Wojo took everything away from the team. Have to earn it

[BM1090]

It was and still is a poor decision in my opinion.  Attitude reflects leadership.  If you seriously cannot get your team (Ellenson, Ellenson, Cheatham, Carter, Anim, Heldt, and Cohen were all Wojo recruits) to give you a solid effort unless you resort to essentially a public shaming what does that say?

THE PLAYERS' EFFORT THE FIRST THREE GAMES OF THE SEASON WAS BETTER THAN THE COACHING FROM THE STAFF.

I do think there is a time and place for what transpired, I just think it should be used as a last stand.  Wojo essentially gambled with a move that either galvanizes a team or loses them completely three games into a season.  His job is to win basketball games and teach basketball, not life lessons.

Playing Carter for the majority of the game at PG was a much bigger factor in the outcome of this game.

I didn't read the rest of the thread, so I apologize if this has been said already, but Wojo openly admitted the coaching staff hadn't done it's jobs. They joined the team in the white t shirts.

[mattyv1908]

This one's easy. Lavin's been a head coach for what? 20 years. Wojo's in his second year. We readily admit he struggles but believe he can get better. Lavin proved over 20 years that he couldn't. Also, we criticized Lavin last year because he had a roster chock full of upperclassmen. Should have been his best season ever at St. John's. We recognize that we are in year two of rebuild.

Come on Matty, you knew this before you posted it.

That's fine you think he's a dud. He very well might be. But you are approaching Ners territory when you criticize even when someone did well. We are a long way from proving one way or another if Wojo is a dud. What level does he have to get to for you to say he's not a dud? For me, we'd have to miss the postseason this year and next year for me to say he's a dud.

TAMU

I'll take the logic a step further.  Many on this board including myself feel that while Marquette may not be the cream of the crop as far as NCAA basketball coaching jobs are concerned, it certainly is an attractive job considering the tradition, history, recent success, and commitment to the program that's given.

Shouldn't a high end basketball head coaching job like Marquette allow them the luxury of not having to hire a coach who needs on the job training?  We should be dealing with known quantities.

[fjm]

This thread has become unreadable....
Lots of people in this thread have clearly never been involved in team sports and know what motivation is.
Lots of people in this thread that want everyone to have a gold medal and not be embarrassed by their bad play.

[fjm]

TAMU

I'll take the logic a step further.  Many on this board including myself feel that while Marquette may not be the cream of the crop as far as NCAA basketball coaching jobs are concerned, it certainly is an attractive job considering the tradition, history, recent success, and commitment to the program that's given.

Shouldn't a high end basketball head coaching job like Marquette allow them the luxury of not having to hire a coach who needs on the job training?  We should be dealing with known quantities.

We could have hired Howland or Counzo or something like that... So clearly we COULD hire those people if we wanted. But Marquette, the university you mention, decided not to, so it had nothing to do with MU as a program, but MU as the people who run the athletic department.

[mattyv1908]

If people on this forum want to pretend that life lessons matter in the big business that is college basketball so they can convince themselves that they're not the monsters they really are that's fine.

MU basketball is a brand that brings recognition and most importantly revenue into the university.  It's not dissimilar to the real world.  In the real world productivity is the only thing that matters.  As a consultant that specializes in overhauling F&I departments for automotive dealer principles I wouldn't be effective if I didn't separate the difference between the quality of a person from the quality of an employee.  I've fired many better 'people' for better 'producers' and have never batted an eye.

This is high level, high revenue business.  Nothing more.  Wojo is here to win.

[mu-rara]

If people on this forum want to pretend that life lessons matter in the big business that is college basketball so they can convince themselves that they're not the monsters they really are that's fine.

MU basketball is a brand that brings recognition and most importantly revenue into the university.  It's not dissimilar to the real world.  In the real world productivity is the only thing that matters. As a consultant that specializes in overhauling F&I departments for automotive dealer principles I wouldn't be effective if I didn't separate the difference between the quality of a person from the quality of an employee.  I've fired many better 'people' for better 'producers' and have never batted an eye.

This is high level, high revenue business.  Nothing more.  Wojo is here to win.

Now I understand.

[fjm]

If people on this forum want to pretend that life lessons matter in the big business that is college basketball so they can convince themselves that they're not the monsters they really are that's fine.

MU basketball is a brand that brings recognition and most importantly revenue into the university.  It's not dissimilar to the real world.  In the real world productivity is the only thing that matters.  As a consultant that specializes in overhauling F&I departments for automotive dealer principles I wouldn't be effective if I didn't separate the difference between the quality of a person from the quality of an employee.  I've fired many better 'people' for better 'producers' and have never batted an eye.

This is high level, high revenue business.  Nothing more.  Wojo is here to win.

And his motivations worked and they won...
If you, while in this forum want to convince yourself that motivational tactics don't work in team sports or in the big business that is college basketball so that you can convince yourself that you're right, then that's fine also.

[Galway Eagle]

If people on this forum want to pretend that life lessons matter in the big business that is college basketball so they can convince themselves that they're not the monsters they really are that's fine.

MU basketball is a brand that brings recognition and most importantly revenue into the university.  It's not dissimilar to the real world.  In the real world productivity is the only thing that matters.  As a consultant that specializes in overhauling F&I departments for automotive dealer principles I wouldn't be effective if I didn't separate the difference between the quality of a person from the quality of an employee.  I've fired many better 'people' for better 'producers' and have never batted an eye.

This is high level, high revenue business.  Nothing more.  Wojo is here to win.

Not gonna lie I wouldn't trust you to coach. I feel like your program would run rampant with all sorts of the issues we had in 2011 with young girls and your excuse would be "it's not my job to teach these kids about character just to win"

[GGGG]

If people on this forum want to pretend that life lessons matter in the big business that is college basketball so they can convince themselves that they're not the monsters they really are that's fine.

MU basketball is a brand that brings recognition and most importantly revenue into the university.  It's not dissimilar to the real world.  In the real world productivity is the only thing that matters.  As a consultant that specializes in overhauling F&I departments for automotive dealer principles I wouldn't be effective if I didn't separate the difference between the quality of a person from the quality of an employee.  I've fired many better 'people' for better 'producers' and have never batted an eye.

This is high level, high revenue business.  Nothing more.  Wojo is here to win.

Of course in the "real world" productivity matters.  Of course for Marquette basketball, productivity is the only thing that matters.  But as someone who has been a personnel manager for 20+ years, I know that even the most productive employees need counseling, advice, understanding, etc. from time to time.  That's exactly the role a coach plays. 

[BM1090]

How were they any more competent?

22 turnovers
Horrible against the press
Horrible free throw shooting
Horrible late game clock management
Horrible defense giving up 80 points again

If you consider what you watched 'poise and execution' then I want a pair of whatever rose colored glasses you watched the game through.

Here's the differences -Wojo let Carter run the game at PG and they actually hit some shots.

Defense was statistically very good last night. It was an 82 possession game, so we only gave up 0.98 Points per possesion

[Sharpie]

First "block" of the season. mattyV's logic makes me ashamed that he is a fellow mu alumni. Maybe the holiday season will take some negativity out of his life. Definitely reaching Ners territory.

[MuMark]

They were more competent.

They shot 52% from the floor
Didn't settle for 3 point shots early in the clock other then a few exceptions.
They had 22 assists
LSU was held to under 40% shooting
MU out rebounded them
MU took 19 threes in the game instead of 19 threes in the first half....and made 7 of them

ps Wojo using another "gimmick" of not starting JJ and Duane "lit a fire" under them
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/353120741.html

Obviously they need to take care of the ball better and do a better job at the free throw line but anybody who didn't see a big step up in effort and execution in the game either didn't want to see it or is blind.

[mattyv1908]

Now I understand.

Thanks for the compliment.

Very few people have the ability to affect the bottom line of a company while playing an integral role in being the back stop in regards to compliance and regulations as an f&i manager.  If I can take a 200 car a month store and increase the dollar per car average in the f&i office 1000/unit that's a 2.4 million gross profit increase annually while implementing processes that insulate dealers from violations it's a hugely important service.

Scoff if you will, but considering 35-40% of state sales tax collected across the country comes directly from the purchases of vehicles, it's safe to say that dealer principles and their employees are the biggest contributors to the state programs that state sales taxes fund.

[GGGG]

Defense was statistically very good last night. It was an 82 possession game, so we only gave up 0.98 Points per possesion

I wonder how many teams turn the ball over that much and still hold a team under 1.0 ppp and an EFG somewhere in the mid 40s.

[GGGG]

Thanks for the compliment.

Very few people have the ability to affect the bottom line of a company while playing an integral role in being the back stop in regards to compliance and regulations as an f&i manager.  If I can take a 200 car a month store and increase the dollar per car average in the f&i office 1000/unit that's a 2.4 million gross profit increase annually while implementing processes that insulate dealers from violations it's a hugely important service.

Scoff if you will, but considering 35-40% of state sales tax collected across the country comes directly from the purchases of vehicles, it's safe to say that dealer principles and their employees are the biggest contributors to the state programs that state sales taxes fund.

Well hell.  No wonder you know so much about coaching college basketball!!!  Why didn't you just say this sooner???

[warriorchick]

Thanks for the compliment.

Very few people have the ability to affect the bottom line of a company while playing an integral role in being the back stop in regards to compliance and regulations as an f&i manager.  If I can take a 200 car a month store and increase the dollar per car average in the f&i office 1000/unit that's a 2.4 million gross profit increase annually while implementing processes that insulate dealers from violations it's a hugely important service.

Scoff if you will, but considering 35-40% of state sales tax collected across the country comes directly from the purchases of vehicles, it's safe to say that dealer principles and their employees are the biggest contributors to the state programs that state sales taxes fund.

[fjm]

HOLY SH!T!!! Wojo should be fired! They are wearing the white T-shirts again today! (twitter and instagram confirmed)

FIRE WOJO! WHITE T-SHIRTS!

[mattyv1908]

Well hell.  No wonder you know so much about coaching college basketball!!!  Why didn't you just say this sooner???

The university deserves better Sultan.  At least we won't have to worry about Wojo using this job as a stepping stone, that is unless returning as an assistant coach to Duke is considered an improvement.

[fjm]

What's even better is that the Marquette Basketball is using a PlainwhiteT's hashtag and are also tagging the band the Plain white T's in their instagram and twitter posts... Maybe the team and kids are into this and are rallying around it!?

We should do this all season and have a Plain White T night for one of our home games. I'm not even kidding...

[GGGG]

The university deserves better Sultan.  At least we won't have to worry about Wojo using this job as a stepping stone, that is unless returning as an assistant coach to Duke is considered an improvement.

You may be right.

However he did a very good job after Iowa, up to and including last night. 

[Loose Cannon]

If people on this forum want to pretend that life lessons matter in the big business that is college basketball so they can convince themselves that they're not the monsters they really are that's fine.

MU basketball is a brand that brings recognition and most importantly revenue into the university.  It's not dissimilar to the real world.  In the real world productivity is the only thing that matters.  As a consultant that specializes in overhauling F&I departments for automotive dealer principles I wouldn't be effective if I didn't separate the difference between the quality of a person from the quality of an employee.  I've fired many better 'people' for better 'producers' and have never batted an eye.

This is high level, high revenue business.  Nothing more.  Wojo is here to win.

  HAVe a nice Day!

[BM1090]

Don't have time to read this whole thread at work.....how did this go from "young team, need to improve, wojo needs to improve" to "Wojo sucks, we deserve better"?

[MuMark]

A: Matt Velazquez - There were times in those first three games where they definitely didn't listen to Wojo, as you've pointed out. I think he has a firmer grasp on everyone's attention now. All of the players I talked to understood the gravity of him taking away their gear, moving practice to the old gym and upping the intensity in practice. It wasn't just a gimmick. Are there still areas where they can improve? Sure, just look at Duane Wilson's ill-advised late three. But overall, the response and effort have been better. We'll see if it keeps up.

[MerrittsMustache]

"White t-shirts" is definitely ending up the next meme tournament.

[Class71]

Apparently some folks have a hard  time with opinions that are different than their's and they resort to personal attacks. Amazingly none of our opinions really matter. Someone missed that memo.

Let's stick to the facts, we won! Was it aways pretty?  No. Is their alot of work to do, yes. Did we improve? Yes.

Let's take the win and be appreciative of the progress.  This glass is half full or half empty depending on your perspective. I prefer to look at it as half full. It is one of those "life experiences" I learned after college. For me it works. You may look at it as you wish.