Freshmen starting to arrive - Anim to wear #2, Cheatham to wear #24

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Deane, Rick and O'Neil did their best to kill everything Al did...

This is an astonishing statement. Rick and Deane may not have been great coaches at Marquette. Far from perfect, for sure. But Kevin O'Neill? Are you kidding? I'd love to hear how you think he did his best to kill the program. Like I said, astonishing.

[The Equalizer]

LOL, cmon.

Marquette was one of 24 teams invited to the tournament his only year making it.  Almost all of whom were conference winners with very little room for at large bids.  To judge his value based on the number of tournaments he made shows a complete lack of historical perspective.

To be fair, in that era it was probably easier for Marquette as an independent to make the tournament. Only conference champions made the tournament, so a strong 2nd place conference team was relegated to the NIT. Meanwhile, multiple independents could make the tournament.

Also, the number of tournament teams isn't relevant without considering the number of D1 teams. Back then there were only about 150 D1 teams with 24 making the tournament.  D1 has 347 teams today, so on a percentage basis, its pretty close.

[brewcity77]

Clarification: Diener did reach out to Thompson about using No. 24. https://t.co/0n9HXndxLl

So...nothing to see here.

[The Equalizer]

This is an astonishing statement. Rick and Deane may not have been great coaches at Marquette. Far from perfect, for sure. But Kevin O'Neill? Are you kidding? I'd love to hear how you think he did his best to kill the program. Like I said, astonishing.

O'neill wasn't trying to kill the program, but he hated MU's tradition and thought fans were constantly living in the past. He could care less about traditional rivals with Notre Dame or Wisconsin, and couldn't stand comparisons to Al.

[bilsu]

I am going by memory, but Al was hired after MU won only five games. I believe Al's first year he won 8 games and his second year he went 14-12. His third year, which was Thompson's sopomore year he made the NIT finals. The NIT back then was a far superior tournament to what it is now. Thompson's junior year MU made the NCAA tournament and his senior year team with Dean Meminger lost in overtime to Purdue for a chance to go to the final four ( I was at that game). That is quite a leap from being one of the worst teams in basketball to blowing the opportunity to pay in the final four. Thompson was not surrounded by other pro players. He had Meminger his senior year and maybe Bob Lackey had a cup of tea in the ABA. Bo Ellis was surrounded by other pro players, which somewhat hid how good he was. The NCAA tournament can be a crap shoot, but one should remember the 1978 team returned everyone, but Bill Neary, Bo Ellis and Al McGuire. Whitehead getting thrown out of the game was a fluke, but Whitehead, Toone, Byrd, Boylan , Lee, Rosenberger, Ulice Payne simply were not as good without Bo Ellis.

[CAGASS24]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/29207369.html?ipad=y

I don't have a take on the jersey retirement issue, but wanted to point out that people should be very cognizant about what is said on this board - some folks remark that they can say whatever they please (wild speculation, pure falsehoods, obscene, derogatory filth, and sometimes even private, personal, and maybe even harmful facts) regarding MU basketball simply because this is a forum site about MU basketball.  IN other words, the site is free, 'private', unsanctioned, and made up of a bunch of anonymous avatars.  However, it is quite clear that there are people on here that have "access to" the more traditional media outlets and, in general, likely use this site for source information.  I'm not saying that's a negative on them, it makes perfect sense, but just be aware of it before you post.

[Goose]

Too lazy to read all 5 pages of this thread but think it is joke giving out #24. I cannot understand that MU athletics still does stupid things in regards to how they represent themselves. George's number should never be worn again by an MU basketball player. I would add Wade, Lee and Ellis to that list. Those four deserve the honor of truly having their numbers retired.

[4everwarriors]

So...nothing to see here.

And that's why George isn't returnin' phone messages, hey?

[jsglow]

Too lazy to read all 5 pages of this thread but think it is joke giving out #24. I cannot understand that MU athletics still does stupid things in regards to how they represent themselves. George's number should never be worn again by an MU basketball player. I would add Wade, Lee and Ellis to that list. Those four deserve the honor of truly having their numbers retired.

That's the take several of us have.  And a comment from the Athletic Dept. about retired numbers vs. retired jerseys might be a good idea too.

[4everwarriors]

I am going by memory, but Al was hired after MU won only five games. I believe Al's first year he won 8 games and his second year he went 14-12. His third year, which was Thompson's sopomore year he made the NIT finals. The NIT back then was a far superior tournament to what it is now. Thompson's junior year MU made the NCAA tournament and his senior year team with Dean Meminger lost in overtime to Purdue for a chance to go to the final four ( I was at that game). That is quite a leap from being one of the worst teams in basketball to blowing the opportunity to pay in the final four. Thompson was not surrounded by other pro players. He had Meminger his senior year and maybe Bob Lackey had a cup of tea in the ABA. Bo Ellis was surrounded by other pro players, which somewhat hid how good he was. The NCAA tournament can be a crap shoot, but one should remember the 1978 team returned everyone, but Bill Neary, Bo Ellis and Al McGuire. Whitehead getting thrown out of the game was a fluke, but Whitehead, Toone, Byrd, Boylan , Lee, Rosenberger, Ulice Payne simply were not as good without Bo Ellis.

Black Swan never played with Brute Force.

[GGGG]

O'neill wasn't trying to kill the program, but he hated MU's tradition and thought fans were constantly living in the past. He could care less about traditional rivals with Notre Dame or Wisconsin, and couldn't stand comparisons to Al.

O'Neill rescued Marquette basketball.  Period. 

[GGGG]

To be fair, in that era it was probably easier for Marquette as an independent to make the tournament. Only conference champions made the tournament, so a strong 2nd place conference team was relegated to the NIT. Meanwhile, multiple independents could make the tournament.

Also, the number of tournament teams isn't relevant without considering the number of D1 teams. Back then there were only about 150 D1 teams with 24 making the tournament.  D1 has 347 teams today, so on a percentage basis, its pretty close.

Using total number of teams in the NCAA doesn't make sense unless you want to clump Marquette basketball in with all the low major teams.  You simply are lacking historical perspective to compare George Thompson with Jerel McNeal.

[4everwarriors]

That's the take several of us have.  And a comment from the Athletic Dept. about retired numbers vs. retired jerseys might be a good idea too.

Athletic Dept., Pathetic Dept.----the fact remains Warrior greats had their NUMBER retired (as in never to be used again). None of this would be goin' down if that worm, Crean, hadn't tried to stick his gurkee out.
George isn't on board with this or he'd make a politically correct statement such as, "I'm honored that my number will once again be worn by this wonderful student athlete."

[GGGG]

Athletic Dept., Pathetic Dept.----the fact remains Warrior greats had their NUMBER retired (as in never to be used again). None of this would be goin' down if that worm, Crean, hadn't tried to stick his gurkee out.
George isn't on board with this or he'd make a politically correct statement such as, "I'm honored that my number will once again be worn by this wonderful student athlete."

You can't blame Crean for this.

You can blame Marquette for retiring numbers that probably didn't live up to the standards they should have.  I mean, if you are retiring Maurice Lucas number, you probably should retire Jae Crowder's.

[The Lens]

O'neill wasn't trying to kill the program, but he hated MU's tradition and thought fans were constantly living in the past. He could care less about traditional rivals with Notre Dame or Wisconsin, and couldn't stand comparisons to Al.

Completely untrue.  KO wanted to beat UW / ND as much as anyone.  But he also realized that MU's world was chnaging and conference play was important.  He was trying in his own, blunt way to educate fans.  I've talked with enough of his players who said he wanted to win those traditional rival games as much or more than anyone.  

[4everwarriors]

When Jae hangs some doofus out McCormick's 8th floor windows by his ankles and the kid lives to talk 'bout it, then retire Crowder's number, hey?

[The Lens]

And to everyone who thinks this just a bunch of old guys on a message board getting worked up, this is now the lead on JSOnline.  Marquette hoops gets that treatment four ways:

1) Final Four
2) New Coach
3) Player Arrested
4) Unretiring GT's #


This is a big deal

[bilsu]

Black Swan never played with Brute Force.

I was not sure. I just was trying to think what other pro players Thompson might of teamed with. So it looks like it was only Meninger for one year. This makes his accomplishments even greater, but it also shows why he averaged 20 points a game.

[Galway Eagle]

When Jae hangs some doofus out McCormick's 8th floor windows by his ankles and the kid lives to talk 'bout it, then retire Crowder's number, hey?

In 2010 you said you weren't sure if that was an urban legend or not did you get confirmation?

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21888.30;imode

[oldwarrior81]

I was not sure. I just was trying to think what other pro players Thompson might of teamed with. So it looks like it was only Meninger for one year. This makes his accomplishments even greater, but it also shows why he averaged 20 points a game.

Joe Thomas played two seasons with George.  He also had a short stint in the NBA (39 games)

[Spotcheck Billy]

Marquette has retired 11 jerseys. Those in recognition of former players are No. 3 (Dwyane Wade), 14 (Dean Meminger), 15 (Butch Lee), 20 (Maurice Lucas), 24 (Thompson), 31 (Bo Ellis and Glenn 'Doc' Rivers), 43 (Earl Tatum) and 44 (Don Kojis).

The university also retired No. 11 in honor of the Apollo 11 crew, No. 38 in honor of the 38 years Robert Weingart served as athletic trainer and No. 77 in recognition of former head coach Al McGuire, who led the school to its 1977 national championship victory.

If those numbers were taken out of use, Marquette would be down nine of a possible 36 numbers that can be used on uniforms.


http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/marquette-puts-george-thompsons-retired-no-24-back-in-circulation-again-b99508238z1-305269861.html

I don't follow his math, shouldn't that read 'down to 25 out of a possible 36'?

[Dawson Rental]

Why is everyone so worked up about Cheatham wearing Thompson's number, but not about Anim wearing Dawson's?

Ah ha!  The last of the Ners disciples finally reveals himself!!!

[Lennys Tap]

Marquette has retired 11 jerseys. Those in recognition of former players are No. 3 (Dwyane Wade), 14 (Dean Meminger), 15 (Butch Lee), 20 (Maurice Lucas), 24 (Thompson), 31 (Bo Ellis and Glenn 'Doc' Rivers), 43 (Earl Tatum) and 44 (Don Kojis).

The university also retired No. 11 in honor of the Apollo 11 crew, No. 38 in honor of the 38 years Robert Weingart served as athletic trainer and No. 77 in recognition of former head coach Al McGuire, who led the school to its 1977 national championship victory.

If those numbers were taken out of use, Marquette would be down nine of a possible 36 numbers that can be used on uniforms.


http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/marquette-puts-george-thompsons-retired-no-24-back-in-circulation-again-b99508238z1-305269861.html

I don't follow his math, shouldn't that read 'down to 25 out of a possible 36'?

38 and 77 are numbers that can't be worn regardless of whether they've been retired.

[Dawson Rental]

I'm glad somebody finally mentioned Kojis.  Not only was he a great basketball player for MU IIRC graduating as MU's all time leading rebounder, he played for the 1961-62 Packers.

[StillAWarrior]

Marquette has retired 11 jerseys. Those in recognition of former players are No. 3 (Dwyane Wade), 14 (Dean Meminger), 15 (Butch Lee), 20 (Maurice Lucas), 24 (Thompson), 31 (Bo Ellis and Glenn 'Doc' Rivers), 43 (Earl Tatum) and 44 (Don Kojis).

The university also retired No. 11 in honor of the Apollo 11 crew, No. 38 in honor of the 38 years Robert Weingart served as athletic trainer and No. 77 in recognition of former head coach Al McGuire, who led the school to its 1977 national championship victory.

If those numbers were taken out of use, Marquette would be down nine of a possible 36 numbers that can be used on uniforms.


http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/marquette-puts-george-thompsons-retired-no-24-back-in-circulation-again-b99508238z1-305269861.html

I don't follow his math, shouldn't that read 'down to 25 out of a possible 36'?

It says "down nine of a possible 36" (i.e., 27) -- not "down to nine out of a possible 36."

Poor writing, not poor math.