Best case/worst case for 16-17

[BM1090]

Well then you're just being silly.  College age kids change quite a lot from year to year.

Ohio State and Washington are the only other two teams as young as we are in power conferences. Both are likely to miss the tournament. Washington for sure is out, OSU has a chance. OSU has had back to back top 10 recruiting classes. They won 1 game in the tournament last year. Probably will miss it this year.

It's not an excuse, it's reality. Unless you're getting 3-4 top 25 kids like Kentucky and Duke, then youth is a real problem. And even Kentucky missed the tournament (2012?) with 3/4 top 25 freshmen.

[79Warrior]

At this point I wish I shared 2% of the optimism for next season as many on here feel. We cannot afford to lose any additional player than HE and need some incoming recruits big time. I had high hope this year and much was based off Wojo's ability to get the most out of every player in every game. Being young means nothing to me and really just an excuse.

This year was another wasted year IMO. Without HE this year we would have been a .500 or worse team. I hope that pessimistic view is completely wrong and Wojo surprises me next season. Again, they cannot afford to let any player leave or we will be in trouble.

This. If HE leaves, expect a repeat of this season. We will be a much smaller team. As usual, way to much expectation that every player makes big strides forward. I think HC and TC have tremendous upside. JJJ has really turned it around. Without HE and assuming Wojo does not get a PF, that will not be enough to get MU into the upper half of BE.

[Goose]

Golden

I very well may have the dirt creeping up my ankles, my desire for one more jolly is as far from the truth as anything I have read on here. While you may think I am an old guy that lives in past MU glory and I would not argue that point hard with you. That said, this guy ankle deep in dirt has been a supporter, friend to and fan of the program for a long period of time and never wear rose colored glasses. Many on here, and I would include you, have different goals or wants from the program than I do and I respect that.

In addition, to this being a wasted season, it was beyond a waste IMO. To have all the pieces you noted and an alltime great MU Freshmen and we are an NIT bubble team. I do agree on the BE being mediocre, yet I find that troubling to be associated with as a program. We were sub .500 team in a crappy conference.

Again, I will add again, I sure hope that the program only loses HE moving forward or next year is a disaster.

[mu03eng]

Which "firepower" do you think would leave? I see 2 obvious possible transfers (Sandy, Sacar) and wouldn't classify either one of them as firepower.

Just because they are obvious doesn't mean they are likely. Could be other possible transfers that aren't obvious, who knows.

Hell, Henry could stay and Wally transfer for all we know at this point.


I think best/worst case should be framed from the what we do not the how we do it. I don't care if every single player transfers and we bring in a whole new team, if we win the NC I'm fine with it.

With that, I think the best case is a deep NCAA run after finishing top 4 in the Big East.

Worst case is finishing in the bottom 4 of the Big East again and missing the NCAA. If we go 4 years in row without dancing....there will be some serious questioning within the program me thinks.

[BM1090]

Golden

I very well may have the dirt creeping up my ankles, my desire for one more jolly is as far from the truth as anything I have read on here. While you may think I am an old guy that lives in past MU glory and I would not argue that point hard with you. That said, this guy ankle deep in dirt has been a supporter, friend to and fan of the program for a long period of time and never wear rose colored glasses. Many on here, and I would include you, have different goals or wants from the program than I do and I respect that.

In addition, to this being a wasted season, it was beyond a waste IMO. To have all the pieces you noted and an alltime great MU Freshmen and we are an NIT bubble team. I do agree on the BE being mediocre, yet I find that troubling to be associated with as a program. We were sub .500 team in a crappy conference.

Again, I will add again, I sure hope that the program only loses HE moving forward or next year is a disaster.

We're calling a conference that gets half it's teams into the tournament a "crappy conference now"? Come on. We have two elite teams. Three good, solid NCAA teams. 3 teams that performed very well against other power conference schools out of conference. And two bottom feeders.

I can understand the disappointment in this season even if I don't necessarily agree with it. However, calling the Big East a crappy conference is ridiculous. It's the 2nd best conference we've ever been in (behind the old Big East) and a top 4 conference in the country.

We're just going to ignore that the conference excelled against other conferences this year and make wild proclamations? If that's the case then there's no debate to be had.

[Big Papi]

Well then you're just being silly.  College age kids change quite a lot from year to year.

They don't instantly change overnight from one year to the next.  A young, talented, well coached team should have improved a lot throughout the year and improved more than most older teams.  That has not happened.  Add to the fact that we had a Europe trip thrown in there so extra practices and games so the inexperienced excuse is rather tiresome.  I expected early season troubles and a strong finish.  That has not been the case. 

We had the talent to be a NCAA bubble team this year.  Instead we are a bubble team for the NIT at best and more realistically no post season tournament for 3 years running.

Best case scenario: HE stays and we squeeze into the NCAA tourney as a 9/10 seed.
Worst case scenario: HE leaves, additional transfers, we are a bubble NIT team and Admin gives Wojo another 1-year contract extension because we have good wholesome kids in our program.

[bilsu]

Best case should be as least reasonably possible.
No one but Henry leaves.
No significant injuries.
We do not lose games like DePaul on last second shot.
Howard and another player join MU team.
JJJ and Carter take big step up.
Fischer learns not to get stupid fouls.
Team gets to Elite 8.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

They don't instantly change overnight from one year to the next.  A young, talented, well coached team should have improved a lot throughout the year and improved more than most older teams.  That has not happened.  Add to the fact that we had a Europe trip thrown in there so extra practices and games so the inexperienced excuse is rather tiresome.  I expected early season troubles and a strong finish.  That has not been the case. 

We had the talent to be a NCAA bubble team this year.  Instead we are a bubble team for the NIT at best and more realistically no post season tournament for 3 years running.

Best case scenario: HE stays and we squeeze into the NCAA tourney as a 9/10 seed.
Worst case scenario: HE leaves, additional transfers, we are a bubble NIT team and Admin gives Wojo another 1-year contract extension because we have good wholesome kids in our program.

You're right they don't change magically overnight. They change with hard work and practice, the kind that you get in the 8 months of offseason. Teams rarely improve greatly during a season. However, this team did. You are just putting blinders on and saying we didn't. The team at the end of the season was twice the team that started the season. If we played Belmont again we would wipe the floor with them. The stats show it to. I'm too lazy to find the graphic but Henry Sugar showed a chart that showed that we have been trending up all season.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Best Case- MH bulks up and becomes a rebounding machine as SC wakes up and contributes. The rest perform as we hope
Worst Case-. Real Chili comes down with a Chipotle scenario with ptomane and norovirus outbreaks

[keefe]

Just because they are obvious doesn't mean they are likely. Could be other possible transfers that aren't obvious, who knows.

Hell, Henry could stay and Wally transfer for all we know at this point.


I think best/worst case should be framed from the what we do not the how we do it. I don't care if every single player transfers and we bring in a whole new team, if we win the NC I'm fine with it.

With that, I think the best case is a deep NCAA run after finishing top 4 in the Big East.

Worst case is finishing in the bottom 4 of the Big East again and missing the NCAA. If we go 4 years in row without dancing....there will be some serious questioning within the program me thinks.

Rebuilds are haphazard. I have three alma maters and one of them turned the reins over to an unproven man after the previous guy gutted the program in many ways. That process has had success in a number of areas though not on the court.

Another hired a leader with a proven track record and has turned the program around both on and off the field. This guy has recently notched a Top 5 recruiting class and the pundits are predicting a National Title in the near future.

But the real difference is within the fan base. At Marquette, we are shedding season ticket holders and the lack of enthusiasm is palpable. People on Scoop are debating why playing in the Vegas 16 is a good opportunity while lamenting the many holes in our line up.

In Ann Arbor, alums are buying tickets and pouring money into the football program. Fans are asking not if but when the coach wins the National Title.

Marquette may be on track to becoming relevant again and I genuinely hope that is true. But there is no certainty about end game in Milwaukee.

At Michigan there is no question that the program is not only relevant but vital.

I am not suggesting that these cases are directly correlated. But there is a huge difference in fan enthusiasm and I am saddened that Marquette cannot experience the rebound happening with Michigan football.



 

[Goose]

Keefe


Spot on, once again. I am very worried about the downward spiral in fan excitement. Three years of subpar performance has made the natives restless. In conversations recently with real backers, I have never felt a more negative vibe. The most positive of the conversations revolves around the rebuilding process and how it takes time. Trust me that I fully get that and respect that. At the moment I do not feel like rebuilding is in play, but rather, a very slow decline is happening.

[Earl Tatum]

I don't care who leaves or stays, BUT, GET AT LEAST 2 OR 3  PLAYERS 6-9 OR ABOVE WORTHY
OF PLAYING BE BASKETBALL. Sandy, Sacar, Wally and hope not Henry, Good Bye.

[bilsu]

I don't care who leaves or stays, BUT, GET AT LEAST 2 OR 3  PLAYERS 6-9 OR ABOVE WORTHY
OF PLAYING BE BASKETBALL. Sandy, Sacar, Wally and hope not Henry, Good Bye.

I think there is no chance of Henry staying, if Wally is leaving.

[mu03eng]

Rebuilds are haphazard. I have three alma maters and one of them turned the reins over to an unproven man after the previous guy gutted the program in many ways. That process has had success in a number of areas though not on the court.

Another hired a leader with a proven track record and has turned the program around both on and off the field. This guy has recently notched a Top 5 recruiting class and the pundits are predicting a National Title in the near future.

But the real difference is within the fan base. At Marquette, we are shedding season ticket holders and the lack of enthusiasm is palpable. People on Scoop are debating why playing in the Vegas 16 is a good opportunity while lamenting the many holes in our line up.

In Ann Arbor, alums are buying tickets and pouring money into the football program. Fans are asking not if but when the coach wins the National Title.

Marquette may be on track to becoming relevant again and I genuinely hope that is true. But there is no certainty about end game in Milwaukee.

At Michigan there is no question that the program is not only relevant but vital.

I am not suggesting that these cases are directly correlated. But there is a huge difference in fan enthusiasm and I am saddened that Marquette cannot experience the rebound happening with Michigan football.



 

This where I think the HE recruitment actually hurt Marquette. I feel victim to the overhype game and too high of expectations as much as anyone else. Given where the program was last year and where it is this year at the end of the season has been a significant improvement(both statistically and with the eye test), however it definitely hasn't matched where we thought it should be.

Time will tell whether where we thought we should be was right and Wojo missed or if Wojo got the max out and prepared us for the following year.

The comparison to Michigan, while I get it, I think does a disservice to what Marquette is facing and what they have in their toolbelt versus Michigan. Michigan is a top 10 all-time program that has had some struggles but never lost their vibe, people want to play at Michigan if they get competent. Marquette is a top 40 all time program that is one of a dozen programs like it that people what to play for but don't have to play for.

I think we as Marquette fans overvalue our basketball brand within the greater basketball community. For Marquette the coaching staff is always going to be more important than the Marquette brand.....the same can't be said for Michigan football or Kentucky basketball or Duke basketball, etc.

[RushmoreAcademy]

We need 40 haikus implying that Henry is leaving so that way the exact opposite happens.

[MU82]

Best case: We win national title.

Worst case: We lose national title game on tip-in at buzzer.

[MomofMUltiples]

If our only comparison for this year was last year, we would all be pleased as punch at the progress. Yet people insist on holding this team up to 2013, or 2003, or 1977, and see only disappointment.  We've become a society of instant gratification, where anything absent overnight success is a failure.  We use this concept to speculate that a freshman player who has no known concern with his role on the team will transfer because he didn't get playing time.  Guess what?  Not all freshman play.  Heck, David Robinson's kid is currently redshirting at Duke! 

Some kids who don't have NBA prospects are just looking for a good college playing experience with a solid team. Or a free college education by way of their athletic ability. And some teams fall apart and need to be rebuilt from the ground up.  That takes time if you want to do it right.  Imagine a team three years from now, with Traci, Haani and Sacar as senior leaders, Brendan Bailey and continued quality recruiting by Wojo.  I'm looking forward to it.  And I, too, believe that Haani and Traci with another year of training and experience will eliminate many of the mistakes that could've lost games for us but for Henry's performance.

One thing about instant gratification is that it can work to Marquettes advantage if this rebuild goes well.  Nothing brings students and fans back to the arena like a winning team.

[jsglow]

If our only comparison for this year was last year, we would all be pleased as punch at the progress. Yet people insist on holding this team up to 2013, or 2003, or 1977, and see only disappointment.  We've become a society of instant gratification, where anything absent overnight success is a failure.  We use this concept to speculate that a freshman player who has no known concern with his role on the team will transfer because he didn't get playing time.  Guess what?  Not all freshman play.  Heck, David Robinson's kid is currently redshirting at Duke! 

Some kids who don't have NBA prospects are just looking for a good college playing experience with a solid team. Or a free college education by way of their athletic ability. And some teams fall apart and need to be rebuilt from the ground up.  That takes time if you want to do it right.  Imagine a team three years from now, with Traci, Haani and Sacar as senior leaders, Brendan Bailey and continued quality recruiting by Wojo.  I'm looking forward to it.  And I, too, believe that Haani and Traci with another year of training and experience will eliminate many of the mistakes that could've lost games for us but for Henry's performance.

One thing about instant gratification is that it can work to Marquettes advantage if this rebuild goes well.  Nothing brings students and fans back to the arena like a winning team.

Intelligent women are awesome. 

[warriorchick]

If our only comparison for this year was last year, we would all be pleased as punch at the progress. Yet people insist on holding this team up to 2013, or 2003, or 1977, and see only disappointment.  We've become a society of instant gratification, where anything absent overnight success is a failure.  We use this concept to speculate that a freshman player who has no known concern with his role on the team will transfer because he didn't get playing time.  Guess what?  Not all freshman play.  Heck, David Robinson's kid is currently redshirting at Duke! 

Some kids who don't have NBA prospects are just looking for a good college playing experience with a solid team. Or a free college education by way of their athletic ability. And some teams fall apart and need to be rebuilt from the ground up.  That takes time if you want to do it right.  Imagine a team three years from now, with Traci, Haani and Sacar as senior leaders, Brendan Bailey and continued quality recruiting by Wojo.  I'm looking forward to it.  And I, too, believe that Haani and Traci with another year of training and experience will eliminate many of the mistakes that could've lost games for us but for Henry's performance.

One thing about instant gratification is that it can work to Marquettes advantage if this rebuild goes well.  Nothing brings students and fans back to the arena like a winning team.

[BM1090]

If our only comparison for this year was last year, we would all be pleased as punch at the progress. Yet people insist on holding this team up to 2013, or 2003, or 1977, and see only disappointment.  We've become a society of instant gratification, where anything absent overnight success is a failure.  We use this concept to speculate that a freshman player who has no known concern with his role on the team will transfer because he didn't get playing time.  Guess what?  Not all freshman play.  Heck, David Robinson's kid is currently redshirting at Duke! 

Some kids who don't have NBA prospects are just looking for a good college playing experience with a solid team. Or a free college education by way of their athletic ability. And some teams fall apart and need to be rebuilt from the ground up.  That takes time if you want to do it right.  Imagine a team three years from now, with Traci, Haani and Sacar as senior leaders, Brendan Bailey and continued quality recruiting by Wojo.  I'm looking forward to it.  And I, too, believe that Haani and Traci with another year of training and experience will eliminate many of the mistakes that could've lost games for us but for Henry's performance.

One thing about instant gratification is that it can work to Marquettes advantage if this rebuild goes well.  Nothing brings students and fans back to the arena like a winning team.

This is what I was trying to say but you use your words better than I can. +1

[Goose]

Mom

Well thought out post. That said, not everyone (me) needs instant gratification regarding the program. I fully understand the work involved in the process and know it takes time. My comments/feelings are based off my opinion on a wide range of items. The one that jumps out to me the most is the lack of excitement by the students and the support of the program by alumni. Usually when there is smoke, there is fire and in this case the smoke is another year of declining attendance. I have seen ups and downs in the program for a long time and know what a rebuild looks like. Usually by year two EVERYONE is jacked up, attending games, talking up the program and excited for the future. Currently I see or hear none of that excitement, aside from several on here.

Again, I respect your post and comments but I just do not see it. Just because Sultan or TAMU or whoever say the guys will be better next year does mean that is going to happen. I could list a lot of players that were going to be better next year and were not over the past 30 years. There is not enough talent returning to make a run at anything next season.

[rocky_warrior]

There is not enough talent returning to make a run at anything next season.

Said Seton Hall fans last year...

[KampusFoods]

This board is so depressing right now but I can't stop coming to it. Dammit scoop why can't I quit you!

[warriorchick]

This board is so depressing right now but I can't stop coming to it. Dammit scoop why can't I quit you!

RK in April:

[KampusFoods]

RK in April:

Accurate. Hopefully we get some much-needed good Markus Howard news in April though.