Bert to SMU

[keefe]

Gotta be 21, doe, ai na?

I started Marquette when I was 17. That never posed an issue for the friendly barkeeps along Wells and State Streets.

[Lennys Tap]

Haha.  So you'd rather have a team just underachieve and miss the NCAA Tournament then get "rolled" in it?  Got it.  How about a team with 2 of the top 5 draft picks in a single draft class being ranked number 1 for a large part of the regular season and only getting to the Sweet 16?  But hey, they didn't get steam rolled!

Actually that IU team did get rolled. They were manhandled by Syracuse.

[real chili 83]

Interesting because last year I visited some of my buddies still at MU and went to a massive party... 99% sure I saw Fisher there with a beer. Of course I can't be sure but how many 6-11 guys with a blond fohawk are there on mus campus?

Oh no! A kid from the state of Wisconsin having a BEER!

I hope he didn't have a brat too.

[Galway Eagle]

Oh no! A kid from the state of Wisconsin having a BEER!

I hope he didn't have a brat too.

All I'm saying is if he wasn't about the other guys partying it just seems weird that he was there. I'm not judging just seems strange

[wadesworld]

All I'm saying is if he wasn't about the other guys partying it just seems weird that he was there. I'm not judging just seems strange

I've never had a problem hanging out with people who are drinking.  I stopped drinking right after my senior year in college and I still have no problem hanging around people who are drinking, going to crowded/rowdy places, etc.  Especially if I'm there with a group of friends.  But I prefer that my friends also like to do things other than just that, and if the culture at IU was that of just play basketball and drink and do drugs when you're not playing basketball, I can certainly understand how someone who doesn't mind throwing a few back would still be turned off by that kind of culture.

I prefer not to be hanging around people while they are doing drugs.  And I definitely want nothing to do with people who are drinking heavily and then getting behind the wheel of a car.  Even when I did drink and had no problem enjoying a few (too many) cold ones with large groups of people, I still preferred to hang out with people who were not doing the first two things.  I'm not saying it makes them bad people, just not particularly the setting I was looking for.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I was at IU when Pat Knight was there and the crap going on then with alcohol and weed was crazy.  That was with Knight as coach.  In the 1970's and 1980's there were legendary stories about that stuff all the time and the Bloomington Police calling RMK if something went down.  Now, RMK would bring hell and fury to that player, but the point is that it was going on.  Rather than arrest the kid, they'd let the team discipline the players.   This stuff happens at a lot of places....including Green Bay, Wisconsin.  Those of you connected with the Packers can rattle off at least 10 of these incidents from the last 30 years. 

It's how it is.  Some of you are either naive or just plain being selective.  Don't think it didn't happen at MU, too....because it sure as hell did and has. 

[wadesworld]

I was at IU when Pat Knight was there and the crap going on then with alcohol and weed was crazy.  That was with Knight as coach.  In the 1970's and 1980's there were legendary stories about that stuff all the time and the Bloomington Police calling RMK if something went down.  Now, RMK would bring hell and fury to that player, but the point is that it was going on.  Rather than arrest the kid, they'd let the team discipline the players.   This stuff happens at a lot of places....including Green Bay, Wisconsin.  Those of you connected with the Packers can rattle off at least 10 of these incidents from the last 30 years. 

It's how it is.  Some of you are either naive or just plain being selective.  Don't think it didn't happen at MU, too....because it sure as hell did and has.

Nope. Not many athletic teams have 19 year olds drunkenly driving over their own teammates. In fact only 1 that I can think of has had that happen.

And hey, I'm not the one who used to reference the clean nature of the program as proof that Crean had succeeded in doing what he was brought in to do (get rid of all of the negativity surrounding the program, including the drug culture going on). Now we've backtracked to "a professional franchise that has 53 players on their roster has had 10 incidents in the last 30 years, see, it happens everywhere!" Far cry from "Crean has made this program clean as a whistle." Especially coming from a guy who passive aggressively brings up any incident MU had under Bert at any and every possible opportunity he could until the issues surrounding Crean's program became too public to deny anymore. Then and only then do the suspensions start rolling around. That is the sign of a man in charge. Only punish the actions after they've become public and you can't explain your way around them. Classic.

[keefe]

Don't think it didn't happen at MU, too....because it sure as hell did and has.

Oliver Lee and Sam Worthen never smoked weed. Never!

[79Warrior]

Neither did Bernard.

[GGGG]

All I'm saying is if he wasn't about the other guys partying it just seems weird that he was there. I'm not judging just seems strange

Let me explain this again.  The rumor from the IU boards has to do with "the amount" of drinking and drugs around the IU team. 

When I was in college, I had no problem hanging out with my group of friends at large parties and having a couple beers and occasionally drinking to excess.  I would have had a problem if those friends were *regularly* drinking to excess and using drugs.  See the difference?

[warriorchick]

Story on the IU boards is that Fischer came to MU because he was uncomfortable with the amount of drugs and booze being imbibed by his teammates, not just because he was homesick.     Of course, it is an internet rumor and should be treated as such.

I remember a guy transferring out of Indiana in the mid-70's because he felt he didn't really fit in...that certainly worked out well for his new school. Let's hope Luke ends up doing the same for us.

[Galway Eagle]

Wades and sultan point understood.

[Dawson Rental]

I remember a guy transferring out of Indiana in the mid-70's because he felt he didn't really fit in...that certainly worked out well for his new school. Let's hope Luke ends up doing the same for us.

Nah, that guy lost in the championship game.  What are we now, Butler?

[4everwarriors]

I remember a guy transferring out of Indiana in the mid-70's because he felt he didn't really fit in...that certainly worked out well for his new school. Let's hope Luke ends up doing the same for us.

Marquette is no Indiana State, doe, ai na?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Marquette is no Indiana State, doe, ai na?

Luke is no Larry either

[ChicosBailBonds]

Nope. Not many athletic teams have 19 year olds drunkenly driving over their own teammates. In fact only 1 that I can think of has had that happen.

I can't think of any.  Driving over teammates?  Apparently you didn't read the details, that's not what happened.

The program today vs what he walked into, NIGHT AND DAY difference.  That's why Fred Glass is sticking with him.  Night and day difference.  Not even on the same planet.  The level of drugs, the academic disaster, etc, etc.

When the rape allegations and cover up start like with Buzz, let me know.  When members of Crean's staff are fired for NCAA rules violations and lying about them....let me know.

Classic

Oh, the Patriots have only won one Super Bowl in the last 10 years.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Also, "no one has since Knight left" when speaking of "returning to the promised land" is simply false.  Unless you think making it to a National Title is falling short of the promised land.  Which is fine.  That's what you think.  Yet you continue to flaunt a Conference Championship and 2 Sweet 16s and conference rankings and claim Crean is better than Mike Davis because the B1G was harder and Mike only made it to the National Title. 

Davis was so great, with KNIGHT'S players, that he was fired a few years later.  I'll repeat, no one has sustained anything to return IU to anywhere close to what they were.  NO ONE.  Not one year where they made it to the Finals.  NO ONE.  Even Knight's last 6 years in the tournament were horrendous. It's one thing to lose games, they were often run out of the gym. 

They've been a middle level Big Ten program for more than 20 years.  You can deny this fact all you wish, but you would be dead wrong.

[keefe]

Davis was so great, with KNIGHT'S players, that he was fired a few years later.  I'll repeat, no one has sustained anything to return IU to anywhere close to what they were.  NO ONE.  Not one year where they made it to the Finals.  NO ONE.  Even Knight's last 6 years in the tournament were horrendous. It's one thing to lose games, they were often run out of the gym. 

They've been a middle level Big Ten program for more than 20 years.  You can deny this fact all you wish, but you would be dead wrong.

Wait a minute! You say that Davis went to the Final but with Knight's players then you turn around and say that Knight did nothing at the end.

Your logic is entertaining.

[wadesworld]

Davis was so great, with KNIGHT'S players, that he was fired a few years later.  I'll repeat, no one has sustained anything to return IU to anywhere close to what they were.  NO ONE.  Not one year where they made it to the Finals.  NO ONE.  Even Knight's last 6 years in the tournament were horrendous. It's one thing to lose games, they were often run out of the gym. 

They've been a middle level Big Ten program for more than 20 years.  You can deny this fact all you wish, but you would be dead wrong.

So Knight's last 6 years sucked so not even he could get IU back to where he once had them, but we can't count David's run to the National Title because it was with Knight's guys. So what you're saying is the National Title run doesn't count for anyone or for determining whether IU is a blue blood or middle of the pack B1G team? Gotcha. That makes sense. Knight doesn't get credit because he couldn't get back to where he had the program and Davis doesn't get credit because they weren't his guys, so nobody gets credit.

Again, have it both ways.

[wadesworld]

Wait a minute! You say that Davis went to the Final but with Knight's players then you turn around and say that Knight did nothing at the end.

Your logic is entertaining.

Haha exactly. I think everyone here besides Chicos is on the same page. The lengths he goes to try to defend the boyfriend is absurd. He embarrassed himself to defend someone he pretends he finds to be a dick.

[wadesworld]

I can't think of any.  Driving over teammates?  Apparently you didn't read the details, that's not what happened.

The program today vs what he walked into, NIGHT AND DAY difference.  That's why Fred Glass is sticking with him.  Night and day difference.  Not even on the same planet.  The level of drugs, the academic disaster, etc, etc.

When the rape allegations and cover up start like with Buzz, let me know.  When members of Crean's staff are fired for NCAA rules violations and lying about them....let me know.

Classic

Oh, the Patriots have only won one Super Bowl in the last 10 years.

Yup, running over his own teammate with a vehicle while being drunk at 19 years old. Way worse than anything going on under Sampson! And those multiple marijuana suspensions we've just now started seeing after these incidences couldn't be kept in house anymore show how drug free the program is! Players transferring out because of all the drug use and such. All just show how far the program has come in terms of drug use!

You also don't have the slightest clue as to what you're talking about regarding the incident under Buzz. Not the first single clue. You're talking 100% out of your ass and everyone who has any knowledge of any of it knows this. Character revealed.

Not to mention, unless I'm mistaken, Bert never coached at IU. So what does he have to do with this?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Wait a minute! You say that Davis went to the Final but with Knight's players then you turn around and say that Knight did nothing at the end.

Your logic is entertaining.

Not at all.

Knight's last 6 years they struggled mightily in the tournament...blown out, but he had two very good recruiting classes prior to being let go.  Those classes came into maturation when Davis was the head coach.  It's also why Davis couldn't do anything else because he couldn't get the talent that he inherited.

Nothing illogical about it at all, in fact entirely logical.  Really not hard Colonel.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So Knight's last 6 years sucked so not even he could get IU back to where he once had them, but we can't count David's run to the National Title because it was with Knight's guys. So what you're saying is the National Title run doesn't count for anyone or for determining whether IU is a blue blood or middle of the pack B1G team? Gotcha. That makes sense. Knight doesn't get credit because he couldn't get back to where he had the program and Davis doesn't get credit because they weren't his guys, so nobody gets credit.

Again, have it both ways.

I think you have a reading problem...I really do.    Where did I say you can't count Davis's run (not David's)?  I said sustained success, back to prominence as in a steady return to the level they were at.  Yes, they made a great run to get to the Finals.

I'll repeat, they haven't had any repeatable high level success that would be equated to a blue blood program in the last 20+ years.

1995  0-1
1996  0-1  lost by 13 to Boston College
1997  0-1  lost by 18 to Colorado
1998  1-1  lost by double digits
1999  1-1  lost by 25
2000  0-1  lost by 20 to Pepperdine
2001  0-1  lost to Kent State
2002  5-1  made it to the NCAA Finals     This was their one blue blood year
2003  1-1
2004  No tournament
2005  No tournament
2006 1-1
2007  1-1
2008  0-1
2009  No tournament, NCAA probation, one scholarship player
2010  No tournament
2011  No tournament
2012  2-1   (second Sweet 16 in 18 years)
2013  2-1   (third Sweet 16 in 19 years)   First Big Ten Title outright in 21 years
2014  No tournament
2015  0-1


Maybe you view that as a record of a blue blood.  Compare that 20 years to any other blue blood.  Conference titles, tournament success, etc.  It will come in dead last.  No one has been able to get them going.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yup, running over his own teammate with a vehicle while being drunk at 19 years old. Way worse than anything going on under Sampson! And those multiple marijuana suspensions we've just now started seeing after these incidences couldn't be kept in house anymore show how drug free the program is! Players transferring out because of all the drug use and such. All just show how far the program has come in terms of drug use!

You also don't have the slightest clue as to what you're talking about regarding the incident under Buzz. Not the first single clue. You're talking 100% out of your ass and everyone who has any knowledge of any of it knows this. Character revealed.

Not to mention, unless I'm mistaken, Bert never coached at IU. So what does he have to do with this?

Again, running over his teammate.  Clearly, you have no idea what you are talking about.  No one was run over.  No one.  Funny, you claim I have no idea about what happened with Buzz and you keep repeating that Davis was run over.  No he wasn't.  LOL.

Secondly, you are wrong again....suspensions happened BEFORE that incident.  So now you're 0 for 2.

Third, I have plenty of knowledge what happened including the civil action taken.  Tsk tsk.

Hey, 3 out of 7....character revealed.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Haha exactly. I think everyone here besides Chicos is on the same page. The lengths he goes to try to defend the boyfriend is absurd. He embarrassed himself to defend someone he pretends he finds to be a dick.

Chicos does go over the top to defend TC. But not as over the top as some here go to tear him down. The man did great things for our alma mater. He was quirky, to some he was an a$$hole, and he left in a very crap*y manner. But that doesn't negate all the positives like the final four, Dwayne Wade, the Big East, the Al, and a return to basketball relevancy. TC was by far a net positive for Marquette. The fact that all we do is b*tch about him is evidence of our maturity level. We are like 16 year old girls who are bitter about a break up.

TC has been a huge positive for IU. He has taken them from the basement to being a regular contender in the B1G. Has he met all expectations? Absolutely not. Has there been some really bad moments? Absolutely. But anyone who expects a program that has been garbage for years to turn it back into a blue blood overnight has unrealistic expectations. Yes, there have been player conduct issues. We know about them because they are being reported and the players are being held accountable for it. Don't be so naive that you would believe that Indiana is the only place where players are smoking the ganja. It happens everywhere and is ignored at most places. Hell, some places the coaches were present for it! Our players certainly enjoyed a lot of weed when they were at MU. Under Buzz, at least. I think Wojo runs a tighter ship.

In the end, TC was an a$$hole who did wonderful things for Marquette. Now he is someone else's a$$hole. Can't we leave it at that?