Poll: When will you be convinced about Wojo?

[GoldenDieners32]

I would like to see consecutive tourney births

[4everwarriors]

Eye'd be curious ta c dat too, ai na?

[Goose]

MU82

I agree they Shaka as a target and completely loved that plan. Their Plan B was far lessed defined. I remember talking with someone the Sunday after Buzz left and laughing about the pool in Plan B. Was was not overly well defined and Wojo was an afterthought in that discussion. That said, the afterthought was there and Doc's connection with him was well noted.

Would like to add that they had no choice but to be better prepared with Buzz leaving. They had plenty of time to put together a plan because he was long gone before he actually quit.

I continue my belief that that university does a ton of great things but their management of the ball team is not one of them. If any senior management group in the private sector had similar success they would be held far more accountable. School spends crazy amount of money on the program and the success does not match the investment. It really does come down to how they school defines success. Judging by many on here, the bar for the program probably is not as high as the bar I set for the program.

[brewcity77]

After Shaka didn't work out, it sounded like Plan B was to survey the market for who was out there. I don't think anyone really planned on Wojo, but when he interviewed, he knocked it out of the park.

Obviously we have no idea how it ends, but kind of reminiscent of how Marquette didn't plan to hire Al McGuire. Apparently he found out and pretty much came into the interview with an "I'll show them" mentality. It worked, MU hired Al, and the rest is history.

[MUFan2007]

MU82

I agree they Shaka as a target and completely loved that plan. Their Plan B was far lessed defined. I remember talking with someone the Sunday after Buzz left and laughing about the pool in Plan B. Was was not overly well defined and Wojo was an afterthought in that discussion. That said, the afterthought was there and Doc's connection with him was well noted.

Would like to add that they had no choice but to be better prepared with Buzz leaving. They had plenty of time to put together a plan because he was long gone before he actually quit.

I continue my belief that that university does a ton of great things but their management of the ball team is not one of them. If any senior management group in the private sector had similar success they would be held far more accountable. School spends crazy amount of money on the program and the success does not match the investment. It really does come down to how they school defines success. Judging by many on here, the bar for the program probably is not as high as the bar I set for the program.

It was quite evident through Buzz's coaching all of his last season at MU that "he gowne."

Second bolded:  Yes, it seems the bar has fallen quite low given the abysmal performance of the team the past three years.  Since the building of the AL, the admission into the original Big East, and then having great success in the original Big East, when Buzz left - the program was at heights it hadn't seen since the 70's. There is NO reason MU should not be a consistent Top 25 team with a good* coach. 

I'm hopeful Wojo has learned a lot from these past two seasons, and will show great improvement this year.  Great improvement would simply start with playing the best players the most minutes, in a consistent and clearly defined rotation.

[wadesworld]

It was quite evident through Buzz's coaching all of his last season at MU that "he gowne."

Second bolded:  Yes, it seems the bar has fallen quite low given the abysmal performance of the team the past three years.  Since the building of the AL, the admission into the original Big East, and then having great success in the original Big East, when Buzz left - the program was at heights it hadn't seen since the 70's. There is NO reason MU should not be a consistent Top 25 team with a good* coach. 

I'm hopeful Wojo has learned a lot from these past two seasons, and will show great improvement this year.  Great improvement would simply start with playing the best players the most minutes, in a consistent and clearly defined rotation.

Still haven't learned anything about basketball in your time away I see.

[cheebs09]

I think we have gone a little overboard on how bad we were the last three years. Wojo' says first year was rough. In Buzz's last year, we were 9-9 in conference. It's not where we want to be, but it's not like we have 3 seasons of 4 wins or less.

I'm optimistic about Wojo. I think he brings much more stability to the program. I don't have any barometer, but more just the eye test. As a game coach, I'm still not convinced. I'm interested with a more experienced team, if he will have more flexibility with in game adjustments. I'm also skeptical with his Man defense. We just get beat too often off the dribble. We lost a lot of momentum in games because we couldn't get key stops.

i think he's done well with player development. The freshman seem more ready under him than with Buzz. Granted, he couldn't bury them on the bench like Buzz could due to more talented experience. JuJuan's development was encouraging.

All in all I'm hoping for the best, and think he's a good coach. I'm just recognizing there's more patience required than I hoped as he and the team gain more experience.

[MUFan2007]

Still haven't learned anything about basketball in your time away I see.

What I did learn is basically read a Wade's post, and you can count on the exact opposite outcome.  How did that Elite 8 for last year's team prediction work out for you bud?   

Might want to backpeddle from your predictions of greatness for Rowsey for this season...think he'll be a nice role player this year and solid contributor next year. 

[wadesworld]

What I did learn is basically read a Wade's post, and you can count on the exact opposite outcome.  How did that Elite 8 for last year's team prediction work out for you bud?   

Might want to backpeddle from your predictions of greatness for Rowsey for this season...think he'll be a nice role player this year and solid contributor next year.

Yawn.

[bilsu]

After Shaka didn't work out, it sounded like Plan B was to survey the market for who was out there. I don't think anyone really planned on Wojo, but when he interviewed, he knocked it out of the park.

Obviously we have no idea how it ends, but kind of reminiscent of how Marquette didn't plan to hire Al McGuire. Apparently he found out and pretty much came into the interview with an "I'll show them" mentality. It worked, MU hired Al, and the rest is history.

and Al was 8-18, 14-12 and in his 3rd season he made the NIT.

[brewcity77]

I think we have gone a little overboard on how bad we were the last three years. Wojo' says first year was rough. In Buzz's last year, we were 9-9 in conference. It's not where we want to be, but it's not like we have 3 seasons of 4 wins or less.

I think this is a really good point. Year by year...

2013-14: End result was disappointing, but we had a winning record, 9-9 in Big East, and really only lost it in the last four games. Two double-overtime losses killed our bid, otherwise 19-13 (11-7) probably gets us in. 4 total overtime losses doomed that season, which was disappointing given the three seasons preceding, but really not that bad.

2014-15: No sugarcoating a turd. Lost coach, lost recruiting class, lost players, and talent deficiency made for a bad team. Carlino saved it from being completely god awful, but this was bad by any measure.

2015-16: 20-win season, great player to watch in Ellenson, and a not-great-but-respectable 8-10 in conference play. Heartbreakers at home to DePaul and Creighton were the difference between staying home in March and going to the Tourney. Not ideal, but by no means terrible.

[Disco Hippie]

2015-16: 20-win season, great player to watch in Ellenson, and a not-great-but-respectable 8-10 in conference play. Heartbreakers at home to DePaul and Creighton were the difference between staying home in March and going to the Tourney. Not ideal, but by no means terrible.

Not making the NCAA Tournament should be terrible!    When will our program return to the days when anything but that was considered a a major disappointment?  I wish I knew!

[naginiF]

Not making the NCAA Tournament should be terrible!    When will our program return to the days when anything but that was considered a a major disappointment?  I wish I knew!

Seriously?  you are either drunk, delusional or a troll.

If i remember correctly there were two program rankings in the last 5 years - one had us #17 out of the last 50 years and one had us top 25 since 2000 (ESPN and CBS??).  That's pretty impressive and there are dozens of "big" programs that would love to have that track record and hundreds that look up.  And those above us?  Either very respectable that we should emulate (not envy) or have taken a path to success we should not want.

If you don't expect set backs and down years while we retool you are fooling yourself. or, if you are so focussed on the short term results you should contact Heise for retirement advice*

*kidding Jesse

[MU82]

MU82

I agree they Shaka as a target and completely loved that plan. Their Plan B was far lessed defined. I remember talking with someone the Sunday after Buzz left and laughing about the pool in Plan B. Was was not overly well defined and Wojo was an afterthought in that discussion. That said, the afterthought was there and Doc's connection with him was well noted.

Would like to add that they had no choice but to be better prepared with Buzz leaving. They had plenty of time to put together a plan because he was long gone before he actually quit.

I continue my belief that that university does a ton of great things but their management of the ball team is not one of them. If any senior management group in the private sector had similar success they would be held far more accountable. School spends crazy amount of money on the program and the success does not match the investment. It really does come down to how they school defines success. Judging by many on here, the bar for the program probably is not as high as the bar I set for the program.

My bar simply is realistic. Plus, I'm an optimistic guy at heart.

Many here would have had Al all but fired after 2 years. Not to mention what they would have thought of Coach K early, Jay Wright early, Jim Harbaugh early at Stanford, etc, etc, etc.

[brewcity77]

Not making the NCAA Tournament should be terrible!    When will our program return to the days when anything but that was considered a a major disappointment?  I wish I knew!

The reality is programs go through down periods. Kentucky has missed recent tournaments. So has North Carolina. Indiana. Most big time programs sometimes miss the Dance.

We were left with a crapshow. Despite that, we've had winning records and been 2 wins away from the tourney two of the past three years. Time to suck it up, move on, and embrace the future of the program. I'm very excited about watching guys like Cheatham, Howard, Hauser, and others develop. I'm also excited about having 3 proven seniors on this roster.

I'm just more excited about the future of the program than I am disappointed about the past.

[bilsu]

There really should be two sets of expectations.

The first one is the program's overall expectations. My expectations would be that that MU should be making the tournament 9 out of 10 years and usually winning at least the first round game.

The other expectation should be for the current team. Expectations that are too high for a team are going to lead to a disappointing year when those expectations are not met. Everyone here wants to believe that MU is better than 7th place finish that most outside prognosticators are predicting. The one I think we should consider as the most accurate are the predicted Big East rankings by the leagues coaches. They are the ones that know all the teams in the Big East the best. However, if you look at that ranking there was not a big difference in the number of votes between the middle teams, which does give us hope. In the end if we finish 9-9 (improvement over last year), 6th place (improvement over last year and better than predicted) with a bid to the NIT (less than what we want, but better than last year) we should be satisfied with this year, but still maintain our longterm goals for the program.

In the end the coach is responsible for the talent on the floor, so if you feel Wojo cannot build a team capable of getting to the tournament in the future you should be unhappy. If you see the team moving towards that goal (maybe not as fast as we like) we should be patient.

[Galway Eagle]

I think we're all guilty of focusing too much on postseason and not enough on actual results. I don't think anyone would argue that this stretch has been better than the dukiet and late deane early crean years but the NIT changed so now we don't rewarded as easily. It's a shame but we actually are in a better spot than the Tony smith or wardle years.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I think we're all guilty of focusing too much on postseason and not enough on actual results. I don't think anyone would argue that this stretch has been better than the dukiet and late deane early crean years but the NIT changed so now we don't rewarded as easily. It's a shame but we actually are in a better spot than the Tony smith or wardle years.

I think the actual results are a fantastic reflection of the product on the floor. 

We are in a better position than the years you reference because we now spend more money on Bball- period. The fact the program stepped back this far is because of mis-management by MU (pilarz + BOT)

Before any jumps on me I am not saying that the situational stuff with Wojo isn't real - just that it's time to stop twisting ourselves in knots about the situation and now start measuring W's.

[Galway Eagle]

I think the actual results are a fantastic reflection of the product on the floor. 

We are in a better position than the years you reference because we now spend more money on Bball- period. The fact the program stepped back this far is because of mis-management by MU (pilarz + BOT)

Before any jumps on me I am not saying that the situational stuff with Wojo isn't real - just that it's time to stop twisting ourselves in knots about the situation and now start measuring W's.

I agree with you but I'm just saying we're comparing this to our other down periods but in those periods we got into the NIT with a 15-14 record in 2000 that would never happen now and O'neil got us in with that same record in 90 and Dukiet got us in the NIT with a 16-13 record. We're only viewing those periods as better because there was a postseason not taking a step back and realizing that Buzz's last team and last year's squad were both tremendously better than those squads that made the postseason back in the day.

[Nukem2]

I agree with you but I'm just saying we're comparing this to our other down periods but in those periods we got into the NIT with a 15-14 record in 2000 that would never happen now and O'neil got us in with that same record in 90 and Dukiet got us in the NIT with a 16-13 record. We're only viewing those periods as better because there was a postseason not taking a step back and realizing that Buzz's last team and last year's squad were both tremendously better than those squads that made the postseason back in the day.

Difference back then was the NIT was not packed with low major conference champions who lost their conference tourneys.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I agree with you but I'm just saying we're comparing this to our other down periods but in those periods we got into the NIT with a 15-14 record in 2000 that would never happen now and O'neil got us in with that same record in 90 and Dukiet got us in the NIT with a 16-13 record. We're only viewing those periods as better because there was a postseason not taking a step back and realizing that Buzz's last team and last year's squad were both tremendously better than those squads that made the postseason back in the day.

Our team has more potential/talent than the end of the Deane years - but the experience and the way Deane coached people up, I am not so sure it wouldn't have been a competitive game.  The feel in the arena is pretty darn similar to the Deane years.  I can't speak to dukiet.

[GGGG]

There was nothing more depressing than the Dukiet years.  Not only were they terrible on the court, but joining the MCC seemed like we were raising the white flag for the entire program.  It changed quickly though...there's always hope!!

[bilsu]

Difference back then was the NIT was not packed with low major conference champions who lost their conference tourneys.

That is true, but the NCAA field and the NIT field were smaller back then.
It really did bother me that Buzz's 17-15 team and last year's 20-13 team did not get an NIT bid.
That was because I always thought that MU was a commodity that the NIT wanted in their tournament. We also had a star player last year. Apparently that no longer matters. It is a blow to my ego that the NIT can dismiss MU so easily.

[barfolomew]

OK.
As required, I waited until the 5th page of a thread to evaluate a hire.

I agree with 60% of you, disagree with 38% and think the remaining 1% are either crazy or just bad at math.

[Bocephys]

OK.
As required, I waited until the 5th page of a thread to evaluate a hire.

I agree with 60% of you, disagree with 38% and think the remaining 1% are either crazy or just bad at math.

Someone's prepared for Tuesday