College degree more valuable than people realize

[GGGG]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/06/03/upshot/up-college-unemployment-quiz.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0


"We asked: “The unemployment rate for 24-to-34-year-olds without a four-year college degree is 7 percent. What do you think it is for 25-to-34-year-olds with a four-year college degree?” More than half of the respondents thought that the jobless rate for college graduates was higher.

We were becoming convinced that this was a real misunderstanding, not a flaw in the surveys, each of which was run by Google, each with over 1,000 respondents. A report by the Pew Research Center found that the results from Google’s surveys are typically quite similar to the results from Pew’s telephone surveys."


...


Here’s the thing about college degrees...

There is some evidence that having a college degree doesn’t guarantee a good job, but the alternative is much worse. Young people who have earned a college degree have substantially lower unemployment rates than those who haven’t. Since 2000, young college graduates, on average, have an unemployment rate that is 5.5 percentage points lower than those of nongraduates. And this gap typically widens during recessions; it expanded to 10 percentage points at the depths of the Great Recession.

College graduates also make more money. A typical college graduate can expect to make over half a million dollars more than a nongraduate over a lifetime. Much of this has to do with differences in wage growth during the midcareer of a college graduate versus a nongraduate.

[muwarrior69]

Take this test.

I scored 84%. According them I have a PhD.

http://offbeat.topix.com/quiz/16503?utm_source=taboola&utm_campaign=16503&tpx_term=NTA76CMONI17DIUM&cvar=tm1:i-4r3-3KO0E3FFSN39C668&utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=referral

[warriorchick]

Take this test.

I scored 84%. According them I have a PhD.

http://offbeat.topix.com/quiz/16503?utm_source=taboola&utm_campaign=16503&tpx_term=NTA76CMONI17DIUM&cvar=tm1:i-4r3-3KO0E3FFSN39C668&utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=referral

I got a 91%.  My PhD must be from a more prestigious university than yours.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I got 88%, My PhD.....Piled high, Deeper....needs some work.  Literature always kills me in this stuff....aced everything else.

[MU82]

My son couldn't hack it in college. Really smart kid. Scored 30 on his ACT without studying one second for it. But he just didn't click in college and he has never gone back.

It worked for Gates, but not for my son. He is gainfully employed, but he is paid less than others his age who have 4-year degrees and are no smarter or harder-working than he is. Doesn't have health benefits, either.

He probably could get another job, with benefits, but has "comfort" with this boss, whom he likes.

Certainly, having the sheepskin would be helpful.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Good for your son MU82.  Many ways to go about life, many paths...no guarantees with any of them. 

[Tugg Speedman]

College Loan Glut Worries Policy Makers
Massive investment in improving skills turns sour, echoes of housing crisis
June 5, 2016 3:01 p.m. ET

http://www.wsj.com/articles/college-loan-glut-worries-policy-makers-1465153138

The U.S. government over the last 15 years made a trillion-dollar investment to improve the nation’s workforce, productivity and economy. A big portion of that investment has now turned toxic, with echoes of the housing crisis.

The investment was in “human capital,” or, more specifically, higher education. The government helped finance tens of millions of tuitions as enrollment in U.S. colleges and graduate schools soared 24% from 2002 to 2012, rivaling the higher-education boom of the 1970s. Millions of others attended trade schools that award career certificates.

The government financed a large share of these educations through grants, low-interest loans and loan guarantees. Total outstanding student debt—almost all guaranteed or made directly by the federal government—has quadrupled since 2000 to $1.2 trillion today. The government also spent tens of billions of dollars in grants and tax credits for students.

New research shows a significant chunk of that investment backfired, with millions of students worse off for having gone to school. Many never learned new skills because they dropped out—and now carry debt they are unwilling or unable to repay. Policy makers worry that without a bigger intervention, those borrowers will become trapped for years and will ultimately hurt, rather than help, the nation’s economy.

[Jay Bee]

New research shows a significant chunk of that investment backfired, with millions of students worse off for having gone to school. Many never learned new skills because they dropped out—and now carry debt they are unwilling or unable to repay.

Place them in jail, with work release. They will work, pay off their debts, and receive three squares.

[GGGG]

College Loan Glut Worries Policy Makers
Massive investment in improving skills turns sour, echoes of housing crisis
June 5, 2016 3:01 p.m. ET

http://www.wsj.com/articles/college-loan-glut-worries-policy-makers-1465153138

The U.S. government over the last 15 years made a trillion-dollar investment to improve the nation’s workforce, productivity and economy. A big portion of that investment has now turned toxic, with echoes of the housing crisis.

The investment was in “human capital,” or, more specifically, higher education. The government helped finance tens of millions of tuitions as enrollment in U.S. colleges and graduate schools soared 24% from 2002 to 2012, rivaling the higher-education boom of the 1970s. Millions of others attended trade schools that award career certificates.

The government financed a large share of these educations through grants, low-interest loans and loan guarantees. Total outstanding student debt—almost all guaranteed or made directly by the federal government—has quadrupled since 2000 to $1.2 trillion today. The government also spent tens of billions of dollars in grants and tax credits for students.

New research shows a significant chunk of that investment backfired, with millions of students worse off for having gone to school. Many never learned new skills because they dropped out—and now carry debt they are unwilling or unable to repay. Policy makers worry that without a bigger intervention, those borrowers will become trapped for years and will ultimately hurt, rather than help, the nation’s economy.

Right.  Cause they didn't finish.

[rocket surgeon]

My son couldn't hack it in college. Really smart kid. Scored 30 on his ACT without studying one second for it. But he just didn't click in college and he has never gone back.

It worked for Gates, but not for my son. He is gainfully employed, but he is paid less than others his age who have 4-year degrees and are no smarter or harder-working than he is. Doesn't have health benefits, either.

He probably could get another job, with benefits, but has "comfort" with this boss, whom he likes.

Certainly, having the sheepskin would be helpful.

my youngest wanted to follow my footsteps badly.  smart kid, loved the sciences, understood them as he and i would study together.  then he'd get a c or a bc.  started spending more time, got tuders...now all his classes are hurting. switched to psych and business, got a job literally right as he received his diploma. he is presently out in your neck of the woods 82-he's a district manager for milwaukee tool living in raleigh and loving it.  he still loves science

[GooooMarquette]

A college degree isn't as much of an assurance of good work as it once was, but no question you're generally better off with one.

I think the people who are worse off might have been more appropriately suited to a trade or technical school.  My brother in law went to MATC for tool and die.  I thought he was kind of stupid at the time, but he was smart enough to know a regular college wasn't his thing...and now he does better then many people I know with bachelors degrees.

[forgetful]

A lot of these studies are flawed.  Are you less likely to be unemployed if you get a college degree?  Absolutely.

Are you going to have a job that requires a college degree?  Not necessarily.

You can have both finished your college degree and been better off not getting one. 

[rocket surgeon]

my daughter in law got a job with wells fargo-bank teller while she was going to college.  before she got her degree, she was rising thru the ranks to her eventual position of bank manager.  then, another bank recruited her from wells to become a manager for them and gave her 40% more.  now she is dabbling with becoming the regional marketing manager and she still doesn't have her degree.  and she is making 6 figures

at this point, i have encouraged her to try to finish the last few classes to get the "piece of paper", but i don't blame her if she wonders, why?  look how far she has gotten without it.  at some point, she may want to have something if she does have goals to move higher, i don't know at what point the companies will require it. but you cannot replace what she has learned on the job over the past 2 plus years with what the classroom could have provided

[muwarrior69]

I got a 91%.  My PhD must be from a more prestigious university than yours.

Like Chicos those literature questions killed me. Well, if I got 84% on my tests at MU, that would be a C grade. As Al said, the country is run by C students.

[muwarrior69]

my daughter in law got a job with wells fargo-bank teller while she was going to college.  before she got her degree, she was rising thru the ranks to her eventual position of bank manager.  then, another bank recruited her from wells to become a manager for them and gave her 40% more.  now she is dabbling with becoming the regional marketing manager and she still doesn't have her degree.  and she is making 6 figures

at this point, i have encouraged her to try to finish the last few classes to get the "piece of paper", but i don't blame her if she wonders, why?  look how far she has gotten without it.  at some point, she may want to have something if she does have goals to move higher, i don't know at what point the companies will require it. but you cannot replace what she has learned on the job over the past 2 plus years with what the classroom could have provided

Same for my son-in-law who has a GED. He is a grocery store manager and makes six figures (due to a bonus every month based on sales). The down side is he puts in 14 hours a day and is on call when he is off. Retail is really tough theses days, but at least he gets the 5 holidays off: Memorial Day, the 4th, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas.

[muwarrior69]

A college degree isn't as much of an assurance of good work as it once was, but no question you're generally better off with one.

I think the people who are worse off might have been more appropriately suited to a trade or technical school.  My brother in law went to MATC for tool and die.  I thought he was kind of stupid at the time, but he was smart enough to know a regular college wasn't his thing...and now he does better then many people I know with bachelors degrees.

My plumber charges me more than my Physician or Dentist.

[vogue65]

Sounds like typical political stuff with the usual cast of characters.
Thinly vailed agendas trying to avoid blatant political statements.
In the new world everything is now political. 

[mu03eng]

The interesting thing about a college degree is that it can set you up for success if you were likely to be successful in the first place.

These are very anecdotal, of course, but I think they demonstrate what I mean.

My father is more of an engineer than I will ever be, but never got an engineering degree. In fact, he nearly failed out of school his first year when he started as an engineering student. Had to switch to a business degree. He went into the AF, eventually became his squadron's engineering office(totally unqualified) which lead to him taking program leads on several system developments and from there he went into the civilian defense contractor world. The man can explain in great detail how radar, night vision, and electronic counter measure systems work....probably better than the engineers themselves. He got his masters in systems management(business not technical). If you remove the work history there is zero to indicate he should be so technical, hell he was called in you consulting on the space shuttle as to whether or not they could make it NVG capable.

Then take me. I got my mechanical engineering degree, but haven't done anything mechanical engineering in a decade. I just just changed jobs, I was doing product management for devices that measure everything about electrical energy to now being a product manager for products that are cloud and big data related(none of which have anything to do with thermal analysis, etc). While I have a business focus in my roles I still have to be able to explain how everything works to sales/customers as well as have an educated conversation with the engineers so they understand what the market requirements are. There is nothing in my educational background that says I should be able to do what I'm doing(I did get my MBA but that's more box checking then anything truly valuable, IMO).

IMO, the college degree is giving you a foundation for curiosity and critical thinking, anything beyond that is gravy. There will absolutely be some areas (research) where the details of the college education will be more important, but I think the majority of the time it is just to separate the chaff from the wheat and prepare students to be adults

[4everwarriors]

My plumber charges me more than my Physician or Dentist.

That's fooked up. Ya should find a plumber in yo plan. Dey all created equal. Just who can do it cheaper, ai na?

[forgetful]

Same for my son-in-law who has a GED. He is a grocery store manager and makes six figures (due to a bonus every month based on sales). The down side is he puts in 14 hours a day and is on call when he is off. Retail is really tough theses days, but at least he gets the 5 holidays off: Memorial Day, the 4th, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas.

I have a PhD from an Ivy league school.  I'm a professor at a prestigious University.  I work 14 hours a day and rarely get a day off.  I don't make six figures with my base salary.

[Benny B]

I have a PhD from an Ivy league school.  I'm a professor at a prestigious University.  I work 14 hours a day and rarely get a day off.  I don't make six figures with my base salary.

Regarding your current situation:

1. Did you ever anticipate that this would be the norm when you started going down the PhD path?
2. Did anyone at your doctoral institution tell you that this would (or might) be the norm?
3. Did you have much loftier expectations as to what your situation might be at this point?  If so, do you find these expectations to be unreasonable and/or not achievable in retrospect?
4. If you could do it over again, would you?  If not, what would you do differently if you had to do it over again?

I don't want to taint your responses, so I'll just say that I know someone else who's in a not-so-dissimilar situation... and I'm curious as to what parallels may exist.

[forgetful]

Regarding your current situation:

1. Did you ever anticipate that this would be the norm when you started going down the PhD path?
2. Did anyone at your doctoral institution tell you that this would (or might) be the norm?
3. Did you have much loftier expectations as to what your situation might be at this point?  If so, do you find these expectations to be unreasonable and/or not achievable in retrospect?
4. If you could do it over again, would you?  If not, what would you do differently if you had to do it over again?

I don't want to taint your responses, so I'll just say that I know someone else who's in a not-so-dissimilar situation... and I'm curious as to what parallels may exist.

I knew this would be the situation and would likely do it again. 

The only reason I say likely is because I was unaware of how corporatized Academia would become.  This is a new result, makes Universities absurdly inefficient and alters salary structures to favor the "CEOs".

I really didn't mean to come off as complaining, rather to highlight how actually well off the Grocery Manager/Bank Manager have it.

I would also argue that those business salaries are way too inflated.  It doesn't not require any skill or education.

[🏀]

Take this test.

I scored 84%. According them I have a PhD.

http://offbeat.topix.com/quiz/16503?utm_source=taboola&utm_campaign=16503&tpx_term=NTA76CMONI17DIUM&cvar=tm1:i-4r3-3KO0E3FFSN39C668&utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=referral

Only got an 86%, what the unnatural carnal knowledge with the Shakespeare questions?

[warriorchick]

Only got an 86%, what the unnatural carnal knowledge with the Shakespeare questions?

So, I am the smartest Scooper so far?

Whoda thunk it?   

[CTWarrior]

So, I am the smartest Scooper so far?

Whoda thunk it?   

I was 64/68 (94%) when the site crashed on me at lunch today.  Not going to take it again because it took forever with my company's bandwidth and now that I know the answers it wouldn't be fair, so give me 64/70 (91%) or a tie.  Full disclosure, I got 4 or 5 of the questions right not because I knew the right answer, but because I knew the other choices were not the correct answer.  I think I would have gotten over 80% just on stuff I learned by the end of high school (math, literature, geography, history, bible) or from movies, so not sure about their methodology.