Lovell releases new statement re: McAdams

[GGGG]

Tenure, academic freedom.

That may be true it was the only time he was disciplined, but the university called him to the carpet on at least two other occasions for his writings in his blog.....terribly wrong on Marquette's part.  He was threatened with disciplinary action, McAdams pushed back and MU backed down.

Wrong on many levels. Not an academic freedom issue. Marquette didn't back down.

But other than that, spot on per usual.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Wrong on many levels. Not an academic freedom issue. Marquette didn't back down.

But other than that, spot on per usual.

Marquette did back down.  I believe the incident was 2011, but I'll look it up again and post.  Off to work

[keefe]

So someone who is a well known employee at GE could repeatedly criticize executive decisions in a blog without repercussions?  I would be surprised if that were the case.

That is correct. GE would NOT take an adverse action against an employee for blogging, writing letters to the editor, etc...unless they disclose GE trade secrets, competitive advantage, or the activity is done on company time using company assets.

I have said this all along: GE is far too clever. An institution like GE has many levers that can be employed that will achieve the same effect.

Start with the effect and build out your COAs that will achieve that effect with least cost. damage, and repercussion.

Effect: terminate employee

Risk factors: wrongful termination suit

COAs:

1. reassignment to Arctic Slope Science Center

2. reassignment to Kalimantan Power Grid Project (Local terms vice expat)


And let's make this clear: This has nothing to do with John McAdams. My issue is the ham fisted, amateurish manner in which every level of Marquette University handled this whole matter. Anyone who denies that the reaction was mismanaged is an idiot.

The latest stupidity is the University President Tweeting to the world about an adverse personnel action that has already been adjudicated.

And let's agree that McAdams is only "well known" because of the publicity surrounding this matter.

I can't understand how a Marquette grad can read an op ed in internationally respected news source as the WSJ and not feel  embarrassed. You don't have to agree with the opinion being expressed. The real issue is that the value of your Marquette diploma has lost luster in the eyes of the world because that is the audience that just heard the nae Marquette and it was not in any way positive.

People either get that or they don't. I don't give a sh1t about the politics of what McAdams or Abbatte said or did. The real issue for me, as a Marquette alum, is how the idiots who run our university diminished its reputation in the eyes of the world.

[Coleman]

I'm going to start a Go Fund me for McAdams, and based on the reactions to Lovell on MU's twitter from fellow MU alumni, there are going to be plenty of donations.   

I think the pitch will be....that money you were going to donate to MU this year, instead donate it to a MU professor's legal defense

Cool. Have fun. Count me out.

[GGGG]

Alright I will take your word for it keefe re GE.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm going to start a Go Fund me for McAdams, and based on the reactions to Lovell on MU's twitter from fellow MU alumni, there are going to be plenty of donations.   

I think the pitch will be....that money you were going to donate to MU this year, instead donate it to a MU professor's legal defense

You're hilarious. An authoritarian who breaks ranks based on politics and tries to pass it off as principle.

I actually agree with your conclusion on this but I don't like the way you had to twist yourself into a pretzel to get there. Squirmy.

[jsglow]

Arrrrrrrrrr.  I'm so peaved at the downright shoddy reporting on this.  Look. I agree with everything Johnny Mac said. Abate is a flaming lefty who should have been harshly rebuked by her boss. Too bad flaming lefties also run the Philosophy Department. After that it would have been the job of the Dean and then Provost. 

But unfortunately John decided to step out first and in clear violation of his contractual duty. And that was the mortal sin. Oh and btw, his personnel file was thick with repeated similar transgressions. MU decided this was the last straw.

[keefe]

Arrrrrrrrrr.  I'm so peaved at the downright shoddy reporting on this.  Look. I agree with everything Johnny Mac said. Abate is a flaming lefty who should have been harshly rebuked by her boss. Too bad flaming lefties also run the Philosophy Department. After that it would have been the job of the Dean and then Provost. 

But unfortunately John decided to step out first and in clear violation of his contractual duty. And that was the mortal sin. Oh and btw, his personnel file was thick with repeated similar transgressions. MU decided this was the last straw.

That is not the point, glow. The real issue is how Marquette managed this whole affair. The last, and in many ways worst, transgression was Lovell's tweeting about an internal personnel matter.

I don't know what the man's contract said but I do know that Marquette has been cast negatively in the eyes of the world entirely because of how they handled this.

What makes this particularly egregious is that this isn't the first major PR f#ck up but, rather, the latest in a series of very bad decisions.

You and Chick defend Marquette at every opportunity. I take that as passionate support for your alma mater.

I find fault with how Mike Lovell has chosen to engage on this matter. I submit that is equally passionate support for my alma mater.

Sultan suggested I did not see the value in my Marquette diploma. Quite the contrary, I believe that credential has served me well over the years. My concern is that the brutally bad decisions made by the Administration only serve to diminish the value of that academic background.

[warriorchick]

That is not the point, glow. The real issue is how Marquette managed this whole affair. The last, and in many ways worst, transgression was Lovell's tweeting about an internal personnel matter.

It is exactly the point. I am not going to reread this entire thread, but IIRC, you are the only one  who thinks Dr. Lovell's tweet was the worst transgression.  The rest of this thread is a rehash of the same issues.  And I don't think anyone has dug up any internet articles blasting Dr. Lovell for using Twitter.

[jsglow]

That is not the point, glow. The real issue is how Marquette managed this whole affair. The last, and in many ways worst, transgression was Lovell's tweeting about an internal personnel matter.

I don't know what the man's contract said but I do know that Marquette has been cast negatively in the eyes of the world entirely because of how they handled this.

What makes this particularly egregious is that this isn't the first major PR f#ck up but, rather, the latest in a series of very bad decisions.

You and Chick defend Marquette at every opportunity. I take that as passionate support for your alma mater.

I find fault with how Mike Lovell has chosen to engage on this matter. I submit that is equally passionate support for my alma mater.

Sultan suggested I did not see the value in my Marquette diploma. Quite the contrary, I believe that credential has served me well over the years. My concern is that the brutally bad decisions made by the Administration only serve to diminish the value of that academic background.

keefe, I don't really have a dog in the fight on the PR issue in this particular case. I will say that historically MU has been below average on that front.

[keefe]

It is exactly the point. I am not going to reread this entire thread, but IIRC, you are the only one  who thinks Dr. Lovell's tweet was the worst transgression.  The rest of this thread is a rehash of the same issues.  And I don't think anyone has dug up any internet articles blasting Dr. Lovell for using Twitter.

Lovell's tweet caused the WSJ to publish an oped piece that slams Marquette. Lovell keeps his mouth shut, as he should have since he had already made clear Marquette's position in the official announcement, and the WSJ doesn't publish the editorial.

Here is how Marquette University has appeared recently in the WSJ:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/punished-for-blogging-at-marquette-1460071026

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704324304575306812634791910

Maybe you are ok with that. As an alum of the university that had a greater impact on my life than anything else I am disgusted.

[warriorchick]

Lovell's tweet caused the WSJ to publish an oped piece that slams Marquette. Lovell keeps his mouth shut, as he should have since he had already made clear Marquette's position in the official announcement, and the WSJ doesn't publish the editorial.

Here is how Marquette University has appeared recently in the WSJ:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/punished-for-blogging-at-marquette-1460071026

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704324304575306812634791910

Maybe you are ok with that. As an alum of the university that had a greater impact on my life than anything else I am disgusted.

I guess you missed the dozens of other articles that were printed before Lovell's statement, which gave only McAdam's side of the story.

I know tons of people whose opinion of the issue  changed once they read Lovell's post. 

And at least now people in the University's camp have something to direct people to when their friends and acquaintances go off on Marquette based on incomplete information.

[Coleman]

I guess you missed the dozens of other articles that were printed before Lovell's statement, which gave only McAdam's side of the story.

I know tons of people whose opinion of the issue  changed once they read Lovell's post. 

And at least now people in the University's camp have something to direct people to when their friends and acquaintances go off on Marquette based on incomplete information.

This.

McAdams was already winning the PR spin game.

Lovell responded in a way to get the most eyeballs he could. I commend his use of social media.

[mu-rara]

Marquette handled this the way they handle any potentially embarrassing item that goes public.

They threw gas on it.

IIRC Abbate was initially correct.   I believe what she meant to convey to the student was "You're concern is not addressed in this class.  It's not a part of the discussion.  There may be another class at MU that will be more interesting to you".

Instead, what she said was "F * ck You.  Your opinion has no right to be thought in America in 2015, even though it has been the teaching of the Catholic Church since Christ was an embryo."

The student escalates by going to McAdams (immature).  McAdams escalates by blogging (wrong, but far from a fire able offense).  MU PR throws gas on it. Lovell sees an opportunity to get rid of McAdams, throwing a nuke into the mix. 

Why does Marquette insist upon handing talk radio hosts a script for days on end.  To bad there were no adults available.  Where the hell was the BOT?   Ideally, the BOT lets the Administration handle this, but obviously this got way out of hand.  I know carping about what has happened doesn't fix anything, but maybe MU PR can finally yank their head out of their collective arses.

We should never have known about this.

[Coleman]

The student escalates by going to McAdams (immature).  McAdams escalates by blogging (wrong, but far from a fire able offense).

If it was an isolated incident, maybe.

It wasn't. McAdams had been warned countless times about his antagonistic blog.

Even if it was isolated, he attacked a student.

[rocket surgeon]

  "It wasn't. McAdams had been warned countless times about his antagonistic blog. "


  really?  why?  maybe in china, but here?  re-read keefe's posts

and btw-i agree 110% with keefe on this.  i will also admit however, part of my angst comes from the bad taste left in my mouth from how they've handled situations in the past including but not limited to WARRIORS.  imho, twitter is kinda "trailer" for major universities to get out the word.  the kardashians use it quite effectively though

[Coleman]

  "It wasn't. McAdams had been warned countless times about his antagonistic blog. "


  really?  why?  maybe in china, but here?  re-read keefe's posts

and btw-i agree 110% with keefe on this.  i will also admit however, part of my angst comes from the bad taste left in my mouth from how they've handled situations in the past including but not limited to WARRIORS.  imho, twitter is kinda "trailer" for major universities to get out the word.  the kardashians use it quite effectively though

For sh!t talking the people who sign his checks. That's why. That is frowned upon in more countries than China.

[muwarrior69]

It is too bad the op-ed didn't also quote Marquette's code of conduct regarding behavior towards students that McAdams clearly violated.

I read the Code of conduct for students online. Is there one for faculty, tenured or not?

[rocket surgeon]

For sh!t talking the people who sign his checks. That's why. That is frowned upon in more countries than China.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This.

McAdams was already winning the PR spin game.

Lovell responded in a way to get the most eyeballs he could. I commend his use of social media.

Do you think Lovell's response on Twitter somehow trumps out the ink (digital or otherwise) that the WSJ brings?  Or all the links to the WSJ article will bring?

I don't think it comes close.   Keefe has a good point that at some point you just can't win against the media.  Now, if the university can get a bunch of left wing publications to counter the WSJ with their own version, then maybe that does the trick, or maybe it doesn't. 

End of the day, a lot of Catholic alumni remain curious why Catholic teachings are so frowned upon at MU, and why those teachings can't be expressed at the university without being blunted, or shut down. 

[muwarrior69]

Arrrrrrrrrr.  I'm so peaved at the downright shoddy reporting on this.  Look. I agree with everything Johnny Mac said. Abate is a flaming lefty who should have been harshly rebuked by her boss. Too bad flaming lefties also run the Philosophy Department. After that it would have been the job of the Dean and then Provost. 

But unfortunately John decided to step out first and in clear violation of his contractual duty. And that was the mortal sin. Oh and btw, his personnel file was thick with repeated similar transgressions. MU decided this was the last straw.

Do you really think she would have been rebuked by her boss in a Department run by "flaming lefties"? Do you really think the student would have been able to discuss "gay marriage" in class? If McAdams kept quiet would the student's complaint been addressed to his (i.e. the student's) satisfaction or told to drop the class? Please give me insight into McAdams' other transgressions as I'm not familiar with those.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Do you really think she would have been rebuked by her boss in a Department run by "flaming lefties"? Do you really think the student would have been able to discuss "gay marriage" in class? If McAdams kept quiet would the student's complaint been addressed to his (i.e. the student's) satisfaction or told to drop the class? Please give me insight into McAdams' other transgressions as I'm not familiar with those.

2011 there was this incident where MU threatened McAdams, and then they backed off.   http://www.cardinalnewmansociety.org/CatholicEducationDaily/DetailsPage/tabid/102/ArticleID/387/marquette-prof-threatened-about-blog-reporting-on-student-activities.aspx


Also mentioned here   http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-02-10/free-speech-and-marquette-s-ivory-tower

[jsglow]

Do you really think she would have been rebuked by her boss in a Department run by "flaming lefties"? Do you really think the student would have been able to discuss "gay marriage" in class? If McAdams kept quiet would the student's complaint been addressed to his (i.e. the student's) satisfaction or told to drop the class? Please give me insight into McAdams' other transgressions as I'm not familiar with those.

To answer your question,  no, the Philosophy Department would not have addressed the issue in my opinion.  But I sincerely believe that the Dean would have if given the chance.  As an example,  recall how quickly the mural was dealt with.

[muwarrior69]

To answer your question,  no, the Philosophy Department would not have addressed the issue in my opinion.  But I sincerely believe that the Dean would have if given the chance.  As an example,  recall how quickly the mural was dealt with.

....again after McAdams made it public knowledge in his blog. Would it have come down otherwise?

[jsglow]

I'm simply not willing to replace an approved process with a self-appointed defacto omsbudman. Perhaps we disagree. That's fine.