Bert to SMU

[Lennys Tap]

Indiana under Knight was a blue blood who did things the right way. They were Duke before Duke reached that status. When Mike Davis ran out of Knight's recruits they floundered. Then they panicked and hired a known cheater who (surprise, surprise) cheated and got caught. Then they panicked again and hired Crean. Even with the tradition and a very fertile recruiting base they are hit and miss on the court, no longer a blue blood. Off the court they're no longer a complete cesspool but they're more squirmy (Indiana Elite, Gary Harris, Hanner Perea, leading the BIG in transfers/Creanings, etc.) than most. And trouble finds their player on a regular basis.

Regarding IU's position as a "blue blood":

When Knight left in 2000 (8 years before TC), IU was a blue blood. In Knight's last 20 years the Hoosier's made the NCAA tournament 19 times. They made the Sweet 16 10 times, the Elite 8 5 times, the Final Four 3 times and won the NCAA championship 2 times. His streak of NCAA tourneys  was 15 and counting when he was fired. The one year he missed in his last 20 years he made the NIT finals. His last 4 seasons weren't great, but neither were his 4 seasons from 1977-81. And he left behind a team that made it to the NCAA final game in 2002 with a coach you wouldn't let design an out of bounds play for your CYO team.

So, in 2002, Indiana was UNQUESTIONABLY still a blue blood program. Four years of Mike Davis, two of Kelvin Sampson and six of Tom Crean have ended talk of that distinction. They all deserve some "credit".

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Nvm. Not really worth it.

[wadesworld]

Indiana under Knight was a blue blood who did things the right way. They were Duke before Duke reached that status. When Mike Davis ran out of Knight's recruits they floundered. Then they panicked and hired a known cheater who (surprise, surprise) cheated and got caught. Then they panicked again and hired Crean. Even with the tradition and a very fertile recruiting base they are hit and miss on the court, no longer a blue blood. Off the court they're no longer a complete cesspool but they're more squirmy (Indiana Elite, Gary Harris, Hanner Perea, leading the BIG in transfers/Creanings, etc.) than most. And trouble finds their player on a regular basis.

Regarding IU's position as a "blue blood":

When Knight left in 2000 (8 years before TC), IU was a blue blood. In Knight's last 20 years the Hoosier's made the NCAA tournament 19 times. They made the Sweet 16 10 times, the Elite 8 5 times, the Final Four 3 times and won the NCAA championship 2 times. His streak of NCAA tourneys  was 15 and counting when he was fired. The one year he missed in his last 20 years he made the NIT finals. His last 4 seasons weren't great, but neither were his 4 seasons from 1977-81. And he left behind a team that made it to the NCAA final game in 2002 with a coach you wouldn't let design an out of bounds play for your CYO team.

So, in 2002, Indiana was UNQUESTIONABLY still a blue blood program. Four years of Mike Davis, two of Kelvin Sampson and six of Tom Crean have ended talk of that distinction. They all deserve some "credit".

This is all fair and sums it up well.

[Golden Avalanche]

It's funny watching Marquette fans run in a tizzy defining a subjective phrase like "blue blood" as if the requirements for such a title are agreed upon by all mankind. All this because of a guy who once coached in Milwaukee? Silly.

[Jay Bee]

Absolutely true.  NO FAULT for the driver.  You can pull the report up yourself. 

Of course he feels bad for what happened, he's an 18 year old kid...who wouldn't.   If Davis doesn't jump into the car, it doesn't happen.

You need to pull the report up.

(BTW, no citations for Davis.. multiple citations for Holt...)

[Lennys Tap]

You need to pull the report up.

(BTW, no citations for Davis.. multiple citations for Holt...)

Chico don't need no stinkin' report. He's got Freddie G and TC on speed dial.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't know why everyone is so scared to look at the last 20 years and compare against every other blue blood program.  There is no comparison, and that includes the last 6 years of Knight.

One can argue in 2002 that IU was a blue blood, but they certainly weren't elite.

As for Knight running his program the right way....that's somewhat disingenious.  The old timers at IU will tell you plenty about the stuff some of his teams were doing and how the Bloomington police department kept guys off the front pages.  The world has changed.  Social media, etc.  It's a different world.  Doesn't make him any less a great coach, but people make it sound like the 12 cherubs were on those teams.  Hardly.  Plenty of drugs, booze, women, etc....get in a room with the old coaching staffs and the stories are funny as hell.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Women? Now you're telling us your sources claim players were fornicating?

[ChicosBailBonds]

You need to pull the report up.

(BTW, no citations for Davis.. multiple citations for Holt...)

Correct on the citations.  No one is disputing this.


Fault was deemed "pedestrian action" and Davis found at fault.

No fault or blame was assigned to Holt.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2014/11/03/crash-report-devin-davis-accident-details-emerge/18414869/

[ChicosBailBonds]

Women? Now you're telling us your sources claim players were fornicating?

LOL.  No, I'm talking about instances involving women like sexual assaults, etc. 

If you're going to be raped, just lay back and enjoy it.....ah, what amazing words from the head coach back then. (hopefully I don't need teal for that one as it is obvious they were stupid comments, but he made them)

[keefe]

LOL.  No, I'm talking about instances involving women like sexual assaults, etc. 

If you're going to be raped, just lay back and enjoy it.....ah, what amazing words from the head coach back then. (hopefully I don't need teal for that one as it is obvious they were stupid comments, but he made them)

I thought Claytie Williams coined that expression...

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/03/26/us/texas-candidate-s-comment-about-rape-causes-a-furor.html

[ChicosBailBonds]

I thought Claytie Williams coined that expression...

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/03/26/us/texas-candidate-s-comment-about-rape-causes-a-furor.html

Good old Bobby was 2 years ahead of Williams.   

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/27/sports/knight-is-criticized-over-rape-remark.html

[keefe]

Good old Bobby was 2 years ahead of Williams.   

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/27/sports/knight-is-criticized-over-rape-remark.html

I had forgotten about Knight's interview with Connie Chung.

Claytie Williams was a character. Only in Tejas...

[Lennys Tap]

LOL.  No, I'm talking about instances involving women like sexual assaults, etc. 

If you're going to be raped, just lay back and enjoy it.....ah, what amazing words from the head coach back then. (hopefully I don't need teal for that one as it is obvious they were stupid comments, but he made them)

Knight made a stupid analogy, realized it was stupid immediately and then clarified himself. What does that have to do with how he ran his program at Indiana? Knight had a ton of enemies in the media looking for dirt in his personal and professional life. His anger issues provided plenty, but nobody ever suggested he or his program were squirmy. Other than you, of course.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I had forgotten about Knight's interview with Connie Chung.

Claytie Williams was a character. Only in Tejas...

Yeah, but did Claytie also shoot his hunting partner (accidentally)?   


When I was a grad intern there we got a hold of the outtakes from Bobby's golfing show.  He had this show where he would golf with one of the Bloomington Herald hacks, talk about Bobby all the time, hero worship stuff....the outtakes video was one of the funniest things I have ever seen.  You would think watching this show that Bobby was a scratch golfer, but the guy was such an enormous duffer and club thrower.  He must have chucked 3 to 5 clubs a round.  It was great.  But he looked nice in his red sweater.

[4everwarriors]

Kinda like Daly, hey?

[keefe]

Yeah, but did Claytie also shoot his hunting partner (accidentally)?   

Dick Cheney...

[ChicosBailBonds]

Dick Cheney...

UW alum

[Nukem2]

UW alum

Cute...

[ChicosBailBonds]

Cute...

Their fans deny it, which makes it even cuter.

http://www.uwalumni.com/about/notable-alumni/

[GGGG]

Their fans deny it, which makes it even cuter.

http://www.uwalumni.com/about/notable-alumni/

What do you mean?  He's the first guy listed under "Government and Politics."

[keefe]

Lee Dreyfus...He was the guy with the 'Red Vest'

How did he turn out as a governor?

[Nukem2]

Their fans deny it, which makes it even cuter.

http://www.uwalumni.com/about/notable-alumni/

Ahh, I thought you were referring to UW(yoming)

[ChicosBailBonds]

What do you mean?  He's the first guy listed under "Government and Politics."

Exactly.   Talk to some of the numbnut Wisconsin fans and they will deny he is an alum....like many people here often do because they don't understand the definition of an alumnus. Of course, they also deny it because he doesn't fit their ideology. 

It's kind of funny to drop their own school alumni website to show them that he is, indeed, an alum of UW.   

[keefe]

Exactly.   Talk to some of the numbnut Wisconsin fans and they will deny he is an alum....like many people here often do because they don't understand the definition of an alumnus. Of course, they also deny it because he doesn't fit their ideology. 

It's kind of funny to drop their own school alumni website to show them that he is, indeed, an alum of UW.   

Is this because of his politics?