to this conversation. He took over a team that missed the NIT and lost 4 starters to graduation. 4 SENIOR STARTERS LOST FROM A VERY AVERAGE TEAM.

2. Not only that, he didn't have any time to recruit because he took over in April.

He was left with nothing. I'm pretty open-minded, but anyone that thinks Wojo was left with anything resembling a functional basketball team is wrong. I don't know why I bother, it's admittedly a waste of time.

Okay.  You are right.  Sorry.

[bilsu]

I take a little exception with #2. Recruiting would include trying to keep the already signed players. He only kept Cohen and seemed to have the attitude he did not want them unless they really wanted to be here. I think he started out with a level of Duke elitism that hurt the start of his coaching career.

[wadesworld]

I take a little exception with #2. Recruiting would include trying to keep the already signed players. He only kept Cohen and seemed to have the attitude he did not want them unless they really wanted to be here. I think he started out with a level of Duke elitism that hurt the start of his coaching career.

Easier said than done.  Keeping one is about as many as you could hope for when a coach leaves for another program, especially when the new coach is an assistant from a different program who had never spoken to those kids before.

[GGGG]

I take a little exception with #2. Recruiting would include trying to keep the already signed players. He only kept Cohen and seemed to have the attitude he did not want them unless they really wanted to be here. I think he started out with a level of Duke elitism that hurt the start of his coaching career.

My God what a terrible thing for a coach to want.  A player who actually WANTS to be at Marquette??? 

[tower912]

I take a little exception with #2. Recruiting would include trying to keep the already signed players. He only kept Cohen and seemed to have the attitude he did not want them unless they really wanted to be here. I think he started out with a level of Duke elitism that hurt the start of his coaching career.

Naw.   Most of that class had committed to Buzz, not Marquette.   No Buzz, no recruit class.   Sandy said he always wanted to play for MU and did not have a steady stream of suitors knocking down his door.    Ergo......

[brewcity77]

I take a little exception with #2. Recruiting would include trying to keep the already signed players. He only kept Cohen and seemed to have the attitude he did not want them unless they really wanted to be here. I think he started out with a level of Duke elitism that hurt the start of his coaching career.

This isn't right. The staff went hard after Shayok but got beat out by someone who'd been on him longer in Bennett. They also wanted Hill, but it was quickly clear he wouldn't be coming. Don't think they put much into Pierce, though had he wanted to I've heard his scholarship would have been offered.

Wojo essentially started with 4 recruits he could go after but was starting from zero while the other coaches had laid the groundwork. That he even retained one in this day and age is pretty impressive.

[Herman Cain]

Crean was 30-28 in his first 2  years at Marquette.  Wojo is 33-32.  Fairly comparably so far.  One coached in CUSA, the other in the Big East.

Mike Deane was 44-20 in his first two years with an NIT final appearance and an NCAA appearance. His total record at MU was 100-55. Wojo will never come close to equaling Deanes performance the first 5 years. I know everyone will pile on that he had KO's recruits. My take is you still have to coach the games. Wojo had plenty of talent in year one. He made lots of rookie coaching mistakes which have been well chronicled on this site.

[wadesworld]

Mike Deane was 44-20 in his first two years with an NIT final appearance and an NCAA appearance. His total record at MU was 100-55. Wojo will never come close to equaling Deanes performance the first 5 years. I know everyone will pile on that he had KO's recruits. My take is you still have to coach the games. Wojo had plenty of talent in year one. He made lots of rookie coaching mistakes which have been well chronicled on this site.

Wojo's best players were Derrick Wilson, Juan Anderson, and Matt Carlino.  If you think that's "plenty of talent" more power to you.  The good thing is you predicted Hank would be a 4 year college basketball player, so I'm not putting too much stock into your prediction for Wojo's tenure at Marquette.

[brewcity77]

Mike Deane was 44-20 in his first two years with an NIT final appearance and an NCAA appearance. His total record at MU was 100-55. Wojo will never come close to equaling Deanes performance the first 5 years. I know everyone will pile on that he had KO's recruits. My take is you still have to coach the games. Wojo had plenty of talent in year one. He made lots of rookie coaching mistakes which have been well chronicled on this site.

This is a blatant falsehood. That first team was both shorthanded and talent deficient. Derrick, Juan, Taylor, and Dawson were undertalented at this level, Cohen, Duane, Burton, and Jajuan were inexperienced, and Carlino was only one guy. You can spout about top-100 players until your tongue falls out, that was a bad team. Period.

[bilsu]

My God what a terrible thing for a coach to want.  A player who actually WANTS to be at Marquette???

Originally they wanted to be at MU, so it was more about selling them on the idea of playing for Wojo than playing for MU. The way I understand it Wojo did not even meet with Hill. All recruiters have to be salesmen and part of that requires selling yourself to recruits. Maybe in the end he would not of been able to keep any more than Cohen, but he seemed to give up right away on the three other recruits.

[GGGG]

Originally they wanted to be at MU, so it was more about selling them on the idea of playing for Wojo than playing for MU. The way I understand it Wojo did not even meet with Hill. All recruiters have to be salesmen and part of that requires selling yourself to recruits. Maybe in the end he would not of been able to keep any more than Cohen, but he seemed to give up right away on the three other recruits.

He reached out to them all.  Hill made it known that he was going to follow Buzz - or Isaac Chew.  Smart idea not to waste time especially considering that he lost no transfers out. 

[Herman Cain]

This is a blatant falsehood. That first team was both shorthanded and talent deficient. Derrick, Juan, Taylor, and Dawson were undertalented at this level, Cohen, Duane, Burton, and Jajuan were inexperienced, and Carlino was only one guy. You can spout about top-100 players until your tongue falls out, that was a bad team. Period.

I think Mike Deane, or any other seasoned coach, would have been delighted to have the talent Wojo had in 2014-15 and gotten much more out of the team. I don't understand why people are not willing to put the blame squarely on Wojo and his inexperience. I think that is where the problem was. Not players. I am pro player and anti coach. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I don't understand why people are not willing to put the blame squarely on Wojo and his inexperience. I think that is where the problem was. Not players. I am pro player and anti coach.

Maybe because it is not the only reason?

[tower912]

I think Mike Deane, or any other seasoned coach, would have been delighted to have the talent Wojo had in 2014-15 and gotten much more out of the team. I don't understand why people are not willing to put the blame squarely on Wojo and his inexperience. I think that is where the problem was. Not players. I am pro player and anti coach.

14-15?    Shenanigans.   The ghosts of Dean Smith and Al McGuire being channeled through Bobby Knight and Coach K could not have gotten a big season from the 14-15 team.    I'm not completely sold on Wojo, but he gets a pass for 14-15.   In actuality, considering the player defections, injuries, and the fact that some who stayed didn't buy in the way they should to the point that there were DNP-CD's with only 8 scholarship players available, Wojo may have done a better job with that team than 15-16.

[Herman Cain]

14-15?    Shenanigans.   The ghosts of Dean Smith and Al McGuire being channeled through Bobby Knight and Coach K could not have gotten a big season from the 14-15 team.    I'm not completely sold on Wojo, but he gets a pass for 14-15.   In actuality, considering the player defections, injuries, and the fact that some who stayed didn't buy in the way they should to the point that there were DNP-CD's with only 8 scholarship players available, Wojo may have done a better job with that team than 15-16.

That is your view and I respect it.  I am like Lazar on this issue and believe those ghosts could have gotten the job done.

[GGGG]

The fact that not a single player from the 2014-15 team has come close to the NBA should tell you that the team was too inexperienced and talent-deficient. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think Mike Deane, or any other seasoned coach, would have been delighted to have the talent Wojo had in 2014-15 and gotten much more out of the team. I don't understand why people are not willing to put the blame squarely on Wojo and his inexperience. I think that is where the problem was. Not players. I am pro player and anti coach.

Because we are not fueled by an agenda that is pro one group and anti another. We are pro Marquette, both coaches and players. We see the mistakes that Wojo made as a coach. We also see the deficiencies of the players. We can arguments about which group was more at fault, but as soon as you try to lay the blame entirely on one person's shoulders, your argument loses all credibility. You're trying to make the 8 scholarship squad of 14-15 out to be worldbeaters for Chirissakes. If that doesn't show a biased lens, I don't know what does.

[Marcus92]

Mike Deane was a good coach, but by no means a great one. And he couldn't bring in the talent to sustain what Kevin O'Neil accomplished.

It's true, Deane went 100-55 (.645) in 5 seasons at Marquette. But he made only 2 NCAA appearances and missed the postseason completely in his last year — finishing just 14-15 overall, 6-10 in conference (good for 6th place). That's not what I'd call a great coaching performance. Far from it.

Beyond that, Deane coached in the Great Midwest and Conference USA — neither of which ever competed at the same level of the current Big East. Here are the rankings for conference strength during each of his seasons (the number of schools that made the NCAA tournament in parentheses):

1994-95 Great Midwest — 5th (3/7 NCAA teams)
1995-96 Conference USA — 6th (4/11)
1996-97 Conference USA — 8th (4/12)
1997-98 Conference USA — 8th (3/12)
1998-99 Conference USA — 6th (4/12)

And the same rankings during Wojo's first 2 seasons:

2014-15 Big East — 4th (6/10)
2015-16 Big East — 4th (5/10)

In Wojo's first season, there's no disputing that he didn't even have enough scholarship players to hold a 5-on-5 practice. There's also no disputing that the players he did have were mostly holdovers from a 17-15 team that missed the NIT. That doesn't sound like the makings of a great team to me.

And if you look at the schedule, 16 of our 32 games were against NCAA teams: non conference games Ohio State, Michigan State and Wisconsin, plus 13 in conference (including Nova during the Big East tournament). The Big East was truly a beast that year. In fact, it was far tougher than 2013-14, when only 4 Big East teams played in the NCAA.

We'll see how far Wojo can take Marquette. While I'm in the cautious optimist camp, not everyone's convinced. But the idea of deciding he's no good as a coach based on his first season — or declaring that another coach could have done better — makes absolutely no sense to me.

[PGsHeroes32]

The fact that anyone can in all seriousness call the 14-15' team "talented" is actually impressive.

It's pretty cliche to say, but that is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard

[Galway Eagle]

I think Mike Deane, or any other seasoned coach, would have been delighted to have the talent Wojo had in 2014-15 and gotten much more out of the team. I don't understand why people are not willing to put the blame squarely on Wojo and his inexperience. I think that is where the problem was. Not players. I am pro player and anti coach.

Mike deane'a your example? The guy that took a team coming off a sweet 16 to the NIT when we should've been a shoe in for the NCAA?

I agree that a more seasoned coach may have won a small handful more games but to think that that team was talented is putting way too much stock in HS recruiting rankings.

[Herman Cain]

Because we are not fueled by an agenda that is pro one group and anti another. We are pro Marquette, both coaches and players. We see the mistakes that Wojo made as a coach. We also see the deficiencies of the players. We can arguments about which group was more at fault, but as soon as you try to lay the blame entirely on one person's shoulders, your argument loses all credibility. You're trying to make the 8 scholarship squad of 14-15 out to be worldbeaters for Chirissakes. If that doesn't show a biased lens, I don't know what does.

Your not willing to lay any blame for our sorry state of affairs on Wojo for his coaching inexperience. You prefer to blame the players. The players work really hard and give it their all. It is the coaches that consistently let the players down in this case.

I want to see Marquette win and win now. I am tired of us being a doormat in the Big East. Wojo needs to get his act together and coach some winning basketball. He has done a good job recruiting , he owes it to the players he is recruiting to be a better game coach.

If we beat Vanderbilt I will gladly eat crow.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

If we beat Vanderbilt I will gladly eat crow.

So Wojo is terrible unless we win one non-conference game very early in the season? 

I am not sure I get that...

[brewcity77]

I think Mike Deane, or any other seasoned coach, would have been delighted to have the talent Wojo had in 2014-15 and gotten much more out of the team. I don't understand why people are not willing to put the blame squarely on Wojo and his inexperience. I think that is where the problem was. Not players. I am pro player and anti coach.

Actually, you inadvertently touched on the problem with that team. There weren't pro players on that team. Certainly not among the upperclassmen.

The best five players (Fischer, Carlino, Juan, Derrick, Duane) were blatantly obvious but I'm curious what more Wojo could have got from them. Each of those had what was at the time the best year of their careers. And what difference maker did he not adequately utilize?

Jajuan and Deonte had talent but were incredibly raw and neither was ready to contribute at this level, especially on the defensive end. Dawson was clearly in over his head. Sandy was a freshmen.

I'm sorry, but placing that first year on Wojo is the absolute pinnacle of Mount Stupid. Not only was it a bad team, it was a bad team with no depth. Even with no talent and no depth, that team still competed most of the year until running out of gas the second half of Big East play.

[brewcity77]

Your not willing to lay any blame for our sorry state of affairs on Wojo for his coaching inexperience. You prefer to blame the players.

It's not blaming the players. It's acknowledging that the players in 2014-15 were woefully undertalented and not remotely up to the task of competing at this level.

No one here blames the players. We just accept that they weren't very good and that 2014-15 was, by far, the worst collection of players Marquette has put on the court in this century.