If the Big 12 expansion raids the AAC to free UConn, would you...

[GGGG]

Why would the AAC do that?

[forgetful]

Why would the AAC do that?

If Memphis, Houston and Cincinnati all leave, the core of the conference, especially in football are all gone.  They have few options. 

UCONN, Temple and SMU are going to be looking to jump ship.  Adding teams like UAB, Charlotte and La Tech for all sports isn't going to make them feel warm and fuzzy.  Their athletic budgets are already losing in the $10-30M a year range.

Turing the conference into a football only conference would keep those teams in for football and wouldn't affect the TV contract much.  Separating out the non-revenue sports into different leagues would save a bundle on travel costs.  It may be the only way to save a conference.

[Herman Cain]

If Memphis, Houston and Cincinnati all leave, the core of the conference, especially in football are all gone.  They have few options. 

UCONN, Temple and SMU are going to be looking to jump ship.  Adding teams like UAB, Charlotte and La Tech for all sports isn't going to make them feel warm and fuzzy.  Their athletic budgets are already losing in the $10-30M a year range.

Turing the conference into a football only conference would keep those teams in for football and wouldn't affect the TV contract much.  Separating out the non-revenue sports into different leagues would save a bundle on travel costs.  It may be the only way to save a conference.

In the short run the AAC is going to make some good money from this. They will get exit fees from their departing members as well as retain any NCAA units they have accumulated. The AAC football tv contract is horrible so this is real money divided among the 8 remaining schools.

Going forward , the league still has a somewhat weak tie in to the New Years day bowls, so their is some value in keeping the league intact at least for football purposes. From the standpoint of U Conn the remaining basketball league will be weak enough that they are almost guaranteed an NCAA bid automatic bid each year.

Then U Conn will just sit and have to wait for the ACC expansion which will eventually come.

My sources at ESPN who are involved in the ACC Network tell me it is just a question of time for U Conn .

[GGGG]

If Memphis, Houston and Cincinnati all leave, the core of the conference, especially in football are all gone.  They have few options. 

UCONN, Temple and SMU are going to be looking to jump ship.  Adding teams like UAB, Charlotte and La Tech for all sports isn't going to make them feel warm and fuzzy.  Their athletic budgets are already losing in the $10-30M a year range.

Turing the conference into a football only conference would keep those teams in for football and wouldn't affect the TV contract much.  Separating out the non-revenue sports into different leagues would save a bundle on travel costs.  It may be the only way to save a conference.

But they can't expand as a football only conference. UAB et al play in conferences that currently sponsor football. Why would CUSA let them leave for football and keep the other sports there? 

The AAC has to stick as all sports because it dies otherwise.

[Dawson Rental]

What a difficult call for UConn.  They have the best women's basketball program in the country.  They have one of the best mens programs.  They've made a large investment in football.  Yet, the quality of the conference that they are in regularly declines due to members getting poached, but they always seem to be left behind.  All while they continue to lose big money every year on football holding out for that G5 invite.  If they don't get into a G5 conference soon, the basketball programs will both inevitably decline due to quality of competition issues, and rebuilding the programs will be much more difficult than keeping them at the top would have been.

If the ACC really wants them at any point they would be smart to add them ASAP before the quality of UConn's brand deteriorates.

[GGGG]

A more likely scenario. Uconn and Temple go to the BE for all sports and retain AAC membership as football affiliates. (Similar to Hawaii's relationship with the Mountain West and having its other sports in the Big West.). The AAC can then add members for all sports that are more geographically a match.

I don't see Uconn to the ACC as inevitable in any way. Maybe 20 years down the road, but would they even be the top candidate now if the ACC needed someone?  I'm not sure about that.

And finally, the foresight of the basketball schools to break away from that AAC mess should be noted. And the schools that were supposedly reluctant are likely breathing a sigh of relief.

[Dawson Rental]

I'm not in the purist camp that would deny Big East membership to any school with FBS football, so I'd be good with Temple and UConn joining.  Two out of twelve members having FBS football won't create a problem with football being the main consideration for many league decisions which was the problem for the basketball only schools in the old Big East. 

Nor would the idea that we would be allowing in members who might some day leave cause me constant anxiety, as long as such a move isn't inevitable at the time that they join.  UConn would do a lot to build up the Big East's brand in both mens and womens basketball.  I'm sure Fox would see their addition as a big plus. 

It's a low risk to take for a league known to possess a rock solid core membership of ten.  The relative pluses or minuses of adding Temple, I'll leave to those more knowledgeable.
 
Already being a member of the Big East could make it easier for a school like UConn or Temple to make the decision down the road to downgrade their football programs to FCS when the realities of not being able to compete with the big boys financially on the pittance of TV revenue for football that a league like the AAC can get becomes apparent.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Villanova will block any expansion that includes Temple. They are never coming for basketball.

[forgetful]

A more likely scenario. Uconn and Temple go to the BE for all sports and retain AAC membership as football affiliates. (Similar to Hawaii's relationship with the Mountain West and having its other sports in the Big West.). The AAC can then add members for all sports that are more geographically a match.

I don't see Uconn to the ACC as inevitable in any way. Maybe 20 years down the road, but would they even be the top candidate now if the ACC needed someone?  I'm not sure about that.

And finally, the foresight of the basketball schools to break away from that AAC mess should be noted. And the schools that were supposedly reluctant are likely breathing a sigh of relief.

This is essentially the same thing I said, except to rebrand a new conference for all sports and leave AAC football only to avoid the awkwardness of partial members.  Oh and I was talking about the CUSA teams coming for all sports.

[Marcus92]

I just don't see UConn back in the Big East under any circumstances, even if the AAC completely dissolves.

I try to think about this like a university president, not like a fan. As a state school, UConn has different priorities than all the current schools of the Big East. It's simply a poor institutional fit. UConn also wouldn't expand the Big East into new markets (St. John's already covers NY) or recruiting territory. Then there's the whole football issue, which administrators have shown zero signs of changing their minds about.

True, UConn has a great basketball program and history with the Big East. But St. Louis (private university in a Top 20 market) looks like a far better bet to me.

After that, I'm not sure there's another strong contender. Dayton's okay, but doesn't add much. Davidson (a well-regarded private school located in the Charlotte, NC market) could even be a possibility. But unless there's a clear economic benefit to expansion, the Big East might just stay where it's at for the foreseeable future.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I just don't see UConn back in the Big East under any circumstances, even if the AAC completely dissolves.

I try to think about this like a university president, not like a fan. As a state school, UConn has different priorities than all the current schools of the Big East. It's simply a poor institutional fit. UConn also wouldn't expand the Big East into new markets (St. John's already covers NY) or recruiting territory. Then there's the whole football issue, which administrators have shown zero signs of changing their minds about.

True, UConn has a great basketball program and history with the Big East. But St. Louis (private university in a Top 20 market) looks like a far better bet to me.

After that, I'm not sure there's another strong contender. Dayton's okay, but doesn't add much. Davidson (a well-regarded private school located in the Charlotte, NC market) could even be a possibility. But unless there's a clear economic benefit to expansion, the Big East might just stay where it's at for the foreseeable future.

Are you suggesting that St. Louis, a perennial Atlantic 10 cellar dweller, would add more to the Big East than UConn, a bona fide basketball blue blood?

[Marcus92]

Are you suggesting that St. Louis, a perennial Atlantic 10 cellar dweller, would add more to the Big East than UConn, a bona fide basketball blue blood?

I miss Marquette playing UConn. Having the Huskies on the conference schedule would be good for any basketball program in the Big East.

But fans, coaches and athletic directors aren't the ones making the decision for expansion. It's the university presidents. (When the C7 broke away, some ADs were left completely out of the loop.) And while I don't pretend to know for certain what the factors are in their decision-making process, I can go by what they've said publicly and what they've done.

Expansion is obviously driven by many factors. Geography, TV markets, broadcast rights, recruiting, academics, program history, and fan base are all important considerations. But the Big East presidents have talked repeatedly about the shared focus of the conference. Look at everything that schools in the conference have in common. Private schools, basketball-centric, based in major metro markets. As a state school that's spent the past 20 years betting its future on football, UConn simply isn't a good fit.

I'm not part of the expansion discussions. I have zero inside knowledge. Just an opinion based on what I've seen, heard and read over the past 2-1/2 years.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Are you suggesting that St. Louis, a perennial Atlantic 10 cellar dweller, would add more to the Big East than UConn, a bona fide basketball blue blood?

UConn is infinitely more valuable in basketball than Saint Louis.  However, Saint Louis, as a like-minded institution, as an urban city market, as an athletic program that doesn't sponsor FBS football and places basketball first, is a better fit for the current configuration of the Big East. 

Every move in realignment from 2010-2013 was based on institutional and market fit for the new conference.  Colorado and Utah, both large state universities, brought not only strong academics, but large athletic budgets (namely football) and new markets for the PAC-10 to gain from.  The SEC added Texas A&M and Missouri for the same reasons.  The B1G added Rutgers, Maryland and Nebraska for the same reasons.  The Big East re-formed as a a conference based on Private/Catholic universities in major cities without FBS football and a clear focus on basketball.  UConn doesn't fit that (they now spend more on football alone than all other programs combined). 

The Big East does not need UConn.  If they were added, they would be counting down the days until they got to leave (again).  They don't want to be here, period (check out the Boneyard - they will tell you).  It would be a monumental mismatch of epic proportions.  The ten schools we have all want to be here and are committed to making the Big East the best conference it can be.  UConn would never do that. 

Let UConn get left behind in the American/Conference USA 2.0 and watch their athletic programs (namely basketball) weaken over time by playing Tulane, East Carolina, UCF, and USF.  They need the Big East a whole lot more than the Big East needing them.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

University Presidents do care about institutional fit. Its about #27 on their list of things they care about when considering conference realignment. If people think that the Big East would hesitate for a second to add UConn because they are a public school they are kidding themselves. And if they think St. Louis would get added because they are a private school they are kidding themselves.

When president's use the phrase "like minded institution" it does not mean public or private. It is code for "willing to invest a lot of money in their athletics' program." UConn is much more like minded than St. Louis will ever be.

[Marcus92]

One more thought regarding St. Louis.

They clearly have a lot to offer when it comes to institutional fit (private Jesuit university), TV market and academics. I'm confident they were considered by the C7 alongside Creighton, Butler and Xavier.

The difference seems to the university's commitment to the basketball program. St. Louis has made just 3 NCAA tournament appearances since the 2000-01 season — versus 9, 10, and 14 for Creighton, Butler and Xavier, respectively.

With a better record on the court, St. Louis might have even gotten the nod over Creighton. Until that changes, I don't see the Big East extending an invite.

[GoldenWarrior11]

University Presidents do care about institutional fit. Its about #27 on their list of things they care about when considering conference realignment. If people think that the Big East would hesitate for a second to add UConn because they are a public school they are kidding themselves. And if they think St. Louis would get added because they are a private school they are kidding themselves.

When president's use the phrase "like minded institution" it does not mean public or private. It is code for "willing to invest a lot of money in their athletics' program." UConn is much more like minded than St. Louis will ever be.

I get what you are saying, TAMU.  However, there's a reason why VCU - which was coming off a Final Four and three consecutive NCAA tournaments, one of the hottest young coaches in the country (Shaka Smart), a major renovation of their basketball arena ($25 million), a strong market (Richmond), and no desire to add FBS football - was not added in 2013 to the Big East, and that is because they are a public university. 

There's also a reason they extended their footprint all the way to Omaha, Nebraska.  Creighton, unlike VCU - and has never gotten to a Final Four, and has not been to a Sweet 16 in over 40 years - is a like-minded institution.  Institution is a very big deal to university presidents.  Conferences are basically elite clubs where current members choose who gets into the clubhouse.   

Institution is the very reason why Wichita State will never be considered for the Big East (despite basketball success and budget), and why schools like Saint Louis, Dayton, Richmond and Davidson will all continue to be mentioned as potential expansion candidates for the Big East in the future. 

[Marcus92]

And if they think St. Louis would get added because they are a private school they are kidding themselves.

I only suggested that St. Louis might be one of the best prospects for expansion, based on a number of factors (institutional fit being just one of them). But obviously St. Louis falls short in one or more key criteria in the minds of the Big East university presidents — otherwise they'd be part of the conference today.

[GGGG]

I get what you are saying, TAMU.  However, there's a reason why VCU - which was coming off a Final Four and three consecutive NCAA tournaments, one of the hottest young coaches in the country (Shaka Smart), a major renovation of their basketball arena ($25 million), a strong market (Richmond), and no desire to add FBS football - was not added in 2013 to the Big East, and that is because they are a public university. 

There's also a reason they extended their footprint all the way to Omaha, Nebraska.  Creighton, unlike VCU - and has never gotten to a Final Four, and has not been to a Sweet 16 in over 40 years - is a like-minded institution.  Institution is a very big deal to university presidents.  Conferences are basically elite clubs where current members choose who gets into the clubhouse.   

Institution is the very reason why Wichita State will never be considered for the Big East (despite basketball success and budget), and why schools like Saint Louis, Dayton, Richmond and Davidson will all continue to be mentioned as potential expansion candidates for the Big East in the future.

It made perfect sense for the BE to choose the schools it decided upon when it formed.  Xavier and Butler were no brainers.  Creighton was a bit of an outlier but still a good fit.

That does not mean that when expansion time comes, those types of schools would be the best options.  Look at the B10.  Outside of Northwestern, they are made up of large, public universities.  But that didn't stop them from inviting Notre Dame despite the lack of AAU membership.

[forgetful]

I get what you are saying, TAMU.  However, there's a reason why VCU - which was coming off a Final Four and three consecutive NCAA tournaments, one of the hottest young coaches in the country (Shaka Smart), a major renovation of their basketball arena ($25 million), a strong market (Richmond), and no desire to add FBS football - was not added in 2013 to the Big East, and that is because they are a public university. 

There's also a reason they extended their footprint all the way to Omaha, Nebraska.  Creighton, unlike VCU - and has never gotten to a Final Four, and has not been to a Sweet 16 in over 40 years - is a like-minded institution.  Institution is a very big deal to university presidents.  Conferences are basically elite clubs where current members choose who gets into the clubhouse.   

Institution is the very reason why Wichita State will never be considered for the Big East (despite basketball success and budget), and why schools like Saint Louis, Dayton, Richmond and Davidson will all continue to be mentioned as potential expansion candidates for the Big East in the future.

VCU was out because of Georgetown.  Georgetown did and always will veto VCU.  Same with Nova/Temple.

Creighton was chosen, because MU and Georgetown made the push for them.  VCU was not excluded because of being a public school.  Richmond will also never get in for the same reason.

UCONN, no one would veto. 

[Herman Cain]

UConn is infinitely more valuable in basketball than Saint Louis.  However, Saint Louis, as a like-minded institution, as an urban city market, as an athletic program that doesn't sponsor FBS football and places basketball first, is a better fit for the current configuration of the Big East. 

Every move in realignment from 2010-2013 was based on institutional and market fit for the new conference.  Colorado and Utah, both large state universities, brought not only strong academics, but large athletic budgets (namely football) and new markets for the PAC-10 to gain from.  The SEC added Texas A&M and Missouri for the same reasons.  The B1G added Rutgers, Maryland and Nebraska for the same reasons.  The Big East re-formed as a a conference based on Private/Catholic universities in major cities without FBS football and a clear focus on basketball.  UConn doesn't fit that (they now spend more on football alone than all other programs combined). 

The Big East does not need UConn.  If they were added, they would be counting down the days until they got to leave (again).  They don't want to be here, period (check out the Boneyard - they will tell you).  It would be a monumental mismatch of epic proportions.  The ten schools we have all want to be here and are committed to making the Big East the best conference it can be.  UConn would never do that. 

Let UConn get left behind in the American/Conference USA 2.0 and watch their athletic programs (namely basketball) weaken over time by playing Tulane, East Carolina, UCF, and USF.  They need the Big East a whole lot more than the Big East needing them.

These are all excellent points and I would also add when the C7 broke away, U Conn drove an extremely hard bargain and made a ton of money. There is absolutely no reason and no support by University Presidents for the Big East to show them any mercy now.  If U Conn wants back it would have to be on our terms. They would need to execute an agreement to stay for a minimum of 20 years with a mid 8 figure  liquidated damages clause in the event they tried to leave and  they need to agree to move football to FCS during that entire time period.

[GoldenWarrior11]

It made perfect sense for the BE to choose the schools it decided upon when it formed.  Xavier and Butler were no brainers.  Creighton was a bit of an outlier but still a good fit.

That does not mean that when expansion time comes, those types of schools would be the best options.  Look at the B10.  Outside of Northwestern, they are made up of large, public universities.  But that didn't stop them from inviting Notre Dame despite the lack of AAU membership.

Northwestern was a founding member of the B1G, and Notre Dame is an exception due to their national football brand.

[Marcus92]

From UConn AD David Benedict:
"UConn wants to compete at the highest level on a national basis. That is where we have been and that is where we want to remain. The reality is that the best way to accomplish that is to be a member of a Power Five conference. All of UConn Nation, from everyone at the school to fans and alumni, have to always be working toward that."

"At this point in time the Power Five conferences certainly are looked to as the most competitive conferences. They derive the most money from their multi-media agreements, their television agreements. And therefore, certainly we aspire to be in those conferences and compete at that level."

"This is a Power Five program all day, every day."

From UConn president Susan Herbst:
"We are strong, no matter our league. But if the Power Five is looking for a traditional flagship university, grounded in the liberal arts and research, UConn Nation will be an exuberant and loyal partner. I don't believe that there is another candidate for a Power Five league with our first-rate academic standing, international reach and outstanding faculty."

Realistic or not, UConn's administration believes that it belongs in a Power Five conference alongside schools like Texas, Michigan and Virginia — "flagship" state universities, not Villanova or Georgetown. UConn has no desire to rejoin the Big East. UConn's commitment to football is part of a strategy outlined in 1997 and endorsed by the governor, trustees and students. UConn is not about to change course, even if they aren't part of the Big 12's expansion plans. They're all in.

If there's any evidence contrary to the above, I'd like to see it.

http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-huskies/hc-uconn-big-12-jacobs-column-0724-20160723-column.html

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/17126636/uconn-huskies-ad-preparing-pitch-waiting-hear-big-12-expansion

http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/benedict-says-uconn-s-caliber-of-play-at-power-five-level-030116

http://advance.uconn.edu/1997/971020/10209702.htm

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I get what you are saying, TAMU.  However, there's a reason why VCU - which was coming off a Final Four and three consecutive NCAA tournaments, one of the hottest young coaches in the country (Shaka Smart), a major renovation of their basketball arena ($25 million), a strong market (Richmond), and no desire to add FBS football - was not added in 2013 to the Big East, and that is because they are a public university. 

There's also a reason they extended their footprint all the way to Omaha, Nebraska.  Creighton, unlike VCU - and has never gotten to a Final Four, and has not been to a Sweet 16 in over 40 years - is a like-minded institution.  Institution is a very big deal to university presidents.  Conferences are basically elite clubs where current members choose who gets into the clubhouse.   

Institution is the very reason why Wichita State will never be considered for the Big East (despite basketball success and budget), and why schools like Saint Louis, Dayton, Richmond and Davidson will all continue to be mentioned as potential expansion candidates for the Big East in the future.

As others have said, VCU not making the cut had nothing to do with it being a public school. It was vetoed early on and repeatedly by Georgetown who didn't want the competition in their backyard. Plus, Xavier and Butler were obvious adds and Creighton brought a ton to table.

I think people are forgetting two things:

1. Realignment is ALWAYS about $$$$, nothing else matters.
2. UConn is basketball royalty.

UConn would be a no brainer addition. They are a top 8 all time basketball program. If we want to be the premier basketball league again, we need to add programs in that category. We currently have zero. The Big East, University Presidents, and Fox all want to expand and add programs that move the needle. UConn moves the needle in a way that no other realistic expansion option does.

All that being said, don't see it happening yet. UConn is still set on chasing the dream of football money. But that is there decision not ours. The door to the Big East is wide open if UConn ever decides to walk through it.

[GGGG]

Northwestern was a founding member of the B1G, and Notre Dame is an exception due to their national football brand.

You are making my point.  UConn is pretty much a "national basketball brand." 

[Marcus92]

All that being said, don't see it happening yet. UConn is still set on chasing the dream of football money.

This is all that matters right now.

UConn didn't give up on football in 2005 when Miami, Boston College and Virginia Tech left the Big East for the ACC. Or in 2011 when Pittsburgh, Syracuse and West Virginia left. Or in 2012 when Rutgers left. Or in 2013 when the C7 left.

Each of those moves dimmed UConn's prospects for joining the ranks of college football's elite. Yet it made no difference. UConn believes in football. UConn believes they'll follow the football rainbow to a big pot of gold. Everybody from the university president on down believes because they can't accept the alternative — that UConn doesn't belong with the big boys as a "flagship" institution.

We can speculate, wish and hope about the possibility of UConn coming back to the Big East. But I see no reason to believe UConn will give up on football if the Big 12 doesn't extend an invite — or if the AAC falls apart.