Cincinnati gorilla

[Benny B]

Sorry, this is BS.  You can't "parent" one of your kids while losing track of another in a place where something horrible could happen.

Well, if said horrible thing were to happen and the parent is left with the one child, I think hindsight would dictate that you can parent one of your kids while losing track of the other.

[GGGG]

Kids have wondered off in stores and at the park when a parent is distracted tending to another child.  It happens and isn't a reflection on their parenting skills.  If that is indeed what happened, I chalk the whole thing up to an unfortunate incident. 

[Coleman]

Perhaps you misunderstand me.  I'm simply saying it's unfortunate that he didn't.  I don't blame the gorilla at all.  He was simply, well, being a silverback male gorilla.  But he was placed in a situation he was completely unprepared for and the consequences could have been horrific.

I guess view this as a very unfortunate situation.  Not interested in 'blaming mom' for her poor parenting.  Certainly don't think they need to alter the barrier that has worked just fine for nearly 40 years.  Think that second guessing the response team that felt the need to put down the animal is too Monday morning QBing.

Agree with all this.  Its too bad it happened. The situation sucks.

But so do the self-righteous people blaming the mom, zoo, etc.

[jsglow]

Kids have wondered off in stores and at the park when a parent is distracted tending to another child.  It happens and isn't a reflection on their parenting skills.  If that is indeed what happened, I chalk the whole thing up to an unfortunate incident.

+1

I can think of examples in my own life as a parent where I was less than 100% perfectly attentive and felt fortunate that nothing happened.  Sometimes I'd forget to feed the kids for two, three weeks at a time.   

[tower912]

There is no good here and no blame.    4 year olds bolt.   It is what they do.   Mom was distracted for a moment with another child.   It is what they do.    The gorilla reacted to the intruder into its domain.   It is what they do.    The zookeepers protected the child.      It is what they had to do.       
      I am going to pull out the 26 years of firefighting card again.  Every rescue we perform, be it high angle, trench, extrication from cars, rollovers, river rescues, ice-water rescues.... and I have done some version of all of them,  is because something goes wrong.  It is never a single event that causes these events, it is a series of them.   There is something to learn from every fire, as something goes wrong at almost all of them.
    The best that can be done here is to analyze what went wrong and learn from it.    And then have the employees practice and train for the next unplanned incident.    I'm sure the AF and Navy do the same thing as the fire service.   You take an incident and break it down and analyze it for every possible lesson to be learned, for every technique to be refined.   
    So, a most unfortunate event.   I am sympathetic to the mom, as I have had unruly children.   I am sympathetic to the 4 year old, as my wife will tell you I still act like an impetuous 4 year old from time to time.   I am sympathetic to the personnel from the zoo, as they were forced to make a very difficult judgement very quickly.   I am not sympathetic to the whiners and the bleaters who can't handle a traffic jam without screaming and cursing, who are too busy on their smartphones to parent, who take no chances and expect others to do all of the actual work, who somehow still think they are smarter and would have handled the situation more wisely.   

[Golden Avalanche]

I think it was a suicide by zookeeper on Harambe's part. Years in captivity and he eventually thinks, "unnatural carnal knowledge it, this blows, I'm out". Saw an opportunity to not outright harm another being (now there's a crazy mindset) but do just enough where "they" would have to take action.

The blood of Harambe is on the family. They were negligent.

[real chili 83]

I blame the gun manufacturer.

3....2....1....

[Tugg Speedman]

Meet the Parents

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617016/EXCLUSIVE-PICTURES-parents-four-son-fell-zoo-enclosure-sparking-controversial-killing-Harambe-gorilla-emerges-father-lengthy-criminal-history.html

EXCLUSIVE: Parents-of-four whose son fell into zoo enclosure sparking killing of Harambe the gorilla as it emerges father has a lengthy criminal history - including kidnap and drug trafficking
   
These are the parents of the four-year-old boy whose 15-feet fall into the gorilla exhibit moat in Cincinnati Zoo resulted in the death of 17-year-old silverback gorilla, Harambe.

Seen here for the first time is mother Michelle Gregg, 32, who has four children by father Deonne Dickerson, 36, a man who, Daily Mail Online can disclose, has a lengthy criminal history.

Criminal filings against Dickerson stretch over a decade and include burglary, firearms offences, drug trafficking, criminal trespass, disorderly conduct and kidnap.

In 2006 he was sentenced to one year behind bars for a drug trafficking conviction.

But in numerous pictures posted on Dickerson's Facebook site in recent years he appears to have turned his life around to become the proud father of four.

Indeed, the majority of his postings to the social media site are updates of his children and his working life.

[MomofMUltiples]

This is a tragic situation that has become altogether too frequent in the era of social media shaming.  I can attest that it is altogether too easy to lose track of one child, particularly when you are wrangling more than one, but even with only one you can turn around in a grocery store and the kid who was tugging on your pant two seconds ago whining for gummy snacks has disappeared.    My husband always joked that when the third kid came along, we went from man-to-man defense to zone (and when they started coming two at a time, we quit!). As glow said, I'm only thankful that nothing terrible happened as a result of my supposed "inattentiveness" to my children.

As a society, we are so determined to fix blame, but this is not the fault of the parents, or the zookeeper, or the gorilla (or the four year old boy, for that matter).  It was an accident in a world where we refuse to admit anymore that accidents happen, or where we acknowledge that accidents happen but we intend to use them to our advantage to profit from them.  Imagine the inverse conversation we would be having had the zookeepers decided, a'la the internet "activists," that the gorilla was far too valuable and so they did nothing and allowed the gorilla to inadvertently, or even intentionally, kill the young boy?  I have become so tired of the self righteous individuals who believe they can definitively say what a life is worth.  One could even argue that the zoo acted in its own self-interest, in this day when juries are awarding victims or their survivors tens of millions of dollars for supposed negligence that costs someone a body part or a life, even when the victim was ignoring clear safety instructions (or common sense) that resulted in their injuries.

It appears to me that the zookeepers quickly assessed the situation (as Tower said, because quick decisions were called for at this juncture) and determined that they could not end this incident and keep both of the participants safe.  It is great that all of the Twittersphere have declared themselves experts in the topic of rescuing a child from a gorilla enclosure in an emergency, but it would surprise me if a fraction of them could have reacted in the moment with a clear head and a decisive action.  And that, folks, is what separates the Tweeters from the Doers.

[jsglow]

As always, mom knows best.

[tower912]

This is a tragic situation that has become altogether too frequent in the era of social media shaming.  I can attest that it is altogether too easy to lose track of one child, particularly when you are wrangling more than one, but even with only one you can turn around in a grocery store and the kid who was tugging on your pant two seconds ago whining for gummy snacks has disappeared.    My husband always joked that when the third kid came along, we went from man-to-man defense to zone (and when they started coming two at a time, we quit!). As glow said, I'm only thankful that nothing terrible happened as a result of my supposed "inattentiveness" to my children.

As a society, we are so determined to fix blame, but this is not the fault of the parents, or the zookeeper, or the gorilla (or the four year old boy, for that matter).  It was an accident in a world where we refuse to admit anymore that accidents happen, or where we acknowledge that accidents happen but we intend to use them to our advantage to profit from them.  Imagine the inverse conversation we would be having had the zookeepers decided, a'la the internet "activists," that the gorilla was far too valuable and so they did nothing and allowed the gorilla to inadvertently, or even intentionally, kill the young boy?  I have become so tired of the self righteous individuals who believe they can definitively say what a life is worth.  One could even argue that the zoo acted in its own self-interest, in this day when juries are awarding victims or their survivors tens of millions of dollars for supposed negligence that costs someone a body part or a life, even when the victim was ignoring clear safety instructions (or common sense) that resulted in their injuries.

It appears to me that the zookeepers quickly assessed the situation (as Tower said, because quick decisions were called for at this juncture) and determined that they could not end this incident and keep both of the participants safe.  It is great that all of the Twittersphere have declared themselves experts in the topic of rescuing a child from a gorilla enclosure in an emergency, but it would surprise me if a fraction of them could have reacted in the moment with a clear head and a decisive action.  And that, folks, is what separates the Tweeters from the Doers.

Testify.    You said it far more eloquently than I did.   

[wadesworld]

I haven't really followed the story about how the kid got there, but do we know for certain that the mom was just dealing with her other crying child?  Is it just her word?

Having said that, we're talking about killing a gorilla, right?  I mean, not that I want animals dead, but really?  A 400 lb gorilla was swinging a 4 year old human being through the water like the child was a dog's tug-o-war chew toy.  Heck, even if the gorilla just continued to stand there cornering the child like he was for the first 15 seconds of the video, you're really going to leave it up to chance that the gorilla won't harm the kid?  All it takes is 1 instinctual move from the gorilla and the kid's life is over.  If you ask me, I would've been fine with them shooting the gorilla the second it approached the kid, and I have nothing against gorillas.  But a human life or a gorilla life?  Tough choice...

[StillAWarrior]

I haven't really followed the story about how the kid got there, but do we know for certain that the mom was just dealing with her other crying child?  Is it just her word?

Having said that, we're talking about killing a gorilla, right?  I mean, not that I want animals dead, but really?  A 400 lb gorilla was swinging a 4 year old human being through the water like the child was a dog's tug-o-war chew toy.  Heck, even if the gorilla just continued to stand there cornering the child like he was for the first 15 seconds of the video, you're really going to leave it up to chance that the gorilla won't harm the kid?  All it takes is 1 instinctual move from the gorilla and the kid's life is over.  If you ask me, I would've been fine with them shooting the gorilla the second it approached the kid, and I have nothing against gorillas.  But a human life or a gorilla life?  Tough choice...

I've also seen people claiming that the gorilla was acting in a protective way toward the child.  Even if we accept as truth that the gorilla wanted to protect the child (and I don't), you just have to look at the way he dragged him through the water to understand that the kid was in grave danger (is there any other kind?).  That gorilla was just as likely to hurt/kill the kid unintentionally -- maybe more -- as intentionally.

[wadesworld]

I've also seen people claiming that the gorilla was acting in a protective way toward the child.  Even if we accept as truth that the gorilla wanted to protect the child (and I don't), you just have to look at the way he dragged him through the water to understand that the kid was in grave danger (is there any other kind?).  That gorilla was just as likely to hurt/kill the kid unintentionally -- maybe more -- as intentionally.

+1

[brewcity77]

Saw this posted on Facebook, written by a former zookeeper. Gives good perspective:

I am going to try to clear up a few things that have been weighing on me about Harambe and the Cinci Zoo since I read the news this afternoon.
I have worked with Gorillas as a zookeeper while in my twenties (before children) and they are my favorite animal (out of dozens) that I have ever worked closely with. I am gonna go ahead and list a few facts, thoughts and opinions for those of you that aren't familiar with the species itself, or how a zoo operates in emergency situations.

Now Gorillas are considered 'gentle giants' at least when compared with their more aggressive cousins the chimpanzee, but a 400+ pound male in his prime is as strong as roughly 10 adult humans. What can you bench press? OK, now multiply that number by ten. An adult male silverback gorilla has one job, to protect his group. He does this by bluffing or intimidating anything that he feels threatened by.

Gorillas are considered a Class 1 mammal, the most dangerous class of mammals in the animal kingdom, again, merely due to their size and strength. They are grouped in with other apes, tigers, lions, bears, etc.

While working in an AZA accredited zoo with Apes, keepers DO NOT work in contact with them. Meaning they do NOT go in with these animals. There is always a welded mesh barrier between the animal and the humans.

In more recent decades, zoos have begun to redesign enclosures, removing all obvious caging and attempting to create a seamless view of the animals for the visitor to enjoy watching animals in a more natural looking habitat. *this is great until little children begin falling into exhibits* which of course can happen to anyone, especially in a crowded zoo-like setting.

I have watched this video over again, and with the silverback's postering, and tight lips, it's pretty much the stuff of any keeper's nightmares, and I have had MANY while working with them. This job is not for the complacent. Gorillas are kind, curious, and sometimes silly, but they are also very large, very strong animals. I always brought my OCD to work with me. checking and rechecking locks to make sure my animals and I remained separated before entering to clean.
 
I keep hearing that the Gorilla was trying to protect the boy. I do not find this to be true. Harambe reaches for the boys hands and arms, but only to position the child better for his own displaying purposes.

Males do very elaborate displays when highly agitated, slamming and dragging things about. Typically they would drag large branches, barrels and heavy weighted balls around to make as much noise as possible. Not in an effort to hurt anyone or anything (usually) but just to intimidate. It was clear to me that he was reacting to the screams coming from the gathering crowd.

Harambe was most likely not going to separate himself from that child without seriously hurting him first (again due to mere size and strength, not malicious intent) Why didn't they use treats? well, they attempted to call them off exhibit (which animals hate), the females in the group came in, but Harambe did not. What better treat for a captive animal than a real live kid!

They didn't use Tranquilizers for a few reasons, A. Harambe would've taken too long to become immobilized, and could have really injured the child in the process as the drugs used may not work quickly enough depending on the stress of the situation and the dose B. Harambe would've have drowned in the moat if immobilized in the water, and possibly fallen on the boy trapping him and drowning him as well.

Many zoos have the protocol to call on their expertly trained dart team in the event of an animal escape or in the event that a human is trapped with a dangerous animal. They will evaluate the scene as quickly and as safely as possible, and will make the most informed decision as how they will handle the animal.

I can't point fingers at anyone in this situation, but we need to really evaluate the safety of the animal enclosures from the visitor side. Not impeding that view is a tough one, but there should be no way that someone can find themselves inside of an animal's exhibit.

I know one thing for sure, those keepers lost a beautiful, and I mean gorgeous silverback and friend. I feel their loss with them this week. As educators and conservators of endangered species, all we can do is shine a light on the beauty and majesty of these animals in hopes to spark a love and a need to keep them from vanishing from our planet.  Child killers, they are not. It's unfortunate for the conservation of the species, and the loss of revenue a beautiful zoo such as Cinci will lose. tragedy all around.

[Tugg Speedman]

[ChicosBailBonds]

54X the coverage per a stat today on CNN.  Priorities.

[brewcity77]

For a story to get big, it needs to be out of the ordinary. Is 6 dead over a 3 day weekend in a city of 3 million even newsworthy? I don't even think that would be all that newsworthy in Milwaukee.

[mu-rara]

For a story to get big, it needs to be out of the ordinary. Is 6 dead over a 3 day weekend in a city of 3 million even newsworthy? I don't even think that would be all that newsworthy in Milwaukee.

Maybe that's the problem?

[WarriorInNYC]

This is a tragic situation that has become altogether too frequent in the era of social media shaming.  I can attest that it is altogether too easy to lose track of one child, particularly when you are wrangling more than one, but even with only one you can turn around in a grocery store and the kid who was tugging on your pant two seconds ago whining for gummy snacks has disappeared.    My husband always joked that when the third kid came along, we went from man-to-man defense to zone (and when they started coming two at a time, we quit!). As glow said, I'm only thankful that nothing terrible happened as a result of my supposed "inattentiveness" to my children.

As a society, we are so determined to fix blame, but this is not the fault of the parents, or the zookeeper, or the gorilla (or the four year old boy, for that matter).  It was an accident in a world where we refuse to admit anymore that accidents happen, or where we acknowledge that accidents happen but we intend to use them to our advantage to profit from them.  Imagine the inverse conversation we would be having had the zookeepers decided, a'la the internet "activists," that the gorilla was far too valuable and so they did nothing and allowed the gorilla to inadvertently, or even intentionally, kill the young boy?  I have become so tired of the self righteous individuals who believe they can definitively say what a life is worth.  One could even argue that the zoo acted in its own self-interest, in this day when juries are awarding victims or their survivors tens of millions of dollars for supposed negligence that costs someone a body part or a life, even when the victim was ignoring clear safety instructions (or common sense) that resulted in their injuries.

It appears to me that the zookeepers quickly assessed the situation (as Tower said, because quick decisions were called for at this juncture) and determined that they could not end this incident and keep both of the participants safe.  It is great that all of the Twittersphere have declared themselves experts in the topic of rescuing a child from a gorilla enclosure in an emergency, but it would surprise me if a fraction of them could have reacted in the moment with a clear head and a decisive action.  And that, folks, is what separates the Tweeters from the Doers.

This is very well written.  I read an article on cnn.com the other day that had a very similar sentiment.  Why do we need to set blame here?  Lets just realize this is an unfortunate, sad incident that could have ended much worse.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/30/opinions/gorilla-zoo-death-dont-judge-mel-robbins/index.html

[buckchuckler]

Meet the Parents

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617016/EXCLUSIVE-PICTURES-parents-four-son-fell-zoo-enclosure-sparking-controversial-killing-Harambe-gorilla-emerges-father-lengthy-criminal-history.html

EXCLUSIVE: Parents-of-four whose son fell into zoo enclosure sparking killing of Harambe the gorilla as it emerges father has a lengthy criminal history - including kidnap and drug trafficking
   
These are the parents of the four-year-old boy whose 15-feet fall into the gorilla exhibit moat in Cincinnati Zoo resulted in the death of 17-year-old silverback gorilla, Harambe.

Seen here for the first time is mother Michelle Gregg, 32, who has four children by father Deonne Dickerson, 36, a man who, Daily Mail Online can disclose, has a lengthy criminal history.

Criminal filings against Dickerson stretch over a decade and include burglary, firearms offences, drug trafficking, criminal trespass, disorderly conduct and kidnap.

In 2006 he was sentenced to one year behind bars for a drug trafficking conviction.

But in numerous pictures posted on Dickerson's Facebook site in recent years he appears to have turned his life around to become the proud father of four.

Indeed, the majority of his postings to the social media site are updates of his children and his working life.

Dad wasn't even there.  Seems pretty irrelevant. 

[Pakuni]

I am not sure they needed to kill the Gorilla. I read that they did not think tranquilizers would take effect quick enough. I would think they could have wounded the Gorilla enough to get the kid.

I am Pro Gorilla and blame the parents in this case.

Wounding a gorilla while it's holding a four-year-old child seems like a terrific idea.

[warriorchick]

[Benny B]

Wounding a gorilla while it's holding a four-year-old child seems like a terrific idea.

Yeah... everybody knows you just send it a candygram instead.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/e/TK7ZvZNAiKY" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/e/TK7ZvZNAiKY</a>

[brewcity77]

Maybe that's the problem?

Could be. Having worked both sides (media and on the streets) it's really just a case of where our society is today. The reason the bloody stories are the leads on the news is because that's what people want to see, whether they admit to themselves or not. And we're at the point where it takes fantastical violence (like this gorilla) to really grasp everyone's attention. That's just the America we live in.