MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Coleman on February 08, 2016, 01:28:53 PM
-
#19 in the country.
Can the conference please stop messing around and get them and VCU into the Big East?
-
#19 in the country.
Can the conference please stop messing around and get them and VCU into the Big East?
Why?
-
How would 4 ranked teams (instead of 3), and 7 teams in the projected NCAA field (instead of 5) be anything other than a positive?
-
Nah. Keep this conference at 10 - unless UCONN drops football.
Don't fix what isn't broken.
-
Unless there's a way to bring back UConn, Cincinnati or another big-time program, don't bother with expansion. The Big East doesn't need to be in the business of promoting mid-majors. If they're going to expand, it should do so by bringing in strong, established high major programs.
-
How would 4 ranked teams (instead of 3), and 7 teams in the projected NCAA field (instead of 5) be anything other than a positive?
Hey, great idea! Every year, let's send out invites to anyone who made the Top 25 at least once.
-
How would 4 ranked teams (instead of 3), and 7 teams in the projected NCAA field (instead of 5) be anything other than a positive?
Except if Dayton was in our conference, they wouldn't be ranked. They would be competing with us for 8th in the conference.
-
Don't you know the old adage, Anyone but Dayton.
-
Hey, great idea! Every year, let's send out invites to anyone who made the Top 25 at least once.
As long as we can relegate them back to the A-10 when their coach leaves....
-
As long as we can relegate them back to the A-10 when their coach leaves....
This is a great post :) I was thinking, I'd take them if we can force Archie to stay in Dayton for the next 20 years
-
Dayton gives us nothing. No one gives a crap about Dayton outside of Dayton. Gonzaga, BYU, Notre Dame, Memphis, UConn, etc. Those are the level teams we should be bringing in. Short of that, stay at 10.
-
(https://media.giphy.com/media/b4pPnoO1QDd1C/giphy.gif)
-
#19 in the country.
Can the conference please stop messing around and get them and VCU into the Big East?
So...maybe you haven't heard the news...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/04/02/shaka-smart-leaves-vcu-to-coach-texas/
-
So...maybe you haven't heard the news...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/04/02/shaka-smart-leaves-vcu-to-coach-texas/
I thought he was coming to Marquette?
-
I get it... after the torture the past few years have been as a MUBB fan, you want to torture the team by forcing them to travel to Dayton OH once a year. You sick bastard, no one deserves that.
-
Bring on the Flyers.
-
I thought he was coming to Marquette?
I wonder how many times a day does Ganzer hear "done deal"?
-
So many reasons not to take Dayton, and we haven't even touched the fact that they'd take a cut of our TV money.
-
Sometimes it shouldn't be just about the money. Dayton and SLU "fit" and should be in.
-
Sometimes it shouldn't be just about the money. Dayton and SLU "fit" and should be in.
But they do nothing to help the conference so they don't "fit."
-
Sometimes it shouldn't be just about the money. Dayton and SLU "fit" and should be in.
Easy, Bernie.
-
Sometimes it shouldn't be just about the money. Dayton and SLU "fit" and should be in.
Cute.
-
Unless adding teams increases the TV revenue Fox Sports provides to the Big East there should be no expansion, full stop, end of discussion, no argument. The Big East is about maximizing revenue for the member teams, adding teams will only dilute that.
-
ABD
-
How would 4 ranked teams (instead of 3), and 7 teams in the projected NCAA field (instead of 5) be anything other than a positive?
I think Marquette and Georgetown should just join the conference. Then it could be formidable.
-
Unless adding teams increases the TV revenue Fox Sports provides to the Big East there should be no expansion, full stop, end of discussion, no argument. The Big East is about maximizing revenue for the member teams, adding teams will only dilute that.
^This guy knows what he is talking about.
Plus, Dayton sucks.
-
Archie to GA Tech
-
Sometimes it shouldn't be just about the money. Dayton and SLU "fit" and should be in.
Less money per school (and less TV exposure per school) means a less competitive Big East and a reduction in all that the conference adds to its members. So, the money is pretty darned important. Also, the easternmost schools of the "Big East" won't allow two new additions from the western part of the league.
Until a school is willing to drop their football team to the FCS level, the most likely team to get a Big East invite is Richmond. That right there tells you how unlikely expansion is at this point.
-
Hey, great idea! Every year, let's send out invites to anyone who made the Top 25 at least once.
Was thinking more along the lines of NCAA tournament appearances...both schools have more than us lately
-
So many reasons not to take Dayton, and we haven't even touched the fact that they'd take a cut of our TV money.
No they wouldn't. There are provisions for expansion and the money pool gets bigger.
-
Unless adding teams increases the TV revenue Fox Sports provides to the Big East there should be no expansion, full stop, end of discussion, no argument. The Big East is about maximizing revenue for the member teams, adding teams will only dilute that.
I believe it does increase the TV revenue, as long as you don't add turd programs...VCU and Dayton aren't turd programs, at least not anymore than DePaul, St. John's or Marquette has been lately. If I was advocating Duquesne or Fordham...different story...
More teams = more games = more revenue
Also..... 7 NCAA credits divided by 12 teams > 5 NCAA credits divided by 10 teams
There's a reason other conferences have been expanding to 14 and 16 teams...if teams were losing revenue as a result, they wouldn't be doing it.
-
I believe it does increase the TV revenue, as long as you don't add turd programs
More teams = more games = more revenue
Also..... 7 NCAA credits divided by 12 teams > 5 NCAA credits divided by 10 teams
There's a reason other conferences have been expanding to 14 and 16 teams...if teams were losing revenue as a result, they wouldn't be doing it.
The Big Ten, Pac 12, and SEC are doing it for the money, the Big 12, the ACC, and the AAC are doing it for survival.
-
No they wouldn't. There are provisions for expansion and the money pool gets bigger.
That has been reported but not verified and I am certain that Fox has to agree to the additions. Given the ratings, I am not sure how much more BE basketball Fox is in the mood for.
-
People who think Notre Dame, BYU, UConn or Memphis are ever going to join the Big East are delusional. The football school ship has sailed.
-
The Big Ten, Pac 12, and SEC are doing it for the money, the Big 12, the ACC, and the AAC are doing it for survival.
They all expanded in anticipation of a new contract. Not three years into a 10 year contract.
Really Dayton doesn't bring anything right now. They may in the future. The Big East can add them then.
-
Dayton gives us nothing. No one gives a crap about Dayton outside of Dayton. Gonzaga, BYU, Notre Dame, Memphis, UConn, etc. Those are the level teams we should be bringing in. Short of that, stay at 10.
Who gives a crap about DePaul outside of Chicago (or inside Chicago?) Who gives a crap about Creighton outside of Omaha? Who gives a crap about Providence outside of Providence?
I'm not sure your expectations are fair relative to the rest of our conference.
-
Who gives a crap about DePaul outside of Chicago (or inside Chicago?) Who gives a crap about Creighton outside of Omaha? Who gives a crap about Providence outside of Providence?
I'm not sure your expectations are fair relative to the rest of our conference.
There is a difference between the schools that are in and the ones to add.
-
There is a difference between the schools that are in and the ones to add.
Fair. The bottom line is....we will get more respect as a 6 bid conference with 12 teams than a 4 or 5 bid conference with 10 teams.
Until we start getting 6 or 7 teams into the NCAA, we will be looked at like a mid major. That isn't going to happen with 10 teams.
-
Fair. The bottom line is....we will get more respect as a 6 bid conference with 12 teams than a 4 or 5 bid conference with 10 teams.
Until we start getting 6 or 7 teams into the NCAA, we will be looked at like a mid major. That isn't going to happen with 10 teams.
Mid-major conferences get one or two teams in the NCAA, not 4 or 5.
-
Fair. The bottom line is....we will get more respect as a 6 bid conference with 12 teams than a 4 or 5 bid conference with 10 teams.
Until we start getting 6 or 7 teams into the NCAA, we will be looked at like a mid major. That isn't going to happen with 10 teams.
You really think the people who mistakenly think that the Big East is a mid major are going to think differently if it has 12 teams instead of 10?
And why do you care what those people think anyway?
-
I STILL WANT--- LOUISVILLE, UCONN, NOTRE DAME AND CINCY back in the Big East. I'm sure
a football deal could be worked out for those that would participate. This would bring prestige,
and revevenue to the BE. I know it's impossible but a great thought.
-
Mid-major conferences get one or two teams in the NCAA, not 4 or 5.
They also don't typically have 2 teams I the top 5. Keep the big east the same. You add schools like Dayton, SLU, etc you become closer to a mid major.
-
Was thinking more along the lines of NCAA tournament appearances...both schools have more than us lately
What do you call lately? Lets also not forget the coach that got VCU all those NCAA appearances is kinda gone and they've only ever made it outside the first weekend that one time. If Dayton were in the Big East I'd gripe about it but I'd get it but not VCU, they don't fit and have all their prestige of being a better mid major due to one coach.
-
Dayton would be a great addition to balance numbers. If we could magically land UConn, Gonzaga, or Notre Dame and needed someone to be #12, Dayton is perfect. But on their own merit? No need to expand to Dayton for Dayton's sake.
-
Sometimes it shouldn't be just about the money. Dayton and SLU "fit" and should be in.
My stretch pair of Sansabelts are a comfortable fit. But, I have been told they are not an attractive look.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8033/7993292608_968a0acee8_b.jpg)
-
This is a much better fit:
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/4f8084683bc8d7c398aee87b4b58a682/tumblr_nabe6sH3iB1s7li0io1_1280.jpg)
-
#19 in the country.
Can the conference please stop messing around and get them and VCU into the Big East?
We have a very strong conference with an attractive 10 team double round robin format. We got 10 teams into the tournament the last two years and are having a great conference season this year.
Adding teams impacts the scheduling, dilutes money from existing programs from TV money and does not bring anything to the table. In two years Mullin will have St. Johns turned around and DePauls program is going to get much better with the new facility on the horizon. At that point we will literally have every team in the league competitive. There is no compelling reason to bring in any more teams.
Yes, I know Dayton has a long tradition, and with Xavier and Butler nearby it would have been very fun. Unfortunately the Jesuits at Marquette and Georgetown (remember they are all on each others boards so the ties are tight) pushed very hard for Creighton at the outset and that is now a done deal. It is fine with me as Creighton is bringing a lot to the table with the sell out crowds enthusiasm and their own solid tradition.
-
Isn't there some heat between the athletic administrations between Marquette and Dayton? I seem to recall some scheduling issue a while back, which has caused some friction. Is that right?
Ask yourself one question: is playing Dayton, and maybe Saint Louis, once or twice a year really more important than eliminating the round-robin home/home format we get to experience in the Big East? Any addition eliminates the round-robin. It's because of that they I am guaranteed of seeing Marquette/DePaul every year in Chicago. I just don't see the value in such additions.
-
I STILL WANT--- LOUISVILLE, UCONN, NOTRE DAME AND CINCY back in the Big East. I'm sure
a football deal could be worked out for those that would participate. This would bring prestige,
and revevenue to the BE. I know it's impossible but a great thought.
This is about as delusional as MU getting an at large bid right now. Sure, things could always change in the future, but you'd need not just a perfect storm but a pretty strong aircraft carrier.
-
12 teams would make a better Big East tournament. 11 teams would also make a better Big East tournament. The object is to get the most bids possible. The 5th and 6th seeded teams getting a bye hurts their chances, because they have to beat the 3rd and 4th seeds. You could have a round robin with 11 teams. You would need 20 conference games. I think it is the Ohio Valley that plays a 20 game schedule.
-
Isn't there some heat between the athletic administrations between Marquette and Dayton? I seem to recall some scheduling issue a while back, which has caused some friction. Is that right?
As I remember it Dayton owed us a return game, which was scheduled. MU wanted to play someone else on the already scheduled date and cancelled the game with Dayton. Dayton then refused to reschedule. MU's coach and athletic director are now gone, so it should not matter. Especially, if you look at it and realize Dayton was not wrong in this, since MU broke the contract.
-
I've read this entire thread.
As was the case 2 years ago and 18 months ago and a year ago and six months ago, I still see no need to add Dayton -- or anybody else the league actually could bring in these days. (In other words, yeah, ND and Gonzaga would be great but they ain't happening so silly to even talk about 'em.)
The Big East is working well, and it's just a baby in its current form. Let's see how it looks when it's a little more grown-up before we start messin' with it.
Plus, the round robin rocks!
-
I STILL WANT--- LOUISVILLE, UCONN, NOTRE DAME AND CINCY back in the Big East. I'm sure
a football deal could be worked out for those that would participate. This would bring prestige,
and revevenue to the BE. I know it's impossible but a great thought.
You're sure a football deal could be worked out but you know it's impossible?
-
The only still feasible school that I would want to add would be UCONN. I like the double round robin and that's still plausible woth 11 teams. Hoping for a couple o-fer years for UCONN football.
-
12 teams would make a better Big East tournament. 11 teams would also make a better Big East tournament. The object is to get the most bids possible. The 5th and 6th seeded teams getting a bye hurts their chances, because they have to beat the 3rd and 4th seeds. You could have a round robin with 11 teams. You would need 20 conference games. I think it is the Ohio Valley that plays a 20 game schedule.
Ohio Valley plays 16 games.
The original appeal of the Big East tournament was that anyone could beat anyone. I can remember the electricity in the Garden from those days very well. Having the 5th play the 3rd is a good thing is an opportunity for both teams to have a quality game. Last year we got 6 teams in which is 60 percent of the conference. That was among the highest percentages.
-
No they wouldn't. There are provisions for expansion and the money pool gets bigger.
Only if fox approves the extra money. Which they will do for the likes of Gonzaga, BYU, Notre Dame, Memphis, UConn, etc. They would laugh in our face if we suggested more money for Dayton.
-
People who think Notre Dame, BYU, UConn or Memphis are ever going to join the Big East are delusional. The football school ship has sailed.
I wouldn't bet on it. It has sailed for now, but the Big East may change their tune on football in the future (in approximately 5-6 years would be my guess) and we don't know how the landscape will change before our next contract. I don't think any of these are likely personally, which is why we won't expand. The only two I could see as realistic is BYU and Gonzaga. BYU football is independent and will likely stay that way.
-
Who gives a crap about DePaul outside of Chicago (or inside Chicago?) Who gives a crap about Creighton outside of Omaha? Who gives a crap about Providence outside of Providence?
I'm not sure your expectations are fair relative to the rest of our conference.
You're right. But as Sultan said, they are already in. We're stuck with them. We needed somebody to get us to 10 initial teams. For expanding, we can and will be much pickier. And the thing that those three teams you mentioned bring us that doesn't doesn't is unique markets. Xavier covers the Dayton market. And if you really wanted to separate the Dayton and Cincy markets, the Dayton market isn't worth crap.
So in summary, Dayton sucks.
-
Fair. The bottom line is....we will get more respect as a 6 bid conference with 12 teams than a 4 or 5 bid conference with 10 teams.
Until we start getting 6 or 7 teams into the NCAA, we will be looked at like a mid major. That isn't going to happen with 10 teams.
This again? Dear lord. The BE is one of the best three conferences in the country two years in a row, and some idiots are still calling it a mid major? Smh.
-
Fair. The bottom line is....we will get more respect as a 6 bid conference with 12 teams than a 4 or 5 bid conference with 10 teams.
Until we start getting 6 or 7 teams into the NCAA, we will be looked at like a mid major. That isn't going to happen with 10 teams.
This just doesn't matter in reality. Three things drive "respectability" as a conference: Conference winning percentage, are your conference teams making a deep tournament run every year, and eyeballs for TV games. Nobody remembers how many bids a conference gets, they do remember if you fail out or if you make deep runs.
The Big 12 has 10 teams, are they a disrespected, no good conference that nobody thinks is any good? Should they invite Dayton into their league? Kansas and Oklahoma may not get bids because they only have 10 teams!
You're making an emotional argument for adding teams that just isn't supported logically. Here is your checklist on whether the conference expands:
-Will we get more money per school as a result?
This requires 1 of 2 things: Giant fanbase or huge untapped TV market
-Will a teams inclusion increase the odds of having a championship team?
-Does their inclusion erode an already existing member(recruiting, tv market, etc)?
-Are they a basketball only school?
Dayton fails all of the above
-
I want the Big East to add Duke and Kentucky to make it 12. Then we can stop the silly expansion talk.
-
I want the Big East to add Duke and Kentucky to make it 12. Then we can stop the silly expansion talk.
Durham is like a backwater Dayton, no thanks ;)
-
This just doesn't matter in reality. Three things drive "respectability" as a conference: Conference winning percentage, are your conference teams making a deep tournament run every year, and eyeballs for TV games. Nobody remembers how many bids a conference gets, they do remember if you fail out or if you make deep runs.
The Big 12 has 10 teams, are they a disrespected, no good conference that nobody thinks is any good? Should they invite Dayton into their league? Kansas and Oklahoma may not get bids because they only have 10 teams!
You're making an emotional argument for adding teams that just isn't supported logically. Here is your checklist on whether the conference expands:
-Will we get more money per school as a result?
This requires 1 of 2 things: Giant fanbase or huge untapped TV market
-Will a teams inclusion increase the odds of having a championship team?
-Does their inclusion erode an already existing member(recruiting, tv market, etc)?
-Are they a basketball only school?
Dayton fails all of the above
Dayton has non scholarship football like Georgetown and Butler. That's not really an obstacle.
-
Dayton has non scholarship football like Georgetown and Butler. That's not really an obstacle.
Fair point, so they fail on the majority of the issues ;D
-
Dayton, Schmayton.
Bring me ND, UCONN, Gonzaga, or BYU.
If you want the BEAST to be a mid-major, bring the likes of Dayton in.
If you want the BEAST to consistently be the #1 or #2 conference, start acting like it.
-
I want the Big East to add Duke and Kentucky to make it 12. Then we can stop the silly expansion talk.
Unranked Duke? No thanks. They can call us when they accomplish something.
-
Dayton, Schmayton.
Bring me ND, UCONN, Gonzaga, or BYU.
If you want the BEAST to be a mid-major, bring the likes of Dayton in.
If you want the BEAST to consistently be the #1 or #2 conference, start acting like it.
Dayton does have more all time wins than we do. Three years ago we were ahead of Dayton. We are close to falling off the top 50 winningest program list.
-
Dayton does have more all time wins than we do. Three years ago we were ahead of Dayton. We are close to falling off the top 50 winningest program list.
NCAA tournament appearances would seem to be a better indicator, which Marquette is tied for 13th.
-
Dayton has non scholarship football like Georgetown and Butler. That's not really an obstacle.
Villanova too?
-
Dayton, Schmayton.
Bring me ND, UCONN, Gonzaga, or BYU.
If you want the BEAST to be a mid-major, bring the likes of Dayton in.
If you want the BEAST to consistently be the #1 or #2 conference, start acting like it.
If the Big East were to expand, UCONN, Gonzaga and Cinci would be at the top of my list. I can't for the life of me figure out why ND would be interested in returning to the BE, outside of getting back together with the Catholic schools, or if the BIG10 or SEC poached a few more from the ACC.
UCONN and Cinci would probably love to be in the BE for hoops, but obviously Cinci isn't dropping football. I could see UCONN dropping football at some point. Gonzaga seems like a stretch, but if they were in, I'd welcome them with open arms. Not as sold on BYU, but not a terrible choice.
Realistically, its going to stay at 10 for awhile. Don't fix what isn't broken, and certainly don't dilute the league by taking on more A10 schools.
-
Villanova too?
Nova actually has scholarship football at the FCS level.
-
It truly is impressive how much hate for a school one douchey poster created. That was some good alienating Dayton guy.
-
If the Big East were to expand, UCONN, Gonzaga and Cinci would be at the top of my list. I can't for the life of me figure out why ND would be interested in returning to the BE, outside of getting back together with the Catholic schools, or if the BIG10 or SEC poached a few more from the ACC.
UCONN and Cinci would probably love to be in the BE for hoops, but obviously Cinci isn't dropping football. I could see UCONN dropping football at some point. Gonzaga seems like a stretch, but if they were in, I'd welcome them with open arms. Not as sold on BYU, but not a terrible choice.
Realistically, its going to stay at 10 for awhile. Don't fix what isn't broken, and certainly don't dilute the league by taking on more A10 schools.
I would add Memphis too, and they're looking like the least likely to be picked up by a power conference. At what point does FBS football stop being worth it?
-
I would add Memphis too, and they're looking like the least likely to be picked up by a power conference. At what point does FBS football stop being worth it?
On the surface, I agree. Memphis has a nice program. But isn't it widely considered a pretty terrible school? It would add a new market. Cinci is also a pretty poor school academically, and is in the same market as X, so probably not a realistic add, especially when considering they actually have a decent football program.
I just don't see the BE schools wanting to add a school with a sketchy reputation.
-
On the surface, I agree. Memphis has a nice program. But isn't it widely considered a pretty terrible school? It would add a new market. Cinci is also a pretty poor school academically, and is in the same market as X, so probably not a realistic add, especially when considering they actually have a decent football program.
I just don't see the BE schools wanting to add a school with a sketchy reputation.
First, Cinci is not a poor school at all.
Memphis has generally been more of a commuter/regional school, especially when it was called Memphis State. Not the best reputation, has been making a pretty major efforts to improving its academic and research abilities for a while now. Not a perfect candidate, but I think its reputation is a bit of people thinking of it in the 70s/80s more. Its endowment is bigger than some BE schools already, and plus, didn't Louisville have a poor reputation for years as well?
I'd take them. This is basketball and their involvement would help in many sports. Plus you get the FedEx connection, another major market. I'd liekl to think you'd take them right away with Cincy/UConn if you could.
After Gonzaga, BYU, UConn, Cincy, Memphis there is not much worth to add immediately unless realignment caused something crazy to happen again.
-
^This guy knows what he is talking about.
Plus, Dayton sucks.
Well TAMU, if Dayton sucks at 19, what are we? We have not done too well the last 2.5 years, so do we blow?
-
We slurp.
-
I just don't see the BE schools wanting to add a school with a sketchy reputation.
Despite all of the campus wide sh|t-storms MU has endured over the past 4-5 years, Dayton's PR folks would probably trade places with ours in a millisecond.
Google:
"Dayton New Logo President Son"
"Dayton Dyshawn Pierre"
"Dayton Matt Kavanaugh"
"Dayton Devon Scott"
"Dayton Jalen Robinson"
"Dayton Sigma Chi"
"2013 Student Falls University Dayton"
"Dayton Trademark Ghetto"
"Dayton President Crowd Surfing Riot"
"WTF Dayton You Actually Rioted After Beating Providence in the Third Round SMH"
-
No one has yet addressed the elephant in the room, so I will.
When this league decides to expand, we need to do so for color diversity.
The Big East has proud traditions and a bright future, but until we address the diversity issue, we will always be a step behind. Seriously, every team but two use blue in their school colors. WTF is up with that?
Our short list needs to be Stanford, Colorado State, Tulane, Florida, Virginia Tech (no Buzz jokes, please; remember, we're not adding a coach, we're adding a jersey color), Miami (FL) and Evansville.
-
Let's get Rutgers back to recapture the NYC eyeballs. Anyone know what University of Mexico's Ken Pom is? #largemarkets
-
I just don't get the fascination with expansion from the crowd here. Do people think if we expand it is automatic free money? In almost all expansion scenarios that don't set up the Big East for disaster 3 or 4 years down the road (i.e. bringing in football schools), revenue for each school goes down....not up.
We can wish that expansion meant more money, but the economics just don't work that way.
-
This again? Dear lord. The BE is one of the best three conferences in the country two years in a row, and some idiots are still calling it a mid major? Smh.
Yep. How many conferences have two of the top four teams in the country?
-
I just don't get the fascination with expansion from the crowd here.
C'mon, bigger is always better. If something is growing, then it must be a positive. Seriously, that's the only rational.
You can (rightly) point out all the issues with expansion, but that is inconsequential to this crowd. Because somebody will always be saying, look at what "insert school here" is doing, the conference needs to add them.
-
C'mon, bigger is always better. If something is growing, then it must be a positive. Seriously, that's the only rational.
You can (rightly) point out all the issues with expansion, but that is inconsequential to this crowd. Because somebody will always be saying, look at what "insert school here" is doing, the conference needs to add them.
So.....
(http://lovelace-media.imgix.net/uploads/315/b96050f0-9351-0132-1df4-0a2c89e5f2f5.gif?)
-
No one has yet addressed the elephant in the room, so I will.
When this league decides to expand, we need to do so for color diversity.
The Big East has proud traditions and a bright future, but until we address the diversity issue, we will always be a step behind. Seriously, every team but two use blue in their school colors. WTF is up with that?
Our short list needs to be Stanford, Colorado State, Tulane, Florida, Virginia Tech (no Buzz jokes, please; remember, we're not adding a coach, we're adding a jersey color), Miami (FL) and Evansville.
This was pretty good.
-
First, Cinci is not a poor school at all.
Memphis has generally been more of a commuter/regional school, especially when it was called Memphis State. Not the best reputation, has been making a pretty major efforts to improving its academic and research abilities for a while now. Not a perfect candidate, but I think its reputation is a bit of people thinking of it in the 70s/80s more. Its endowment is bigger than some BE schools already, and plus, didn't Louisville have a poor reputation for years as well?
I'd take them. This is basketball and their involvement would help in many sports. Plus you get the FedEx connection, another major market. I'd liekl to think you'd take them right away with Cincy/UConn if you could.
After Gonzaga, BYU, UConn, Cincy, Memphis there is not much worth to add immediately unless realignment caused something crazy to happen again.
Fair enough. You certainly sound like you know more about Cinci than I do..maybe it more of just a perception thing. I do remember hearing that none of the football conferences wanted anything to do with Cincinnati since it wasn't a great school.
-
Fair enough. You certainly sound like you know more about Cinci than I do..maybe it more of just a perception thing. I do remember hearing that none of the football conferences wanted anything to do with Cincinnati since it wasn't a great school.
The ACC presidents were not happy (to say the least) that Lville was let into the ACC. Their anger stemmed from Lville bringing down the rest of the conference academically.
I get the institutional fit argument. I would rather have good academics rather than poor academics. But only to a point. As the two schools stand right now, I would take Memphis over Holy Cross in a heartbeat, even if Memphis is the most commuter of all commuter schools.
-
NCAA tournament appearances would seem to be a better indicator, which Marquette is tied for 13th.
We are probably falling there too. I am not necessarily advocating for Dayton. One of the reasons I hate Badger fans is that they think they are better than everyone else. I am coming to realize that MU fans also look down on a lot of schools including Dayton and DePaul. We have trouble beating DePaul and probably would not beat Dayton.
-
The ACC presidents were not happy (to say the least) that Lville was let into the ACC. Their anger stemmed from Lville bringing down the rest of the conference academically.
I get the institutional fit argument. I would rather have good academics rather than poor academics. But only to a point. As the two schools stand right now, I would take Memphis over Holy Cross in a heartbeat, even if Memphis is the most commuter of all commuter schools.
Eh, academics for conference affiliation only really matters to nerds and the Big 10. Academics can be part of the larger culture, but it's a component...culture is the bigger concern with conference affiliation. If there was a private, basketball school that fit in with the Big East that sucked academically but brought in a bunch of eyeballs like LA or NYC I'd consider expan......wait, we already have St Johns, my bad
-
Despite all of the campus wide sh|t-storms MU has endured over the past 4-5 years, Dayton's PR folks would probably trade places with ours in a millisecond.
Google:
"Dayton New Logo President Son"
"Dayton Dyshawn Pierre"
"Dayton Matt Kavanaugh"
"Dayton Devon Scott"
"Dayton Jalen Robinson"
"Dayton Sigma Chi"
"2013 Student Falls University Dayton"
"Dayton Trademark Ghetto"
"Dayton President Crowd Surfing Riot"
"WTF Dayton You Actually Rioted After Beating Providence in the Third Round SMH"
And don't forget "Dayton students taunt Christi Mack"
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/sports/former-ud-great-target-of-foul-mouthed-fans-saturd/nWRZd/
-
The reason why I would not pick Dayton is that I like the idea of only having one team in a state. I would add based on states that are connected that we do not already have. St. Louis would connect Illinois and Nebraska. I would love to add Wichita St, but that probably is not realistic. Detroit would give us Michigan, but they have not been good for a long time. We did have great games with Detroit in the 1970's. UConn or a school from Virginia would also give us another state.
-
The ACC presidents were not happy (to say the least) that Lville was let into the ACC. Their anger stemmed from Lville bringing down the rest of the conference academically.
I get the institutional fit argument. I would rather have good academics rather than poor academics. But only to a point. As the two schools stand right now, I would take Memphis over Holy Cross in a heartbeat, even if Memphis is the most commuter of all commuter schools.
Right. I frankly don't give a rip about academics with respect to the BE - I want it to be the best basketball conference as feasibly possible. IMO, that'd be adding 2 of UCONN, Cinci or Gonzaga - private/public, academics, etc., be damned.
-
The ACC presidents were not happy (to say the least) that Lville was let into the ACC. Their anger stemmed from Lville bringing down the rest of the conference academically.
Same with the B1G and Nebraska. The lost their AAU status shortly after joining which was a big deal to everyone not involved in football.
-
The reason why I would not pick Dayton is that I like the idea of only having one team in a state. I would add based on states that are connected that we do not already have. St. Louis would connect Illinois and Nebraska. I would love to add Wichita St, but that probably is not realistic. Detroit would give us Michigan, but they have not been good for a long time. We did have great games with Detroit in the 1970's. UConn or a school from Virginia would also give us another state.
Eh, regional footprint doesn't really matter, don't care if we had a conference of all Wisconsin teams if it brought the maximum number of eyeballs.
We also have to look at sustained program success, not just where are they now. UConn(if they dropped football) fits the bill nicely but I don't see a second partner school unless we want to invent teleportation and bring Gonzaga on board.
Speaking of, the other component I left out in all this is the non-revenue sports...those have to fit as well in the Big East, Dayton has some pretty craptacular non-rev sports.
-
Fair enough. You certainly sound like you know more about Cinci than I do..maybe it more of just a perception thing. I do remember hearing that none of the football conferences wanted anything to do with Cincinnati since it wasn't a great school.
Yeah, I mean its not an AAAMMMAAZZZING school, but they have some pretty cool grad and research programs and are well respected enough. The B1G 10 and ACC just have historically held themselves up as a higher academic standard (whether its always true or not), so bringing in Louisville was a bit surprising...but its not like Va Tech or Maryland are amazing either....its just this perception they've created for themselves. Louisville also has historically had a similar negative academic perception linger over them, even though most of it is out of date or incorrect now (similar to Memphis but farther along in reinventing their image).
-
Same with the B1G and Nebraska. The lost their AAU status shortly after joining which was a big deal to everyone not involved in football.
Everyone knows the N on the helmets is for Nowledge
-
End of the day, if we wanted Dayton, they'd be here already. That school would crawl on bare knees from Wright-Pat over broken glass all the way to Val Ackerman's NYC office to get into the league.
-
The reason why I would not pick Dayton is that I like the idea of only having one team in a state. I would add based on states that are connected that we do not already have. St. Louis would connect Illinois and Nebraska. I would love to add Wichita St, but that probably is not realistic. Detroit would give us Michigan, but they have not been good for a long time. We did have great games with Detroit in the 1970's. UConn or a school from Virginia would also give us another state.
I mainly agree with this except we would obviously take Notre Dame even though that doubles up Indiana and Butler would have no ability to block that. Schools in Virginia and NC scare me because of the amount of competing colleges market in those states. VCU competes against GMU, JSU, ODU, William & Mary, Richmond, Va Tech, UVA and even Georgetown a little, so the market add isn't that great. As someone from Kansas I strongly recommend a big no to Wichita St.
I think in this new environment, new schools are going to pop-up and replace what Butler, Creighton, and Xavier were able to do in their conferences and we should simply be very patient wait until one of those programs reaches those heights to add. I want to add the next Xavier. Maybe that happens to be Dayton in the New A10. Maybe SLU finally puts it together. There's also a lot more room for a new program to step up in these conferences (Drake, Duquesne, Detroit, Davidson, Richmond) that an option we may not be thinking about could emerge. But I'm looking for a Xavier/Gonzaga/Creighton type emergence before even thinking about adding. VCU and Dayton could keep going, or suddenly have to replace coaches and drop off for 4 years or more. No need to add anything until we get closer to a new TV deal or UConn shakes free.
-
No one has yet addressed the elephant in the room, so I will.
When this league decides to expand, we need to do so for color diversity.
The Big East has proud traditions and a bright future, but until we address the diversity issue, we will always be a step behind. Seriously, every team but two use blue in their school colors. WTF is up with that?
Our short list needs to be Stanford, Colorado State, Tulane, Florida, Virginia Tech (no Buzz jokes, please; remember, we're not adding a coach, we're adding a jersey color), Miami (FL) and Evansville.
+1000
In our old league, we had a wide variety of colors (Syracuse orange, Notre Dame and USF green, Rutgers and Louisville red). When the 7 re-formed the Big East our three adds were all navy-grey-white. Now we have seven teams using navy blue as a primary (GT, CU, X, SH, MU, BU, Nova) and one more with a hardly indistinguishable black (PC). The other two are the slightly lighter BLUE demons and St. John's, who has started wearing navy uniforms! I'm wondering if we'll see anyone change their color scheme or focus on a different primary color (MU gold and baby, Nova's or CU's lighter blue, DP's red) just to stand out.
Moral of the story if we add teams, we need to go for color. Which means Dayton (red), VCU (yellow), Davidson (red), and, hell, St. bonaventure (brown) are in, but Gonzaga (navy and red), BYU (navy and white) and SLU (navy and white) are out.
-
PS... Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the Jesuit schools with navy schemes (MU, Zaga, SLU, X) are based on Georgetown's colors, right?
-
PS... Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the Jesuit schools with navy schemes (MU, Zaga, SLU, X) are based on Georgetown's colors, right?
What? Never heard of that, and it doesn't seem to make much sense.
-
Despite all of the campus wide sh|t-storms MU has endured over the past 4-5 years, Dayton's PR folks would probably trade places with ours in a millisecond.
Google:
"Dayton New Logo President Son"
"Dayton Dyshawn Pierre"
"Dayton Matt Kavanaugh"
"Dayton Devon Scott"
"Dayton Jalen Robinson"
"Dayton Sigma Chi"
"2013 Student Falls University Dayton"
"Dayton Trademark Ghetto"
"Dayton President Crowd Surfing Riot"
"WTF Dayton You Actually Rioted After Beating Providence in the Third Round SMH"
Wow your a loser who has no idea what he is talking about. Didn't Marquette have a sex scandal not to long ago? And how does the student housing affect the big east.
-
Wow your a loser who has no idea what he is talking about. Didn't Marquette have a sex scandal not to long ago? And how does the student housing affect the big east.
This right here is message board gold.
-
PS... Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the Jesuit schools with navy schemes (MU, Zaga, SLU, X) are based on Georgetown's colors, right?
The U.S. Civil War greatly affected Georgetown as 1,141 students and alumni enlisted in one army or the other, and the Union Army commandeered university buildings.[11] By the time of President Abraham Lincoln's May 1861 visit to campus, 1,400 troops were living in temporary quarters there. Due to the number of lives lost, enrollment levels remained low until well after the war was over. Only seven students graduated in 1869, down from over 300 in the previous decade.[18] At its founding in 1876, the Georgetown College Boat Club, the school's rowing team, adopted blue, used for Union uniforms, and gray, used for Confederate uniforms, as its colors to signify the peaceful unity among students.[19] Subsequently, the school adopted these as its official colors.
-
This right here is message board gold.
Grammar, spelling and punctuation....it is the internet trifecta.
-
This right here is message board gold.
wait...
MU72491....
2x4=8-7=1+1=2*9=18.....S is the 18th letter of the alphabet
S and M and U....and the is a 1 and a 7.....
MU72491 is SMU17!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
wait...
MU72491....
2x4=8-7=1+1=2*9=18.....S is the 18th letter of the alphabet
S and M and U....and the is a 1 and a 7.....
MU72491 is SMU17!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seems to completely ignore the order of operations. That guy is terrible! Ugh! ;D
-
I promised myself (and Scoop) that the next time I did this, I'd close my eyes... but I just can't contain my own inquisitiveness.
As a current Dayton flyer senior who goes to every Marquette game when in town I think Dayton deserves to be in. I have been a huge Marquette fan all my life and will always be. In the beginning of the year I laughed at my flyer friends who said Dayton was better than Marquette. As I watched all season both teams play (obviously if they played at the same time I would watch Marquette over Dayton) I do think Dayton is better than Marquette. They are very athletic and can really shoot the three. I always think Marquette can beat anyone on any day, due to the coaching and how tough we are, I think Dayton would beat us this year as sad as that makes me. They have a great fan base and I do think they would be a nice member in our conference
-
Well TAMU, if Dayton sucks at 19, what are we? We have not done too well the last 2.5 years, so do we blow?
Dayton sucking has nothing to do with their success on the basketball court. Dayton just sucks.
-
Dayton sucking has nothing to do with their success on the basketball court. Dayton just sucks.
Having lived near there I will whole heartedly agree with this.
-
Maybe Dayton should learn to spell their own nickname before they earn admission to the Big East.
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/kd3ehw6mnc1wsnetvekg.gif)
-
My stretch pair of Sansabelts are a comfortable fit. But, I have been told they are not an attractive look.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8033/7993292608_968a0acee8_b.jpg)
A scarf wearer!
-
It truly is impressive how much hate for a school one douchey poster created. That was some good alienating Dayton guy.
He must have gotten a rejection letter from Dayton
-
A scarf wearer!
"A modern man has only one accessory to mark his presence - a cravat."
-
Lost at home yesterday to St Bonaventure.
Impressive.
The A10 sucks.
-
St. Bonaventure was a fringe tournament team even before yesterday's win. (Bracket Matrix had them in the "Next Four Out.")
-
Fringe tournament team?
Please... They have beaten nobody. We have a more impressive resume.
-
Fringe tournament team?
Please... They have beaten nobody. We have a more impressive resume.
Their RPI is 34. Ours is 110.
-
Their RPI is 34. Ours is 110.
Which goes to show the uselessness of the RPI (not MU's low rating - the Bonnies #34 rating).
Their best non-conference win was over Ohio (Pomeroy #122), followed by Buffalo (#145).
Their two best wins are over St. Joe's (Pomeroy #40) and Dayton (Pomeroy #49).
-
Their RPI is 34. Ours is 110.
And further evidence why Broeker should feel like an asshat and be truly embarrassed of himself.
It's a dead horse, but there is just no excuse for this horecrap schedule. I havent watched St. Bonnie, I am sure they're a decent squad, but I bet MU would beat them 8/10 times.
-
Which goes to show the uselessness of the RPI (not MU's low rating - the Bonnies #34 rating).
Their best non-conference win was over Ohio (Pomeroy #122), followed by Buffalo (#145).
Their two best wins are over St. Joe's (Pomeroy #40) and Dayton (Pomeroy #49).
Those are the reasons why they are only in the "next four out" range. But there is a reason why they are a fringe NCAA team and Marquette isn't.
-
And further evidence why Broeker should feel like an asshat and be truly embarrassed of himself.
It's a dead horse, but there is just no excuse for this horecrap schedule. I havent watched St. Bonnie, I am sure they're a decent squad, but I bet MU would beat them 8/10 times.
Doesn't really matter. If you take out our four 300+ opponents, and plug in four sub 150 opponents, our RPI is still mid 70s.
-
Doesn't really matter. If you take out our four 300+ opponents, and plug in four sub 150 opponents, our RPI is still mid 70s.
It's avtually 5. The 6th Jackson St. a surprising 213, but still low.
-
Which goes to show the uselessness of the RPI (not MU's low rating - the Bonnies #34 rating).
Their best non-conference win was over Ohio (Pomeroy #122), followed by Buffalo (#145).
Their two best wins are over St. Joe's (Pomeroy #40) and Dayton (Pomeroy #49).
Bonaventure 67 in KenPom. 75 Sagarin. 34 RPI
MU 101 in KenPom. 87 in Sagarin. 115 RPI
Any measurement you wish, Bonnies are ahead of us.
-
Doesn't really matter. If you take out our four 300+ opponents, and plug in four sub 150 opponents, our RPI is still mid 70s.
It most definitely matters, whether you want to believe it or not. MU would actually still have margin for error! The whole buy game schedule was beyond pathetic. Beyond that, this is something you and I have already discussed plenty, so I will leave it at that.
-
No idea if the Bonnie's are a better team (my guess is that they are) but if you look at the teams they played and won, and the teams we played and won it isn't worth the RPI difference of 34 to 115. Really shows the weakness of the RPI.
-
No idea if the Bonnie's are a better team (my guess is that they are) but if you look at the teams they played and won, and the teams we played and won it isn't worth the RPI difference of 34 to 115. Really shows the weakness of the RPI.
Yes, exactly.
I'm not comparing MU's tourney chances to the Bonnies'.
I'm pointing out the flaws of a rating system that, in spite of their schedule and results, ranks the Bonnies as the 34th best team in the country.
-
Well, I think the bracket projectors realize that. Which is why they aren't a shoo-in at 34 and still have work to do.
I was simply responding to the comment that St. Bonnie's resume was less impressive than MU's.
-
No idea if the Bonnie's are a better team (my guess is that they are) but if you look at the teams they played and won, and the teams we played and won it isn't worth the RPI difference of 34 to 115. Really shows the weakness of the RPI.
Every system has major weaknesses. Plenty of examples to support finding differences in various systems.
KenPom has Vanderbilt at 28. RPI at 64.
KenPom has Gonzaga 35. RPI has them at 65.
KenPom has Dayton at 50. RPI has them at 17.
-
It most definitely matters, whether you want to believe it or not. MU would actually still have margin for error! The whole buy game schedule was beyond pathetic. Beyond that, this is something you and I have already discussed plenty, so I will leave it at that.
You are correct. Instead of a 2% chance, we would have had an 8% chance.
-
I think for the most part, almost all the rating systems are useless.
You take a team like St. Bonaventure and put them in the Big East, and they turn into a Depaul.
Put a team like Wisconsin in the Big East, and they would have a losing conference record and not even being considered for the NCAAs.
All the systems are too easily exploited.
-
I think for the most part, almost all the rating systems are useless.
You take a team like St. Bonaventure and put them in the Big East, and they turn into a Depaul.
Put a team like Wisconsin in the Big East, and they would have a losing conference record and not even being considered for the NCAAs.
All the systems are too easily exploited.
Why would Wisconsin have a losing record in the Big East?
-
Have you even watched St Bona play?
Does St Bona beat WI on the road? no
Does St Bona sweep Providence? no
Does St Bona beat Butler? I highly doubt it
Does St Bona beat LSU and ASU to win the same tournament? no
They lost to Hofstra, Sienna, Duquesne, and others.
You said they were a fringe team before yesterday's Dayton win.
Beating St Joe's and a bunch of crappy teams doesn't make you a fringe NCAA team.
-
Why would Wisconsin have a losing record in the Big East?
I don't know if they'd have a losing record, but they'd definitely be in this grouping of bunched up teams.
-
Have you even watched St Bona play?
Does St Bona beat WI on the road? no
Does St Bona sweep Providence? no
Does St Bona beat Butler? I highly doubt it
Does St Bona beat LSU and ASU to win the same tournament? no
They lost to Hofstra, Sienna, Duquesne, and others.
You said they were a fringe team before yesterday's Dayton win.
Beating St Joe's and a bunch of crappy teams doesn't make you a fringe NCAA team.
Dude, *I* am not creating the argument. It was said yesterday by some talking head and it is reflected on Bracket Matrix, which has them 8th on teams not making the tournament.
Since Bracket Matrix is usually pretty accurate, that makes them a "fringe" tournament team. Furthermore, Marquette is listed on NONE of the brackets they survey. So that means St. Bonnies has a better resume than MU does.
Now I don't think they will make it. Their schedule isn't strong enough to get them in without some upsets in the A10 tournament.
-
And further evidence why Broeker should feel like an asshat and be truly embarrassed of himself.
It's a dead horse, but there is just no excuse for this horecrap schedule. I havent watched St. Bonnie, I am sure they're a decent squad, but I bet MU would beat them 8/10 times.
I agree with this analysis.
-
Have you even watched St Bona play?
Does St Bona beat WI on the road? no
Does St Bona sweep Providence? no
Does St Bona beat Butler? I highly doubt it
Does St Bona beat LSU and ASU to win the same tournament? no
They lost to Hofstra, Sienna, Duquesne, and others.
You said they were a fringe team before yesterday's Dayton win.
Beating St Joe's and a bunch of crappy teams doesn't make you a fringe NCAA team.
Does Western Illinois beat Wisconsin on the road? ;) How about Milwaukee?
Does St. Bona lose to DePaul at home? How about Belmont? Does St. Bona need OT to beat IUPUI at home?
All depends on what part of the body you are looking at, right?
He's not wrong when he said fringe team. Lunardi and many others have them as a team "on the fringe".
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology/_/iteration/36
In fact, Lunardi last night said Bonaventure is IN https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/701204947015172096?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
-
Why would Wisconsin have a losing record in the Big East?
Well, they are 0-2 against Big East teams (one neutral site, one home loss) that are currently a combined 13-16 in the Big East.
Seems hard to make any argument other than them having a losing record in the Big East.
I'll go further, you put MU, Creighton, Georgetown or Butler in the Big Ten (swap them with UW) and everyone of them would make the tournament. The Big Ten is bad this year, their top team has two sub-100 loses out of conference.
-
Well, they are 0-2 against Big East teams (one neutral site, one home loss) that are currently a combined 13-16 in the Big East.
Seems hard to make any argument other than them having a losing record in the Big East.
Weren't those games played a long time ago? More than two months ago under Tara's Coach.
-
Weren't those games played a long time ago? More than two months ago under Tara's Coach.
Doesn't mean a damn thing. There is zero reason to believe that Georgetown and MU haven't improved also. The Big Ten was terrible out of conference, but as a whole is better positioned to manipulate the RPI.
They beat each other up and maintain RPIs. Teams like Michigan, UW, Ohio State and Indiana have OOC resumes that would never get them in the NCAA, all their quality wins are in conference. That is a red flag, it says the conference as a whole is grossly overrated.
Also, not really a strong argument to say that the reason they improved is that they got rid of a hall of fame coach who just went to the final four the previous 2 years, and replaced him with a career assistant.
-
Doesn't mean a damn thing. The Big Ten was terrible out of conference, but as a whole is better positioned to manipulate the RPI.
They beat each other up and maintain RPIs. Teams like Michigan, UW, Ohio State and Indiana have OOC resumes that would never get them in the NCAA, all their quality wins are in conference. That is a red flag, it says the conference as a whole is grossly overrated.
I don't know how they are grossly overrated, they're (the Big Ten) ranked 5th. That doesn't sound like a gross over rating to me. Big East is ranked 4th. Can't honestly argue against either one. Wisconsin and Indiana are two teams that struggled out of the gate, but both have improved greatly. IU has another major injury from last night, but we'll see how long that he is out. Wisconsin, Nigel Hayes finally started to play like Nigel Hayes. The performances of those two teams certainly didn't help the Big Ten, nor did Michigan State with Valentine out...he's back. All teams and conferences have similar stories, of course.
-
I don't know how they are grossly overrated, they're (the Big Ten) ranked 5th. That doesn't sound like a gross over rating to me. Big East is ranked 4th. Can't honestly argue against either one. Wisconsin and Indiana are two teams that struggled out of the gate, but both have improved greatly. IU has another major injury from last night, but we'll see how long that he is out. Wisconsin, Nigel Hayes finally started to play like Nigel Hayes. The performances of those two teams certainly didn't help the Big Ten, nor did Michigan State with Valentine out...he's back. All teams and conferences have similar stories, of course.
The problem is this. What is the evidence that UW and Indiana have improved. That they are beating other teams in the 5th best conference? That UW, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, who all "started out slow, but improved" are beating each other? That they are beating a Michigan St team without Valentine? That they are beating a Purdue team that is proving to be grossly overrated because of beating a bunch of crappy teams OOC?
Maybe they have improved, but there is no evidence to support it, since we are evaluating it based on them playing each other and arbitrary rating systems that have inherent flaws that favor conferences like the Big Ten that can be more selective in their Buy Games.
-
St. Bonaventure was a fringe tournament team even before yesterday's win. (Bracket Matrix had them in the "Next Four Out.")
My friend from high school went to St. Bonnie's.
-
Nigel Hayes finally started to play like Nigel Hayes.
Now that Sandy isn't defending him - ha!
-
Now that Sandy isn't defending him - ha!
Sandy really is a tale of two halves of the season isn't he. At times in the beginning of the year he looked like a future star, a shutdown defender with a deadly outside shot.
Let's just say later. He looked like the opposite.
-
I don't care what their RPI is, or any other statistical stuff says, St Bona has done nothing to warrant their inclusion in the NCAA tournament. Beating one ranked team the entire year just doesn't cut it.
I've seen them play several games this year, and MU would beat them 7 out of 10 times.
-
Sandy really is a tale of two halves of the season isn't he. At times in the beginning of the year he looked like a future star, a shutdown defender with a deadly outside shot.
Let's just say later. He looked like the opposite.
Still defending well though. Struggling on offense.
-
I don't care what their RPI is, or any other statistical stuff says, St Bona has done nothing to warrant their inclusion in the NCAA tournament. Beating one ranked team the entire year just doesn't cut it.
I've seen them play several games this year, and MU would beat them 7 out of 10 times.
Well I haven't seen them play.
But your eye test isn't really all that relevant.
-
Still defending well though. Struggling on offense.
True statement.
-
No idea if the Bonnie's are a better team (my guess is that they are) but if you look at the teams they played and won, and the teams we played and won it isn't worth the RPI difference of 34 to 115. Really shows the weakness of the RPI.
The difference doesn't have much to do with competition. Most of it is adjusted win-loss. If St. Bonnie's had the same adj win-loss as us, they'd be #90 in the RPI as of the current moment.
Not only are they 18-7 vs our 17-10...
They've got 2 home losses... and.. 6?.. road wins
We have 6 home losses... and 4 road wins..
The RPI is stupid, but most of the difference b/w us and St. Bonaventure is due to adjusted win-loss..
-
Well I haven't seen them play.
But your eye test isn't really all that relevant.
Just like every opinion you (and just about everyone else) post. Not all that relevant.
-
The difference doesn't have much to do with competition. Most of it is adjusted win-loss. If St. Bonnie's had the same adj win-loss as us, they'd be #90 in the RPI as of the current moment.
Not only are they 18-7 vs our 17-10...
They've got 2 home losses... and.. 6?.. road wins
We have 6 home losses... and 4 road wins..
The RPI is stupid, but most of the difference b/w us and St. Bonaventure is due to adjusted win-loss..
They have a better overall resume, largely to your point of a better winning percentage. Just don't believe the difference is worth 34 to 115.
-
Schools and teams that will not be invited to the Big East:
UConn
Memphis
Louisville
VCU
Gonzaga
Northern Kentucky
MIT
Dartmouth
Wisconsin
SMU
Alaska Anchorage
Oxford
The Washington Generals
The Rio Grande Valley Vipers
The 1926 NY Yankees
So now that some of you have recovered from taking the brown acid, let's talk reality, shall we? The Big East is in no hurry to expand. That has been made abundantly clear. If and when it does, the criteria for consideration will eliminate all of the above, and the teams on the bottom of this list are no less likely than the ones on the top.
The original Big East was a group of Eastern schools with strong basketball traditions. The conference was put together to emphasize men's basketball. It was incredibly successful. Perhaps more by circumstance than design, all but one of the original members were private and only two played D-1 football. UConn was tolerated as the lone public university, but surely not added because of that. Additional schools were added mostly to add football to the conference, and by necessity, most of those schools were public. West Virginia, Va. Tech, and Rutgers would never have been considered for membership if it had not been necessary to add football programs.
The addition of football programs almost lead to the dissolution of the conference, but eventually lead to the admission of the five schools from C-USA. However, tension continued between the football and non-football schools. Football eventually broke up the old configuration entirely. What eventually resulted when the conference was re-configured was a conference of ten private mostly Catholic schools located in the East and Midwest. The focus of the conference is once again on men's basketball. There is no possibility that football will be added as a conference sport.
So here is why the above schools will not be considered. The conference is not going to allow in any school with a football team, because that school might jump at the chance to go somewhere else to play football. The conference is highly unlikely to add any public university. The private schools currently in the conference are generally smaller than public ones, have different missions, have similar concerns, have similar academic standards, and finance themselves in similar ways. They do not want to take on schools subject to funding by some state legislature or one that is mostly a commuter school.
Similarly, none of these schools want to send their women's track teams to Spokane, Washington or Provo, Utah. Butler and Xavier were immediate additions. The conference would have gladly added Notre Dame, but they chose to go to the ACC instead, which turned out to be good luck for Creighton. Going all the way to Omaha was both a stretch and a surprise, and would not have happened but for the fact that Creighton was a perennial successful team that consistently finished near the top in attendance nationwide and its president was on Marquette's board and had connections to Georgetown and Xavier. The conference is not going further west. If any schools are added, they will be no further west than St. Louis. More likely, if any schools are added in the Midwest, they will be matched by new additions in the East. Maybe SLU and Dayton are possibilities. Probably not both. Certainly not Gonzaga.
The conference is fine where it is. It might expand in the future, but only if there is a really good reason, and only to schools that meet the criteria mentioned above. No public schools. No football. No schools requiring cross-country air travel. No unlikely candidate because they make a Cinderella run in the Dance and are currently popular. The end.
-
My friend from high school went to St. Bonnie's.
I did the inverse...went to St. Bonaventure high school :D
-
The problem is this. What is the evidence that UW and Indiana have improved. That they are beating other teams in the 5th best conference? That UW, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, who all "started out slow, but improved" are beating each other? That they are beating a Michigan St team without Valentine? That they are beating a Purdue team that is proving to be grossly overrated because of beating a bunch of crappy teams OOC?
Maybe they have improved, but there is no evidence to support it, since we are evaluating it based on them playing each other and arbitrary rating systems that have inherent flaws that favor conferences like the Big Ten that can be more selective in their Buy Games.
Yes, you could make that argument, but then what you would be saying is that no teams really improve after conference season starts because we have no evidence of it as they beat each other up. That sounds a bit naive to me, but yes it is possible.
But let me ask you this, do you think if MU were to play Belmont and IUPUI again today, they would have the same results? How about Wisconsin against Western Illinois and UW-Milwaukee? How about Indiana against Wake Forest and UNLV?
-
Goatherder,
I can tell you with 100% certainty that some of the schools on your never going to happen list have been, are being, and will be considered by the BEast for expansion. I can also tell you that Dayton and SLU are never going to happen. At least not in the next ten years.
The conference and more importantly Fox don't share fans' concerns about public and football schools. Those are completely fan invented concerns. The geographically undesirable schools are a concern, but not ones they arent willing to work around. Remember, this is the conference that brought in Boise state and San Diego state for football. Obviously it's different for all sports but they have no qualms about expanding their geographic footprint.
There's no need to expand now, but if something doesn't change soon, we will expand before our next contract with Fox. Got to make ourselves as a lucrative as possible or we'll end up with an a10 level tv contract.
-
Just like every opinion you (and just about everyone else) post. Not all that relevant.
<sigh>
St. Bonnies being a "fringe tournament team" isn't *MY* opinion.
I guess I can't understand why people can't read...or apply logic...
-
<sigh>
I guess I can't understand why people can't read...or apply logic...
Oh alas. I also must <sigh> in the smarmimest of ways. Maybe you should read and apply some logic. I didnt say or imply anything about the bonnies.
-
I did the inverse...went to St. Bonaventure high school :D
The university is located way out in Western New York, no where near anywhere really.
Not to mention the climate is vastly different than Greater LA.
-
Goatherder,
I can tell you with 100% certainty that some of the schools on your never going to happen list have been, are being, and will be considered by the BEast for expansion. I can also tell you that Dayton and SLU are never going to happen. At least not in the next ten years.
The conference and more importantly Fox don't share fans' concerns about public and football schools. Those are completely fan invented concerns. The geographically undesirable schools are a concern, but not ones they arent willing to work around. Remember, this is the conference that brought in Boise state and San Diego state for football. Obviously it's different for all sports but they have no qualms about expanding their geographic footprint.
There's no need to expand now, but if something doesn't change soon, we will expand before our next contract with Fox. Got to make ourselves as a lucrative as possible or we'll end up with an a10 level tv contract.
I would like to know what you base your opinion on. Do you have some inside knowledge that you would like to share with the rest of us? Where do you get the idea that the conference is not concerned with public and football schools? It does not appear that any of either were even remotely considered for membership when the new conference configuration came together. The initial reports were that the Catholic 7 were leaving the Big East, and that Butler and Xavier were being considered for membership in the new conference. Actually, it is pretty clear that Xavier and Butler were a done deal. SLU and Dayton were apparently discussed, but there is no indication that Memphis, UConn, Cinci, or any other public or football school was even discussed. Are you kidding? UConn was devastated by the breakup of the Big East, and the local paper cried about how the conference was ungratefully dumping the school that had made the conference such a success in basketball, ignoring the fact that the conference actually made UConn a success in basketball.
And "more importantly, Fox..?" Fox is not dictating who the conference will or will not add. Right now, the BE and Fox have a long-term deal. By the time it is finished, Fox is going to want to have a whole lot more stuff on its network. One or two potential members in the Big East are just not going to be a concern of Fox. And the schools are surely not going to let Fox dictate that to them.
As for the suggestion that geography was not a problem, that is just crazy. Yes, there was an attempt to add Boise State and San Diego State, but for football only, and the Catholic 7 clearly were not happy about it. They were also not happy about the addition of SMU, Memphis, Houston, or a few others, and when the original Big East offered an invite to Tulane, that was the last straw. So no, this is not the conference that wanted to bring in BSU and SDSU. This is the conference that resulted from the fact that its members did not want to bring in schools like that. Adding Gonzaga or BYU or someone like that would make exactly no sense. There is no school west of the Mississippi that is going to bring enough additional value to the conference to pay for the cost of sending non-revenue teams across the country, and it is hard to imagine any such school would make enough money moving their basketball teams to the Big East while leaving the rest of their teams somewhere else to justify all the grief, especially since there is probably not another conference in the country that would take them without their basketball teams.
-
Got to make ourselves as a lucrative as possible or we'll end up with an a10 level tv contract.
Find that hard to believe.
-
As for the suggestion that geography was not a problem, that is just crazy. Yes, there was an attempt to add Boise State and San Diego State, but for football only, and the Catholic 7 clearly were not happy about it.
Why would the Catholic 7 care about the addition of two football only teams? Completely unrelated to them.
-
And "more importantly, Fox..?" Fox is not dictating who the conference will or will not add. Right now, the BE and Fox have a long-term deal. By the time it is finished, Fox is going to want to have a whole lot more stuff on its network. One or two potential members in the Big East are just not going to be a concern of Fox. And the schools are surely not going to let Fox dictate that to them.
I think you're kidding yourself if you don't believe Fox (aka the single largest revenue source for the conference) won't have some influence - and probably a lot of influence - over any future expansion. If ESPN can tell the ACC how to expand and with whom, certainly Fox can expect to wield some influence over Big East decisions as well.
The question, though, is why would the Big East want to expand unless Fox signs off on, and ups their fees for, it. Unless Fox is willing to pony up - and to pony up they're certainly going to expect to have some role in the process - it makes zero sense to expand. Why divvy up the same TV revenues among two more programs? They'll only expand if it means additional revenue.
As for the suggestion that geography was not a problem, that is just crazy. Yes, there was an attempt to add Boise State and San Diego State, but for football only, and the Catholic 7 clearly were not happy about it. They were also not happy about the addition of SMU, Memphis, Houston, or a few others, and when the original Big East offered an invite to Tulane, that was the last straw.
It wasn't geography that made Tulane the last straw, it was the conference leadership being beholden to football interests at the expense of the hoops only schools, and bringing in programs who were seen as incompatible with the C7. If geography were such an issue, Creighton wouldn't have been invited.
There is no school west of the Mississippi that is going to bring enough additional value to the conference to pay for the cost of sending non-revenue teams across the country, and it is hard to imagine any such school would make enough money moving their basketball teams to the Big East while leaving the rest of their teams somewhere else to justify all the grief, especially since there is probably not another conference in the country that would take them without their basketball teams.
That'll be for Fox to decide. Hence their inclusion in the process.
-
Why would the Catholic 7 care about the addition of two football only teams? Completely unrelated to them.
It wasn't so much the football only schools. The Big East had football only schools for years. It was the instability and decisions on conference membership that the C7 didn't really care for. My understanding is that the C7 were discussing leaving the BE for over a year before they finally pulled the plug.
And by the way, 3+ years later, I think that was a very, very smart decision by those schools to leave. And adding the three schools they added was perfect.
-
I would like to know what you base your opinion on. Do you have some inside knowledge that you would like to share with the rest of us? Where do you get the idea that the conference is not concerned with public and football schools? It does not appear that any of either were even remotely considered for membership when the new conference configuration came together. The initial reports were that the Catholic 7 were leaving the Big East, and that Butler and Xavier were being considered for membership in the new conference. Actually, it is pretty clear that Xavier and Butler were a done deal. SLU and Dayton were apparently discussed, but there is no indication that Memphis, UConn, Cinci, or any other public or football school was even discussed. Are you kidding? UConn was devastated by the breakup of the Big East, and the local paper cried about how the conference was ungratefully dumping the school that had made the conference such a success in basketball, ignoring the fact that the conference actually made UConn a success in basketball.
Those schools couldn't have come to the NBE even if they wanted to. Where were they going to put their football programs?
-
Why would the Catholic 7 care about the addition of two football only teams? Completely unrelated to them.
The Catholic 7 cared quite a bit about the fact that schools were being added all over the place, and many of them were none too attractive. By the time Tulane had been added to the mix, the BE had added Memphis, Temple, Houston, UCF, SMU that I recall. I am not sure when East Carolina, Tulsa were added to the mix, but it was obvious that football was driving the bus. The only one of those who was at all attractive to the non-football schools was Temple. Marquette and DePaul had thankfully left behind conference trips to Texas. The other five had no desire to go there. There was a clear desire to have a smaller, more geographically sensible conference centered on basketball without having to make crazy allowances to accommodate schools with football programs.
-
It wasn't so much the football only schools. The Big East had football only schools for years. It was the instability and decisions on conference membership that the C7 didn't really care for. My understanding is that the C7 were discussing leaving the BE for over a year before they finally pulled the plug.
And by the way, 3+ years later, I think that was a very, very smart decision by those schools to leave. And adding the three schools they added was perfect.
I get that. And it wasn't my question to his comment.
The Catholic 7 cared quite a bit about the fact that schools were being added all over the place, and many of them were none too attractive. By the time Tulane had been added to the mix, the BE had added Memphis, Temple, Houston, UCF, SMU that I recall. I am not sure when East Carolina, Tulsa were added to the mix, but it was obvious that football was driving the bus. The only one of those who was at all attractive to the non-football schools was Temple. Marquette and DePaul had thankfully left behind conference trips to Texas. The other five had no desire to go there. There was a clear desire to have a smaller, more geographically sensible conference centered on basketball without having to make crazy allowances to accommodate schools with football programs.
I get why the C7 didn't like the additions of the scraps of Conf USA, but your comment and my question was with regard to Boise State and SDSU for football only. I don't think, in the grand scheme of things, those were the tipping point or even that big of a deal to the non football playing C7.
I also think the reincarnation of the BE had much more to do with Basketball-centric schools than it did on geographical sensibility. I continue to believe the BE would take Gonzaga if the Zags were in.
-
I think you're kidding yourself if you don't believe Fox (aka the single largest revenue source for the conference) won't have some influence - and probably a lot of influence - over any future expansion. If ESPN can tell the ACC how to expand and with whom, certainly Fox can expect to wield some influence over Big East decisions as well.
The question, though, is why would the Big East want to expand unless Fox signs off on, and ups their fees for, it. Unless Fox is willing to pony up - and to pony up they're certainly going to expect to have some role in the process - it makes zero sense to expand. Why divvy up the same TV revenues among two more programs? They'll only expand if it means additional revenue.
It wasn't geography that made Tulane the last straw, it was the conference leadership being beholden to football interests at the expense of the hoops only schools, and bringing in programs who were seen as incompatible with the C7. If geography were such an issue, Creighton wouldn't have been invited.
That'll be for Fox to decide. Hence their inclusion in the process.
I just cannot buy the theory that Fox is going to dictate to the conference who it will and will not add. Again, by the time the current contract runs out, Fox does not plan to have the Big East and nothing else. It will no doubt try and acquire a lot more college programming. So the Big East adding one team or another is just not going to matter to them. There is no team out there that would dramatically change the attractiveness of the conference one way or another. Fox would have to throw in a whole lot of money to make it even feasible for schools to be sending non-revenue teams that far away. What school could possibly improve the value of the product to Fox enough to justify that? And while I am sure that Fox would be consulted about expansion, the idea that they are just sitting back and ordering the conference to add teams is just not credible. University presidents are simply not going to cede that much authority to a television network.
-
I don't understand what the hate for is with lower level football schools. Adding teams such as UCONN and Cinci are not going to hurt the conference. They have made it very clear that basketball > football. They can easily tag their football teams onto different conferences, much like Notre Dame does with all of its other sports. Or much like how Denver tags their basketball teams in the Summit.
-
I would like to know what you base your opinion on. Do you have some inside knowledge that you would like to share with the rest of us? Where do you get the idea that the conference is not concerned with public and football schools? It does not appear that any of either were even remotely considered for membership when the new conference configuration came together. The initial reports were that the Catholic 7 were leaving the Big East, and that Butler and Xavier were being considered for membership in the new conference. Actually, it is pretty clear that Xavier and Butler were a done deal. SLU and Dayton were apparently discussed, but there is no indication that Memphis, UConn, Cinci, or any other public or football school was even discussed. Are you kidding? UConn was devastated by the breakup of the Big East, and the local paper cried about how the conference was ungratefully dumping the school that had made the conference such a success in basketball, ignoring the fact that the conference actually made UConn a success in basketball.
And "more importantly, Fox..?" Fox is not dictating who the conference will or will not add. Right now, the BE and Fox have a long-term deal. By the time it is finished, Fox is going to want to have a whole lot more stuff on its network. One or two potential members in the Big East are just not going to be a concern of Fox. And the schools are surely not going to let Fox dictate that to them.
As for the suggestion that geography was not a problem, that is just crazy. Yes, there was an attempt to add Boise State and San Diego State, but for football only, and the Catholic 7 clearly were not happy about it. They were also not happy about the addition of SMU, Memphis, Houston, or a few others, and when the original Big East offered an invite to Tulane, that was the last straw. So no, this is not the conference that wanted to bring in BSU and SDSU. This is the conference that resulted from the fact that its members did not want to bring in schools like that. Adding Gonzaga or BYU or someone like that would make exactly no sense. There is no school west of the Mississippi that is going to bring enough additional value to the conference to pay for the cost of sending non-revenue teams across the country, and it is hard to imagine any such school would make enough money moving their basketball teams to the Big East while leaving the rest of their teams somewhere else to justify all the grief, especially since there is probably not another conference in the country that would take them without their basketball teams.
SMU, Memphis, VCU, UCONN and Louisville would most definitely be considered.
-
The Catholic 7 cared quite a bit about the fact that schools were being added all over the place, and many of them were none too attractive. By the time Tulane had been added to the mix, the BE had added Memphis, Temple, Houston, UCF, SMU that I recall. I am not sure when East Carolina, Tulsa were added to the mix, but it was obvious that football was driving the bus. The only one of those who was at all attractive to the non-football schools was Temple.
And Memphis
-
I just cannot buy the theory that Fox is going to dictate to the conference who it will and will not add. Again, by the time the current contract runs out, Fox does not plan to have the Big East and nothing else. It will no doubt try and acquire a lot more college programming. So the Big East adding one team or another is just not going to matter to them. There is no team out there that would dramatically change the attractiveness of the conference one way or another. Fox would have to throw in a whole lot of money to make it even feasible for schools to be sending non-revenue teams that far away. What school could possibly improve the value of the product to Fox enough to justify that? And while I am sure that Fox would be consulted about expansion, the idea that they are just sitting back and ordering the conference to add teams is just not credible. University presidents are simply not going to cede that much authority to a television network.
I cannot buy the theory that:
1. The Big East would look to add more members without it resulting in additional television money, since to do otherwise would mean lowering every current member's revenues.
2. Fox would be willing to pay more for the broadcast rights for an expanded Big East without having significant input on the programs being added.
3. Fox won't care what the Big East does because they'll be too busy with other conferences/interests (because paying attention to more than one of the entities to which you're handing hundreds of millions of dollars is just too hard?).
None of the above seems remotely plausible.
If you don't believe that university presidents won't concede that much control to a television network, you haven't been paying attention to college sports over the past decade. Everything has been driven by television networks (mostly one particular television network).
-
I don't understand what the hate for is with lower level football schools. Adding teams such as UCONN and Cinci are not going to hurt the conference. They have made it very clear that basketball > football. They can easily tag their football teams onto different conferences, much like Notre Dame does with all of its other sports. Or much like how Denver tags their basketball teams in the Summit.
Where would Uconn or Cincy place their football teams? The MAC just booted Umass out as a football only member. Notre Dame is an independent. Denver doesn't have football.
And UC is actively campaigning to join the B12 and announced a renovation to their football stadium. They are committed to football.
-
I cannot buy the theory that:
1. The Big East would look to add more members without it resulting in additional television money, since to do otherwise would mean lowering every current member's revenues.
2. Fox would be willing to pay more for the broadcast rights for an expanded Big East without having significant input on the programs being added.
3. Fox won't care what the Big East does because they'll be too busy with other conferences/interests (because paying attention to more than one of the entities to which you're handing hundreds of millions of dollars is just too hard?).
None of the above seems remotely plausible.
If you don't believe that university presidents won't concede that much control to a television network, you haven't been paying attention to college sports over the past decade. Everything has been driven by television networks (mostly one particular television network).
Well first, there are lots of rumors about what ESPN might have done or not done to get teams to move. They are just that - theories. Yes, they might have had some input. I do not concede that the networks tell schools what to do and they just jump. That is just a little too conspiratorial for me. But even if that is the case, there is no question that football is where the money is. That is why there are so many of those stupid bowl games between bad teams that nobody attends. People still watch them. Basketball cannot come close to that. That is just a fact. And who can the Big East possibly add that is going to significantly boost its revenue? Gonzaga has a nice history and people like them at tournament time. They do not have a huge national following. There is not a huge number of people willing to set aside time on Wednesday night to watch Gonzaga. BYU has some following, but most of it is in Utah. Yes, they want to be the Mormon Notre Dame. No, it hasn't worked yet.
Who else? The only school I can think of that might arguably draw enough fans by itself to justify adding them for financial purposes is Notre Dame, and they are debatable. It is not clear that their subway alumni are going to tune in to basketball. But it does not matter. They already decided otherwise. If the Big East expands at some point, it will be in the way conferences usually do. There will be some school looking for a place to play. They will be a good fit. They will be good enough, or potentially good enough that they will improve the overall quality of the league. The Big East will be able to sell it to Fox on the basis that there will be more games to televise, and the teams in the conference are all respectable. That is about it. There is nothing else that is going to push the needle on this one.
-
Goatherder:
I am interested in knowing why you are an expert on this subject.
I'm not saying you aren't. Maybe you are best friends with a dozen "in-the-know" types from Fox, the Big East and Big East schools. Or maybe you're not.
You make a lot of definitive, "I know I'm right and everybody else is wrong" statements. Just curious why you are to be believed more than others.
-
The Big East most likely will get four bids this year, but is in danger of getting only three. MU beating Creighton, and Butler and Providence losing a couple more games could leave the Big East with only three bids. Big East needs 12 teams to have a reasonable chance of getting 6 bids every year. The NCAA tournament adds prestige to the conference and brings in money. A 3 bid season might give the Big East incentive to expand.
-
meh
-
Big East is going to remain its current configuration for the foreseeable future. There is no interest or desire among the schools to add new members. The double round robin format is well received, the TV contract is set and so far we have averaged 5 NCAA bids a year which will lead to serious dollars over the next few years. Finally the conference Presidents are keen on the fact that the schools involved are like minded and similar in overall scope. The objective of building a recognized Big East academic brand is a long term objective of the Presidents. There is plenty of room in the non conference schedule for all the teams to schedule quality opponents if that is desired.
-
Went over to UDpride for shiggles just now. They had a topic on Big 12 expansion and some are still flabbergasted that they didn't get a Big East invite lol.
-
Lived between Cinci and Dayton for 14 yrs. UD fans are in a different world. Feel they are slighted on everything. Can't grasp that they are a mid-major or in that type of conference.
-
The Big East most likely will get four bids this year, but is in danger of getting only three. MU beating Creighton, and Butler and Providence losing a couple more games could leave the Big East with only three bids. Big East needs 12 teams to have a reasonable chance of getting 6 bids every year. The NCAA tournament adds prestige to the conference and brings in money. A 3 bid season might give the Big East incentive to expand.
Zero percent chance BE only gets 3 teams. Low chance they only get 4. High chance they get 5 and small chance they get 6.
Take your BE hate hat off and use your damn brain.
-
Goatherder:
I am interested in knowing why you are an expert on this subject.
I'm not saying you aren't. Maybe you are best friends with a dozen "in-the-know" types from Fox, the Big East and Big East schools. Or maybe you're not.
You make a lot of definitive, "I know I'm right and everybody else is wrong" statements. Just curious why you are to be believed more than others.
No, just read the articles available and drew my own conclusions, like everybody else. But others have pointed out that "it is 100% guaranteed that the conference has considered and is considering _____ and would take them in a minute." The break-up was about football - pure and simple. No way the Catholic 7 wanted to play Central Florida. And it was clear that the decisions in the conference were being made with the intention of putting together a viable football conference, at whatever cost to basketball.
Immediately when the split was announced, Xavier and Butler were mentioned. The former Marquette AD took an active role in putting the new conference together. So after holding a press conference announcing the new conference and answering the question about Xavier and Butler by saying nothing had been decided, he was standing in the media room cheering fiercely as Butler knocked off #1 Indiana. Clearly, Butler and Xavier were a done deal.
Someone posted an article last year that I wish I had kept about how Creighton got in. It did have to do with Jebbie connections and the suggestion by the administrators at one school that Creighton might want to pursue the matter, and that their location would not put them out of contention. The article went into detail about what happened next. No where was it suggested that the conference approached or considered VCU, Wichita State, or any other public institution. Immediately after the line-up was announced, the commissioner said that the conference had no plans to expand in the near future, so it sure does not look like SLU or Dayton were waiting in the wings until they got their invite.
So if someone out there really can 100% guarantee that the conference is looking to expand, or that it is considering large state universities, or that it is considering schools with football teams, I would love to see what information they have, but I question whether anyone has any, other than the fact that it seems obvious to them.
-
No, just read the articles available and drew my own conclusions, like everybody else. But others have pointed out that "it is 100% guaranteed that the conference has considered and is considering _____ and would take them in a minute." The break-up was about football - pure and simple. No way the Catholic 7 wanted to play Central Florida. And it was clear that the decisions in the conference were being made with the intention of putting together a viable football conference, at whatever cost to basketball.
Immediately when the split was announced, Xavier and Butler were mentioned. The former Marquette AD took an active role in putting the new conference together. So after holding a press conference announcing the new conference and answering the question about Xavier and Butler by saying nothing had been decided, he was standing in the media room cheering fiercely as Butler knocked off #1 Indiana. Clearly, Butler and Xavier were a done deal.
Someone posted an article last year that I wish I had kept about how Creighton got in. It did have to do with Jebbie connections and the suggestion by the administrators at one school that Creighton might want to pursue the matter, and that their location would not put them out of contention. The article went into detail about what happened next. No where was it suggested that the conference approached or considered VCU, Wichita State, or any other public institution. Immediately after the line-up was announced, the commissioner said that the conference had no plans to expand in the near future, so it sure does not look like SLU or Dayton were waiting in the wings until they got their invite.
So if someone out there really can 100% guarantee that the conference is looking to expand, or that it is considering large state universities, or that it is considering schools with football teams, I would love to see what information they have, but I question whether anyone has any, other than the fact that it seems obvious to them.
OK, thanks for the honest answer.
And yes, there are quite a few Scoopers who pretty much claim to know everything about everything. If you haven't already done so, pull on your Hazmat suit and wade into the politics board sometime. You'll really find experts on everything over there! And then you'll need a long shower, because the Hazmat suit won't have totally protected you.
A few really do have some insider intel, but most don't -- about basketball or anything else.
In the end, your opinion on all of this is no more "right" than mine or Sultan's or TAMU's or anybody else's. And it certainly could be more "wrong."
-
The BE and Fox are partners. The BE isn't going to consider expansion without consulting Fox. Fox isn't going to "dictate" who the BE takes if it decides to expand. I don't think either party is all that interested in expansion. The BE isn't drawing numbers for Fox so they don't want to pay more $$$ to the conference. The BE isn't going to expand unless it increases their per school pay out.
I think Goathearder is right that IF expansion occurs, they will be looking at the exact same type of schools that are currently in the BE. Private schools. No football. Perhaps they will budge on the first. I don't see any way they budge on the second.
Of course the college sports landscape could change again before the next TV contract is negotiated which could throw the current model out the window. But in the short term, I don't see any changes. No need for them.
-
Of course the college sports landscape could change again before the next TV contract is negotiated which could throw the current model out the window. But in the short term, I don't see any changes. No need for them.
This. Totally this. Nothing more even needs to be said on the subject. (But that won't stop us!)
-
Well first, there are lots of rumors about what ESPN might have done or not done to get teams to move. They are just that - theories.
When the athletic director at Boston College is quoted as saying "TV – ESPN – is the one who told us what to do" in regards to expansion, I consider that more than a rumor or a theory.
http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/mens_basketball/articles/2011/10/09/power_move_by_acc/?page=full
-
"it is 100% guaranteed that the conference has considered and is considering _____ and would take them in a minute."
Fify.
-
It was once reported that when the Big East goes to 12 schools, that the FS1 contract goes to 600 million.
-
It was once reported that when the Big East goes to 12 schools, that the FS1 contract goes to 600 million.
What is it now?
-
It was once reported that when the Big East goes to 12 schools, that the FS1 contract goes to 600 million.
Right. But I'm sure Fox has a say in that. I can't imagine they would simply allow the conference to write a check to itself.
-
It was once reported that when the Big East goes to 12 schools, that the FS1 contract goes to 600 million.
If Fox approves of the two schools
-
If Fox approves of the two schools
Sultan brought up the lack of numbers coming in for Fox off the BigEast contract, and Greska of PaintTouches wrote a piece on this. I think the numbers are a chicken/egg genesis issue. So many non BE-alum people are just now finding FS1 on their cable menu, so I don't think that the low ratings reflect on generic college hoops fans' perceptions of the Big East product. In fact, I think the conference is already establishing stand-out branding. Example...last week I was in a high school gym watching a couple rising stars, when I overheard my coach buddy's extremely knowledgeable friend say how he laments that ESPN college hoops has become boring football school matchups. I jumped in the convo and asked if he ever watches the BigEast on FS1. He responded, "That conference and that network epitomize what pure college basketball is all about." His quote made my day. Get this...he was a Badger alum, so it càught me off guard, er Gard. So, I think Fox should go "full steam ahead" with its SOUL OF HOOPS marketing paradigm. I think great things are in store for our beloved BigEast!
I will grant that ESPN has had a few great Big12 matchups this year, but I have seen some real ACC "stinkers", and tonight's lineup was: Alabama, yawn, at Kentucky on the mainframe, LSU (LEBRON! KOBE! TIGER! SIMMONS!!!) at Arkansas...Temple at Tulsa on EspnNews...Michigan St at OhioState on the football mainframe...Kansas at gridiron rich Baylor (unenthusiastic fans) on the deuce...and drum roll...TCU at Texas Tech (heeehaw, six shooooters!!) Oops, I forgot...The fighting Buzztones of YahooTech at BC. Wake me when this pigskin carnival wraps up....yawn
-
No, just read the articles available and drew my own conclusions, like everybody else. But others have pointed out that "it is 100% guaranteed that the conference has considered and is considering _____ and would take them in a minute." The break-up was about football - pure and simple. No way the Catholic 7 wanted to play Central Florida. And it was clear that the decisions in the conference were being made with the intention of putting together a viable football conference, at whatever cost to basketball.
Immediately when the split was announced, Xavier and Butler were mentioned. The former Marquette AD took an active role in putting the new conference together. So after holding a press conference announcing the new conference and answering the question about Xavier and Butler by saying nothing had been decided, he was standing in the media room cheering fiercely as Butler knocked off #1 Indiana. Clearly, Butler and Xavier were a done deal.
Someone posted an article last year that I wish I had kept about how Creighton got in. It did have to do with Jebbie connections and the suggestion by the administrators at one school that Creighton might want to pursue the matter, and that their location would not put them out of contention. The article went into detail about what happened next. No where was it suggested that the conference approached or considered VCU, Wichita State, or any other public institution. Immediately after the line-up was announced, the commissioner said that the conference had no plans to expand in the near future, so it sure does not look like SLU or Dayton were waiting in the wings until they got their invite.
So if someone out there really can 100% guarantee that the conference is looking to expand, or that it is considering large state universities, or that it is considering schools with football teams, I would love to see what information they have, but I question whether anyone has any, other than the fact that it seems obvious to them.
From my limited 'inside' knowledge the bolded is what I believe I understand.
Let me add a couple of actual facts:
1) Senior Butler administrators accompanied Fr. Pilarz and Larry Williams on the private jet flying from Lexington to New York (or was it DC?) and back as the final deal was taking shape during the NCAA. I've forgotten some of the details but I was in direct contact with BOTH sides of that in real time down in LEX.
2) Creighton was IN in part because then Pres. Tim Lannon SJ was very tight with the MU BOT and was extremely helpful in convincing laggard Jesuit member Georgetown to join the C-7. I'm forgetting all the exact timing but my recollection is that it wasn't yet a totally #donedeal. Recall that Tim had been Advancements EVP at MU but had not been actively considered for the MU opening when Fr. Wild announced his retirement. Within days after Pilarz was announced, Tim was announced at Creighton. I don't believe there was any bad blood and I know nothing about those behind the scenes dealings. The point I'm making is that GTown had to be brought in kicking and screaming and that Lannon really helped. Note that Dan Hendrickson SJ (MU '93) is now Creighton's president further solidifying the symbiotic relationship between our two schools.
Now for pure speculation.
Note that 2/3 of the new additions to the conference were Jesuit schools. I believe those behind the scenes connections were critical to the overall deal. I've always heard directly from reliable sources that Nova has historically blocked St. Joseph's, that Gonzaga has been viewed as 'impractical on almost ever level', that SLU simply isn't worthy despite being a new TV market. Who knows what the future holds but I really believe we're holding strong at 10 for the foreseeable future unless something changes relative to the original dynamic. I have no knowledge of any Fox influence going forward and whether they'd like it bigger or not.
-
Now for pure speculation.
Note that 2/3 of the new additions to the conference were Jesuit schools. I believe those behind the scenes connections were critical to the overall deal. I've always heard directly from reliable sources that Nova has historically blocked St. Joseph's, that Gonzaga has been viewed as 'impractical on almost ever level', that SLU simply isn't worthy despite being a new TV market. Who knows what the future holds but I really believe we're holding strong at 10 for the foreseeable future unless something changes relative to the original dynamic. I have no knowledge of any Fox influence going forward and whether they'd like it bigger or not.
May be pure speculation, but it seems like pretty much the most accurate assessment of things. If the league wanted to expand for the sake of it, they easily could have. They could pull SLU and Dayton in a heartbeat. But unless there's some "too good to refuse" style offer out there, why expand?
Expanding for the television revenue? I'm sure it would be prorated, and going from $500M for 10 schools to $600M for 12 schools is adding...well...nothing because each school still gets $50M over the length of the deal. Yes, you could give lower shares to new members, but is that extra money prorated worth taking a lesser quality of program?
I stand by my feelings about Dayton. They would be a great secondary addition if there is a school we can't possibly refuse. If UConn dropped to DII football, if Notre Dame decided they don't like the ACC arrangement for their football and went back to independent, if Gonzaga realized they would be better off relocating their campus to Chicago, if one of those alternate reality-style situations occurred, then fine, take Dayton to get an even number.
Otherwise, the Flyers are fine where they are. If for no other reason than because if and when we do choose to expand, we know they would beg so desperately to be included that once #11 became obvious, #12 would just be a finger-wag away.
-
From my limited 'inside' knowledge the bolded is what I believe I understand.
Let me add a couple of actual facts:
1) Senior Butler administrators accompanied Fr. Pilarz and Larry Williams on the private jet flying from Lexington to New York (or was it DC?) and back as the final deal was taking shape during the NCAA. I've forgotten some of the details but I was in direct contact with BOTH sides of that in real time down in LEX.
2) Creighton was IN in part because then Pres. Tim Lannon SJ was very tight with the MU BOT and was extremely helpful in convincing laggard Jesuit member Georgetown to join the C-7. I'm forgetting all the exact timing but my recollection is that it wasn't yet a totally #donedeal. Recall that Tim had been Advancements EVP at MU but had not been actively considered for the MU opening when Fr. Wild announced his retirement. Within days after Pilarz was announced, Tim was announced at Creighton. I don't believe there was any bad blood and I know nothing about those behind the scenes dealings. The point I'm making is that GTown had to be brought in kicking and screaming and that Lannon really helped. Note that Dan Hendrickson SJ (MU '93) is now Creighton's president further solidifying the symbiotic relationship between our two schools.
Now for pure speculation.
Note that 2/3 of the new additions to the conference were Jesuit schools. I believe those behind the scenes connections were critical to the overall deal. I've always heard directly from reliable sources that Nova has historically blocked St. Joseph's, that Gonzaga has been viewed as 'impractical on almost ever level', that SLU simply isn't worthy despite being a new TV market. Who knows what the future holds but I really believe we're holding strong at 10 for the foreseeable future unless something changes relative to the original dynamic. I have no knowledge of any Fox influence going forward and whether they'd like it bigger or not.
Kicking and screaming?!?
What the hell was Gtown going to do? Stay in the American, playing the likes of ECU?
I'm working with hindsight here, but even back then the C-7 was clearly the best option, possibly the only real option.
-
Kicking and screaming?!?
What the hell was Gtown going to do? Stay in the American, playing the likes of ECU?
I'm working with hindsight here, but even back then the C-7 was clearly the best option, possibly the only real option.
From what I remember, Georgetown seemed to think that with Notre Dame headed to the ACC, they might be able to garner a similar, basketball-only invite.
-
May be pure speculation, but it seems like pretty much the most accurate assessment of things. If the league wanted to expand for the sake of it, they easily could have. They could pull SLU and Dayton in a heartbeat. But unless there's some "too good to refuse" style offer out there, why expand?
Expanding for the television revenue? I'm sure it would be prorated, and going from $500M for 10 schools to $600M for 12 schools is adding...well...nothing because each school still gets $50M over the length of the deal. Yes, you could give lower shares to new members, but is that extra money prorated worth taking a lesser quality of program?
I stand by my feelings about Dayton. They would be a great secondary addition if there is a school we can't possibly refuse. If UConn dropped to DII football, if Notre Dame decided they don't like the ACC arrangement for their football and went back to independent, if Gonzaga realized they would be better off relocating their campus to Chicago, if one of those alternate reality-style situations occurred, then fine, take Dayton to get an even number.
Otherwise, the Flyers are fine where they are. If for no other reason than because if and when we do choose to expand, we know they would beg so desperately to be included that once #11 became obvious, #12 would just be a finger-wag away.
All I was trying to do brew is distinguish between what I know and what I believe. I know you understand. ;D
-
Kicking and screaming?!?
What the hell was Gtown going to do? Stay in the American, playing the likes of ECU?
I'm working with hindsight here, but even back then the C-7 was clearly the best option, possibly the only real option.
Yep. I think they had hoped ACC would call. But 'kicking and screaming' is a fact. The deal almost didn't happen. And while I know many of you hate Larry, don't underestimate his role.
-
From what I remember, Georgetown seemed to think that with Notre Dame headed to the ACC, they might be able to garner a similar, basketball-only invite.
Correct
-
From what I remember, Georgetown seemed to think that with Notre Dame headed to the ACC, they might be able to garner a similar, basketball-only invite.
Can't blame 'em for trying. If they wanted to take Marquette along with Gtown and Nova, I would have been all over that.
-
Yep. I think they had hoped ACC would call. But 'kicking and screaming' is a fact. The deal almost didn't happen. And while I know many of you hate Larry, don't underestimate his role.
That's one thing that the domer didn't screw up
That's as nice as I can be to a friggin' domer. ;)
-
Yep. I think they had hoped ACC would call. But 'kicking and screaming' is a fact. The deal almost didn't happen. And while I know many of you hate Larry, don't underestimate his role.
No, Larry clearly had a major role in putting the new conference together. There were references to that when it happened. Clearly, he was close to the folks at Butler, which is why it is no surprise to me that the Butler folks came along to help finalize the deal.
I think Xavier was another obvious choice. I remember commenting some years ago when there was discussion about starting the "Catholic League" that Xavier and Cinci were pretty much a wash. At the time, Huggy Bear was still at Cinci, so some people thought I was nuts. After all, Cinci was #1 in the country a number of times and had made a Final Four. But I think I was right. A few years during that era, Xavier had a better team. And in the long run, they were going to be competitive with Cinci. Right now, they are better. So the BE kept the market and just changed to a better fit.
I did not know all the details about SLU, Dayton, and Creighton, but all of that makes perfect sense.
-
Xavier was a more obvious choice than Butler. Frankly Butler got real lucky that they got good when they did, because they were just a couple years removed from the Horizon League when the Big East called.
-
No, Larry clearly had a major role in putting the new conference together. There were references to that when it happened. Clearly, he was close to the folks at Butler, which is why it is no surprise to me that the Butler folks came along to help finalize the deal.
I think Xavier was another obvious choice. I remember commenting some years ago when there was discussion about starting the "Catholic League" that Xavier and Cinci were pretty much a wash. At the time, Huggy Bear was still at Cinci, so some people thought I was nuts. After all, Cinci was #1 in the country a number of times and had made a Final Four. But I think I was right. A few years during that era, Xavier had a better team. And in the long run, they were going to be competitive with Cinci. Right now, they are better. So the BE kept the market and just changed to a better fit.
I did not know all the details about SLU, Dayton, and Creighton, but all of that makes perfect sense.
The X thing was interesting in that there was absolutely no chatter about them in Lexington. I take that to mean that it had already been resolved.
You are all correct about Butler. They know (and knew at the time) how blessed they are. According to folks present on the plane ride back, Larry deadpanned that he 'had a condition' and that 'they owed us one' referring to the Round of 32 game that would take place between our two schools 24 hours later. Obviously said in jest, everyone including the Butler hierarchy reportedly laughed. Creighton and Butler will forever have our back in conference negotiations.
-
No one has yet addressed the elephant in the room, so I will.
When this league decides to expand, we need to do so for color diversity.
The Big East has proud traditions and a bright future, but until we address the diversity issue, we will always be a step behind. Seriously, every team but two use blue in their school colors. WTF is up with that?
Our short list needs to be Stanford, Colorado State, Tulane, Florida, Virginia Tech (no Buzz jokes, please; remember, we're not adding a coach, we're adding a jersey color), Miami (FL) and Evansville.
OK...Roy G Biv
-
Xavier was a more obvious choice than Butler. Frankly Butler got real lucky that they got good when they did, because they were just a couple years removed from the Horizon League when the Big East called.
As an avid bball fan surely you are aware of Butler's success pre-FF runs. You don't think that Butler makes the C7/BE league without those FF runs?
Personally, I've long been a Butler fan, even before the FF runs. Certainly the FF runs solidified their place, but I think that Butler is at least in the discussions of an addition, even w/o the FF runs.
-
As an avid bball fan surely you are aware of Butler's success pre-FF runs. You don't think that Butler makes the C7/BE league without those FF runs?
Personally, I've long been a Butler fan, even before the FF runs. Certainly the FF runs solidified their place, but I think that Butler is at least in the discussions of an addition, even w/o the FF runs.
Before their FF runs, they made the S16 only three times in their history. 1962, 2003 and 2007.
So I agree that they would have been "in the discussion," but they wouldn't have been the slam dunk they ended up becoming. I guess in the end they likely get the nod because the other alternatives weren't any better.
-
Before their FF runs, they made the S16 only three times in their history. 1962, 2003 and 2007.
Seems a pretty arbitrary measure of whether or not Butler belonged.
The reality is that since the late 90s, they've been as good (or better) of a program than most of the C7. In the 15 seasons prior to the realignment, they made 10 NCAA appearances, won at least one game in seven of them, went to four S16s and two Final Fours. They're a private school in the eastern half of the country, with an excellent academic reputation, a strong fan following and location in an urban market.
They were an easy pick, IMO.
-
Seems a pretty arbitrary measure of whether or not Butler belonged.
The reality is that since the late 90s, they've been as good (or better) of a program than most of the C7. In the 15 seasons prior to the realignment, they made 10 NCAA appearances, won at least one game in seven of them, went to four S16s and two Final Fours. They're a private school in the eastern half of the country, with an excellent academic reputation, a strong fan following and location in an urban market.
They were an easy pick, IMO.
Well you might be right. But since most of those appearances were from a relatively weak conference (MCC / Horizon), I am not sure they would be given the same type of weight as a school that conference members were more familiar with.
When the Great Midwest formed, Butler was never in the discussions. The Atlantic 10 didn't invite Butler until 2012. It didn't invite them when they invited Dayton, Xavier, Fordham and LaSalle in the mid 90s. It didn't invite them when they added St. Louis and Charlotte in 2005.
Part of me thinks that since schools like MU and DePaul had been affiliated in a conference with schools like Dayton and St. Louis, that those schools would have gotten more of a look. I think those FF runs made a big impact.
-
Well you might be right. But since most of those appearances were from a relatively weak conference (MCC / Horizon), I am not sure they would be given the same type of weight as a school that conference members were more familiar with.
This would be a fair criticism if Butler didn't win at least one game in the majority of their tourney appearances, usually over higher-seeded, major conference opponents. Maybe once or twice you could chalk it up as a fluke. But seven times out of 10?
When the Great Midwest formed, Butler was never in the discussions. The Atlantic 10 didn't invite Butler until 2012. It didn't invite them when they invited Dayton, Xavier, Fordham and LaSalle in the mid 90s. It didn't invite them when they added St. Louis and Charlotte in 2005.
Not sure what the point is. Great Midwest was formed in 1991 under very different circumstances, and long before Butler became the program it is today. Same with the '95 A-10 expansion. the 2005. The A-10 expansion was simply them adding a couple of teams from the imploding C-USA.
If your point is that in the mid to early 90s, Butler wouldn't have fit the BE profile, then we agree. It's also a red herring. The Nnew BE wasn't formed in 1995. It was 2013, and Butler was a different program than it was two decades earlier.
I think those FF runs made a big impact.
Obviously. Nobody is saying otherwise.
What I'm disputing is the claim that Butler "got real lucky" by getting hot for two seasons at just the time. They'd been a solid, credible program - at least as credible as half the other BE members - even before the Final Four seasons. And, as I said, other factors - location, private, academics - fell in their favor as well.
-
Barry Collier took over at Butler the second year Marquette was in the MCC. After Marquette and SLU left and the Great Midwest was formed, Xavier was the class of the conference. (To be more accurate, they probably were before then. They sent several players to the NBA during that period.) But Xavier left at the first opportunity. That is when Butler started dominating the league, which they did for a long time under a string of coaches. They were nationally ranked much of the time, and as someone pointed out, they knocked off some big names in the NCAA. One of the things we used to hear from UWM fans as to why they should get a home game was that big name teams were willing to play at Butler. Yeah, but you're not Butler. So I think Butler would have been in the mix. But back to back finals appearances pretty much locked it up. How could you pass up a team like that with that kind of consistent success? And clearly there were some discussions about how they intended to run their program in the future.
What surprises me is that SLU was not seen as good enough. They had been in three different conferences with Marquette, two with DePaul, and we just coming off the Majerus era, when they were pretty good. Apparently not good enough.
-
What surprises me is that SLU was not seen as good enough. They had been in three different conferences with Marquette, two with DePaul, and we just coming off the Majerus era, when they were pretty good. Apparently not good enough.
....outside of the last two years with Majerus and the first year of the stiff who won with a bunch of majerus' players what had slu done? What has slu ever done? Anyone looking at that 12-13 slu roster would have seen that they started five seniors and their top bench player was a senior. Their new coach wasn't good enough to sniff Majerus' jock strap and couldn't recruit a d1 caliber player if his life depended on it. They were going nowhere fast.
SLU is a meh team. The BEast will never add a meh team. Adding meh teams is what caused the C7 to split. They could live with football but not if it meant playing Tulane and ECU every season.
Dayton is also a meh team. That is why they won't be added. However, they have been decent for a longer stretch than I would have expected. Sustain this for seven or eight more years with a deep tourney run or two and maybe they can think about sitting at the big kids table.
Either you get a big name like UConn, Memphis, Notre Dame, Gonzaga, or BYU or you don't expand. Simple as that.
-
....outside of the last two years with Majerus and the first year of the stiff who won with a bunch of majerus' players what had slu done? What has slu ever done? Anyone looking at that 12-13 slu roster would have seen that they started five seniors and their top bench player was a senior. Their new coach wasn't good enough to sniff Majerus' jock strap and couldn't recruit a d1 caliber player if his life depended on it. They were going nowhere fast.
SLU is a meh team. The BEast will never add a meh team. Adding meh teams is what caused the C7 to split. They could live with football but not if it meant playing Tulane and ECU every season.
Dayton is also a meh team. That is why they won't be added. However, they have been decent for a longer stretch than I would have expected. Sustain this for seven or eight more years with a deep tourney run or two and maybe they can think about sitting at the big kids table.
Either you get a big name like UConn, Memphis, Notre Dame, Gonzaga, or BYU or you don't expand. Simple as that.
I say no expansion necessary. U Conn actively wants to be in a Power 5 so we don't want them either because the act of them leaving debases us. Gonzage GYU too far away for the minor sports. Memphis has Power 5 aspirations at some point plus they are a lousy school. Obviously Notre Dame is perfect and we could probably still do a double round robin with 11 teams. bottom line we have a great conference as it and we are on an up trend.
When you update your recruit rankings analysis it will be interesting to see how the league is doing overall in that regard. My sense is everyone is picking up some real talent.
When the TV contract is up for renewal there will several strong bidders for the Big East conference. Fox, ESPN, CBS Sports and NBC Sports. I doubt if we get the money we got from Fox as that was a special circumstance, but I think we will still get an attractive deal as we will offer a readily identifiable brand.
-
Frankly Butler Marquette got real lucky that they got good when they did, because they were just a couple years removed decade away from the Horizon League when the Big East called.
Those who live in glass houses, yada yada yada.
-
Those who live in glass houses, yada yada yada.
Hey let's compare apples and oranges.
-
Hey let's compare apples and oranges.
More like Fuji and Gala.
So you believe that MU's invitation to the Big East was in no way impacted by MU's FF run just six months earlier?
-
More like Fuji and Gala.
So you believe that MU's invitation to the Big East was in no way impacted by MU's FF run just six months earlier?
No. I think the decision to add DePaul and Marquette had already been made by then.