Cavs’ Kyrie Irving to Miss Rest of NBA Finals for Knee Surgery

[jesmu84]

What they have done consistently over a long period of time this year against top level competition.  The west has been regarded as the better conference by a long shot and they have performed at a high level all season long.

Why are you only using this year as a measure of a player's ability?

[brandx]

Of course not.  That also is part of sports.  I couldn't stand Noah before the Bulls drafted him.   It's pretty clear that's how most feel too because people were burning Lebron's jersey in Cleveland just a few years ago.   Would we all defend Bo Ryan more if he was our coach?  Probably so.
The exceptions are with guys who just do bad things, such as if the Bears would have kept Ray McDonald, I wouldn't be able to root for him.  But if guys aren't criminals and are just regular old jerks, then sure, I'll root for my jerks and against the other jerks.
I don't support any claims that Lebron is a dirty player or complains more than your average guy, because everybody does the same things.
I do think I'd feel the same whether I was a Bulls fan or a Jazz fan. I never blamed Lebron for costing the Bulls anything, as there was always plenty of blame to go around on the team itself.
I basically just prefer to see him lose than to win.  He's also always playing for championships so I just get a lot more of a chance to do that. If Dwight Howard (bad example?) or somebody who seems to draw dislike was playing for more championships, I'd maybe be doing the same thing.

I think this sums up the feelings of most sports fans.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Why are you only using this year as a measure of a player's ability?

I figure the most recent sample size likely indicates the closest proximity of their current ability.  Not perfect, but that approach seems sound.  I'm open to different time periods.

[jesmu84]

I figure the most recent sample size likely indicates the closest proximity of their current ability.  Not perfect, but that approach seems sound.  I'm open to different time periods.

Fair enough.

[StillAWarrior]

I had to laugh last night when I overheard two of my daughters (14 and 12) discussing LeBron.  My 12-year old was singing his praises, and my 14-year old acknowledged that he is good, but said she didn't like him because he's too "full of himself."  Kinda like, "MUScoop Live!"

[GGGG]

As for whole MJ piece, can you fathom if James "quit" basketball after this season, forced himself onto a AA minor baseball team, made a mockery of those around him, came back to basketball, play more, quit again, come back with another team...the internet would literally explode.

I was thinking about this earlier today and remembered that when Jordan first came back, he wore #45.  He switched back to #23 in the middle of a playoff series causing the NBA to fine the team.

http://priceonomics.com/when-michael-jordan-wore-45/

I can only imagine if Lebron did this what the outrage would be.

Of course, then there was this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir0-t5Yfq-Y

Can you imagine if Lebron did this too?  Oh my...

Look, I had no problem with what Jordan did in either case.  But the idea that Lebron is doing something unprecedented as someone who enjoys the spotlight shining on him, doesn't have a good sense of history.

[wadesworld]

I was thinking about this earlier today and remembered that when Jordan first came back, he wore #45.  He switched back to #23 in the middle of a playoff series causing the NBA to fine the team.

http://priceonomics.com/when-michael-jordan-wore-45/

I can only imagine if Lebron did this what the outrage would be.

Of course, then there was this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir0-t5Yfq-Y

Can you imagine if Lebron did this too?  Oh my...

Look, I had no problem with what Jordan did in either case.  But the idea that Lebron is doing something unprecedented as someone who enjoys the spotlight shining on him, doesn't have a good sense of history.

Only problem with that narrative is that MJ would've simply worn number 23 from the start when he returned...except that the Bulls had retired that number.  Now if MJ decided that the best player to ever wear #23 before him deserved his respect and lobbied for all NBA players to stop wearing that number, only to wear that number himself again, but only after he had his fans vote on whether he should wear it or not, then yes, there would be outrage.

[StillAWarrior]

Only problem with that narrative is that MJ would've simply worn number 23 from the start when he returned...except that the Bulls had retired that number.  Now if MJ decided that the best player to ever wear #23 before him deserved his respect and lobbied for all NBA players to stop wearing that number, only to wear that number himself again, but only after he had his fans vote on whether he should wear it or not, then yes, there would be outrage.

I'm kind of on the fence on these issues, but honestly probably leaning in your direction.  But you're not serious about the bolded part, are you?  Do you think, even for a second, that MJ couldn't have worn 23 upon his return?  This is in no way a defense of LeBron or his shenanigans with jersey numbers.

[wadesworld]

I'm kind of on the fence on these issues, but honestly probably leaning in your direction.  But you're not serious about the bolded part, are you?  Do you think, even for a second, that MJ couldn't have worn 23 upon his return?  This is in no way a defense of LeBron or his shenanigans with jersey numbers.

I'm sure he could have.  But maybe the Bulls didn't call the player whose jersey was retired to okay it with him  .

[ChicosBailBonds]

Only problem with that narrative is that MJ would've simply worn number 23 from the start when he returned...except that the Bulls had retired that number.  Now if MJ decided that the best player to ever wear #23 before him deserved his respect and lobbied for all NBA players to stop wearing that number, only to wear that number himself again, but only after he had his fans vote on whether he should wear it or not, then yes, there would be outrage.

Why does it matter that Lebron is wearing 23....Michael Jordan supports him wearing it.  Did that number get retired by the league or something?  Honestly I don't know, I'm asking.

[wadesworld]

Why does it matter that Lebron is wearing 23....Michael Jordan supports him wearing it.  Did that number get retired by the league or something?  Honestly I don't know, I'm asking.

I wouldn't have the slightest problem with it if LeBron had just worn 23 his entire career.  Or heck, if he wore it, then switched to 6, and then switched back to 23, without making a big deal of it each time.  But instead, when he decided he was going to change his number from 23, he had to make a public spectacle of it and lobbied for the rest of the players in the NBA to not wear #23 out of respect for MJ.  Then, a few years later, there goes LeBron choosing to wear #23.  Err, not really his choice, he let the fans choose for him.  If you are going to ask everyone in the NBA to stop wearing the #23, then you probably shouldn't wear #23 yourself.

[GGGG]

Only problem with that narrative is that MJ would've simply worn number 23 from the start when he returned...except that the Bulls had retired that number.  Now if MJ decided that the best player to ever wear #23 before him deserved his respect and lobbied for all NBA players to stop wearing that number, only to wear that number himself again, but only after he had his fans vote on whether he should wear it or not, then yes, there would be outrage.

My point is that 20 years ago, Jordan and others did a lot of similar things to what Lebron is doing now.  The differences are that these types of things didn't get shot around the internet in an instant and cause debate and conversations on message boards or on ESPN shows.  Even sports radio was largely in its infancy back then.  

These types of things really weren't "debated" in any significant way.  You didn't have a Skip Bayless type saying stuff like "Michael Jordan is also about himself and not the team," in order to generate eyeballs to a television show.  

Hell, Magic Johnson RETIRED from the NBA when he found out he was HIV positive.  He came back to play in that year's All-Star game.  It was somewhat controversial then, but could you imagine what it would be like now?  

[GGGG]

I wouldn't have the slightest problem with it if LeBron had just worn 23 his entire career.  Or heck, if he wore it, then switched to 6, and then switched back to 23, without making a big deal of it each time.  But instead, when he decided he was going to change his number from 23, he had to make a public spectacle of it and lobbied for the rest of the players in the NBA to not wear #23 out of respect for MJ.  Then, a few years later, there goes LeBron choosing to wear #23.  Err, not really his choice, he let the fans choose for him.  If you are going to ask everyone in the NBA to stop wearing the #23, then you probably shouldn't wear #23 yourself.

Read the article I linked above.  Michael Jordan didn't wear #23 because he always wanted to wear #45.  Furthermore "he'd made it clear that he wouldn't be wearing number 23 again, since it was the last number his father had seen him play in."

But then Nick Anderson trash-talks him a bit and next game he shows up in #23. 

Is that really substantially different than what Lebron did?  Did anyone say "well so much for that bit about his father?"  No.

[Spotcheck Billy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2O6K1GiQk

What did you think when you heard Lebron announce he was changing his name to Michael Jordan?

[MU82]

Read the article I linked above.  Michael Jordan didn't wear #23 because he always wanted to wear #45.  Furthermore "he'd made it clear that he wouldn't be wearing number 23 again, since it was the last number his father had seen him play in."

But then Nick Anderson trash-talks him a bit and next game he shows up in #23. 

Is that really substantially different than what Lebron did?  Did anyone say "well so much for that bit about his father?"  No.

Sultan, there is all kinds of recency bias going on here. LeBron is now, MJ was then, so what LeBron is doing now must be worse than what MJ did then.

Also, hero worship. Lots of folks on this board are from Chicago and worship at the altar of Michael.

And, of course, people who should know better seem not to be able to tell the difference between events that took place pre-YouTube/Facebook/Twitter/etc and post-those entities.

Jordan would have been killed for doing some of the things LeBron is doing now, and LeBron would be getting killed today for doing some of the things MJ did then. Conversely, there would have been barely a whisper about some of LeBron's doings if he had done them in 1992.

Given the incredible fishbowl in which he resides, I actually think LeBron has carried himself quite well in today's sports landscape. He's made a few blunders, but he also has been a pretty special athlete.

I find myself rooting for him. As was the case with Michael and Tiger and The Beatles and Ali and Dylan and Pujols and Nicklaus and Gretzky and Magic, I thoroughly enjoy watching a performer who is the best in the world at what he does.

[brandx]

My point is that 20 years ago, Jordan and others did a lot of similar things to what Lebron is doing now.  The differences are that these types of things didn't get shot around the internet in an instant and cause debate and conversations on message boards or on ESPN shows.  Even sports radio was largely in its infancy back then.  

These types of things really weren't "debated" in any significant way.  You didn't have a Skip Bayless type saying stuff like "Michael Jordan is also about himself and not the team," in order to generate eyeballs to a television show.  

I generally agree, but MJ got a lot of heat because he was compared to Magic and Bird. Those guys made everyone around them better; Michael was all about his own numbers.

At least that was the general narrative until the Bulls started winning championships.

[GGGG]

Sultan, there is all kinds of recency bias going on here. LeBron is now, MJ was then, so what LeBron is doing now must be worse than what MJ did then.

Also, hero worship. Lots of folks on this board are from Chicago and worship at the altar of Michael.

And, of course, people who should know better seem not to be able to tell the difference between events that took place pre-YouTube/Facebook/Twitter/etc and post-those entities.

Jordan would have been killed for doing some of the things LeBron is doing now, and LeBron would be getting killed today for doing some of the things MJ did then. Conversely, there would have been barely a whisper about some of LeBron's doings if he had done them in 1992.

Given the incredible fishbowl in which he resides, I actually think LeBron has carried himself quite well in today's sports landscape. He's made a few blunders, but he also has been a pretty special athlete.

I find myself rooting for him. As was the case with Michael and Tiger and The Beatles and Ali and Dylan and Pujols and Nicklaus and Gretzky and Magic, I thoroughly enjoy watching a performer who is the best in the world at what he does.

I pretty much agree with all of this...

I generally agree, but MJ got a lot of heat because he was compared to Magic and Bird. Those guys made everyone around them better; Michael was all about his own numbers.

At least that was the general narrative until the Bulls started winning championships.

And this...

And I am rooting for Golden State in this series because I love the way they play.  But if Cleveland wins, I will recognize it for what it is.

[MU82]

I pretty much agree with all of this...

And this...

And I am rooting for Golden State in this series because I love the way they play.  But if Cleveland wins, I will recognize it for what it is.

I also like the way the Warriors play, and I often find myself not liking Cleveland's offense -- lots of standing around, watching LeBron dribble down the clock at the top of the key. It's like MU's offense last season, but substitute LeBron for Derrick - ha!

I am rooting for LeBron but this is one of those situations where I will be perfectly happy if the other team wins. I like Curry and Green and several other Warriors, and Kerr is a really class act.

[4everwarriors]

Is it Jordan's number or jersey that's retired, hey?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I wouldn't have the slightest problem with it if LeBron had just worn 23 his entire career.  Or heck, if he wore it, then switched to 6, and then switched back to 23, without making a big deal of it each time.  But instead, when he decided he was going to change his number from 23, he had to make a public spectacle of it and lobbied for the rest of the players in the NBA to not wear #23 out of respect for MJ.  Then, a few years later, there goes LeBron choosing to wear #23.  Err, not really his choice, he let the fans choose for him.  If you are going to ask everyone in the NBA to stop wearing the #23, then you probably shouldn't wear #23 yourself.

And despite making that push for it, the league and others said no.  He tried, it didn't happen.  Well, he moved on.  People change their minds. 

He was for it before he was against it.....if he runs for office it will hurt him, unless he runs for office in Ohio where if they win two more games (I still don't think they will), he will win in a landslide.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I also like the way the Warriors play, and I often find myself not liking Cleveland's offense -- lots of standing around, watching LeBron dribble down the clock at the top of the key. It's like MU's offense last season, but substitute LeBron for Derrick - ha!

I am rooting for LeBron but this is one of those situations where I will be perfectly happy if the other team wins. I like Curry and Green and several other Warriors, and Kerr is a really class act.

That's because of the injuries.  The offense is what it is because of what they have in terms of warm bodies.

[GGGG]

wades thinks that Lebron fell into that camera on purpose.

[wadesworld]

wades thinks that Lebron fell into that camera on purpose.

So now you're not just stalking my every post to reply to it but you're posting for me hey? That's outstanding. My entertainment is no longer needed, Sultan can just post for me! Appreciate it, I could spend my time better elsewhere.

PS How's this for entertainment? Somebody thinks Joel Anthony is a good comparison for Timofy Mosgov. Hilarious.

Little douche.

[NavinRJohnson]

wades thinks that Lebron fell into that camera on purpose.

[GGGG]

So now you're not just stalking my every post to reply to it but you're posting for me hey? That's outstanding. My entertainment is no longer needed, Sultan can just post for me! Appreciate it, I could spend my time better elsewhere.

PS How's this for entertainment? Somebody thinks Joel Anthony is a good comparison for Timofy Mosgov. Hilarious.

Little douche.

Oh come on now...  Just giving you a little sh*t.