Dayton

[bilsu]

Isn't there some heat between the athletic administrations between Marquette and Dayton?  I seem to recall some scheduling issue a while back, which has caused some friction.  Is that right? 

As I remember it Dayton owed us a return game, which was scheduled. MU wanted to play someone else on the already scheduled date and cancelled the game with Dayton. Dayton then refused to reschedule. MU's coach and athletic director are now gone, so it should not matter. Especially, if you look at it and realize Dayton was not wrong in this, since MU broke the contract.

[MU82]

I've read this entire thread.

As was the case 2 years ago and 18 months ago and a year ago and six months ago, I still see no need to add Dayton -- or anybody else the league actually could bring in these days. (In other words, yeah, ND and Gonzaga would be great but they ain't happening so silly to even talk about 'em.)

The Big East is working well, and it's just a baby in its current form. Let's see how it looks when it's a little more grown-up before we start messin' with it.

Plus, the round robin rocks!

[GGGG]

I STILL WANT--- LOUISVILLE, UCONN, NOTRE DAME AND CINCY back in the Big East. I'm sure
a football deal could be worked out for those that would participate. This would bring prestige,
and revevenue to the BE. I know it's impossible but a great thought.

You're sure a football deal could be worked out but you know it's impossible?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

The only still feasible school that I would want to add would be UCONN. I like the double round robin and that's still plausible woth 11 teams. Hoping for a couple o-fer years for UCONN football.

[Herman Cain]

12 teams would make a better Big East tournament. 11 teams would also make a better Big East tournament. The object is to get the most bids possible. The 5th and 6th seeded teams getting a bye hurts their chances, because they have to beat the 3rd and 4th seeds. You could have a round robin with 11 teams. You would need 20 conference games. I think it is the Ohio Valley that plays a 20 game schedule.

Ohio Valley plays 16 games.

The original appeal of the Big East tournament was that anyone could beat anyone. I can remember the electricity in the Garden from those days very well. Having the 5th play the 3rd is a good thing is an opportunity for both teams to have a quality game. Last year we got 6 teams in which is 60 percent of the conference. That was among the highest percentages.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

No they wouldn't. There are provisions for expansion and the money pool gets bigger.

Only if fox approves the extra money. Which they will do for the likes of Gonzaga, BYU, Notre Dame, Memphis, UConn, etc. They would laugh in our face if we suggested more money for Dayton.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

People who think Notre Dame, BYU, UConn or Memphis are ever going to join the Big East are delusional. The football school ship has sailed.

I wouldn't bet on it. It has sailed for now, but the Big East may change their tune on football in the future (in approximately 5-6 years would be my guess) and we don't know how the landscape will change before our next contract. I don't think any of these are likely personally, which is why we won't expand. The only two I could see as realistic is BYU and Gonzaga. BYU football is independent and will likely stay that way.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Who gives a crap about DePaul outside of Chicago (or inside Chicago?)  Who gives a crap about Creighton outside of Omaha? Who gives a crap about Providence outside of Providence?

I'm not sure your expectations are fair relative to the rest of our conference.

You're right. But as Sultan said, they are already in. We're stuck with them. We needed somebody to get us to 10 initial teams. For expanding, we can and will be much pickier. And the thing that those three teams you mentioned bring us that doesn't doesn't is unique markets. Xavier covers the Dayton market. And if you really wanted to separate the Dayton and Cincy markets, the Dayton market isn't worth crap.

So in summary, Dayton sucks.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Fair. The bottom line is....we will get more respect as a 6 bid conference with 12 teams than a 4 or 5 bid conference with 10 teams.

Until we start getting 6 or 7 teams into the NCAA, we will be looked at like a mid major.  That isn't going to happen with 10 teams.

This again? Dear lord. The BE is one of the best three conferences in the country two years in a row, and some idiots are still calling it a mid major? Smh.

[mu03eng]

Fair. The bottom line is....we will get more respect as a 6 bid conference with 12 teams than a 4 or 5 bid conference with 10 teams.

Until we start getting 6 or 7 teams into the NCAA, we will be looked at like a mid major.  That isn't going to happen with 10 teams.

This just doesn't matter in reality. Three things drive "respectability" as a conference: Conference winning percentage, are your conference teams making a deep tournament run every year, and eyeballs for TV games. Nobody remembers how many bids a conference gets, they do remember if you fail out or if you make deep runs.

The Big 12 has 10 teams, are they a disrespected, no good conference that nobody thinks is any good? Should they invite Dayton into their league? Kansas and Oklahoma may not get bids because they only have 10 teams!

You're making an emotional argument for adding teams that just isn't supported logically. Here is your checklist on whether the conference expands:
-Will we get more money per school as a result?
      This requires 1 of 2 things: Giant fanbase or huge untapped TV market
-Will a teams inclusion increase the odds of having a championship team?
-Does their inclusion erode an already existing member(recruiting, tv market, etc)?
-Are they a basketball only school?

Dayton fails all of the above

[WI inferiority Complexes]

I want the Big East to add Duke and Kentucky to make it 12.  Then we can stop the silly expansion talk.

[mu03eng]

I want the Big East to add Duke and Kentucky to make it 12.  Then we can stop the silly expansion talk.

Durham is like a backwater Dayton, no thanks 

[GGGG]

This just doesn't matter in reality. Three things drive "respectability" as a conference: Conference winning percentage, are your conference teams making a deep tournament run every year, and eyeballs for TV games. Nobody remembers how many bids a conference gets, they do remember if you fail out or if you make deep runs.

The Big 12 has 10 teams, are they a disrespected, no good conference that nobody thinks is any good? Should they invite Dayton into their league? Kansas and Oklahoma may not get bids because they only have 10 teams!

You're making an emotional argument for adding teams that just isn't supported logically. Here is your checklist on whether the conference expands:
-Will we get more money per school as a result?
      This requires 1 of 2 things: Giant fanbase or huge untapped TV market
-Will a teams inclusion increase the odds of having a championship team?
-Does their inclusion erode an already existing member(recruiting, tv market, etc)?
-Are they a basketball only school?

Dayton fails all of the above

Dayton has non scholarship football like Georgetown and Butler. That's not really an obstacle.

[mu03eng]

Dayton has non scholarship football like Georgetown and Butler. That's not really an obstacle.

Fair point, so they fail on the majority of the issues 

[WarriorFan]

Dayton, Schmayton.
Bring me ND, UCONN, Gonzaga, or BYU.
If you want the BEAST to be a mid-major, bring the likes of Dayton in.
If you want the BEAST to consistently be the #1 or #2 conference, start acting like it.

[MerrittsMustache]

I want the Big East to add Duke and Kentucky to make it 12.  Then we can stop the silly expansion talk.

Unranked Duke? No thanks. They can call us when they accomplish something.

[bilsu]

Dayton, Schmayton.
Bring me ND, UCONN, Gonzaga, or BYU.
If you want the BEAST to be a mid-major, bring the likes of Dayton in.
If you want the BEAST to consistently be the #1 or #2 conference, start acting like it.

Dayton does have more all time wins than we do. Three years ago we were ahead of Dayton. We are close to falling off the top 50 winningest program list.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Dayton does have more all time wins than we do. Three years ago we were ahead of Dayton. We are close to falling off the top 50 winningest program list.

NCAA tournament appearances would seem to be a better indicator, which Marquette is tied for 13th. 

[Dawson Rental]

Dayton has non scholarship football like Georgetown and Butler. That's not really an obstacle.

Villanova too?

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Dayton, Schmayton.
Bring me ND, UCONN, Gonzaga, or BYU.
If you want the BEAST to be a mid-major, bring the likes of Dayton in.
If you want the BEAST to consistently be the #1 or #2 conference, start acting like it.

If the Big East were to expand, UCONN, Gonzaga and Cinci would be at the top of my list.  I can't for the life of me figure out why ND would be interested in returning to the BE, outside of getting back together with the Catholic schools, or if the BIG10 or SEC poached a few more from the ACC.

UCONN and Cinci would probably love to be in the BE for hoops, but obviously Cinci isn't dropping football. I could see UCONN dropping football at some point. Gonzaga seems like a stretch, but if they were in, I'd welcome them with open arms.  Not as sold on BYU, but not a terrible choice.

Realistically, its going to stay at 10 for awhile. Don't fix what isn't broken, and certainly don't dilute the league by taking on more A10 schools.

[GGGG]

Villanova too?

Nova actually has scholarship football at the FCS level.

[buckchuckler]

It truly is impressive how much hate for a school one douchey poster created.  That was some good alienating Dayton guy. 

[Aughnanure]

If the Big East were to expand, UCONN, Gonzaga and Cinci would be at the top of my list.  I can't for the life of me figure out why ND would be interested in returning to the BE, outside of getting back together with the Catholic schools, or if the BIG10 or SEC poached a few more from the ACC.

UCONN and Cinci would probably love to be in the BE for hoops, but obviously Cinci isn't dropping football. I could see UCONN dropping football at some point. Gonzaga seems like a stretch, but if they were in, I'd welcome them with open arms.  Not as sold on BYU, but not a terrible choice.

Realistically, its going to stay at 10 for awhile. Don't fix what isn't broken, and certainly don't dilute the league by taking on more A10 schools.

I would add Memphis too, and they're looking like the least likely to be picked up by a power conference. At what point does FBS football stop being worth it?

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I would add Memphis too, and they're looking like the least likely to be picked up by a power conference. At what point does FBS football stop being worth it?

On the surface, I agree. Memphis has a nice program. But isn't it widely considered a pretty terrible school? It would add a new market. Cinci is also a pretty poor school academically, and is in the same market as X, so probably not a realistic add, especially when considering they actually have a decent football program. 

I just don't see the BE schools wanting to add a school with a sketchy reputation.

[Aughnanure]

On the surface, I agree. Memphis has a nice program. But isn't it widely considered a pretty terrible school? It would add a new market. Cinci is also a pretty poor school academically, and is in the same market as X, so probably not a realistic add, especially when considering they actually have a decent football program. 

I just don't see the BE schools wanting to add a school with a sketchy reputation.

First, Cinci is not a poor school at all.

Memphis has generally been more of a commuter/regional school, especially when it was called Memphis State. Not the best reputation, has been making a pretty major efforts to improving its academic and research abilities for a while now. Not a perfect candidate, but I think its reputation is a bit of people thinking of it in the 70s/80s more. Its endowment is bigger than some BE schools already, and plus, didn't Louisville have a poor reputation for years as well?

I'd take them. This is basketball and their involvement would help in many sports. Plus you get the FedEx connection, another major market. I'd liekl to think you'd take them right away with Cincy/UConn if you could.

After Gonzaga, BYU, UConn, Cincy, Memphis there is not much worth to add immediately unless realignment caused something crazy to happen again.