Dayton

[bilsu]

The Big East most likely will get four bids this year, but is in danger of getting only three. MU beating Creighton, and Butler and Providence losing a couple more games could leave the Big East with only three bids. Big East needs 12 teams to have a reasonable chance of getting 6 bids every year. The NCAA tournament adds prestige to the conference and brings in money. A 3 bid season might give the Big East incentive to expand.

[MU82]

meh

[Herman Cain]

Big East is going to remain its current configuration for the foreseeable future. There is no interest or desire among the schools to add new members. The double round robin format is well received, the TV contract is set and so far we have averaged 5 NCAA bids a year which will lead to serious dollars over the next few years. Finally the conference Presidents  are keen on the fact that the schools involved are like minded and similar in overall scope. The objective of building a recognized Big East academic brand is a long term objective of the Presidents. There is plenty of room in the non conference schedule for all the teams to schedule quality opponents if that is desired.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Went over to UDpride for shiggles just now. They had a topic on Big 12 expansion and some are still flabbergasted that they didn't get a Big East invite lol.

[PE8983]

Lived between Cinci and Dayton for 14 yrs.  UD fans are in a different world.  Feel they are slighted on everything.  Can't grasp that they are a mid-major or in that type of conference.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

The Big East most likely will get four bids this year, but is in danger of getting only three. MU beating Creighton, and Butler and Providence losing a couple more games could leave the Big East with only three bids. Big East needs 12 teams to have a reasonable chance of getting 6 bids every year. The NCAA tournament adds prestige to the conference and brings in money. A 3 bid season might give the Big East incentive to expand.

Zero percent chance BE only gets 3 teams. Low chance they only get 4. High chance they get 5 and small chance they get 6.

Take your BE hate hat off and use your damn brain.

[Goatherder]

Goatherder:

I am interested in knowing why you are an expert on this subject.

I'm not saying you aren't. Maybe you are best friends with a dozen "in-the-know" types from Fox, the Big East and Big East schools. Or maybe you're not.

You make a lot of definitive, "I know I'm right and everybody else is wrong" statements. Just curious why you are to be believed more than others.

No, just read the articles available and drew my own conclusions, like everybody else.  But others have pointed out that "it is 100% guaranteed that the conference has considered and is considering _____  and would take them in a minute."  The break-up was about football - pure and simple.  No way the Catholic 7 wanted to play Central Florida.  And it was clear that the decisions in the conference were being made with the intention of putting together a viable football conference, at whatever cost to basketball. 

Immediately when the split was announced, Xavier and Butler were mentioned.  The former Marquette AD took an active role in putting the new conference together.  So after holding a press conference announcing the new conference and answering the question about Xavier and Butler by saying nothing had been decided, he was standing in the media room cheering fiercely as Butler knocked off #1 Indiana.  Clearly, Butler and Xavier were a done deal.

Someone posted an article last year that I wish I had kept about how Creighton got in.  It did have to do with Jebbie connections and the suggestion by the administrators at one school that Creighton might want to pursue the matter, and that their location would not put them out of contention.  The article went into detail about what happened next.  No where was it suggested that the conference approached or considered VCU, Wichita State, or any other public institution.  Immediately after the line-up was announced, the commissioner said that the conference had no plans to expand in the near future, so it sure does not look like SLU or Dayton were waiting in the wings until they got their invite. 

So if someone out there really can 100% guarantee that the conference is looking to expand, or that it is considering large state universities, or that it is considering schools with football teams, I would love to see what information they have, but I question whether anyone has any, other than the fact that it seems obvious to them.

[MU82]

No, just read the articles available and drew my own conclusions, like everybody else.  But others have pointed out that "it is 100% guaranteed that the conference has considered and is considering _____  and would take them in a minute."  The break-up was about football - pure and simple.  No way the Catholic 7 wanted to play Central Florida.  And it was clear that the decisions in the conference were being made with the intention of putting together a viable football conference, at whatever cost to basketball. 

Immediately when the split was announced, Xavier and Butler were mentioned.  The former Marquette AD took an active role in putting the new conference together.  So after holding a press conference announcing the new conference and answering the question about Xavier and Butler by saying nothing had been decided, he was standing in the media room cheering fiercely as Butler knocked off #1 Indiana.  Clearly, Butler and Xavier were a done deal.

Someone posted an article last year that I wish I had kept about how Creighton got in.  It did have to do with Jebbie connections and the suggestion by the administrators at one school that Creighton might want to pursue the matter, and that their location would not put them out of contention.  The article went into detail about what happened next.  No where was it suggested that the conference approached or considered VCU, Wichita State, or any other public institution.  Immediately after the line-up was announced, the commissioner said that the conference had no plans to expand in the near future, so it sure does not look like SLU or Dayton were waiting in the wings until they got their invite. 

So if someone out there really can 100% guarantee that the conference is looking to expand, or that it is considering large state universities, or that it is considering schools with football teams, I would love to see what information they have, but I question whether anyone has any, other than the fact that it seems obvious to them.

OK, thanks for the honest answer.

And yes, there are quite a few Scoopers who pretty much claim to know everything about everything. If you haven't already done so, pull on your Hazmat suit and wade into the politics board sometime. You'll really find experts on everything over there! And then you'll need a long shower, because the Hazmat suit won't have totally protected you.

A few really do have some insider intel, but most don't -- about basketball or anything else.

In the end, your opinion on all of this is no more "right" than mine or Sultan's or TAMU's or anybody else's. And it certainly could be more "wrong."

[GGGG]

The BE and Fox are partners.  The BE isn't going to consider expansion without consulting Fox.  Fox isn't going to "dictate" who the BE takes if it decides to expand.  I don't think either party is all that interested in expansion.  The BE isn't drawing numbers for Fox so they don't want to pay more $$$ to the conference.  The BE isn't going to expand unless it increases their per school pay out. 

I think Goathearder is right that IF expansion occurs, they will be looking at the exact same type of schools that are currently in the BE.  Private schools.  No football.  Perhaps they will budge on the first.  I don't see any way they budge on the second.

Of course the college sports landscape could change again before the next TV contract is negotiated which could throw the current model out the window.  But in the short term, I don't see any changes.  No need for them.

[MU82]

Of course the college sports landscape could change again before the next TV contract is negotiated which could throw the current model out the window.  But in the short term, I don't see any changes.  No need for them.

This. Totally this. Nothing more even needs to be said on the subject. (But that won't stop us!)

[Pakuni]

Well first, there are lots of rumors about what ESPN might have done or not done to get teams to move.  They are just that - theories.

When the athletic director at Boston College is quoted as saying "TV – ESPN – is the one who told us what to do" in regards to expansion, I consider that more than a rumor or a theory.

http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/mens_basketball/articles/2011/10/09/power_move_by_acc/?page=full

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

"it is 100% guaranteed that the conference has considered and is considering _____  and would take them in a minute."

Fify.

[Mr. Nielsen]

It was once reported that when the Big East goes to 12 schools, that the FS1 contract goes to 600 million.

[VegasWarrior77]

It was once reported that when the Big East goes to 12 schools, that the FS1 contract goes to 600 million.

What is it now?

[GGGG]

It was once reported that when the Big East goes to 12 schools, that the FS1 contract goes to 600 million.

Right. But I'm sure Fox has a say in that. I can't imagine they would simply allow the conference to write a check to itself.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It was once reported that when the Big East goes to 12 schools, that the FS1 contract goes to 600 million.

If Fox approves of the two schools

[NorthernDancerColt]

If Fox approves of the two schools

Sultan brought up the lack of numbers coming in for Fox off the BigEast contract, and Greska of PaintTouches wrote a piece on this. I think the numbers are a chicken/egg genesis issue. So many non BE-alum people are just now finding FS1 on their cable menu, so I don't think that the low ratings reflect on generic college hoops fans' perceptions of the Big East product. In fact, I think the conference is already establishing stand-out branding. Example...last week I was in a high school gym watching a couple rising stars, when I overheard my coach buddy's extremely knowledgeable friend say how he laments that ESPN college hoops has become boring football school matchups. I jumped in the convo and asked if he ever watches the BigEast on FS1. He responded, "That conference and that network epitomize what pure college basketball is all about." His quote made my day. Get this...he was a Badger alum, so it càught me off guard, er Gard.  So, I think Fox should go "full steam ahead" with its SOUL OF HOOPS marketing paradigm.  I think great things are in store for our beloved BigEast!
   I will grant that ESPN has had a few great Big12 matchups this year, but I have seen some real ACC "stinkers", and tonight's lineup was: Alabama, yawn, at Kentucky on the mainframe, LSU (LEBRON! KOBE! TIGER! SIMMONS!!!) at Arkansas...Temple at Tulsa on EspnNews...Michigan St at OhioState on the football mainframe...Kansas at gridiron rich Baylor (unenthusiastic fans) on the deuce...and drum roll...TCU at Texas Tech (heeehaw, six shooooters!!) Oops, I forgot...The fighting Buzztones of YahooTech at BC. Wake me when this pigskin carnival wraps up....yawn

[jsglow]

No, just read the articles available and drew my own conclusions, like everybody else.  But others have pointed out that "it is 100% guaranteed that the conference has considered and is considering _____  and would take them in a minute."  The break-up was about football - pure and simple.  No way the Catholic 7 wanted to play Central Florida.  And it was clear that the decisions in the conference were being made with the intention of putting together a viable football conference, at whatever cost to basketball. 

Immediately when the split was announced, Xavier and Butler were mentioned.  The former Marquette AD took an active role in putting the new conference together.  So after holding a press conference announcing the new conference and answering the question about Xavier and Butler by saying nothing had been decided, he was standing in the media room cheering fiercely as Butler knocked off #1 Indiana.  Clearly, Butler and Xavier were a done deal.

Someone posted an article last year that I wish I had kept about how Creighton got in.  It did have to do with Jebbie connections and the suggestion by the administrators at one school that Creighton might want to pursue the matter, and that their location would not put them out of contention.  The article went into detail about what happened next.  No where was it suggested that the conference approached or considered VCU, Wichita State, or any other public institution.  Immediately after the line-up was announced, the commissioner said that the conference had no plans to expand in the near future, so it sure does not look like SLU or Dayton were waiting in the wings until they got their invite. 

So if someone out there really can 100% guarantee that the conference is looking to expand, or that it is considering large state universities, or that it is considering schools with football teams, I would love to see what information they have, but I question whether anyone has any, other than the fact that it seems obvious to them.

From my limited 'inside' knowledge the bolded is what I believe I understand.

Let me add a couple of actual facts:

1) Senior Butler administrators accompanied Fr. Pilarz and Larry Williams on the private jet flying from Lexington to New York (or was it DC?) and back as the final deal was taking shape during the NCAA.  I've forgotten some of the details but I was in direct contact with BOTH sides of that in real time down in LEX.

2) Creighton was IN in part because then Pres. Tim Lannon SJ was very tight with the MU BOT and was extremely helpful in convincing laggard Jesuit member Georgetown to join the C-7.  I'm forgetting all the exact timing but my recollection is that it wasn't yet a totally #donedeal.  Recall that Tim had been Advancements EVP at MU but had not been actively considered for the MU opening when Fr. Wild announced his retirement.  Within days after Pilarz was announced, Tim was announced at Creighton.  I don't believe there was any bad blood and I know nothing about those behind the scenes dealings.  The point I'm making is that GTown had to be brought in kicking and screaming and that Lannon really helped. Note that Dan Hendrickson SJ (MU '93) is now Creighton's president further solidifying the symbiotic relationship between our two schools.

Now for pure speculation.

Note that 2/3 of the new additions to the conference were Jesuit schools.  I believe those behind the scenes connections were critical to the overall deal.  I've always heard directly from reliable sources that Nova has historically blocked St. Joseph's, that Gonzaga has been viewed as 'impractical on almost ever level', that SLU simply isn't worthy despite being a new TV market.  Who knows what the future holds but I really believe we're holding strong at 10 for the foreseeable future unless something changes relative to the original dynamic.  I have no knowledge of any Fox influence going forward and whether they'd like it bigger or not. 

[brewcity77]

Now for pure speculation.

Note that 2/3 of the new additions to the conference were Jesuit schools.  I believe those behind the scenes connections were critical to the overall deal.  I've always heard directly from reliable sources that Nova has historically blocked St. Joseph's, that Gonzaga has been viewed as 'impractical on almost ever level', that SLU simply isn't worthy despite being a new TV market.  Who knows what the future holds but I really believe we're holding strong at 10 for the foreseeable future unless something changes relative to the original dynamic.  I have no knowledge of any Fox influence going forward and whether they'd like it bigger or not.

May be pure speculation, but it seems like pretty much the most accurate assessment of things. If the league wanted to expand for the sake of it, they easily could have. They could pull SLU and Dayton in a heartbeat. But unless there's some "too good to refuse" style offer out there, why expand?

Expanding for the television revenue? I'm sure it would be prorated, and going from $500M for 10 schools to $600M for 12 schools is adding...well...nothing because each school still gets $50M over the length of the deal. Yes, you could give lower shares to new members, but is that extra money prorated worth taking a lesser quality of program?

I stand by my feelings about Dayton. They would be a great secondary addition if there is a school we can't possibly refuse. If UConn dropped to DII football, if Notre Dame decided they don't like the ACC arrangement for their football and went back to independent, if Gonzaga realized they would be better off relocating their campus to Chicago, if one of those alternate reality-style situations occurred, then fine, take Dayton to get an even number.

Otherwise, the Flyers are fine where they are. If for no other reason than because if and when we do choose to expand, we know they would beg so desperately to be included that once #11 became obvious, #12 would just be a finger-wag away.

[Eldon]

From my limited 'inside' knowledge the bolded is what I believe I understand.

Let me add a couple of actual facts:

1) Senior Butler administrators accompanied Fr. Pilarz and Larry Williams on the private jet flying from Lexington to New York (or was it DC?) and back as the final deal was taking shape during the NCAA.  I've forgotten some of the details but I was in direct contact with BOTH sides of that in real time down in LEX.

2) Creighton was IN in part because then Pres. Tim Lannon SJ was very tight with the MU BOT and was extremely helpful in convincing laggard Jesuit member Georgetown to join the C-7.  I'm forgetting all the exact timing but my recollection is that it wasn't yet a totally #donedeal.  Recall that Tim had been Advancements EVP at MU but had not been actively considered for the MU opening when Fr. Wild announced his retirement.  Within days after Pilarz was announced, Tim was announced at Creighton.  I don't believe there was any bad blood and I know nothing about those behind the scenes dealings.  The point I'm making is that GTown had to be brought in kicking and screaming and that Lannon really helped. Note that Dan Hendrickson SJ (MU '93) is now Creighton's president further solidifying the symbiotic relationship between our two schools.

Now for pure speculation.

Note that 2/3 of the new additions to the conference were Jesuit schools.  I believe those behind the scenes connections were critical to the overall deal.  I've always heard directly from reliable sources that Nova has historically blocked St. Joseph's, that Gonzaga has been viewed as 'impractical on almost ever level', that SLU simply isn't worthy despite being a new TV market.  Who knows what the future holds but I really believe we're holding strong at 10 for the foreseeable future unless something changes relative to the original dynamic.  I have no knowledge of any Fox influence going forward and whether they'd like it bigger or not.

Kicking and screaming?!?

What the hell was Gtown going to do? Stay in the American, playing the likes of ECU?

I'm working with hindsight here, but even back then the C-7 was clearly the best option, possibly the only real option.

[brewcity77]

Kicking and screaming?!?

What the hell was Gtown going to do? Stay in the American, playing the likes of ECU?

I'm working with hindsight here, but even back then the C-7 was clearly the best option, possibly the only real option.

From what I remember, Georgetown seemed to think that with Notre Dame headed to the ACC, they might be able to garner a similar, basketball-only invite.

[jsglow]

May be pure speculation, but it seems like pretty much the most accurate assessment of things. If the league wanted to expand for the sake of it, they easily could have. They could pull SLU and Dayton in a heartbeat. But unless there's some "too good to refuse" style offer out there, why expand?

Expanding for the television revenue? I'm sure it would be prorated, and going from $500M for 10 schools to $600M for 12 schools is adding...well...nothing because each school still gets $50M over the length of the deal. Yes, you could give lower shares to new members, but is that extra money prorated worth taking a lesser quality of program?

I stand by my feelings about Dayton. They would be a great secondary addition if there is a school we can't possibly refuse. If UConn dropped to DII football, if Notre Dame decided they don't like the ACC arrangement for their football and went back to independent, if Gonzaga realized they would be better off relocating their campus to Chicago, if one of those alternate reality-style situations occurred, then fine, take Dayton to get an even number.

Otherwise, the Flyers are fine where they are. If for no other reason than because if and when we do choose to expand, we know they would beg so desperately to be included that once #11 became obvious, #12 would just be a finger-wag away.

All I was trying to do brew is distinguish between what I know and what I believe.  I know you understand.   

[jsglow]

Kicking and screaming?!?

What the hell was Gtown going to do? Stay in the American, playing the likes of ECU?

I'm working with hindsight here, but even back then the C-7 was clearly the best option, possibly the only real option.

Yep.  I think they had hoped ACC would call.  But 'kicking and screaming' is a fact. The deal almost didn't happen.  And while I know many of you hate Larry, don't underestimate his role.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

From what I remember, Georgetown seemed to think that with Notre Dame headed to the ACC, they might be able to garner a similar, basketball-only invite.

Correct

[GGGG]

From what I remember, Georgetown seemed to think that with Notre Dame headed to the ACC, they might be able to garner a similar, basketball-only invite.

Can't blame 'em for trying.  If they wanted to take Marquette along with Gtown and Nova, I would have been all over that.