If the Big 12 expansion raids the AAC to free UConn, would you...

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

2.7 Million - I think that's just the TV money from the AAC?

The men's & women's team have separate contracts with SNY.  The women make $1.2mil from SNY and I'm sure the men's deal is even higher.

Is that deal with SNY just for basketball? Or is football in on that too? Because if its just basketball, it furthers the point that basketball actually makes more money for the Huskies than football.

[mu03eng]

I hear this all the time, but is it actually true for UConn? Football money mostly comes from TV contracts. As an AAC member, UConn is making 2.7 Million a year (I think that's right). Marquette is making 4 million a year without football. Where does UConn football make enough money to make up for the 1.3 million difference in TV contracts? Not to mention that Football comes with millions more in costs than basketball does. Also not to mention that UConn basketball adds to the prestige of the university, attractiveness to students, and donations by alumni more than football does.

I get that if they got into a P5 conference, football would make them millions. But until they get there....

This is my point, if they come to the Big East, they will still be chasing the P5 football money and it will lead UConn wherever it wants and that will likely be contrary to what is in the best interests of the other schools in the Big East.

[mu03eng]

What extra TV Channel are these rabid UConn fans paying for? The Big 12 doesn't have a network and have publicly said that they have no plans to get one. Everyone already has ESPN and Fox. No one's paying for anything extra. In the Big 12's case it is about what programs will drive eyeballs to the screen and what programs will help them get a postseason bid. Of the candidates, BYU and Cincy win those categories in a landslide. UConn comes in last. Now UConn does come in first for basketball, but I don't think that's high on the B12's checklist.

Now if the B12 takes 4, I could see UConn cobbling enough together to be attractive enough to be the 4th team. But Houston, Memphis, UCF, Boise State, and Colorado State all have better football programs and bigger football fan bases. That is a lot for the Huskies to overcome.

Meanwhile, I'm just happy to be at the top of the food chain in the basketball world.

Doesn't UConn get them access to NYC eyeballs?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Is that deal with SNY just for basketball? Or is football in on that too? Because if its just basketball, it furthers the point that basketball actually makes more money for the Huskies than football.

I'm pretty sure they have 3 separate deals for FB, MBB & WBB.  They get coach's shows and games televised not contractually on somewhere else.

[Atticus]

So BE leadership is perfectly ok with UConn parking two non-revenue generating sports in the conference but might not be ok with parking UConns cash cow in the conference?

Thats some wack logic.

Hey maybe we can add their ping pong team...so long as their two basketball teams stay away.

Im pretty sure nova, gu, shu, prov, and sju would like having uconn back in the conference. Their fanbase travels around the northeast well and would help with attendance.

And FS1 would prob like to steal a property away from espn.

Ultimately, i think they end up in the B12 until their tv contract expires.

[GGGG]

I bet they remain in the AAC.  I think UConn would be pretty far down the B12's list.

[Atticus]

I bet they remain in the AAC.  I think UConn would be pretty far down the B12's list.

G5s positioning themselves for a P5 invite have absolutely no leverage. Its already being assumed that the new members will get a small fraction of the pro-rata payout. If the B12 offers 8M per year for the new schools, all of them will jump.

UConn will bend over and agree to play home football games against OU and UT in either the Meadowlands, Yankee Stadium, or Foxboro.

If the B12 asks Uconn to play their home basketball game against KU in MSG, UConn will agree.

If the B12 asks the Chancellor of UConn to grab her ankles, she will.

For similar reasons, I like Cincy, too. They will agree to play OU and UT at Paul Brown Stadium.

Houston will get in in the same fashion VTech got into the ACC. Politics will win out eventually.

Number 4 is up for grabs.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Doesn't UConn get them access to NYC eyeballs?

I'm not an expert in this, so someone correct me if I'm wrong (definitely possible). For conferences like the Big 10, SEC, and soon the ACC (missed on that prediction) who have their own networks, new markets are more important because of the deals they can strike to get their networks into local tv packages. The best example of this is B1G adding Rutgers and Maryland and then getting the B1G network onto basic cable for that whole part of the east coast. To a lesser extent the Big East benefits from new TV markets because it helps Fox leverage FS1 and FS2.

For a conference like the B12, that doesn't have its own network and whose rights are owned by networks that everyone already has, its less about new markets and more about how many eyeballs you can get on the game. Sure there is some benefit to new markets because local advertisers spend money on the games. However, if I'm an advertiser in NYC, I'm going to spend more money on Syracuse, St. John's, Notre Dame, and B1G teams than I am on UConn football. So yes, UConn gets you some NYC eyeballs, but I don't think its as many as you think.

So new markets are still a factor but the more important question is "if UConn is playing Kansas in football, will anybody be watching?"

[4everwarriors]

Crean sucks

[GoldenWarrior11]

Meanwhile, the clocks in Storrs read:

[forgetful]

Doesn't matter, it's raking in millions more for the school than basketball and therefore will always be the number one consideration.

UCONN's football program loses between $6-10M each year.  The basketball team brings in a profit.

Those football loses would be substantially higher if they didn't charge close to $1k in student fees for athletics each year per student (They charge $2800 total, about $1k of which is for athletics), much of which gets assigned as football revenue.

Football is a big loser for UCONN.

[GGGG]

UConn, and other schools, view football and sports in general as a marketing expense.  They get people to campus, rally community and alumni support, and provide exposure.  Viewing it as a straight profit or loss misses the point entirely.

The real question is if it is a legitimate marketing expense.  Or are there better ways to use that money.

[brewcity77]

UConn, and other schools, view football and sports in general as a marketing expense.  They get people to campus, rally community and alumni support, and provide exposure.  Viewing it as a straight profit or loss misses the point entirely.

The real question is if it is a legitimate marketing expense.  Or are there better ways to use that money.

And getting access to a P5 league would get them a share of a contract that would greatly offset those losses. Probably a large part of why they're so unwilling to give it up and so desperate to take that step up. The AAC is a huge loser for them.

[GGGG]

And getting access to a P5 league would get them a share of a contract that would greatly offset those losses. Probably a large part of why they're so unwilling to give it up and so desperate to take that step up. The AAC is a huge loser for them.

Yet schools continue to add the sport.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next 10-15 years. 

[brewcity77]

Yet schools continue to add the sport.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next 10-15 years.

Has the feel of a bubble that has to burst. I get that there's huge money in the bowl games and current ratings, but there's a clear consolidation effort by the P5 to keep as much of that money as possible for themselves. At some point, there will either be less eyeballs, or the eyeballs that are there will be focused on a smaller number of programs.

I get why UConn is so desperate for a big-time invite. Programs like that, even if they're losing money now, make sense. They see a golden carrot and have to chase. But the other schools that are currently adding, schools like Charlotte, Mercer, Kennesaw State, do they really think they'll be included when the big boys take seats away from the table?

[mu03eng]

Has the feel of a bubble that has to burst. I get that there's huge money in the bowl games and current ratings, but there's a clear consolidation effort by the P5 to keep as much of that money as possible for themselves. At some point, there will either be less eyeballs, or the eyeballs that are there will be focused on a smaller number of programs.

I get why UConn is so desperate for a big-time invite. Programs like that, even if they're losing money now, make sense. They see a golden carrot and have to chase. But the other schools that are currently adding, schools like Charlotte, Mercer, Kennesaw State, do they really think they'll be included when the big boys take seats away from the table?

I've been saying this for at least a year now. Live sports content is the biggest revenue generator in entertainment right now which is creating huge contracts for the P5 that UConn is trying to jump on. However, there are enough negative forces (concussions, negative PR, athletics/academic tensions, etc) with an inevitable things that go up must come down that make it feel like there is a bubble that's going to burst. I think we'll look back on the landscape 5-10 years from now and it will look very, very different.

And part of that believe forms my concern and why I want to stay as far away from football as possible in the Big East.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I'm not an expert in this, so someone correct me if I'm wrong (definitely possible). For conferences like the Big 10, SEC, and soon the ACC (missed on that prediction) who have their own networks, new markets are more important because of the deals they can strike to get their networks into local tv packages. The best example of this is B1G adding Rutgers and Maryland and then getting the B1G network onto basic cable for that whole part of the east coast. To a lesser extent the Big East benefits from new TV markets because it helps Fox leverage FS1 and FS2.

For a conference like the B12, that doesn't have its own network and whose rights are owned by networks that everyone already has, its less about new markets and more about how many eyeballs you can get on the game. Sure there is some benefit to new markets because local advertisers spend money on the games. However, if I'm an advertiser in NYC, I'm going to spend more money on Syracuse, St. John's, Notre Dame, and B1G teams than I am on UConn football. So yes, UConn gets you some NYC eyeballs, but I don't think its as many as you think.

So new markets are still a factor but the more important question is "if UConn is playing Kansas in football, will anybody be watching?"

If Rutgers is playing Indiana in football is anyone watching?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If Rutgers is playing Indiana in football is anyone watching?

It doesn't matter. The B1G has their own network. And because of the Rutgers addition they were able to strike a deal that put the B1G Network onto basic cable for the entire NYC metro area. That means even if zero people watch every person with cable in NYC is still paying for the B1G Network. Same isn't true for the B12. So Rutgers was an awful football addition but a huge money maker.

Also, more people are watching the Rutgers Indiana game than the UConn Kansas football game.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

It doesn't matter. The B1G has their own network. And because of the Rutgers addition they were able to strike a deal that put the B1G Network onto basic cable for the entire NYC metro area. That means even if zero people watch every person with cable in NYC is still paying for the B1G Network. Same isn't true for the B12. So Rutgers was an awful football addition but a huge money maker.

Also, more people are watching the Rutgers Indiana game than the UConn Kansas football game.

At this point, we're just going to have to wait 2-3 months to see where the Big12 goes.

[Mr. Nielsen]

If Rutgers is playing Indiana in football is anyone watching?

I guess it depends which network it's on. It will draw more than most regular season college basketball games. 57% of cbb games draws a 0.0 to 0.1 rating. Wash St/Rutgers on ESPNU in mid-day going up with games on ABC, CBS, etc had 461K.

[Benny B]

No reason the Big East couldn't do the same, and highly unlikely a program like UConn would have a negative net impact on the league.

Let's be honest...if non-con games were really that great and we really wanted as many of those "marbles" as we could get, everyone would be playing 10-14 game conference schedules. The reality is that you make your money in the conference season. That's the product you are selling to networks and those are the games where you generally know the strength of all your opponents. And the ACC wouldn't go to a 20-game schedule if they thought it was going to have a negative affect on the value of their basketball product.

As you're alluding... it's all money, and there's a very delicate balance between the money:

1) That the conference earns from TV revenue (i.e. contractual obligations) during conference play
2) That the individual schools earns from marginal ticket sales during conference play
3) That the conference (and individual schools) earns from NCAA Tournament shares.

The ACC can afford to go to 20 games because the bumps to #1 and #2 more than offset any effect to #3... let's remember that the ACC has a ton of schools, most of whom could be in the tournament in any given year.  They also have a fat, juicy TV contract that makes them less reliant on tourney shares.

The reality is that the Big East is highly reliant on tourney shares.  Our TV contract isn't that lucrative.  Attendance is declining overall.  The difference between perennially having 3 teams and 6 teams in the dance is quite significant, especially when one considers that for the Big East to accomplish that, it has to send 60% of it's members to the dance, whereas 6 teams from the ACC means 40%... that's why the Big East needs as many marbles as possible, because you have fewer "feeders" in the Big East (i.e. those who bring marbles in but don't dance) like Marquette and Georgetown last year than you have in the ACC... and as any of us frequenting the fishing thread will tell you, you're not going to land trophies unless you have a strong stock of feeders.

To be clear, I'm not advocating against adding UCONN as a 11th member... I'm simply saying that a 20-game conference season won't fly in the Big East.  If UCONN came home to the Big East, I'd rather keep the 18-game season than round-robin home-and-homes with everyone.

[Spotcheck Billy]

At this point, we're just going to have to wait 2-3 months to see where the Big12 goes.

I agree with this analysis.

[MU82]

I get why UConn is so desperate for a big-time invite. Programs like that, even if they're losing money now, make sense. They see a golden carrot and have to chase. But the other schools that are currently adding, schools like Charlotte, Mercer, Kennesaw State, do they really think they'll be included when the big boys take seats away from the table?

I live in Charlotte and read a lot about UNCC's sports. I still haven't quite figured out what the goal of their new football program is. They play in a nice, new stadium that is quite small but they struggle to fill its seats, and they never, ever, ever will be part of a P5 conference. I'm guessing the football program is losing money, but I confess I don't know for sure.

[Herman Cain]

And getting access to a P5 league would get them a share of a contract that would greatly offset those losses. Probably a large part of why they're so unwilling to give it up and so desperate to take that step up. The AAC is a huge loser for them.

This is a an article in the local paper that outlines some of the issues that U Conn is dealing with. Item 2 is of particular interest.
http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-huskies/hc-uconn-big-12-qa-0721-20160720-story.html

[source?]

Our TV contract isn't that lucrative. 

It's actually pretty close to on-par with the ACC. According to BC's athletic director the ACC makes 85% of its tv revenue from football. I imagine that's more than most P5 conferences since basketball is their bread and butter. In any event, the ACC's tv contact is for $347 million per year. Divided by the 14 full member schools gives a distribution of $24.8 million per school. 15% of 24.8 is $3.72 million. Our contract is for $4.1 million per school per year. ($500 million over 12 years divided by 10 schools). That's not even including the money they give to Notre Dame for their basketball games.

http://www.businessinsider.com/scandal-espn-told-acc-which-teams-to-take-from-big-east-conference-2011-10
http://www.syracuse.com/axeman/index.ssf/2016/05/acc_feeling_sense_of_urgency_for_network_partnership_with_espn.html   (Note that while the conference distributed $31.2 million to each school, that is not solely tv revenue)