Poll: When will you be convinced about Wojo?

[fjm]

Harbaugh took over Hoke's team that had a losing season and turned it around immediately. I would say that demonstrates how a coach can make all the difference.

The point is valid. (Fr Davitt would agree.)

Right but I think the point Marcus was making was that when he FIRST started at Stanford, it took time to get started... from there he learned what it took to succeed in his profession.

Look at any profession: In my first two years at the hospital in my profession, there was as much learning on the job as there was uncertainty. Now I'm very confident and have experience.
 
Harbaugh's first two years were learning curve (much like Wojo's), then he went to san fran, then Michigan where he already has the experience of how to turn a team with talent around.

Wojo now has the talent and the experieince, so I am expecting things this year.

[Marcus92]

If Xavier can be top 20 program no excuses for MU not to be.

Can't disagree here. Xavier and Marquette share a lot of similarities. But the recent/current situations are different.

Xavier has had remarkable coaching continuity. Chris Mack was an assistant to former head coach Sean Miller. And Miller was an assistant to former head coach Thad Matta. That's a 15-year tradition of smooth transition in leadership and coaching style.

As Tom Crean's assistant, Buzz Williams benefited from the same smooth transition. But when Buzz left, the contrast could not be more stark. He took his assistant coaches and most of his recruits with him. Todd Mayo decided to go pro. Burton and Dawson transferred. If Wojo hadn't landed Carlino as a graduate transfer, Marquette would have had just 7 scholarship players on the roster.

That situation in no way describes Xavier (or any top 20 program).

So now we're hopefully back on track and building again. This season and the next will tell a lot about whether Wojo can get us there — and how long it will take.

[GGGG]

Another key difference:

The one thing Hoke could do is recruit and left Harbaugh pretty loaded at Michigan.  Hoke recruited the quarterback, top three receivers and arguably their best overall player (Peppers).  Wojo was left with some decent talent, but nowhere near what Harbaugh was left with.

[Marcus92]

Harbaugh took over Hoke's team that had a losing season and turned it around immediately. I would say that demonstrates how a coach can make all the difference.

The point is valid. (Fr Davitt would agree.)

I don't dispute that a coach can make all the difference — just the choice of Harbaugh (a highly experienced head coach at both the college and pro level) to compare with Wojo (a first-time college head coach).

[Goose]

Marcus

You are right on the coaching continuity at Xavier. Why can't that happen at MU? I never understand the folks that make excuses or have lower standards for the program. MU needs a successful product on the court for many reasons and wasted seasons should not be accepted or excused.

[GGGG]

Xavier started their turnaround as a program under Pete Gillen, who took over in 1985.  Then they hired his former assistant, Skip Prosser.  When Prosser left, they hired Thad Matta...replaced him with his assistant Sean Miller...replaced him with his assistant Chris Mack.

So since the 1980s, they really have only hired one outside coach (Matta).  During the same timeframe, Marquette has hired Bob Dukiet, Kevin O'Neill, Mike Deanne, Tom Crean, Buzz Williams and Wojo.

So five of the six guys hired were from outside the program.  The only one hired from inside was Buzz, and he was only an assistant for one year.  And he clearly had the most success of the six of them.  Hard to get continuity when you are constantly hiring someone completely new to the University.

[Marcus92]

Marcus

You are right on the coaching continuity at Xavier. Why can't that happen at MU? I never understand the folks that make excuses or have lower standards for the program. MU needs a successful product on the court for many reasons and wasted seasons should not be accepted or excused.

I don't make excuses. And I ask myself the exact same question: Why can't that happen at MU?

I actually don't blame Buzz Williams. Ultimately, the responsibility lies with Marquette. The university sets the tone and the direction, deciding who are the right people to have at each key position — from the president and athletic director down to the head coach. And the powers that be have made a number of poor decisions in this regard.

The past few seasons have been tough as a fan. But let's be honest. Unless you're a trustee, your influence on the program is limited to buying season tickets, attending games and watching them on TV, contributing to the Blue & Gold Fund and talking about MU basketball. Or not. Beyond that, the rest is out of our control.

Back to your original question, why stop at comparing ourselves to Xavier? Until last season, Villanova's most recent national championship was 1985 — 30 years ago. Nova has gone through some ups and downs since Rollie Massimino. But they're proof that it can be done today by a private school outside a power football conference.

I think it's just going to take some time. Jay Wright is entering his 16th year at Nova. I'm hopeful we're on the right track with Wojo. I like what I've seen so far.

[BM1090]

Marcus

You are right on the coaching continuity at Xavier. Why can't that happen at MU? I never understand the folks that make excuses or have lower standards for the program. MU needs a successful product on the court for many reasons and wasted seasons should not be accepted or excused.

It SHOULD happen at MU. I think that's fair. But it didn't, and we hired from outside and lost a ton of players and the ones that were left over weren't very good. So, I guess I just don't see how these last two years are Wojo's fault or how we failed to meet expectations last year.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I wonder if the decline of the program from Al to Hank and from Hank to Majerus influenced Marquette to hire from the outside. Just a random musing

[Goose]

Tamu

When Rick left it was middle of summer and between rock and hard place. That said, I do not believe the brass ever had solid plan in place for the loss of any coach since Al. Basketball has been taken by granted by many within the school and the decision making has reflected that. The best hires since Rick happened because intelligent basketball backers made them happen. Hiring of KO and TC happened because of outside influence.

[wadesworld]

Tamu

When Rick left it was middle of summer and between rock and hard place. That said, I do not believe the brass ever had solid plan in place for the loss of any coach since Al. Basketball has been taken by granted by many within the school and the decision making has reflected that. The best hires since Rick happened because intelligent basketball backers made them happen. Hiring of KO and TC happened because of outside influence.

There was a very large outside influence in getting Wojo to Marquette.

[muwarrior69]

Even Jay Wright struggled at Hofstra and Nova his first 3 seasons. If Wojo makes the post season (NCAA/NIT) this year that will be progress.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/jay-wright-1.html

[4everwarriors]

If Xavier can be top 20 program no excuses for MU not to be.

No one can dispute this, ai na?

[Goose]

Wade

You are correct, just not by basketball people. TC and KO were picked and chased by folks that know the game. They picked a target and brought it home.

[bilsu]

Even Jay Wright struggled at Hofstra and Nova his first 3 seasons. If Wojo makes the post season (NCAA/NIT) this year that will be progress.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/jay-wright-1.html

It was not that long ago that fans were questioning Coach K's ability. He had a few seasons in a row where Duke was not faring well in the NCAA. Now he seems to be on a roll again. Even the best can fall below fans' expectations.

[brewcity77]

As Tom Crean's assistant, Buzz Williams benefited from the same smooth transition. But when Buzz left, the contrast could not be more stark. He took his assistant coaches and most of his recruits with him. Todd Mayo decided to go pro. Burton and Dawson transferred. If Wojo hadn't landed Carlino as a graduate transfer, Marquette would have had just 7 scholarship players on the roster.

I'd actually say the Buzz transition wasn't that smooth either. Christopherson and Mbakwe both transferred out. Buzz ran off Acker (before begging him to return) and tried his damndest to run Cubillan off as well. After losing four starters in 2009, he began the cycle of trying to fill holes with JUCOs. While that succeeded and allowed him to accelerate the program's ascension, it definitely didn't create harmony within Marquette.

Year One for Buzz was a fairly smooth transition, despite losing two players that would go on to stardom elsewhere, but after that the program was largely held together with Krazy Glue and duct tape and somehow Buzz kept it running.

[wadesworld]

Wade

You are correct, just not by basketball people. TC and KO were picked and chased by folks that know the game. They picked a target and brought it home.

When Shaka failed, Doc pushed hard for Wojo.  Doc is definitely a basketball person.

[Disco Hippie]

On the micro level, I want to see Wojo's teams consistently win the games that they're supposed to win and steal a few games against more talented competition (with more tenured coaches).

Um....How about beating the Badgers in Madison and beating Top 10 ranked Providence not once but twice last season?  For the record, I voted for #2.....get back to the NCAA this year.   Even if we don't get there, and there's a good chance we won't, I'm still not ready to write Wojo off as a failure.  I think he needs another year at least.  That said, I'm optimistic we'll be solidly on the bubble come March and even if we don't end up making the cut, that's still a huge improvement from 24 months ago when we only had 8 scholarship players.  Wojo was hired for a gut renovation and unfortunately those take time.  Why anyone thought having Hank on our roster last year should have almost automatically made us a tournament team I'll never know.  Almost every year in the NBA draft there's a top 20 pick from a college team that didn't play in the post season, or a Norfolk St. type team that isn't even a mid major.  I'm optimistic Wojo knows what he's doing, and I for one, am really routing for him to be back in Raliegh Durham 6 or 7 years from now because the only way that happens is if he does one hell of a job for us!

[Goose]

Wade

I have a great deal of respect and I like Doc a lot. No doubt he is a big time basketball guy. That said, I do not believe he puts his heart into the help he provides in helping recruit a coach. He goes with BOT guy and then works the guy somewhat. Trust me, Doc did not need to do any heavy lifting in the Wojo recruitment.

Again, big time respect for Doc but aside from being big time name alum I am not sure how much help he brings. Wish he could have landed Shaka and I might be singing different tune.

[muwarrior69]

Um....How about beating the Badgers in Madison and beating Top 10 ranked Providence not once but twice last season?  For the record, I voted for #2.....get back to the NCAA this year.   Even if we don't get there, and there's a good chance we won't, I'm still not ready to write Wojo off as a failure.  I think he needs another year at least.  That said, I'm optimistic we'll be solidly on the bubble come March and even if we don't end up making the cut, that's still a huge improvement from 24 months ago when we only had 8 scholarship players. Wojo was hired for a gut renovation and unfortunately those take time.  Why anyone thought having Hank on our roster last year should have almost automatically made us a tournament team I'll never know.  Almost every year in the NBA draft there's a top 20 pick from a college team that didn't play in the post season, or a Norfolk St. type team that isn't even a mid major.  I'm optimistic Wojo knows what he's doing, and I for one, am really routing for him to be back in Raliegh Durham 6 or 7 years from now because the only way that happens is if he does one hell of a job for us!

When was the last time we had 13 scholarship players, not counting walk-ons who given one?

[Brewtown Andy]

When was the last time we had 13 scholarship players, not counting walk-ons who given one?

Depending on your views of Jake Thomas, Buzz's final year.

Before that, Crean's final year.  There's a lot of 12 player years in there, FWIW

[MU82]

If it had been a choice, I would have voted:

None of the above.

What will it take to convince me about Wojo as a coach? Well, I'm already convinced; I think he's a good coach with the potential to be a very good to excellent one.

Although I consider myself as big a Marquette fan as anybody, I think I look at things a little differently from many here.

First, it's just a game. I want to win. I'm wearing Marquette garb as I sit at my computer right now. I watch every game on TV and pay some pretty big bucks to attend some road games every year. Looking forward to the game at Georgia next month, and I'll cheer my arse off as I wear my blue and gold amidst all those red-and-black-clad fans. Nevertheless, my personal pride and self-worth are not based on the success or failure of a college basketball program. I didn't hide the fact that I was a Marquette alum when we struggled in Wojo's first season.

Also, I'm an optimistic guy who starts from a point of positivism. So I already think Wojo has done a fine job as a recruiter and I already think his game coaching has improved and I already think his team show significant progress last season. Things can get better, to be sure - that is true for every coach but one every single season. (Heck, I am in my fourth season as a middle-school coach and we won the first championship in school history last season, but I still expect improvement out of myself.)

For me, the better question would have been, "What it would take to convince you that Wojo will NOT succeed," because I already think he is succeeding and I firmly believe he will continue to do so.

Have a great day, everybody!

[bilsu]

When was the last time we had 13 scholarship players, not counting walk-ons who given one?

I think Buzz generally used all 13 scholarships. He would always take a flyer on some player. I rather not use the last scholarship on a flyer. So far Wojo has avoided that and I hope that continues.

[bilsu]

Xavier started their turnaround as a program under Pete Gillen, who took over in 1985.  Then they hired his former assistant, Skip Prosser.  When Prosser left, they hired Thad Matta...replaced him with his assistant Sean Miller...replaced him with his assistant Chris Mack.

So since the 1980s, they really have only hired one outside coach (Matta).  During the same timeframe, Marquette has hired Bob Dukiet, Kevin O'Neill, Mike Deanne, Tom Crean, Buzz Williams and Wojo.

So five of the six guys hired were from outside the program.  The only one hired from inside was Buzz, and he was only an assistant for one year.  And he clearly had the most success of the six of them.  Hard to get continuity when you are constantly hiring someone completely new to the University.

Part of this has to do with Dukiet and Deane being fired. Even Buzz may of been pushed out. Generally, you would not hire the assistants of coaches you fire.

[GGGG]

Part of this has to do with Dukiet and Deane being fired. Even Buzz may of been pushed out. Generally, you would not hire the assistants of coaches you fire.

Oh I agree.  And there wasn't really a natural candidate when O'Neill left either.

But that's why programs like Butler and Xavier have been successful.