The Larger Issue With College Basketball Attendance

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

That said, the schedule is weak and while other BE schools are scheduling rivals who left, MU schedules Stetson. 

No doubt we've spilled a lot of pixels bemoaning the 300+ RPI teams on MU's OOC this year, so I won't belabor that point, but the claim that "other BE schools are scheduling rivals who left" is an exaggeration at best.

Thus far, there have been eight "Old Big East vs. New Big East" games on the schedule this year.

St. John's over Rutgers
Seton Hall over Rutgers
Georgetown over Syracuse
Butler over Cincinnati
Xavier over Cincinnati
Providence over Boston College
Butler over Miami (FL)
St. John's over Syracuse

As you can see, of the eight games, 3 of them involved either Xavier or Butler, the Big East newbies. One of the three Xavier/Butler games was a pre-existing annual nonconference rivalry (Cincinnati-Xavier), and another was a tournament game in Puerto Rico (Butler-Miami). 

Of the remaining 5 games involving teams who participated in the Big East Superconference era, two games were scheduled against Rutgers (Including St. John's-Rutgers, which was part of the Gavitt Games). The other three (St. Johns-Cuse, BC-PC, and GTown-Cuse) have over 30 years of history behind them. Do we really miss the Marquette-West Virginia days that much?

There are only a handful of Old Big East vs. New Big East games left on the docket. At best, they're a mixed bag in terms of watchability.

12/22/15 South Florida at Seton Hall
1/23/16 Georgetown at UConn

[We R Final Four]

Until the new stadium, yes.  Once the new stadium is built, prices will go higher.

More reason for the cheapskates to go now.

[GooooMarquette]

I agree with several of the stated reasons for declining attendance - easy HDTV availability of most games, ticket costs, etc.  And I also get that it probably isn't a deal-breaker (financially) for many schools, as they get more money from TV revenues than fans in seats.

But when you put the factors together - harder to get fans in person, schools less dependent on fans in seats - it begs the question of why teams don't simply cut prices.  They're getting most of their money from TV anyway, so why wouldn't they rather have 18K fans who paid an average of about $15 than 10K fans who paid an average of $30.  There may be an overall hit in gate revenues, but again, gate revenues aren't driving the bus.  And to the extent schools are dependent on in-person expenditures, the slight loss on ticket sales might very well be offset by concessions and other revenue sources.

Some of us season ticket holders have been around long enough that we'll keep buying regardless.  But it seems lower ticket prices might get more casual fans to pony up.

[We R Final Four]

Do we really miss the Marquette-West Virginia days that much?

Country Roads, baby.  Country Roads.

[Benny B]

I agree with several of the stated reasons for declining attendance - easy HDTV availability of most games, ticket costs, etc.  And I also get that it probably isn't a deal-breaker (financially) for many schools, as they get more money from TV revenues than fans in seats.

But when you put the factors together - harder to get fans in person, schools less dependent on fans in seats - it begs the question of why teams don't simply cut prices.  They're getting most of their money from TV anyway, so why wouldn't they rather have 18K fans who paid an average of about $15 than 10K fans who paid an average of $30.  There may be an overall hit in gate revenues, but again, gate revenues aren't driving the bus.  And to the extent schools are dependent on in-person expenditures, the slight loss on ticket sales might very well be offset by concessions and other revenue sources.

Some of us season ticket holders have been around long enough that we'll keep buying regardless.  But it seems lower ticket prices might get more casual fans to pony up.

I'd like to see cross-sections of the season ticketholders in 2007 and 2015... my guess is that you have fewer folks in the 25-35 cohort today than you had eight years ago, yet all of the other age cohorts are probably similar.

Bottom line -- the new generation of alumni simply don't care about sports as much their predecessors.  And I agree it has a good deal to do with social media.

[Litehouse]

I don't think anyone has hit what is really happening.

The proliferation of social media has replaced our social systems of community building with artificial ones. I really believe it's that simple.

Humans re-think live events as somewhere to come together with a community and build a social system because it's done online.

Same reason no one goes to high school reunions anymore.

I've thought about that issue too.  However, a big part of social media is also "checking in" or posting selfies of you and your friends at an event.  I think MU is trying to tap into that, but there's still a long way to go.  Part of it is making the games a "big event" worth showing your friends you were there.  Obviously every game won't be at that level, but some will, and the ticket office needs to leverage the demand for those "big event" games into season tickets.

[Tugg Speedman]

I agree with several of the stated reasons for declining attendance - easy HDTV availability of most games, ticket costs, etc.  And I also get that it probably isn't a deal-breaker (financially) for many schools, as they get more money from TV revenues than fans in seats.

But when you put the factors together - harder to get fans in person, schools less dependent on fans in seats - it begs the question of why teams don't simply cut prices.  They're getting most of their money from TV anyway, so why wouldn't they rather have 18K fans who paid an average of about $15 than 10K fans who paid an average of $30.  There may be an overall hit in gate revenues, but again, gate revenues aren't driving the bus.  And to the extent schools are dependent on in-person expenditures, the slight loss on ticket sales might very well be offset by concessions and other revenue sources.

Some of us season ticket holders have been around long enough that we'll keep buying regardless.  But it seems lower ticket prices might get more casual fans to pony up.

Several professional sports teams have been pitched on the idea of having no ticket prices.  Put all of them on an auction site, the team is a seller of all tickets.  No minimum price.  You can bid on the Jack Nickelson (or Dick Strong) court side seats all the way to the last row of the upper deck.  You can pay a $1000 if you want t sit next to Lovell or $1 to get into the stadium near the top of the last row.

Every study done said they will make more money under this model than their current model of printed prices on tickets. Teams will make more on the good seats, and less on the cheap seats, but more money overall than printing prices on the tickets.

(Before you ask, the model says you can bid on season tickets, or any combination of groups of tickets you want.  Further, you can re-list your tickets on the same site to resell.  The idea is to create a liquid market for tickets, not unlike the NYSE creates a liquid market for shares of companies.  And this model maximizes profits for the teams selling tickets and offers buyers an unlimited set of possibilities to get the seats you want for the price they want.  It eliminates Stub Hub and the scalper standing outside the stadium allowing the team to capture that profit. )

Yet no one really does this.  Why?  They are afraid to make the leap.  They think the market is incredibly inefficient.  They think if they did not print a ticket price, every ticket sells for $2 for all seats and they lose tons of money.  This has in smaller scales and other countries and it never happens.  The Airlines even do this with many of their unsold tickets and they always wind up making money.    (Note, the professional sports leagues, they agreed every-team will have to do it or none will do it.  So the Packers will not do this, it would have to be the NFL, including the Packers.)

I think this is your answer to ticket prices.

ADDED LATER


A follow-up to this business model is it also "fixes" the OOC schedule.  Instead of paying teams to play us (aka "buy games') offer them a percentage of the gate.   A team like Monmouth, that knows they have an "interesting" team this year will look to maximize their profit by looking at a team like MU that consistently draws in the top 15 of the nation (excluding last year's disaster) and play in a 19k stadium.  They will be interested in playing for more money than a Chicago State would get.

In other words, once ticket prices are a liquid and efficient market, you can then make OOC games a liquid and efficient market as well.

[bradley center bat]

The number of neutral court games is up significantly, which nobody is playing H/H anymore. Many don't want season-tickets, just tickets to conference games.

[bradley center bat]

10 years ago I had a crappy 27 inch console TV and now I have a 50 inch HD TV That I paid nearly the same as the crappy 27 incher.  10-15 games available on a college football Saturday.  NFL Sunday Ticket and Red Zone on Sunday.  No worrying about parking, traffic, dealing with idiots, overpriced food and drinks.  The at home experience has improved so much in these few years.  Its hard sometimes to compete with that, especially in the dead of winter in Milwaukee.

College football Saturday there is close to 40 games on national TV. Your right much easy to just stay at home. I do with football, but go to all the bb games.

[mujivitz06]

I've thought about that issue too.  However, a big part of social media is also "checking in" or posting selfies of you and your friends at an event.  I think MU is trying to tap into that, but there's still a long way to go.  Part of it is making the games a "big event" worth showing your friends you were there.  Obviously every game won't be at that level, but some will, and the ticket office needs to leverage the demand for those "big event" games into season tickets.

There is some of this yes, I think that explains a late arriving and quick to leave crowd. It's more about appearance to the experience than actually experiencing it. It's a deep sociological change that has occured a lot in the last 10 years.

[LAZER]

There is some of this yes, I think that explains a late arriving and quick to leave crowd. It's more about appearance to the experience than actually experiencing it. It's a deep sociological change that has occured a lot in the last 10 years.

I think attributing declining sporting event attendance to social media is quite a stretch.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I guess I'm the minority. I love love sporting events. I don't care if it's a cupcake beat down or a marquee matchup. I always want to be there. Hell, I used to get excited about cmu chippewa football games and salt lake city bees games when I lived in those areas. Two bad teams in two sports I really don't care about. There's an excitement and atmosphere that you don't get from the tv. I don't know, it just seems sad that this is the direction sports are going. If Ilived within 100 miles of Milwaukee id be at every game I possibly could.

[GGGG]

I don't think anyone has hit what is really happening.

The proliferation of social media has replaced our social systems of community building with artificial ones. I really believe it's that simple.

Humans re-think live events as somewhere to come together with a community and build a social system because it's done online.

Same reason no one goes to high school reunions anymore.

I am not sure I entirely agree with you.  And I would argue that social media isn't an "artificial" community.  Just a different one.

[warriorchick]

Same reason no one goes to high school reunions anymore.

I would argue that social media has increased participation in things like high school reunions.  I hadn't attended one in 25 years, but reconnecting with some of my old HS friends through social media made me want to see them in person.  Also, we used social media to find formerly "lost" members of our class and drum up interest in the reunion.

Social media certainly has caused the death of the Christmas card. I don't need to send them out any more, because I am connected with nearly everyone on my old Christmas card list on social media.  I no longer have the need to send them a picture of my family, catch them up on what's going on with us, etc.  They already know.

[GGGG]

I would argue that social media has increased participation in things like high school reunions.  I hadn't attended one in 25 years, but reconnecting with some of my old HS friends through social media made me want to see them in person.  Also, we used social media to find formerly "lost" members of our class and drum up interest in the reunion.

Believe me though, it does lessen interest in these activities.  I have seen this at our university for instance.  However we have to understand that this isn't a bad thing.  It's just different. 

[Benny B]

I think attributing declining sporting event attendance to social media is quite a stretch.

Not to speak for jivitz, but I think the logic is more correlation than causal.

[MU82]

I guess I'm the minority. I love love sporting events. I don't care if it's a cupcake beat down or a marquee matchup. I always want to be there. Hell, I used to get excited about cmu chippewa football games and salt lake city bees games when I lived in those areas. Two bad teams in two sports I really don't care about. There's an excitement and atmosphere that you don't get from the tv. I don't know, it just seems sad that this is the direction sports are going. If Ilived within 100 miles of Milwaukee id be at every game I possibly could.

I love events at which I can socialize. So I love when we have MU viewing parties here in Charlotte. We had a nice turnout for UW and we're having another one for the Providence game 1/5. Some Providence alum organized it for his group, which is small, and then contacted our person and we're piggybacking in on it. It should be a blast, with lots of fun trash talk.

Yesterday, my wife and I went to a bar to watch the Panthers-Giants game because I like being around other Panthers fans when I watch games. I do this even though I have a big plasma TV with a gorgeous HD picture. It cost us about $50 in food and drinks, but we had fun.

Now, taking that up a notch and spending $100 or much more for tickets, plus parking, plus food and drink, and now you're getting expensive and that's why I don't go to many games.

But I agree with you, TAMU. If I lived within an easy drive to Milwaukee, I'd be a season-ticket holder. Because them's my boyz!!!

[brewcity77]

Anyway, if you want to buy chick a beer tonight it'll be easy to find us.

Probably too late tonight, but maybe another game I'd take you up on that.

[Herman Cain]

I went to the Creighton North Texas game tonight. Monday night late game, against a lousy team, school was out  and there were still at least 15,000 bodies in the seats, they announced a 17,000 plus sellout. 

Creighton draws because they consistently put out a good product. The facility is very good and college basketball is event in Omaha that people will bring their families to. Many of the people at the game never even attended Creighton or another university , yet they are big supporters of the team. They love being part of the Big East and conference games are quite loud.

I am confident our MU attendance will climb again once we get the product back to where we were during the Buzz era.

[brandx]

I went to the Creighton North Texas game tonight. Monday night late game, against a lousy team, school was out  and there were still at least 15,000 bodies in the seats, they announced a 17,000 plus sellout. 

Creighton draws because they consistently put out a good product. The facility is very good and college basketball is event in Omaha that people will bring their families to. Many of the people at the game never even attended Creighton or another university , yet they are big supporters of the team. They love being part of the Big East and conference games are quite loud.

I am confident our MU attendance will climb again once we get the product back to where we were during the Buzz era.

Plus, it helps when you are the only game in town (other than a couple weeks for the College WS).

[mujivitz06]

I think attributing declining sporting event attendance to social media is quite a stretch.

Really? I think the logic is sound. Even thought it doesn't necessarily mean causation, you have to admit the correlation.

Have you tried to organize a high school reunion lately?

[mujivitz06]

I would argue that social media has increased participation in things like high school reunions.  I hadn't attended one in 25 years, but reconnecting with some of my old HS friends through social media made me want to see them in person.  Also, we used social media to find formerly "lost" members of our class and drum up interest in the reunion.

Social media certainly has caused the death of the Christmas card. I don't need to send them out any more, because I am connected with nearly everyone on my old Christmas card list on social media.  I no longer have the need to send them a picture of my family, catch them up on what's going on with us, etc.  They already know.

I was shocked to have as much trouble as I did getting interest in our high school reunion.

When we were in school our class was uniquely close, and I was baffled at the lack of interest.

Nearly every generation pre-internet has deep and loyal attendance at their reunions based on my research.

[mujivitz06]

Not to speak for jivitz, but I think the logic is more correlation than causal.

Yes, correct.

[mujivitz06]

To speak again on this last point, I guess I really don't know why this trend is happening but I think it's clear that it is and it's a trend across all live college sports. It's been brought up repeatedly by national writers in terms of college football student attendance the last 3 years.

Wallowing in complexities of scheduling, results, ticket prices etc., seem to not work because there always seem to be examples to the contrary to each point. While the product on the floor will still remain a (the) main factor in attendance, there seems to be a reason that people have to be dragged to games more and more (especially youth).

I still feel that a live game in the college setting used to be the "main" experience that was a must attend for no reason other than the construction of our social experience. That has all changed drastically with changing media. It just seems to be a factor to me, and I admit maybe just a contributing factor.

Maybe it is direct (can socialize more easily now) or indirect (makes us more sedentary in general) but I think there is something there.

Enjoying the discussion.

[warriorchick]

I went to the Creighton North Texas game tonight. Monday night late game, against a lousy team, school was out  and there were still at least 15,000 bodies in the seats, they announced a 17,000 plus sellout. 

Creighton draws because they consistently put out a good product. The facility is very good and college basketball is event in Omaha that people will bring their families to. Many of the people at the game never even attended Creighton or another university , yet they are big supporters of the team. They love being part of the Big East and conference games are quite loud.

I am confident our MU attendance will climb again once we get the product back to where we were during the Buzz era.

What else is there to do in Omaha?