What's your all-time Marquette team?

[Marcus92]

When the top 10 threads on MUScoop include topics such as pizza, lacrosse and Bo Ryan, it's time for a new list. So who would make your all-time Marquette team? Originally I wanted to do this as some sort of poll, but the format doesn't really fit very well (not enough options for voting).

Instead, simply post your 1st, 2nd and 3rd teams to this thread. That means 15 players total. I'll update the first post every so often to show who the collective leaders are — 5/3/1 points for 1st/2nd/3rd team, respectively — along with which Scoopers have contributed.

Below the first post, you'll find basic info on some of the top contenders by position. Caveats are many. I could find little on most players before 1965. And a number of players defy position. Was Don Kojis really a center at 6-5? Was Lazar? Feel free to dispute my categorization or vote however you want. There's no rule that your 1st team has to include 1 player from each position — that's just how I voted. And if you have info for a player who's been unfairly excluded, post it here.

Okay, here goes:

Results as of 6/16 (points in parentheses):
G Dwyane Wade (131)
C Jim Chones (128)
F Maurice Lucas (104)
F Bo Ellis (97)
G Butch Lee (90)
G Dean Meminger (81)
G George Thompson (47)
F Jae Crowder (35)
G Doc Rivers (34)
G Earl Tatum (27)
F Don Kojis (26)
G Travis Diener (23)
C Jerome Whitehead (18)
F Steve Novak (16)
F Lazar Hayward (15)
G Jerel McNeal (14)
G Sam Worthen (11)
F Larry McNeil (12)
C Jim McIlvane (10)
F Jimmy Butler (8)
C Robert Jackson (8)
G Darius Johnson-Odom (7)
G Wesley Matthews (7)
G Lloyd Walton (7)
G Dominic James (5)
F Henry Ellenson (4)
F Davante Gardner (4)
G Vander Blue (3)
F Damon Key (3)
G Tony Smith (3)
F Jamil Wilson (3)
G Tony Miller (2)
F Ron Curry (1)
C Amal McCaskill (1)
C Terry Rand (1)

Contributors:
4everwarriors, Bagpiping Boxer, bilsu, brandx, brewcity77, BrewCity83, CT Warrior, dgies9156, Dr. Blackheart, DUNKS45, Gato78, GooooMarquette, Goose, HoopsterBC, keefe, Lennys Tap, Marcus92, Marquette Fan In NY, MerrittsMustache, mileskishnish72, MU82, MuMark, muwar2003, nyg, PBRme, PTM, The Sultan of Sunshine, TAMU Eagle, warriorfred

My ballot:

MU All-Time, 1st team
PG Sam Worthen (5)
SG Dwyane Wade (5)
SF Jae Crowder (5)
PF Maurice Lucas (5)
C Jim Chones (5)

MU All-Time, 2nd team
PG Dean Meminger (3)
SG Butch Lee (3)
SF Lazar Hayward (3)
PF Bo Ellis (3)
C Jerome Whitehead (3)

MU All-Time, 3rd team
PG Tony Miller (1)
SG George Thompson (1)
SF Ron Curry (1)
PF Henry Ellenson (1)
C Jim McIlvane (1)

Seems impossible that Butch Lee, George Thompson or Bo Ellis could possibly come off the bench on any Marquette team. But I feel I made the right roster choices. Scary deep backcourt. The center position also looks very strong.

[Marcus92]

Point Guard
Travis Diener
6-1/175 | 2001-05
119 g, 1674 pts (14.1 ppg), 370 reb (3.1 rpg), 613 ast (5.2 apg)

Cordell Henry
5-10/160 | 1998-02
120 g, 1347 pts (11.2 ppg), 324 reb (2.7 rpg), 430 ast (3.6 apg)

Aaron Hutchins
5-10/175 | 1994-1998
122g, 1439 pts (11.8 ppg), 348 reb (2.9 rpg), 550 ast (4.5 apg)

Dominic James
5-11/175 | 2005-09
129 g, 1749 pts (13.6 ppg), 436 reb (3.4 rpg), 632 ast (4.9 apg)

Dean Meminger
6-0/175 | 1968-71
87 g, 1637 pts (18.8 ppg), 446 reb (5.1 rpg) 300 ast (3.4 apg)
1971 All American

Tony Miller
6-0/189 | 1991-95
123 g, 1027 pts (8.3 ppg), 561 reb (4.6 rpg), 956 ast (7.8 apg)

Glenn “Doc” Rivers
6-4/185 | 1980-83
89 g, 1234 pts (13.9 ppg), 292 reb (3.3 rpg), 409 ast (4.6 apg)

Tony Smith
6-3/185 | 1986-90
114 g, 1688 pts (14.8 ppg), 468 reb (4.1 rpg), 469 ast (4.1 apg)

Lloyd Walton
6-0/160 | 1973-76
87 g, 1006 pts (11.6 ppg), 222 reb (2.6 rpg), 480 ast (5.5 apg)

Sam Worthen
6-5/195 | 1978-80
56 g, 810 pts (14.5 ppg), 234 reb (4.2 rpg), 384 ast (6.9 apg)
1980 All American

[Marcus92]

Shooting Guard
Darius Johnson Odom
6-2/215 | 2009-12
105 g, 1649 pts (15.7 ppg), 321 reb (3.1 rpg), 262 ast (2.5 apg)

Butch Lee
6-0/185 | 1974-78
115 g, 1735 pts (15.1 ppg), 375 reb (3.3 rpg), 376 ast (3.3 apg)
1977 All American
1978 All American

Wesley Matthews
6-5/215 | 2005-09
127 g, 1673 pts (13.2 ppg), 628 reb (4.9 rpg), 271 ast (2.1 apg)

Jerel McNeal
6-3/200 | 2005-09
130 g, 1985 pts (15.3 ppg), 608 reb (4.7 rpg), 455 ast (3.5 apg)
2009 All American

Earl Tatum
6-5/185 | 1972-76
103 g, 1234 pts (12.0 ppg), 563 reb (5.5 rpg)
1976 All American

George Thompson
6-2/200 | 1966-69
87 g, 1773 pts (20.4 ppg), 688 reb (7.9 rpg)
1969 All American

Dwyane Wade
6-4/212 | 2001-03
65 g, 1281 pts (19.7 ppg), 420 reb (6.5 rpg), 255 ast (3.9 apg)
2002 All American
2003 All American

Brian Wardle
6-5/205 | 1997-2001
117 g, 1690 pts (14.4 ppg), 457 reb (3.9 rpg), 213 ast (1.8 apg)

Michael Wilson
6-4/175 | 1978-82
119 g, 1299 pts (10.9 ppg), 421 reb (3.5 rpg), 350 ast (2.9 apg)

Bob Wolf
6-2/178 | 1964-67
81 g, 1479 pts (18.3 ppg)

[Marcus92]

Small Forward
Jimmy Butler
6-6/215 | 2008-11
106 g, 1277 pts (12.0 ppg), 579 reb (5.5 rpg), 180 ast (1.7 apg)

Chris Crawford
6-9/235 | 1993-97
113 g, 1048 pts (9.3 ppg), 391 reb (3.5 rpg), 93 ast (0.8 apg)

Jae Crowder
6-6/235 | 2010-12
72 g, 1049 pts (14.6 ppg), 545 reb (7.6 rpg), 131 ast (1.8 apg)
2012 All American

Ron Curry
6-8/190 | 1990-93
81 g, 1018 pts (12.6 ppg), 592 reb (7.3 rpg), 132 ast (1.6 apg)

Roney Eford
6-5/205 | 1992-96
124 g, 1459 pts (11.8 ppg), 691 reb (5.6 rpg), 232 ast (1.9 apg)

Lazar Hayward
6-6/225 | 2006-10
138 g, 1859 pts (13.5 ppg), 910 reb (6.6 rpg), 122 ast (0.9 apg)

Oliver Lee
6-7/215 | 1977-81
109 g, 1227 pts (11.3 ppg), 450 reb (4.1 rpg), 123 ast (1.1 apg)

Steve Novak
6-10/220 | 2002-06
126 g, 1567 pts (12.4 ppg), 524 reb (4.2 rpg), 123 ast (1.0 apg)

[Marcus92]

Power Forward
Ric Cobb
6-5/200 | 1968-70
58 g, 712 pts (12.3 ppg), 545 reb (9.4 rpg)

Henry Ellenson
6-11/242 | 2015-16
33 g, 561 pts (17.0 ppg), 250 reb (9.7 rpg)

Bo Ellis
6-9/197 | 1973-77
119 g, 1663 pts (14.0 ppg), 1085 reb (9.1 rpg)
1977 All American

Damon Key
6-8/245 l 1990-94
114 g, 1599 pts (14.0 ppg), 714 reb (6.3 rpg)

Don Kojis
6-5/205 | 1958-61
81 g, 1504 pts (18.6 ppg), 1222 reb (15.1 rpg)
1961 All American

Maurice Lucas
6-9/215 | 1972-74
60 g, 939 pts (15.7 ppg), 643 reb (10.7 rpg)
1974 All American

Larry McNeil
6-9/195 | 1971-73
58 g, 901 pts (15.5 ppg), 554 reb (9.6 rpg)

Trevor Powell
6-6/210 | 1987-91
106 g, 1494 pts (14.1 ppg), 716 reb (6.8 rpg)

Davante Gardner
6-8/290 | 2010-14
127 g, 1287 pts (10.1 ppg), 564 reb (4.4 rpg)

Scott Merritt
6-10/240 | 2001-05
126 g, 1049 pts (8.3 ppg), 687 reb (5.5 rpg)

[Marcus92]

Center
Jim Chones
6-11/220 | 1970-72
50 g, 952 pts (19.0 ppg), 583 reb (11.7 rpg)
1972 All American

Luke Fischer
6-11/245 | 2014-16
57 g, 664 pts (11.6 ppg), 318 reb (5.6 rpg), 100 blk (1.8 bpg)

Robert Jackson
6-10/255 | 2002-03
33 g, 509 pts (15.4 ppg), 249 reb (7.5 rpg)

Amal McCaskill
6-11/235 | 1991-96
111 g, 861 pts (7.8 ppg), 700 reb (6.3 rpg), 175 blk (1.6 bpg)

Jim McIlvane
7-1/240 | 1990-94
118 g, 1278 pts (10.8 ppg), 673 reb (5.7 rpg), 399 blk (3.4 bpg)

Terry Rand
6-9/220 | 1953-56
77 g, 1309 pts (17.0 ppg), 978 reb (12.7 rpg)

Jerome Whitehead
6-10/220 | 1975-78
89 g, 987 pts (11.1 ppg), 680 reb (7.6 rpg)
1978 All American

[🏀]

Doc
Wade
Novak
Ellis
Chones

[PBRme]

Chones
Lucas
Ellis
Wade
Lee

[Marcus92]

Doc
Wade
Novak
Ellis
Chones

Perfectly fine if you only want to vote for 5 players — I'll count them as your first team. But you're welcome to name a 2nd and 3rd team, as well.

[BrewCity83]

1st:  Rivers, Wade, Kojis, Lucas, Chones
2nd: Meminger, Lee, Thompson, Tatum, Ellis
3rd:  Worthen, Matthews, Butler, Crowder, Ellenson

[brandx]

1st: Lee, Wade, Thompson, Ellis, Chones

2nd: Meminger, Rivers, Kojis, Lucas, Crowder

I would have switched Lucas over Ellis if Luke had played more than two years.

Favorite misses: Tatum, Worthen, Walton, Toone.

[bilsu]

You could go with the best player at every position or build a team that would win the national championship. For example the best center would be Jim Chones, but if I think a team needs shot blocking I would go with Jim MacIlvanie. The best power forward in my opinion is Bo Ellis, but if I wanted a physical power forward I would go with Maurice Lucas. What complicates things for me is that the great players often played different positions in the pros. Wade 2g in college and point guard in pros. Butler forward in college 2g in pros. Lucas center in college power forward in pros. A national championsip needs defense, rebounding, shooting and ball handling. The best ball handler is Meminger the best passer is Worthen. Would a backcourt of Butch Lee and Wade work well together? Do you go with McGuire's theory that a center should be a rebounder and defender instead of a scorer or do you want the offense to focus on taking the ball inside.
Here is my starting team to win the national championship.
I have to take Ellis and Wade, so the other players have to fit in with them. I need outside shooters that could fit in athletically with these two. Okay this is my team to competer for NCAA title
C. Chones
PF Ellis
SF Tatum
SG Wade
PG Diener

Diener was not as good of a ball handler as Meminger, a passer as Worthen or defender as James, but he was a much better outside shooter and I know he teamed well with Wade.

[Marcus92]

You could go with the best player at every position or build a team that would win the national championship. For example the best center would be Jim Chones, but if I think a team needs shot blocking I would go with Jim MacIlvanie. The best power forward in my opinion is Bo Ellis, but if I wanted a physical power forward I would go with Maurice Lucas. What complicates things for me is that the great players often played different positions in the pros. Wade 2g in college and point guard in pros. Butler forward in college 2g in pros. Lucas center in college power forward in pros. A national championsip needs defense, rebounding, shooting and ball handling. The best ball handler is Meminger the best passer is Worthen. Would a backcourt of Butch Lee and Wade work well together? Do you go with McGuire's theory that a center should be a rebounder and defender instead of a scorer or do you want the offense to focus on taking the ball inside.
Here is my starting team to win the national championship.
I have to take Ellis and Wade, so the other players have to fit in with them. I need outside shooters that could fit in athletically with these two. Okay this is my team to competer for NCAA title
C. Chones
PF Ellis
SF Tatum
SG Wade
PG Diener

Diener was not as good of a ball handler as Meminger, a passer as Worthen or defender as James, but he was a much better outside shooter and I know he teamed well with Wade.

The whole thing is an impossible hypothetical — so you can vote and build your team however you want. It's great to read the thinking behind your picks. My one suggestion is that how a player does in the pros is irrelevant. This is about what a team might look like of the best players to ever put on a Marquette uniform.

[DUNKS45]

The Dream
D Wade
Bo Ellis
Maurice Lucas
Jim Chones

2nd
Doc
Butch Lee
Don Kojis
Crowder
Thompson

3rd
Lucky Lloyd
Sam
Travis
Earl Tatum
Rand

[Marcus92]

Another thing I'd point out is that if you're thinking of this as a team that could win a national championship, a team is more than 5 players.

That's in part why I suggested nominating a 1st, 2nd and 3rd team. I like the idea of Worthen starting as an all-around point guard who can score and dish — then having Meminger come into the game off the bench (along with Lee) for some serious offensive punch. Tony Miller is the steady reserve who you can trust with the ball when the main rotation players need a breather.

Crowder, Lucas and Chones could hold their own rebounding against anybody — plus provide a post presence and help spread the floor (Jae).

[Lennys Tap]

Doc
Wade
Novak
Ellis
Chones

Doc Rivers wasn't half the college player that Dean Meminger and Butch Lee were. Steve Novak wasn't in the same league as George Thompson, Mo Lucas, Earl Tatum and Don Kojis.

[GooooMarquette]

1st:  Meminger, Butch, Tatum, Bo, Chones
2nd:  Travis, DWade, Jae, Luke, Whitehead
3rd:  Lloyd, Jerel, Lazar, Kojis, McIlvaine

I voted on how they did at MU.  And FWIW, Tatum mostly played small forward - Butch was the SG while he was there.

[brandx]

Doc Rivers wasn't half the college player that Dean Meminger and Butch Lee were. Steve Novak wasn't in the same league as George Thompson, Mo Lucas, Earl Tatum and Don Kojis.

Completely accurate on both statements.

I chose Wade and Lee @ guard, but really, I could have easily put all three on the 1st team.

[brandx]

Current results as of 6/10 (points in parentheses):
C Jim Chones (30)
G Dwyane Wade (30)
F Bo Ellis (26)
F Maurice Lucas (18)
G Butch Lee (16)
G Doc Rivers (13)
F Jae Crowder (9)
G Dean Meminger (9)
G George Thompson (9)
F/C Don Kojis (8)
G/F Earl Tatum (8)
G Sam Worthen (7)
G Travis Diener (5)
F Steve Novak (5)
F Lazar Hayward (3)
C Jerome Whitehead (3)
F Henry Ellenson (2)
F Jimmy Butler (1)
F Ron Curry (1)
G Wesley Matthews (1)
C Jim McIlvane (1)
G Tony Miller (1)

Maybe it's been mostly younger guys responding so far, but there is no way anyone leaves Thompson off the 1st team if they ever saw him play.

He, Lee, and Meminger should all have more votes

[GooooMarquette]

Maybe it's been mostly younger guys responding so far, but there is no way anyone leaves Thompson off the 1st team if they ever saw him play.

He, Lee, and Meminger should all have more votes

Probably true.  My MU memories begin with Meminger and Chones, and accordingly, I almost exclusively picked guys I saw play.  The only exception was Kojis due to his insane rebounding numbers, and I put him third team.

I'm amazed Lee isn't a consensus first teamer.  Final Four MOP in '77, NPOY in '78.  Wade was damn good, but my sense is that people are picking him ahead of Lee more for his post-MU accomplishments.  Or maybe it's younger fans giving the edge to guys they saw play.

[nyg]

Meminger
Wade
Chones
Lucas
McNeil

Lee
Thompson
Ellis
Tatum
Whitehead

To not have Larry McNeil on the list too bad.  Probably the most underrated player in MU history. He was just fantastic, so he gets my vote.

[🏀]

Doc Rivers wasn't half the college player that Dean Meminger and Butch Lee were. Steve Novak wasn't in the same league as George Thompson, Mo Lucas, Earl Tatum and Don Kojis.

Cool.

[Aughnanure]

1st:  Meminger, Butch, Tatum, Bo, Chones
2nd:  Travis, DWade, Jae, Luke, Whitehead
3rd:  Lloyd, Jerel, Lazar, Kojis, McIlvaine

I voted on how they did at MU.  And FWIW, Tatum mostly played small forward - Butch was the SG while he was there.

Any process that leaves Wade off first 5 is wrong. Ditto Lucas IMO.

[Folks,,,]

What complicates things for me is that the great players often played different positions in the pros. Wade 2g in college and point guard in pros. Butler forward in college 2g in pros. Lucas center in college power forward in pros.

FWIW, no.

[Gato78]

Meminger
Chones
Wade
Bo
Butch