Boston Market Expanding Overseas

[vogue65]

But make sure there is a doily under the coffee cup, for God's sake!!!

It is a selection criteria because if that kind of attention to detail is present the chances are that the rest of the experience will be exceptional.  Coffee mugs, artificial flowers, wrapped butter are just indicative of corporate type dinning.

[Coleman]

I'll go along with that in the aggregate, but the exception does prove the rule.  I'll still put Washington D.C., and Nantucket as well as Vegas above the typical and above Chicago, again, in the aggregate.

In it's class Milwaukee is also above the average.  Places like Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, leave a lot to be desired.

Agree that for the mid-size rust belt cities, Milwaukee probably has the best dining scene. But that isn't saying too much.

[MUsoxfan]

Yes, and getting back to my criteria for a "good restaurant"; table cloths, waiters or waitresses with clean uniforms, an on premise chef, fresh ingredients, no boilable bags, no microwaves, unwrapped butter, hot bread, fresh flowers, quiet room, etc..  Therefore, no corporate dinning qualifies as a good restaurant.  And BTW the union is new, nice and typical of the architecture for it's time, but new nonetheless.

In Vegas I found Gallagher's steak house, same as NYC, now that is a steak house.  Dry aged beef is something you can't find in New Jersey or Milwaukee for that matter. 

Back in the 1960's we had world class restaurants in Milwaukee.  The follow-on generations have no idea what qualifies as a good restaurant.

A baked potato without aluminum foil, a Caesar salad made from scratch with a fresh egg, coffee in a saucer with a doily, I know, I'm just a bore....sorry.

The best restaurants in America, NYC, Nantucket, Las Vegas, and Washington D.C., Boston as honorable mention.

Second Division:  Atlanta, Dallas, Wichita, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Milwaukee.

Third Division:  St. Louis, Pittsburgh, New Orleans

Lots of that criteria you list is going away.

Even at the pretty high-end country club I managed, the white tablecloth and servers in a tie thing went away 5 years ago.

We had our upstairs main dining room (jacket required, no jeans) and renovated the first floor to have an expansive patio and more casual experience.

The first year, we kept both rooms and kitchens open. Turns out that the only people who came to eat in the formal dining area were members that were over 65 years old. We'd have 4 tables upstairs and have a 45min wait to be seated downstairs.

The next year we closed the formal dining room. The 65+ crew put up a stink, but it was determined that there aren't enough of them and they don't spend much money (split meals, one drink each, etc).

This is an industry wide trend that I don't see reverting back.

Not many investors will be too willing to pump money into a white tablecloth, fresh flower centerpiece, quiet, stuffy environment anymore.

[drewm88]

Lots of that criteria you list is going away.

Even at the pretty high-end country club I managed, the white tablecloth and servers in a tie thing went away 5 years ago.

We had our upstairs main dining room (jacket required, no jeans) and renovated the first floor to have an expansive patio and more casual experience.

The first year, we kept both rooms and kitchens open. Turns out that the only people who came to eat in the formal dining area were members that were over 65 years old. We'd have 4 tables upstairs and have a 45min wait to be seated downstairs.

The next year we closed the formal dining room. The 65+ crew put up a stink, but it was determined that there aren't enough of them and they don't spend much money (split meals, one drink each, etc).

This is an industry wide trend that I don't see reverting back.

Not many investors will be too willing to pump money into a white tablecloth, fresh flower centerpiece, quiet, stuffy environment anymore.

Agreed. Vogue's issue doesn't seem to be with Milwaukee as much as it is with trends in dining. Sounds like you're looking for old-fashioned fancy.

[Benny B]

I shall return, I will look up Carvenour and expect to find dry-aged beef, I'll be very surprised and happily stand corrected.  Frequently dry-aged beef is advertised, but it is not the real thing. 

I may have walked by the place, may have been turned off by the lack of tablecloths.  Think it was a artists bar back in the 1960's that offered raw beef on rye bread with horseradish just before closing.

rocket... 4ever... Doc... what's the professional consensus regarding sinking a full set of dentures into a steak?  Go or no-go?

[mikekinsellaMVP]

The best restaurants in America, NYC, Nantucket, Las Vegas, and Washington D.C., Boston as honorable mention.

Second Division:  Atlanta, Dallas, Wichita, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Milwaukee.

Third Division:  St. Louis, Pittsburgh, New Orleans

Still waiting for President Grant to extend the railroad to San Francisco, I see.

[warriorchick]

Lots of that criteria you list is going away.

Even at the pretty high-end country club I managed, the white tablecloth and servers in a tie thing went away 5 years ago.

We had our upstairs main dining room (jacket required, no jeans) and renovated the first floor to have an expansive patio and more casual experience.

The first year, we kept both rooms and kitchens open. Turns out that the only people who came to eat in the formal dining area were members that were over 65 years old. We'd have 4 tables upstairs and have a 45min wait to be seated downstairs.

The next year we closed the formal dining room. The 65+ crew put up a stink, but it was determined that there aren't enough of them and they don't spend much money (split meals, one drink each, etc).

This is an industry wide trend that I don't see reverting back.

Not many investors will be too willing to pump money into a white tablecloth, fresh flower centerpiece, quiet, stuffy environment anymore.

My dad's first job out of the Army was in the HR department (back then they called it Personnel) of the Chase Park Plaza Hotel, which was basically St. Louis's Pfister. He told me that if he was interviewing a server, one way he determined whether their previous experience was in a high-end restaurant was if it was tray service or arm service. In other words, fancy places brought your food out on a tray.  Not-so-fancy places have food carried out of the kitchen on the server's arms. I think about that every time I have an expensive meal served to me off of a waiter's elbow.  But then again, I had a tray when I was a teenaged Big Boy waitress.

[jesmu84]

Yes, the chains dominate the metros... as evidenced by the fact that Dick's and Hard Rock Cafe in Milwaukee are always packed.

Of the three "local" Indy restaurants you listed, one's a chain, and the other two... one was spun off of the other with the specific intention of franchising nationally.  It's so tragic that Hoosiers don't even realize that their "local" restaurants are actually chains.  I'm surprised you didn't exemplify Bonefish Grill, Palomino or Morton's on your 15-second list.

With that said, St. Elmo's is a great place.  But every major city has several local restaurants at least on par with St. Elmo's.  Indy has nothing else... at least nothing the locals can name because they insist on naming chains as local gems instead of the other homegrown place they have up on 96th Street.

As to the second tier, Yats and Shapiros are excellent spots, but again, even for every local restaurant on your "25" link, every other major city has at least two of those places.

And the most delicious irony here?  Let's not forget that one of the most chic "local" restaurants in Indy has roots in Milwaukee.

I rest my case.

Tinker Street, Mesh, Vida, Bluebeard, Reveal, Black Market, Louie's Wine Dive, The Eagle, Penn & Palate, Plow and Anchor, Union 50...

That's just downtown and off of the top of my head.

I lived in Indy from 2009-2011 and again from 2013-present. None of those restaurants existed when I was here the first time. The majority have been started from 2014 onward. Indy is still very much a chain town, but the "foodie" options are expanding quickly.

[Sheriff]

My dad's first job out of the Army was in the HR department (back then they called it Personnel) of the Chase Park Plaza Hotel, which was basically St. Louis's Pfister. He told me that if he was interviewing a server, one way he determined whether their previous experience was in a high-end restaurant was if it was tray service or arm service. In other words, fancy places brought your food out on a tray.  Not-so-fancy places have food carried out of the kitchen on the server's arms. I think about that every time I have an expensive meal served to me off of a waiter's elbow.  But then again, I had a tray when I was a teenaged Big Boy waitress.

If the waitress has dirty ankles, the chili is good.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Dry aged beef is something you can't find in New Jersey or Milwaukee for that matter. 

Just stop already, dry-aged steaks can even be purchased in stores to throw on the Weber here.

[GGGG]

Yeah but do you drink coffee out of a mug?

[warriorchick]

Yeah but do you drink coffee out of a mug?

All of Vogue's posts in one convenient meme:

[vogue65]

My dad's first job out of the Army was in the HR department (back then they called it Personnel) of the Chase Park Plaza Hotel, which was basically St. Louis's Pfister. He told me that if he was interviewing a server, one way he determined whether their previous experience was in a high-end restaurant was if it was tray service or arm service. In other words, fancy places brought your food out on a tray.  Not-so-fancy places have food carried out of the kitchen on the server's arms. I think about that every time I have an expensive meal served to me off of a waiter's elbow.  But then again, I had a tray when I was a teenaged Big Boy waitress.

Love it, we are getting very discerning about our taste in restaurants.

Never thought about arm service, must add it to my list, thanks. 

Today I ate at a local N.J. dinner, wife is in Italy for June, and yes it was arm service and no, the steaks are not dry-aged.  In fact they are probably USDA Select, if that, so I eat chicken kabob.

Hay, I'm being good, I'm not comparing Milwaukee to Italy, just its peer group of Midwest cities.

Even Italy is going to hell in a handbasket, but at least they make the baskets in Italy.   

[rocket surgeon]

rocket... 4ever... Doc... what's the professional consensus regarding sinking a full set of dentures into a steak?  Go or no-go?

Dry aged or a ponderosa?  Is the denture implant supported or do they use fixadent?  Lots of wide open criteria before I step into that one.

    I had a dude all line up for my last denture in school.  Needed it to graduate.  So we relieve him of the last vestiges of what we shall call teeth.  Allow him to heal for a few weeks.  I run into him in a bar and he's gumming everything in sight.  I go, vinny, 'bout time we start putting some teeth back in your mouth.  He looks at me, quite inebriated, and says F-that.  I've found I can eat anything and everything I want now and even better than when I had teeth.   Sonuva...had to buy a denture patient from a junior

[rocket surgeon]

If the waitress has dirty ankles, the chili is good.

That's a beauty. I've always wondered if she soiled up her ankles, I don't wanna know...

[Sheriff]

Dry aged or a ponderosa?  Is the denture implant supported or do they use fixadent?  Lots of wide open criteria before I step into that one.

    I had a dude all line up for my last denture in school.  Needed it to graduate.  So we relieve him of the last vestiges of what we shall call teeth.  Allow him to heal for a few weeks.  I run into him in a bar and he's gumming everything in sight.  I go, vinny, 'bout time we start putting some teeth back in your mouth.  He looks at me, quite inebriated, and says F-that.  I've found I can eat anything and everything I want now and even better than when I had teeth.   Sonuva...had to buy a denture patient from a junior

[Coleman]

As an undergrad I had visions of becoming a dentist.  I had a summer job working in a dental lab, making dentures, crowns and bridges.  One day a kit came in with most of the upper teeth stuck in the impression.  That's when I decided to change career path.

Dey might make decent bread but u gadda put your hands in some gross chit, heyna?

[JWags85]

I'll go along with that in the aggregate, but the exception does prove the rule.  I'll still put Washington D.C., and Nantucket as well as Vegas above the typical and above Chicago, again, in the aggregate.

In it's class Milwaukee is also above the average.  Places like Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, leave a lot to be desired.

Chicago is regularly rated one of the top restaurant cities IN THE WORLD, yet its second tier in your opinion.  And I don't know where this Nantucket notion comes from.  Probably from a good, old school dining experience in the 70s.  Not to mention no mention of LA or SF, probably 2 of the top 5 restaurant scenes in the country.

Vogue, you're a good guy and I don't mean to disparage your many years of dining experience, but you seem as qualified to speak on the current dining scene in the US as I do on the bar scene at Marquette in the mid 60s, 20 years before I was born.

[drewm88]

Dey might make decent bread but u gadda put your hands in some gross chit, heyna?

Nice.

[4everwarriors]

McCalls bro, ya gotten check out Rare Steakhouse, hey?

[rocket surgeon]

As an undergrad I had visions of becoming a dentist.  I had a summer job working in a dental lab, making dentures, crowns and bridges.  One day a kit came in with most of the upper teeth stuck in the impression.  That's when I decided to change career path.

are you chittin me?  how many years ago?  today one has to disinfect/not quite sterilize the impression before the lab even opens it up. ya can't heat/pressure sterilize as that would distort and ruin the impression.  if this happened, and i'm not saying it didn't, either it was a sick joke or some hate being thrown back at the lab.  i laughed right out loud when i read your post-my dog is still looking at me funny.  great story!  i'm sure the labs could write books

[4everwarriors]

rocket... 4ever... Doc... what's the professional consensus regarding sinking a full set of dentures into a steak?  Go or no-go?

Depends if I made da denture or some utter cat, hey?

[Sheriff]

are you chittin me?  how many years ago?  today one has to disinfect/not quite sterilize the impression before the lab even opens it up. ya can't heat/pressure sterilize as that would distort and ruin the impression.  if this happened, and i'm not saying it didn't, either it was a sick joke or some hate being thrown back at the lab.  i laughed right out loud when i read your post-my dog is still looking at me funny.  great story!  i'm sure the labs could write books

True story, no chit.  1978.  My boss called the Doc and asked for an explanation.  I don't recall the outcome but I don't think I poured the mold on that one.  There were no universal precautions for BBPs or other agents in practice at our lab.  Re-finishing dentures was particularly nasty.  The owners were all ex-Navy guys. 

[rocket surgeon]

True story, no chit.  1978.  My boss called the Doc and asked for an explanation.  I don't recall the outcome but I don't think I poured the mold on that one.  There were no universal precautions for BBPs or other agents in practice at our lab.  Re-finishing dentures was particularly nasty.  The owners were all ex-Navy guys.

"Re-finishing dentures was particularly nasty"

    especially if ya found a few curly ones between the teeth too. EYN'a?

back in "78, one wasn't even required to wear gloves.  i don't even know if there was a box of them in the office.  not until 82-83-84-85, they just kinda "recommended" you use them.  they said, start to try to get used to doing stuff with gloves.  even root canals??  b/c a big part of endo was tactile sense and gloves ruined the "experience"  think bareback or the intro of sheepskin/lambskin  

[keefe]

  But then again, I had a tray when I was a teenaged Big Boy waitress.

Is that when you stopped washing below the calves?