The Larger Issue With College Basketball Attendance

[brewcity77]

Maybe it is direct (can socialize more easily now) or indirect (makes us more sedentary in general) but I think there is something there.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. I don't know that it's the product on the floor, the stadium experience, or any of that. I do think people are more sedentary and like leaving the house less for multiple reasons.

I was amazed going to the mall last week to find it virtually empty 10 days before Christmas. My wife bought some items that she wanted returned and I was able to go into the store, immediately go to the front of the line and finish my transaction in about 3 minutes. What's that got to do with basketball attendance? Just the comforts of home.

We can do our shopping at home, we can watch games at home, we can find dates at home, we can talk to friends face to face at home. Whether it's Amazon, a DirecTV/cable package with 500 channels, eHarmony, or Skype, many of the things you use to have to go in public to do we can now do without leaving the house, and we've become comfortable with that.

Personally, I'd say I attend about 85% of Marquette games. I usually miss no more than 2-3 games per year. When I do miss them, if it's not because of work or travel, it's simply because I'm too lazy that day to go. I'm sure declining STH packages are similar. You miss a few games because you're lazy, get comfortable at home, and realize you can save $1,000+ on tickets by staying home and have a better view of the action than you have from your seats.

I still love the experience and still plan to keep going to games. I also can't wait for the new arena to open. But I get why people would drop packages and why attendance numbers are declining. At home, the beer is cheaper, the view is better, and there's no lines at the bathroom. And if you do everything else at home, why not watch your games there, too?

[jsglow]

Probably too late tonight, but maybe another game I'd take you up on that.

That'll be great!  Sorry, I don't typically look at scoop during the game so didn't see until this morning. 

Funny thing is that we ran into some good friends last night exiting the BC and headed over to the Old German Beer Hall for a 45 minute nightcap.  It was a nice way to spend a little time with some lifelong friends right before Christmas.  Had we stayed home and watched from the couch......

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

What else is there to do in Omaha?

This. It's like a slightly bigger, but more boring Grand Rapids. At least G-Rap has a decent brewery.

[brandx]

I don't think anyone has hit what is really happening.

The proliferation of social media has replaced our social systems of community building with artificial ones. I really believe it's that simple.

Humans re-think live events as somewhere to come together with a community and build a social system because it's done online.

Same reason no one goes to high school reunions anymore.

I disagree. Try getting a ticket to an "important" live event.

[MerrittsMustache]

That'll be great!  Sorry, I don't typically look at scoop during the game so didn't see until this morning. 

Funny thing is that we ran into some good friends last night exiting the BC and headed over to the Old German Beer Hall for a 45 minute nightcap.  It was a nice way to spend a little time with some lifelong friends right before Christmas.  Had we stayed home and watched from the couch......

You could have had WAY more to drink without worrying about driving home and then "liked" your friend's Facebook post about being at the German Beer Hall 

[mujivitz06]

I disagree. Try getting a ticket to an "important" live event.

True the apex events always get sold out/high ticket demand.

We aren't talking about that, we are talking about general trends for any ordinary game/general attendance.

[GGGG]

One could argue that "apex events" are also hurting attendance at "ordinary events."

**It takes discretionary money away from attending ordinary events.  (Would you rather attend one or two apex events a year, or two dozen ordinary ones?)

**It makes the ordinary events seem too ordinary.  (Smaller crowd, dull environment, less hype)

**People would rather stay home and watch an apex event on television than sit at a live ordinary event.  (Like what will happen this Sunday at the Marquette game.  People don't want to be late to watch the Packer game.)

[Herman Cain]

What else is there to do in Omaha?

They have all the same entertainment amenities as any other Midwestern city of similar size.

They sold out the Century Link center for the NCAA womans volleyball final on Saturday night. People there are good sports fans.

[warriorchick]

They have all the same entertainment amenities as any other Midwestern city of similar size.

They sold out the Century Link center for the NCAA womans volleyball final on Saturday night. People there are good sports fans.

But they have no pro sports of any kind.  Marquette has to compete with the Bucks and the Admirals for sports entertainment dollars.

[Tugg Speedman]

They have all the same entertainment amenities as any other Midwestern city of similar size.

They sold out the Century Link center for the NCAA womans volleyball final on Saturday night. People there are good sports fans.

+1

Under what scenario could any other city get 17,000 people to a Women's college volleyball game?

Omaha is unique and leave it at that.

[brandx]

They have all the same entertainment amenities as any other Midwestern city of similar size.

They sold out the Century Link center for the NCAA womans volleyball final on Saturday night. People there are good sports fans.

You're right.

But I was referring to sports & hometown teams. Milwaukee has MU, Brewers, Bucks, and even the Packers are "sort of" a Milwaukee team.

Omaha relies on outside events like said volleyball tournament or the College WS.

Edit: Sorry, Chick - didn't see yours before I posted.

[MU82]

Try getting a ticket to an "important" live event.

About 2 hours ago, I tried to get two of the 6,000 or so supposedly available tickets to the Panthers' first playoff game.

They went on sale at 6 ET, I was on the ticketmaster site (the only place they were sold) within seconds of 6 p.m. I hit the keys I was supposed to hit, was told wait time was longer than normal, and about 5 minutes later I got a message that tickets were no longer available. Just to make sure, I tried 3 more times. No go.

Because I flat-out refuse to pay hundreds of dollars for $60 nosebleed tickets, I will be watching the game at home. And that will be fine, too. I actually probably will go to a Panthers bar and cheer my ass off for a fraction of the price, and I'll have fun doing it!

[brandx]

About 2 hours ago, I tried to get two of the 6,000 or so supposedly available tickets to the Panthers' first playoff game.

They went on sale at 6 ET, I was on the ticketmaster site (the only place they were sold) within seconds of 6 p.m. I hit the keys I was supposed to hit, was told wait time was longer than normal, and about 5 minutes later I got a message that tickets were no longer available. Just to make sure, I tried 3 more times. No go.

Because I flat-out refuse to pay hundreds of dollars for $60 nosebleed tickets, I will be watching the game at home. And that will be fine, too. I actually probably will go to a Panthers bar and cheer my ass off for a fraction of the price, and I'll have fun doing it!

I'll mark it on my Calendar to send condolences after they lose to GB

[rocky_warrior]

Omaha is unique and leave it at that.

Nebraska is Unique, in that there's aren't many sports teams.  See...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_teams_in_Nebraska

For comparison, here's Wisconsin:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_in_Wisconsin

I will say, WI has an impressive list of defunct professional teams

[MU82]

I'll mark it on my Calendar to send condolences after they lose to GB

Well played.

[Dr. Blackheart]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2015/06/19/college-football-how-to-fix-student-attendance-decline/29007681/

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well played.

I don't think you have to worry about that.  GB looks pretty pedestrian this year.  Lacks the killer instinct, though Carolina is in a similar boat.  I'd be worried about Seattle and Arizona.

[Tugg Speedman]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2015/06/19/college-football-how-to-fix-student-attendance-decline/29007681/

Nice find ...

So not only does all of college basketball have declining attendance, so does college football.  And MU attendance is down far less than average. (and MU has, year in and year out, the highest non-football school attendance in the country.)

Given all this, I have no doubt that the next home game after the students return will generate some hyperventilating thread that "no one went to the game" and "MU fans are terrible" and "the Big East is failing."

Since we are in the slow period around the holidays, maybe we should start that thread now to pass the time. 

If not, we can go back to the old standby ... MU cannot win on National TV.

[MU82]

I don't think you have to worry about that.  GB looks pretty pedestrian this year.  Lacks the killer instinct, though Carolina is in a similar boat.  I'd be worried about Seattle and Arizona.

I'm plenty worried that our reward for going 16-0 will be a divisional round game against Seattle.

"Killer instinct" is one of those cliches that doesn't mean a whole lot to me, though. The Panthers have closed out games just fine, especially in the second half of the season. The couple of times they let an opponent back in, they responded by winning anyway. The Panthers don't deserve to be called great yet, but they are a very good team.

As are the Seahawks and Cardinals. And maybe the Packers. We'll know in a few weeks!

[mu_hilltopper]

I am confident our MU attendance will climb again once we get the product back to where we were during the Buzz era.

Firstly, it should be noted that all we're talking about is Season Ticket Holders.  Walk-up purchases are just a fraction of the average.  Sure, there'll be a sellout here and there, but the other 17 games walk-up sales are near zero.

I don't believe an attendance climb will happen .. the trend will be downward from here on out.

While the product can be incrementally improved by adding wifi, confetti, t-shirts or whatever .. those do not move the needle much. 

Performance does, and yes, it's hopeful that MU has brighter days ahead. 

But a major factor for a Season Ticket Holder customer, both in the past and future .. is simply the opponents we play.  The "big game count."   In the old days, STHs bought those 10 crappy games to get 10 Big Games.  Those days are over, never to return.

Butler and Creighton may have great teams now and then, but no one is buying a season to get tickets to those games.   MU is down to games versus GTown, Nova, and every other year, UW.  Maybe MU gets one other game (Iowa) that people consider "can't miss" .. but that's it.  (Could MU add 3-can't missers to the OOC schedule?  Yup.  But nope.)

Mix in a new stadium and higher ticket prices?  The first year that stadium opens, people will keep their seats for the novelty .. but year 2 onward .. look out below.

Another factor that'll hit MU.. the new stadium is supposed to have more lower bowl seats, which means the secondary market will also then have more lowers for sale, making it even easier to pass up a 20 game package for just buying 4-5 from a scalper.

Add in the social media aspect, the HD TV aspect .. lots of reasons for a sustained decline.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Do you have any suggestions hilltopper? I don't think the future is as grim as you paint it. But I do agree that they will trend down. But I think it will be much slower and I think it won't go below a certain point. Well have seasons where it climbs due to good teams. I think the new stadium bump will be significant as well

[brewcity77]

Do you have any suggestions hilltopper? I don't think the future is as grim as you paint it. But I do agree that they will trend down. But I think it will be much slower and I think it won't go below a certain point. Well have seasons where it climbs due to good teams. I think the new stadium bump will be significant as well

I believe that if we get back to winning, say a NCAA berth the next three years and maybe one trip to the second weekend, you'll see a significant bump for the new stadium. Maybe not back to the days of Buzz, but enough that we'll be selling 90% of the tickets in the new venue and getting back to the 15,000+ averages.

I don't believe it will ever hold there, though. I'm with Hilltopper that ultimately, attendance will continue to decline. I don't think there's really much that can done about it, just a societal shift.

[GooooMarquette]

Nice find ...

So not only does all of college basketball have declining attendance, so does college football.  And MU attendance is down far less than average. (and MU has, year in and year out, the highest non-football school attendance in the country.)

Not true.  Creighton has had higher attendance than us for a few years now.  The last time MU's attendance was greater than Creighton's was 2010-11.

As an example, here are last season's numbers:  http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2015.pdf

[mu_hilltopper]

Do you have any suggestions hilltopper? I don't think the future is as grim as you paint it. But I do agree that they will trend down. I think the new stadium bump will be significant as well

I believe that if we get back to winning, say a NCAA berth the next three years and maybe one trip to the second weekend, you'll see a significant bump for the new stadium.

Addressing both posts .. I don't see it.  You've got to retain most of your current STHs, and you've got 2 major groups of people to target as new season ticket holders.  (There are other groups, but these two are the larger possible targets.)

1. Young/new alumni who loved games as students
2. People who dropped their season tickets

The #2 group .. I don't see coming back.  They performed calculus not just on one season, but future seasons because the point-system is an investment and giving up their tickets means they lose a good portion of that nut.   No new (and more expensive) stadium, nor some great Marches are going to change that.  They'd just pick up some extra scalped tickets as their interest piques.

The other group of young/new alumni .. It's safe to assume that group grows smaller each year.  Tight money, and frankly, tight time.  (It's why the golf economy is getting smaller. Fewer are willing to pay $40+ and play 4 hours of golf.)   Maybe you do buy $350 for 2 upper deck corners, but few friends are there and 20 games is a lot to commit to.   Not to mention .. they crave that crazy student section experience, and upstairs it is a library.*

I just do not see a new stadium with higher ticket prices garnering many more season package sales.  People will want to see the new stadium, so walk-ups will be higher for a year or three.. but all the negatives on a 20 game package remain.

As for winning being important .. sure.  But one S16 season, one E8 season is not going to suddenly get you 1000 new 20-game ticket customers any more.

One other trend that I haven't mentioned:  The secondary market is WAY easier to navigate now than 5+ years ago.   Click a website, see the available tickets, click click print. -- Not to mention the downward pressure when STHs realize half+ their package are games that you'd struggle to get 50% of face if sold, making you realize buying a season is a poor economic choice.

* Ok, you want a possible solution?  A lower bowl section next to the students dedicated to recent grads.  Let them retain their crazy atmosphere for a few more years, maybe they catch the fever and convert to the sweater-vest sections.

[warriorchick]

The #2 group .. I don't see coming back.  They performed calculus not just on one season, but future seasons because the point-system is an investment and giving up their tickets means they lose a good portion of that nut.   No new (and more expensive) stadium, nor some great Marches are going to change that.  They'd just pick up some extra scalped tickets as their interest piques.

I think you might be a little off base here.  From my observation, most of the folks that dropped their season tickets were already towards the back of the line, and therefore had less to lose by not renewing.  We have been season ticket holders for the entire length of the decline, and my guess is that we are about in the 60th-70th percentile in terms of points the entire time.  Also, our choice of seat location has not materially changed.  That means that in all likelihood, the vast majority of the 2,000 season tickets that were dropped were behind us, sitting in the mid-to-higher sections of the upper bowl. 

Most of the folks who dropped their seats will only be penalized a few rows or perhaps one section if they decide to start buying them again.