MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: slack00 on May 27, 2015, 09:51:32 AM
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http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2015/5/27/8663217/marquette-basketball-sacar-anim-haanif-cheatham-george-thompson-lazar-hayward
(http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2015/5/27/8663217/marquette-basketball-sacar-anim-haanif-cheatham-george-thompson-lazar-hayward)
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I have no problem with Cheatham wearing Thompson's #24. I'm too young to have watched him play so for me someone else wearing #24 brings Thompson's accomplishments back to the forefront.
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I'm all for retiring jerseys, not numbers. Though it's not that difficult to find another number to avoid the retired ones, at least while there's still negative reaction to it being used. I hope they ran it by GT and didn't make the same mistake nine years later.
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George Thompson is Marquette Basketball and is Al McGuire Basketball. If you are going to put Al on your jersey, trumpet that you play on the Al McGuire Court, practice in the Al McGuire Center and have an annual Al's night, I would hope you would clear with Brute Force the "unretiring" of his number.
I was born in 1975 but in my opinion, no one means more to MU hoops as a player, not Bo, not Butch, not Dwyane,
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The number belong to George Thompson who is the "godfather" of all that is modern Marquette Basketball.
It was retired and should stay retired. To "recycle" it cheapens the tradition of the program.
Have you seen any NY Yankee wearing number 3?
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Did somebody talk to George about this? There was little doubt Lazar was given the number by Crean out of spite (Crean also orchestrated his ouster from the booth).
How would people feel if #3 or #15 were re issued? I don't understand why it always seems to be #24.
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Let me also add, that I have been very impressed with how Wojo incorporates the past by listing every player who wore that number, in the current player's locker. More than with TC or Buzz, I would think Wojo handled this correctly.
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Let me also add, that I have been very impressed with how Wojo incorporates the past by listing every player who wore that number, in the current player's locker. More than with TC or Buzz, I would think Wojo handled this correctly.
I can totally picture Wojo handing out that #24 uni and as Haanif reaches out to take it, Wojo pulls it back, leans over, pauses, looks him straight in the eye, and says, "You better damn well do this jersey proud."
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Anon Eagle makes a good point when he says 25% of jersey numbers available at Marquette have been retired. That's ridiculous. Retiring so many makes it lose its value.
Here's an idea: Do what Michigan football does. If a player wears a jersey that is honored, they also wear a small patch with the name of the former player. Very cool from a tradition and marketing standpoint. The school also connects the current player with the honored one, and acts as a mentor.
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Anon Eagle makes a good point when he says 25% of jersey numbers available at Marquette have been retired. That's ridiculous. Retiring so many makes it lose its value.
Thanks Crean! And can we stop the ridiculousness and unretire #11?
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Retire certain numbers that should never be worn again.
3 - Wade
15 - Lee
24 - Thompson
31 - Ellis
The rest are jerseys that can be honored at a much lower standard. That standard could include people like Jerel McNeal, Wes Matthews, Jae Crowder, Jimmy Butler, Tony Smith, etc.
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Retire certain numbers that should never be worn again.
3 - Wade
15 - Lee
24 - Thompson
31 - Ellis
The rest are jerseys that can be honored at a much lower standard. That standard could include people like Jerel McNeal, Wes Matthews, Jae Crowder, Jimmy Butler, Tony Smith, etc.
I'd keep 77 retired, as well.
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I think Haanif won't be stranger to what the number means. I don't know this for sure by any means but Wojo just seems like the type of guy who would do a hour crash course on MU Basketball history. Like a super version of that remember the Titans video.
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I'd keep 77 retired, as well.
Not a number that can legally be worn anyway, so I'm fine with it staying retired too!
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When is a retired jersey "not" retired? What does George think about this?
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What do they do at places like Duke and Kentucky, who have scores of players who are good enough to have their numbers retired (at least in comparison to most other schools)?
Maybe Wojo thinks that in the next couple of decades we are going to have so many great players, we might as well part with tradition now. ;)
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I'm pissed off at this. It's disrespectful, unnecessary, and diminishes the accomplishment, duly earned, of one of our greatest Warriors. There remains a plethora of other numbers to choose. That ass hole Crean started this bullchit and his sorry ass needs to be hung out to dry for it.
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For all we know they may have asked George for permission. If he is okay with it, everyone else should be.
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Not a number that can legally be worn anyway, so I'm fine with it staying retired too!
I never knew there was a restriction on what numbers were allowed. I punched some coordinates into the google machine and found this: Legal numbers are: 00, 0-5, 10-15, 20-25, 30-35, 40-45, 50-55. Team rosters may not include both 0, and 00. Members of the same team can not use the same number.
What is the point of that?
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The 3 blind mice can't handle a more complicated system, hey?
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I never knew there was a restriction on what numbers were allowed. I punched some coordinates into the google machine and found this: Legal numbers are: 00, 0-5, 10-15, 20-25, 30-35, 40-45, 50-55. Team rosters may not include both 0, and 00. Members of the same team can not use the same number.
What is the point of that?
to make it easy on the ref. they can easily tell the scoreboard foul on whatever player by holding up their fingers
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to make it easy on the ref. they can easily tell the scoreboard foul on whatever player by holding up their fingers
Yep. I have seen someone get a technical foul for wearing jersey #17. Why her school would even print a jersey like that is a mystery.
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to make it easy on the ref. they can easily tell the scoreboard foul on whatever player by holding up their fingers
Ah yes. I remember the near collapse of numerous NBA officials when calling a foul on Rodman.
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It's just a number.
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In all fairness he lead us to two ncaa appearances and an NIT finals appearance. I think he was great and on the ground floor of the modern era of MU basketball. But did he give us much more than someone like Jerel McNeal? Both all time scorers after leaving, both lead us to great success but no championships or final fours. Didn't exactly have a massively productive professional career where we'd retire him for that (Rivers) I just kind of think if we're going to retire numbers they should have gotten us a final four at least.
It's not like it's Wade.
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I never knew there was a restriction on what numbers were allowed. I punched some coordinates into the google machine and found this: Legal numbers are: 00, 0-5, 10-15, 20-25, 30-35, 40-45, 50-55. Team rosters may not include both 0, and 00. Members of the same team can not use the same number.
What is the point of that?
College refs use one hand to notify the official scorer of the number of the person fouled.
NBA refs, because they are more advanced, are able to manage to use both hands without confusion.
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College refs use one hand to notify the official scorer of the number of the person fouled.
NBA refs, because they are more advanced, are able to manage to use both hands without confusion.
Well that's an easy fix. NBA refs aren't allowed to chew gum during games. If the NCAA would man up and ban gum from college refs they could make all numbers available. Maybe I should be commissioner.
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Retire certain numbers that should never be worn again.
3 - Wade
15 - Lee
24 - Thompson
31 - Ellis
The rest are jerseys that can be honored at a much lower standard. That standard could include people like Jerel McNeal, Wes Matthews, Jae Crowder, Jimmy Butler, Tony Smith, etc.
I'm with Sultan on this. If we could invent a criterion that fits the above I'm all for it. #24 should never be worn again. It's George Freakin' Thompson. No disrespect to those in the modern era but he is the second most important person in MU basketball history with Lee, Bo and DWade next in order.
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In all fairness he lead us to two ncaa appearances and an NIT finals appearance. I think he was great and on the ground floor of the modern era of MU basketball. But did he give us much more than someone like Jerel McNeal? Both all time scorers after leaving, both lead us to great success but no championships or final fours. Didn't exactly have a massively productive professional career where we'd retire him for that (Rivers) I just kind of think if we're going to retire numbers they should have gotten us a final four at least.
It's not like it's Wade.
Sorry my young friend. That's just not right. Thompson represented so very much more than mere statistics. He paved the way toward the future by being the first to believe in Al thereby making everything that came after that possible.
I'm open to Anonymous' suggestion. But let's at least announce something before we hand out possibly our most sacred jersey number.
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For all we know they may have asked George for permission. If he is okay with it, everyone else should be.
IMO just asking him can put him in an awkward position. If he says "no" it may come off to some as being kinda douchey.
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Brute Force was insulted when the first Mofo pulled this chit. Y'all really think he's down with it now, hey?
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College refs use one hand to notify the official scorer of the number of the person fouled.
NBA refs, because they are more advanced, are able to manage to use both hands without confusion.
To be fair, Higgins usually has his other hand on his hip catching his breath when signalling.
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Retire certain numbers that should never be worn again.
3 - Wade
15 - Lee
24 - Thompson
31 - Ellis
The rest are jerseys that can be honored at a much lower standard. That standard could include people like Jerel McNeal, Wes Matthews, Jae Crowder, Jimmy Butler, Tony Smith, etc.
I would remove Wade from this assuming he did not get his degree.
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In all fairness he lead us to two ncaa appearances and an NIT finals appearance. I think he was great and on the ground floor of the modern era of MU basketball. But did he give us much more than someone like Jerel McNeal? Both all time scorers after leaving, both lead us to great success but no championships or final fours. Didn't exactly have a massively productive professional career where we'd retire him for that (Rivers) I just kind of think if we're going to retire numbers they should have gotten us a final four at least.
It's not like it's Wade.
Wow. You have no idea what you just wrote, young man. No idea. Brute Force and Al made the national reputation of Marquette - the University, not the basketball team.
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http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2015/5/27/8663217/marquette-basketball-sacar-anim-haanif-cheatham-george-thompson-lazar-hayward
(http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2015/5/27/8663217/marquette-basketball-sacar-anim-haanif-cheatham-george-thompson-lazar-hayward)
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I have no problem with Cheatham wearing Thompson's #24. I'm too young to have watched him play so for me someone else wearing #24 brings Thompson's accomplishments back to the forefront.
I would go to the freshmen games to watch Thompson play. His sophomore year he could do 360 degree dunks in a game. Unfortunately, because of Lew Alcinder dunks were not allowed after his sophomore year. His number was retired and should remain so.
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I would remove Wade from this assuming he did not get his degree.
Good point.
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IMO just asking him can put him in an awkward position. If he says "no" it may come off to some as being kinda douchey.
If one were to ask Queen Elizabeth if one might try on the Royal Crown and she were to decline would she be a douche?
George Thompson is Marquette royalty.
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Generally, I'm against this move, but will wait and see what all comes of it. As Chick said, if George is ok with it, we should too.
I'm a little surprised, if George is ok with it that Wojo wouldn't have made a deal of the tradition of George in a public forum....seems counter to how he normally operates.
I think George(#24) and Wade (#3) are the only numbers (along with #77) that should be off limits. We can retire jerseys as an honor for everyone else, but the number can be reworn.
I love the idea, that if you are wearing a number of a "great" that you have a patch indicating that player. How cool would it be to have someone like Ellenson wear #31, have an Ellis patch on his jersey and let's say Henry leads us to back to back final fours or something the next player to wear #31 would have an Ellis and Ellenson patch.....they always know they have a lot to live up to.
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There was little doubt Lazar was given the number by Crean out of spite (Crean also orchestrated his ouster from the booth).
Tanned Tommy is an absolute disaster as a human being. In so many ways. F#ck that guy
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Lovell should fire Wojo for this gross incompetence.
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Perhaps these Drake lyrics can provide a clue:
24's on my Escalade
They call me Brute Force
My boy Haanif is the judge
Cuz he runs the f***cking court
My boy be on his way
Don't cheat him in Wisconsin
Give Florida respect
F*** You George Thompson!
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I'm pissed off at this. It's disrespectful, unnecessary, and diminishes the accomplishment, duly earned, of one of our greatest Warriors. There remains a plethora of other numbers to choose. That ass hole Crean started this bullchit and his sorry ass needs to be hung out to dry for it.
Al was a showman who genuinely cared.
Buzz is a character who is just an odd f#ck.
Tanned Tommy is a f#cking pretty boy.
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It's just a number.
+1
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Since it's not one of the poll options, I'd say it's George Thompson's call. If the university reached out to him and he's cool with it, then it's OK for another player to wear the number.
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I believe Ellenson is no Bo Ellis. I do not think the younger posters know how good Ellis was. He could score, he could play defense and he could rebound. He anchored the backside of the press. There was no way anyone was going to try to throw a long inbounds pass to try and beat the press with Ellis covering the back end. Ellis averaged 10 rebounds a game as a freshmen and that was with him playing alongside to Lucas who also averaged 10 rebounds a game. He led us to two final fours including the NCA title and would of been three final fours, if they did not meet the undefeated Indiana team in the second game of the tournament. I still believe he is the best MU player of all time. he could of scored a lot more, but did not need to with the other stars on the team. I suspect Ellenson will score more than Bo did as a freshmen, but will not be near the rebounder or the defender.
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I think George(#24) and Wade (#3) are the only numbers (along with #77) that should be off limits. We can retire jerseys as an honor for everyone else, but the number can be reworn.
Navy
Butch Lee was special. His number needs to be up there before Wade's.
'76 Olympics. Montreal. Butch Lee, snubbed by Coach Dean Smith and playing for Puerto Rico, almost defeats the US team singlehandedly. It was a Performance for the Ages. (Puerto Rico should have won but that is a different conversation...)
The National Championship Team was called the Butch and Bo Show. It was a marvel to behold.
Butch Lee is #3 in the Marquette Pantheon behind Al and Brute Force. End of discussion.
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What do they do at places like Duke and Kentucky, who have scores of players who are good enough to have their numbers retired (at least in comparison to most other schools)?
Maybe Wojo thinks that in the next couple of decades we are going to have so many great players, we might as well part with tradition now. ;)
At North Carolina, in order to have your number retired you must be National Player of the Year by at least one of the six recognized services. Eight numbers have been retired. The standard is high as well as clear and preempts debate. MU should have a similar standard, maybe first team All-American.
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Anon Eagle makes a good point when he says 25% of jersey numbers available at Marquette have been retired. That's ridiculous. Retiring so many makes it lose its value.
Here's an idea: Do what Michigan football does. If a player wears a jersey that is honored, they also wear a small patch with the name of the former player. Very cool from a tradition and marketing standpoint. The school also connects the current player with the honored one, and acts as a mentor.
The Legends Jersey idea came and went, thankfully, with Brady Hoke.
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I'll have 2 ask George what he thinks down at Goolsby's
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I wasn't around to see Thompson, but #2 will always be Maurice Acker, period. I bet no one asked him.
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GT is the like Godfather of the program, especially among former players. They better have cleared this with him.
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I never knew there was a restriction on what numbers were allowed. I punched some coordinates into the google machine and found this: Legal numbers are: 00, 0-5, 10-15, 20-25, 30-35, 40-45, 50-55. Team rosters may not include both 0, and 00. Members of the same team can not use the same number.
What is the point of that?
The officials need to signal the foul on a player by holding up fingers on one or both hands - once. So Gould on 6 is five up on one and one on the other. Can't do 77 etc.
Also we had zero and 00 on teams. I believe it is a closed fist for zero, two closed fists for 00
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Anon Eagle makes a good point when he says 25% of jersey numbers available at Marquette have been retired. That's ridiculous. Retiring so many makes it lose its value.
Here's an idea: Do what Michigan football does. If a player wears a jersey that is honored, they also wear a small patch with the name of the former player. Very cool from a tradition and marketing standpoint. The school also connects the current player with the honored one, and acts as a mentor.
1) if a number is already retired it should remain retired. That's what it means!
2) should we retire future numbers? Probably not. Just the jersey with name and use as suggested here what Michigan football does - that is a great idea.
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Navy
Butch Lee was special. His number needs to be up there before Wade's.
'76 Olympics. Montreal. Butch Lee, snubbed by Coach Dean Smith and playing for Puerto Rico, almost defeats the US team singlehandedly. It was a Performance for the Ages. (Puerto Rico should have won but that is a different conversation...)
The National Championship Team was called the Butch and Bo Show. It was a marvel to behold.
Butch Lee is #3 in the Marquette Pantheon behind Al and Brute Force. End of discussion.
It's certainly arguable....I just view it from the prism of who put MU on the map, or back on the map so to speak. George and Al made MU basketball what it is....Deane, Rick and O'Neil did their best to kill everything Al did, and Wade came in and redefined the program as well as continuing it's ambassadorship in the association that paved the way for the likes of JFB to take the crown from him now.
Wade and George represent the two critical eras in MU basketball. I'm all for honoring Ellis and Lee among others, but I think their import just below that of George and Wade given the overall circumstances.
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What do they do at places like Duke and Kentucky, who have scores of players who are good enough to have their numbers retired (at least in comparison to most other schools)?
I know at Duke one of the criteria ( a Big one) is the player must graduate to be considered.
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I'm all for honoring Ellis and Lee among others, but I think their import just below that of George and Wade given the overall circumstances.
Yea, I see your point. That National Championship wasn't such a big deal...
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In all fairness he lead us to two ncaa appearances and an NIT finals appearance. I think he was great and on the ground floor of the modern era of MU basketball. But did he give us much more than someone like Jerel McNeal? Both all time scorers after leaving, both lead us to great success but no championships or final fours. Didn't exactly have a massively productive professional career where we'd retire him for that (Rivers) I just kind of think if we're going to retire numbers they should have gotten us a final four at least.
It's not like it's Wade.
Dumbest and most ignorant post ever to the point that you have made every Marquette diploma worthless. Every post you make on every topic should be viewed through the lens of this stupidity and judged accordingly.
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Yea, I see your point. That National Championship wasn't such a big deal...
Wait, we won a national championship???
In all seriousness, I could be convinced to open it up or trade Wade for Ellis, etc. The question is where is the line? Ellis had Lee among a few other pieces to win the NC, Wade also was the lead on his team with a few other pieces. Wade also had Crean (major anchor) as a coach while Ellis had Al.
Wade relaunched the MU brand.....Ellis and Lee built on the foundation George and Al created.
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George set the scoring record in 3 seasons and no 3 pt shot. I wonder if this is a new staff oversight or George gave his permission. I hope this gets sorted out amicably. For me it's not history, I lived it, as George and I are the class of '69.
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Wait, we won a national championship???
In all seriousness, I could be convinced to open it up or trade Wade for Ellis, etc. The question is where is the line? Ellis had Lee among a few other pieces to win the NC, Wade also was the lead on his team with a few other pieces. Wade also had Crean (major anchor) as a coach while Ellis had Al.
Wade relaunched the MU brand.....Ellis and Lee built on the foundation George and Al created.
03Eng, keefe is right. Your relative youth is clouding your judgement here. You weren't even born when Butch played. Trust us on this. It's like saying that the recent Brewers division championship is like the '57 Braves. No, it's not. It's just that ESPN wasn't around to cover it.
And remember, we're simply discussing 'program and university impact'. I'd argue DWade is a much better player, possibly our best ever. But let's not get lost in the weeds.
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Dumbest and most ignorant post ever to the point that you have made every Marquette diploma worthless. Every post you make on every topic should be viewed through the lens of this stupidity and judged accordingly.
C'mon badger, the young man made a misstatement. Let's educate rather than ridicule. We're all Warriors (even those pesky Golden Eagle types.)
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03Eng, keefe is right. Your relative youth is clouding your judgement here. You weren't even born when Butch played. Trust us on this. It's like saying that the recent Brewers division championship is like the '57 Braves. No, it's not. It's just that ESPN wasn't around to cover it.
And remember, we're simply discussing 'program and university impact'. I'd argue DWade is a much better player, possibly our best ever. But let's not get lost in the weeds.
That's my point though, Wade's impact on the current generation is greater than Ellis's impact on then that generation. Look, in the 70s, MU basketball had 4 definite icons....George, Al, Ellis and Lee. Since 1995...it's Wade and then maybe the 3 amigo's(definitely wouldn't put them at that level but hey it's a message board). Anyone but Wade that is an icon in the modern era is only an icon because they went on to fantastic NBA careers (Butler, Matthews).
Let's put it another way, I have tremendous value in Lee and Ellis, but let's be honest....if Wade doesn't come around there isn't a rabid fan base to have this kind of debate or it is a bunch of old foggey's like yourself ( ;)) that would sit around and talk about the 70s.
Wade re-energized the entire program. Ellis's contribution is very critical but relative to the era they played in and the impact on the university.....Wade was more significant.
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C'mon badger, the young man made a misstatement. Let's educate rather than ridicule. We're all Warriors (even those pesky Golden Eagle types.)
Sorry about that. A crusty old sergeant major told me once that "@sschewings build character, now get into my office and get some character."
We shouldn't be too hard on Bags, but all of his MU professors need to be fired.
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That's my point though, Wade's impact on the current generation is greater than Ellis's impact on then that generation. Look, in the 70s, MU basketball had 4 definite icons....George, Al, Ellis and Lee. Since 1995...it's Wade and then maybe the 3 amigo's(definitely wouldn't put them at that level but hey it's a message board). Anyone but Wade that is an icon in the modern era is only an icon because they went on to fantastic NBA careers (Butler, Matthews).
Let's put it another way, I have tremendous value in Lee and Ellis, but let's be honest....if Wade doesn't come around there isn't a rabid fan base to have this kind of debate or it is a bunch of old foggey's like yourself ( ;)) that would sit around and talk about the 70s.
Wade re-energized the entire program. Ellis's contribution is very critical but relative to the era they played in and the impact on the university.....Wade was more significant.
There is truth in what you say. And both Butch and Bo had each other during what was an incredible 8-10 year run. But do understand that Mu was truly elite back then. One of the top 5-6 programs in the country, every year. Anyway, we're lucky they were all Warriors.
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Dumbest and most ignorant post ever to the point that you have made every Marquette diploma worthless. Every post you make on every topic should be viewed through the lens of this stupidity and judged accordingly.
If all you learned at MU was basketball history knowledge your MU diploma should probably be useless anyway. I don't need to argue with jack a$$es like yourself. If I did I wouldn't be a boxer I'd be a lawyer.
But my point with that post, despite how poorly it came across, was that there are loads of great players in MU ball history. Terry Rand for example literally put us on the map. Not just the modern era but literally there were no NCAA no NIT appearances before him. If it were up to me (when I wrote that post) at least a final four would be a requirement during a players time, or NPOY honor to get retired.
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Thompson, Lee, Ellis and Wade are only four players. Trying to parse it down further is an exercise in futility.
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Thompson, Lee, Ellis and Wade are only four players. Trying to parse it down further is an exercise in futility.
+24
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George set the scoring record in 3 seasons and no 3 pt shot. I wonder if this is a new staff oversight or George gave his permission. I hope this gets sorted out amicably. For me it's not history, I lived it, as George and I are the class of '69.
Jerel doesn't come close to fillin' George's jockstrap, ai na?
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In all fairness he lead us to two ncaa appearances and an NIT finals appearance. I think he was great and on the ground floor of the modern era of MU basketball. But did he give us much more than someone like Jerel McNeal? Both all time scorers after leaving, both lead us to great success but no championships or final fours. Didn't exactly have a massively productive professional career where we'd retire him for that (Rivers) I just kind of think if we're going to retire numbers they should have gotten us a final four at least.
It's not like it's Wade.
LOL, cmon.
Marquette was one of 24 teams invited to the tournament his only year making it. Almost all of whom were conference winners with very little room for at large bids. To judge his value based on the number of tournaments he made shows a complete lack of historical perspective.
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If all you learned at MU was basketball history knowledge your MU diploma should probably be useless anyway. I don't need to argue with jack a$$es like yourself. If I did I wouldn't be a boxer I'd be a lawyer.
But my point with that post, despite how poorly it came across, was that there are loads of great players in MU ball history. Terry Rand for example literally put us on the map. Not just the modern era but literally there were no NCAA no NIT appearances before him. If it were up to me (when I wrote that post) at least a final four would be a requirement during a players time, or NPOY honor to get retired.
It's application of historical knowledge with understanding of context and how they fit with trends and the college hoops landscape both in the GT's and the present. It's not that you had an incorrect answer (we all do that), its the utter lack of application of higher-level thinking.
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LOL, cmon.
Marquette was one of 24 teams invited to the tournament his only year making it. Almost all of whom were conference winners with very little room for at large bids. To judge his value based on the number of tournaments he made shows a complete lack of historical perspective.
It's all pretty much summed up here.
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/030410aaa.html
Three years of eligibility and no three-point line and still leads MU in career PPG.
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LOL, cmon.
Marquette was one of 24 teams invited to the tournament his only year making it. Almost all of whom were conference winners with very little room for at large bids. To judge his value based on the number of tournaments he made shows a complete lack of historical perspective.
But putting thoughts in perspective distorts his narrative
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Don't care. Retiring numbers is a dumb practice, in my opinion. The only number that should never be worn again is #42 in baseball. Other than that, don't care.
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Don't care. Retiring numbers is a dumb practice, in my opinion. The only number that should never be worn again is #42 in baseball. Other than that, don't care.
Oh.
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It's application of historical knowledge with understanding of context and how they fit with trends and the college hoops landscape both in the GT's and the present. It's not that you had an incorrect answer (we all do that), its the utter lack of application of higher-level thinking.
So then you're just an a$$ then? I'm sorry I was working and while waiting for a meeting stumbled upon a thread I gave my initial reaction to. Maybe I'll be like you and over analyze every post and start assuming that everyone spends tons of time thinking through their posts thoroughly and applying all the higher thought we learned at MU. I'll tell you what maybe I can be like you, start doing that and still end up sounding like a jack a$$ anyways.
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Oh.
Lol. Just how I feel. I was at work posting and wanted to be quick so it probably came off more blunt than I intended. I just think this is a repetitive conversation that's a non issue, similar to the Warriors vs. Golden Eagles debate.
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Have any of the Freshmen been spotted in a boot yet?
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Why is everyone so worked up about Cheatham wearing Thompson's number, but not about Anim wearing Dawson's?
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Jerel doesn't come close to fillin' George's jockstrap, ai na?
Or Chones', or Larry McNeill's, or Lucky Lloyd's, or The Dream's...
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There is truth in what you say. And both Butch and Bo had each other during what was an incredible 8-10 year run. But do understand that Mu was truly elite back then. One of the top 5-6 programs in the country, every year. Anyway, we're lucky they were all Warriors.
I have to respectfully disagree with the Colonel and the Glows on this issue. I am usually inclined to defer to tradition but as others have mentioned I love the new tradition that includes the new players learning the history and tradition of their number. How about we have an hour long special, pre-midnight madness special in which players get to meet their former jersey wearers... cut right to the dunk contest. Another possibility is that a player has to earn his jersey(I don't know how we will determine that) maybe Senior year Haniff gets #24. No disrespect intended to all those who have gone before but I hope we are in for era that if we don't figure out something we will run out of numbers. Ring Out Ahoya!
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I have to respectfully disagree with the Colonel and the Glows on this issue. I am usually inclined to defer to tradition but as others have mentioned I love the new tradition that includes the new players learning the history and tradition of their number. How about we have an hour long special, pre-midnight madness special in which players get to meet their former jersey wearers... cut right to the dunk contest. Another possibility is that a player has to earn his jersey(I don't know how we will determine that) maybe Senior year Haniff gets #24. No disrespect intended to all those who have gone before but I hope we are in for era that if we don't figure out something we will run out of numbers. Ring Out Ahoya!
I love those traditions as well and have said that I could support a retired jersey policy. We can debate whether a higher level retired number category should also exist. If so, GT is candidate#1.
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Other schools and their retired numbers:
http://www.shupirates.com/trads/seha-retired-numbers.html
http://www.bradleybraves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205008349
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCLA_Bruins_men's_basketball_retired_numbers
http://www.hokiesports.com/mbasketball/players/
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I can't bring myself to get too upset about Cheatham wearing No. 24.
But I am furious that Vander's number is gonna be worn by Anim!!!
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I can't bring myself to get too upset about Cheatham wearing No. 24.
But I am furious that Vander's number is gonna be worn by Anim!!!
Not the one Vander was actually successful with so its ok
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When is a retired jersey "not" retired? What does George think about this?
I'm surprised nobody has discussed George's work as an MU radio announcer alongside Steve True. I didn't appreciate their work at first, thought their broadcast was a bit "bumpy", but as they worked together for awhile, they got to be a great pair, and GT always had a few of his own Al-like descriptions. My favorite was during the @Tulane game in Wade's Jr year..Dwyane was just owning the Green Wave in every facet, he jukes a defender and unveils an awesome move through traffic to convert, and there's an awe-struck pause followed by George slapping a vintage '70s "ELECTROGLIDE!!" label on the play. :o
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George Thompson is easily ONE OF the best players in MU history, but I'm surprised at how many people view him as THE best. We have one guy who was NPOY, one guy who was Final Four MOP, and one guy who almost single-handedly pulled off the biggest upset in Olympic basketball history. And they're all the same guy.
George was huge. So were Bo, DWade, Chones and Meminger. But they're all fighting for the second spot behind Butch.
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George Thompson is easily ONE OF the best players in MU history, but I'm surprised at how many people view him as THE best. We have one guy who was NPOY, one guy who was Final Four MOP, and one guy who almost single-handedly pulled off the biggest upset in Olympic basketball history. And they're all the same guy.
George was huge. So were Bo, DWade, Chones and Meminger. But they're all fighting for the second spot behind Butch.
Butch? Butch Lee? Wasn't he the guy banging Gail Pudvan?
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Gail Pudvan, so hot! Want to touch the heine, ai na?
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Jerel doesn't come close to fillin' George's jockstrap, ai na?
Not close is correct. Jerel was a really good player would had tons of PT given him from day1 and put up big numbers on a team that won one tournament game in 4 years. He's not in Geoge's class as a player. Or Meminger's, Bo's, Tatum's, Mo's, Butch's, etc.
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I'd keep 77 retired, as well.
55 is the highest number acceptable in CBB. No 6-9 either
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As long as George is OK....I think it's good. But I hope Wojo talked to him....might be a neat positive if he did
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Back to basketball, I saw every player whose jersey is in the rafters play except for Don Kojis. That said, there are only five Marquette players whose contributions were so great that the "owner" decides who wears the jersey. The five players are:
George Thompson
Maurice Lucas
Bo Ellis
Butch Lee
Dwyane Wade
The two on the outside who also may be worthy are Dean Meminger and Glenn Rivers. The contribution all of these people made to our program and our prominence as a national power should be recognized forever. We also should continue to retire 77 for Al (even though it is not a usable number, for now).
These are the best of the best. No one else (except maybe Jim Chones) came close.
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1) if a number is already retired it should remain retired. That's what it means!
2) should we retire future numbers? Probably not. Just the jersey with name and use as suggested here what Michigan football does - that is a great idea.
Michigan dropped the Legends jerseys soon after Brady Hoke was fired.
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That dog don't hunt
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/29207369.html?ipad=y
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http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/29207369.html?ipad=y
11, huh? When was the list time MU had an 11?
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11, huh? When was the list time MU had an 11?
Dr. Blackheart, 1968
http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/jersey_numbers#section11
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Don't have a dog in the fight either way as to whether numbers or jerseys or whatever should be retired and who is deserving of having something retired. But I guess I don't understand why someone would feel entitled to owning a number and be offended if a player wanted to wear that number. If it were me, I would look at it as a sign of respect if someone wanted to wear my number.
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First, the source of this issue is the fact that disallowing jersey numbers is dumb and restricts the pool of numbers. That said, retired is retired unless we're taking a wholesale different approach to the numbers. To that end, I hope that Wojo personally discussed with each of the individuals (or estates?) of his plans and that he intends to honor them as Michigan FB has recently.
Even if that is what has happened I would still be bummed to see another #3 in blue and gold.
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http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/29207369.html?ipad=y
Pat, kinda says it all, ai na?
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I guess my biggest problem is that no revision of the current program has been announced publicly. I think everyone has a stake in this (mostly the retired players) and we should at least be informed about the change in policy. This seems way horse before the cart to me.
Maybe this is what you get when our entire administration (Pres., AD, coach) has been around a year. IDK, maybe they should rename McCormick Hall too. Nobody remembers who he is anyway.
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Apparently diener reached out to GT in the past week or two about the #24.
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Deane, Rick and O'Neil did their best to kill everything Al did...
This is an astonishing statement. Rick and Deane may not have been great coaches at Marquette. Far from perfect, for sure. But Kevin O'Neill? Are you kidding? I'd love to hear how you think he did his best to kill the program. Like I said, astonishing.
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LOL, cmon.
Marquette was one of 24 teams invited to the tournament his only year making it. Almost all of whom were conference winners with very little room for at large bids. To judge his value based on the number of tournaments he made shows a complete lack of historical perspective.
To be fair, in that era it was probably easier for Marquette as an independent to make the tournament. Only conference champions made the tournament, so a strong 2nd place conference team was relegated to the NIT. Meanwhile, multiple independents could make the tournament.
Also, the number of tournament teams isn't relevant without considering the number of D1 teams. Back then there were only about 150 D1 teams with 24 making the tournament. D1 has 347 teams today, so on a percentage basis, its pretty close.
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Clarification: Diener did reach out to Thompson about using No. 24. https://t.co/0n9HXndxLl
So...nothing to see here.
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This is an astonishing statement. Rick and Deane may not have been great coaches at Marquette. Far from perfect, for sure. But Kevin O'Neill? Are you kidding? I'd love to hear how you think he did his best to kill the program. Like I said, astonishing.
O'neill wasn't trying to kill the program, but he hated MU's tradition and thought fans were constantly living in the past. He could care less about traditional rivals with Notre Dame or Wisconsin, and couldn't stand comparisons to Al.
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I am going by memory, but Al was hired after MU won only five games. I believe Al's first year he won 8 games and his second year he went 14-12. His third year, which was Thompson's sopomore year he made the NIT finals. The NIT back then was a far superior tournament to what it is now. Thompson's junior year MU made the NCAA tournament and his senior year team with Dean Meminger lost in overtime to Purdue for a chance to go to the final four ( I was at that game). That is quite a leap from being one of the worst teams in basketball to blowing the opportunity to pay in the final four. Thompson was not surrounded by other pro players. He had Meminger his senior year and maybe Bob Lackey had a cup of tea in the ABA. Bo Ellis was surrounded by other pro players, which somewhat hid how good he was. The NCAA tournament can be a crap shoot, but one should remember the 1978 team returned everyone, but Bill Neary, Bo Ellis and Al McGuire. Whitehead getting thrown out of the game was a fluke, but Whitehead, Toone, Byrd, Boylan , Lee, Rosenberger, Ulice Payne simply were not as good without Bo Ellis.
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http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/29207369.html?ipad=y
I don't have a take on the jersey retirement issue, but wanted to point out that people should be very cognizant about what is said on this board - some folks remark that they can say whatever they please (wild speculation, pure falsehoods, obscene, derogatory filth, and sometimes even private, personal, and maybe even harmful facts) regarding MU basketball simply because this is a forum site about MU basketball. IN other words, the site is free, 'private', unsanctioned, and made up of a bunch of anonymous avatars. However, it is quite clear that there are people on here that have "access to" the more traditional media outlets and, in general, likely use this site for source information. I'm not saying that's a negative on them, it makes perfect sense, but just be aware of it before you post.
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Too lazy to read all 5 pages of this thread but think it is joke giving out #24. I cannot understand that MU athletics still does stupid things in regards to how they represent themselves. George's number should never be worn again by an MU basketball player. I would add Wade, Lee and Ellis to that list. Those four deserve the honor of truly having their numbers retired.
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So...nothing to see here.
And that's why George isn't returnin' phone messages, hey?
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Too lazy to read all 5 pages of this thread but think it is joke giving out #24. I cannot understand that MU athletics still does stupid things in regards to how they represent themselves. George's number should never be worn again by an MU basketball player. I would add Wade, Lee and Ellis to that list. Those four deserve the honor of truly having their numbers retired.
That's the take several of us have. And a comment from the Athletic Dept. about retired numbers vs. retired jerseys might be a good idea too.
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I am going by memory, but Al was hired after MU won only five games. I believe Al's first year he won 8 games and his second year he went 14-12. His third year, which was Thompson's sopomore year he made the NIT finals. The NIT back then was a far superior tournament to what it is now. Thompson's junior year MU made the NCAA tournament and his senior year team with Dean Meminger lost in overtime to Purdue for a chance to go to the final four ( I was at that game). That is quite a leap from being one of the worst teams in basketball to blowing the opportunity to pay in the final four. Thompson was not surrounded by other pro players. He had Meminger his senior year and maybe Bob Lackey had a cup of tea in the ABA. Bo Ellis was surrounded by other pro players, which somewhat hid how good he was. The NCAA tournament can be a crap shoot, but one should remember the 1978 team returned everyone, but Bill Neary, Bo Ellis and Al McGuire. Whitehead getting thrown out of the game was a fluke, but Whitehead, Toone, Byrd, Boylan , Lee, Rosenberger, Ulice Payne simply were not as good without Bo Ellis.
Black Swan never played with Brute Force.
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O'neill wasn't trying to kill the program, but he hated MU's tradition and thought fans were constantly living in the past. He could care less about traditional rivals with Notre Dame or Wisconsin, and couldn't stand comparisons to Al.
O'Neill rescued Marquette basketball. Period.
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To be fair, in that era it was probably easier for Marquette as an independent to make the tournament. Only conference champions made the tournament, so a strong 2nd place conference team was relegated to the NIT. Meanwhile, multiple independents could make the tournament.
Also, the number of tournament teams isn't relevant without considering the number of D1 teams. Back then there were only about 150 D1 teams with 24 making the tournament. D1 has 347 teams today, so on a percentage basis, its pretty close.
Using total number of teams in the NCAA doesn't make sense unless you want to clump Marquette basketball in with all the low major teams. You simply are lacking historical perspective to compare George Thompson with Jerel McNeal.
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That's the take several of us have. And a comment from the Athletic Dept. about retired numbers vs. retired jerseys might be a good idea too.
Athletic Dept., Pathetic Dept.----the fact remains Warrior greats had their NUMBER retired (as in never to be used again). None of this would be goin' down if that worm, Crean, hadn't tried to stick his gurkee out.
George isn't on board with this or he'd make a politically correct statement such as, "I'm honored that my number will once again be worn by this wonderful student athlete."
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Athletic Dept., Pathetic Dept.----the fact remains Warrior greats had their NUMBER retired (as in never to be used again). None of this would be goin' down if that worm, Crean, hadn't tried to stick his gurkee out.
George isn't on board with this or he'd make a politically correct statement such as, "I'm honored that my number will once again be worn by this wonderful student athlete."
You can't blame Crean for this.
You can blame Marquette for retiring numbers that probably didn't live up to the standards they should have. I mean, if you are retiring Maurice Lucas number, you probably should retire Jae Crowder's.
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O'neill wasn't trying to kill the program, but he hated MU's tradition and thought fans were constantly living in the past. He could care less about traditional rivals with Notre Dame or Wisconsin, and couldn't stand comparisons to Al.
Completely untrue. KO wanted to beat UW / ND as much as anyone. But he also realized that MU's world was chnaging and conference play was important. He was trying in his own, blunt way to educate fans. I've talked with enough of his players who said he wanted to win those traditional rival games as much or more than anyone.
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When Jae hangs some doofus out McCormick's 8th floor windows by his ankles and the kid lives to talk 'bout it, then retire Crowder's number, hey?
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And to everyone who thinks this just a bunch of old guys on a message board getting worked up, this is now the lead on JSOnline. Marquette hoops gets that treatment four ways:
1) Final Four
2) New Coach
3) Player Arrested
4) Unretiring GT's #
This is a big deal
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Black Swan never played with Brute Force.
I was not sure. I just was trying to think what other pro players Thompson might of teamed with. So it looks like it was only Meninger for one year. This makes his accomplishments even greater, but it also shows why he averaged 20 points a game.
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When Jae hangs some doofus out McCormick's 8th floor windows by his ankles and the kid lives to talk 'bout it, then retire Crowder's number, hey?
In 2010 you said you weren't sure if that was an urban legend or not did you get confirmation?
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21888.30;imode
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I was not sure. I just was trying to think what other pro players Thompson might of teamed with. So it looks like it was only Meninger for one year. This makes his accomplishments even greater, but it also shows why he averaged 20 points a game.
Joe Thomas played two seasons with George. He also had a short stint in the NBA (39 games)
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Marquette has retired 11 jerseys. Those in recognition of former players are No. 3 (Dwyane Wade), 14 (Dean Meminger), 15 (Butch Lee), 20 (Maurice Lucas), 24 (Thompson), 31 (Bo Ellis and Glenn 'Doc' Rivers), 43 (Earl Tatum) and 44 (Don Kojis).
The university also retired No. 11 in honor of the Apollo 11 crew, No. 38 in honor of the 38 years Robert Weingart served as athletic trainer and No. 77 in recognition of former head coach Al McGuire, who led the school to its 1977 national championship victory.
If those numbers were taken out of use, Marquette would be down nine of a possible 36 numbers that can be used on uniforms.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/marquette-puts-george-thompsons-retired-no-24-back-in-circulation-again-b99508238z1-305269861.html
I don't follow his math, shouldn't that read 'down to 25 out of a possible 36'?
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Why is everyone so worked up about Cheatham wearing Thompson's number, but not about Anim wearing Dawson's?
Ah ha! The last of the Ners disciples finally reveals himself!!!
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Marquette has retired 11 jerseys. Those in recognition of former players are No. 3 (Dwyane Wade), 14 (Dean Meminger), 15 (Butch Lee), 20 (Maurice Lucas), 24 (Thompson), 31 (Bo Ellis and Glenn 'Doc' Rivers), 43 (Earl Tatum) and 44 (Don Kojis).
The university also retired No. 11 in honor of the Apollo 11 crew, No. 38 in honor of the 38 years Robert Weingart served as athletic trainer and No. 77 in recognition of former head coach Al McGuire, who led the school to its 1977 national championship victory.
If those numbers were taken out of use, Marquette would be down nine of a possible 36 numbers that can be used on uniforms.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/marquette-puts-george-thompsons-retired-no-24-back-in-circulation-again-b99508238z1-305269861.html
I don't follow his math, shouldn't that read 'down to 25 out of a possible 36'?
38 and 77 are numbers that can't be worn regardless of whether they've been retired.
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I'm glad somebody finally mentioned Kojis. Not only was he a great basketball player for MU IIRC graduating as MU's all time leading rebounder, he played for the 1961-62 Packers.
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Marquette has retired 11 jerseys. Those in recognition of former players are No. 3 (Dwyane Wade), 14 (Dean Meminger), 15 (Butch Lee), 20 (Maurice Lucas), 24 (Thompson), 31 (Bo Ellis and Glenn 'Doc' Rivers), 43 (Earl Tatum) and 44 (Don Kojis).
The university also retired No. 11 in honor of the Apollo 11 crew, No. 38 in honor of the 38 years Robert Weingart served as athletic trainer and No. 77 in recognition of former head coach Al McGuire, who led the school to its 1977 national championship victory.
If those numbers were taken out of use, Marquette would be down nine of a possible 36 numbers that can be used on uniforms.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/marquette-puts-george-thompsons-retired-no-24-back-in-circulation-again-b99508238z1-305269861.html
I don't follow his math, shouldn't that read 'down to 25 out of a possible 36'?
It says "down nine of a possible 36" (i.e., 27) -- not "down to nine out of a possible 36."
Poor writing, not poor math.
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I'm glad somebody finally mentioned Kojis. Not only was he a great basketball player for MU IIRC graduating as MU's all time leading rebounder, he played for the 1961-62 Packers.
I had to look this up...the 61-62 expansion Chicago Packers of the NBA. You had me going there.
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In 2010 you said you weren't sure if that was an urban legend or not did you get confirmation?
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21888.30;imode
Scottish Fighter,
Not for sure on the accuracy of the story. Maybe one of the old farts here can either confirm or deny. My point was Jae doesn't even belong in the same paragraph with Luke, let alone in a debate regardin' retirin' his number, hey?
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Scottish Fighter,
Not for sure on the accuracy of the story. Maybe one of the old farts here can either confirm or deny. My point was Jae doesn't even belong in the same paragraph with Luke, let alone in a debate regardin' retirin' his number, hey?
You are correct. Lucas was not the best example.
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Scottish Fighter,
Not for sure on the accuracy of the story. Maybe one of the old farts here can either confirm or deny. My point was Jae doesn't even belong in the same paragraph with Luke, let alone in a debate regardin' retirin' his number, hey?
"Scottish fighter" haha I like that one.
I was just curious if the story had been confirmed. On google only the 2010 post and up.
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My boss (age 41) who doesn't pay much attention to MU just called me and said:
"You're un-retiring George Thompson's number?!?! What are you guys doing over there?!?!"
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O'Neill rescued Marquette basketball. Period.
Absolutely.
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I heard that George Thompson is going to play under the alias Haanif Cheatham for Marquette next year.
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I heard that George Thompson is going to play under the alias Haanif Cheatham for Marquette next year.
Did Wojo adopt him?
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Retire certain numbers that should never be worn again.
3 - Wade
15 - Lee
24 - Thompson
31 - Ellis
The rest are jerseys that can be honored at a much lower standard. That standard could include people like Jerel McNeal, Wes Matthews, Jae Crowder, Jimmy Butler, Tony Smith, etc.
Nope--Your list of 4 must be expanded to include: Kojis, Lucas and Meminger.
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O'Neill rescued Marquette basketball. Period.
Yes he did, along with McIlvane, Logterman, and Key.
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Yes he did, along with McIlvane, Logterman, and Key.
They would not have come if Dukiet had stayed.
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It says "down nine of a possible 36" (i.e., 27) -- not "down to nine out of a possible 36."
Poor writing, not poor math.
Thanks, I read it twice before posting and still mistook the context
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They would not have come if Dukiet had stayed.
Of course Dukiet was given his walking papers.
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Of course Dukiet was given his walking papers.
Obviously, but KO was,well, the key to Key, et al......
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Back to the original post... Haanif will wear #25 next season- https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/604031669008515072
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Back to the original post... Haanif will wear #25 next season- https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/604031669008515072
Our brief local nightmare is over.
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Our brief local nightmare is over.
Only if they terminated Wojo.....
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Our brief local nightmare is over.
Mark your calendars boys and girls. It should be some time in 2024 when Marquette has another "internal miscommunication" and somebody assigns No. 24 to an incoming freshman.
This really shouldn't be that hard. I'd think somebody in the department could make a list or something.
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Go ahead and throw this ridiculousness into the meme tournament.
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Move along. Nothing to see here.
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Back to the original post... Haanif will wear #25 next season- https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/604031669008515072
Someone fooked up, but handled in a most professional manner by our coach, ai na?
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What a relief this is over.
Now let's hope the AD never tries to hire a head coach named Al....
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Perhaps these Drake lyrics can provide a clue:
24's on my Escalade
They call me Brute Force
My boy Haanif is the judge
Cuz he runs the f***cking court
My boy be on his way
Don't cheat him in Wisconsin
Give Florida respect
F*** You George Thompson!
My source now tells me George won the rap battle vs Drake:
You Clearly Canadian while I'm Original New York
Seltzer bubble up every time I go to work
My moves are so sweet, just call me cream soda
Homer tell these fools, I'm more Brute Force than Yoda
Haanif wear 24? Nah, that I gotta nix
Now I'm seeing ghosts again like it's 2006
'Cept Wojo ain't tan and he don't know karate
And what's this about Diener? He never tried to call me
Now tell Haanif his choice
If he wants to stay alive
When I say it, heed my voice
Wear number 25 (drops the mic...)
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My source now tells me George won the rap battle vs Drake:
You Clearly Canadian while I'm Original New York
Seltzer bubble up every time I go to work
My moves are so sweet, just call me cream soda
Homer tell these fools, I'm more Brute Force than Yoda
Haanif wear 24? Nah, that I gotta nix
Now I'm seeing ghosts again like it's 2006
'Cept Wojo ain't tan and he don't know karate
And what's this about Diener? He never tried to call me
Now tell Haanif his choice
If he wants to stay alive
When I say it, heed my voice
Wear number 25 (drops the mic...)
This did not go unappreciated.
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There are 36 legal numbers in college basketball. MU has retired 9 legal numbers leaving 27. There are 13 players on a team. MU has only publically unretired one of these numbers, and that has happened not once but twice.
The honored person who graced that number was a pioneer, overcoming odds, becoming a legend. A media member. A great corporate citizen. A grateful and giving alumni. A community and university leader.
There are 27 numbers to choose from, but only one George Thompson. I think MU has forgotten it is about the people all too often lately. Glad Wojo stepped up and corrected this misstep. That takes leadership.
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This did not go unappreciated.
Thank You
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My source now tells me George won the rap battle vs Drake:
You Clearly Canadian while I'm Original New York
Seltzer bubble up every time I go to work
My moves are so sweet, just call me cream soda
Homer tell these fools, I'm more Brute Force than Yoda
Haanif wear 24? Nah, that I gotta nix
Now I'm seeing ghosts again like it's 2006
'Cept Wojo ain't tan and he don't know karate
And what's this about Diener? He never tried to call me
Now tell Haanif his choice
If he wants to stay alive
When I say it, heed my voice
Wear number 25 (drops the mic...)
"Work" and "York" don't rhyme where I come from, ai'na?
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My source now tells me George won the rap battle vs Drake:
You Clearly Canadian while I'm Original New York
Seltzer bubble up every time I go to work
My moves are so sweet, just call me cream soda
Homer tell these fools, I'm more Brute Force than Yoda
Haanif wear 24? Nah, that I gotta nix
Now I'm seeing ghosts again like it's 2006
'Cept Wojo ain't tan and he don't know karate
And what's this about Diener? He never tried to call me
Now tell Haanif his choice
If he wants to stay alive
When I say it, heed my voice
Wear number 25 (drops the mic...)
F#cking hilarious!
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Back to the original post... Haanif will wear #25 next season- https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/604031669008515072
But did the staff talk to Marquette great Steve Taylor Jr. about using his former number?
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Gail Pudvan, so hot! Want to touch the heine, ai na?
Way before my time, but has Gail made the cut for the meme tournament yet? I swear that name comes up about a dozen times a year and half this place loses their minds.
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But did the staff talk to Marquette great Steve Taylor Jr. about using his former number?
Did anyone talk to DWade? It was his number freshmen year.
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My source now tells me George won the rap battle vs Drake:
You Clearly Canadian while I'm Original New York
Seltzer bubble up every time I go to work
My moves are so sweet, just call me cream soda
Homer tell these fools, I'm more Brute Force than Yoda
Haanif wear 24? Nah, that I gotta nix
Now I'm seeing ghosts again like it's 2006
'Cept Wojo ain't tan and he don't know karate
And what's this about Diener? He never tried to call me
Now tell Haanif his choice
If he wants to stay alive
When I say it, heed my voice
Wear number 25 (drops the mic...)
Lazar? Is that you?
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Way before my time, but has Gail made the cut for the meme tournament yet? I swear that name comes up about a dozen times a year and half this place loses their minds.
Think of Farrah Fawcett with knockers, hey?
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"Work" and "York" don't rhyme where I come from, ai'na?
They do where George comes from, ai'na?
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We all agree too many numbers have been retired, and that the criteria to retire jerseys is too arbitrary. The solution is simple, if an "honored" jersey is used, put a patch on it with the former player's name. Right now, nobody outside of MU fans know whose jerseys are honored. But if you go with that system, and a Marquette player is shooting a free throw on national TV/NCAA Tournament, you'll have thousands of people going "Oh yeah, George Thompson/Doc Rivers/Earl Tatum played for Marquette." It also connects the past and the future and avoids situations like these in the future.
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We all agree too many numbers have been retired, and that the criteria to retire jerseys is too arbitrary. The solution is simple, if an "honored" jersey is used, put a patch on it with the former player's name. Right now, nobody outside of MU fans know whose jerseys are honored. But if you go with that system, and a Marquette player is shooting a free throw on national TV/NCAA Tournament, you'll have thousands of people going "Oh yeah, George Thompson/Doc Rivers/Earl Tatum played for Marquette." It also connects the past and the future and avoids situations like these in the future.
But really, no one outside of Marquette and old, hard core fans even know who George Thompson and Earl Tatum are.
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Maybe too many numbers have been retired and maybe we should go toward honoring but the simple matter is nearly every sports team in America retires numbers. When assigning numbers to new players, it probably should strike someone to say, I wonder if that number has been retired.
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Maybe too many numbers have been retired and maybe we should go toward honoring but the simple matter is nearly every sports team in America retires numbers. When assigning numbers to new players, it probably should strike someone to say, I wonder if that number has been retired.
True, but many of the teams that retire numbers are FAR more selective than MU has been. For example, the Packers have won 13(?) NFL Championships, but have retired only 5 numbers to date. Don't know exactly what criteria they apply, but it's a lot easier to restrict future use if the decision makers exercise some restraint.
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True, but many of the teams that retire numbers are FAR more selective than MU has been. For example, the Packers have won 13(?) NFL Championships, but have retired only 5 numbers to date. Don't know exactly what criteria they apply, but it's a lot easier to restrict future use if the decision makers exercise some restraint.
NFL teams have to be very careful about retiring too many numbers, as they have 55 or so active players on the roster.
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We all agree too many numbers have been retired, and that the criteria to retire jerseys is too arbitrary. The solution is simple, if an "honored" jersey is used, put a patch on it with the former player's name. Right now, nobody outside of MU fans know whose jerseys are honored. But if you go with that system, and a Marquette player is shooting a free throw on national TV/NCAA Tournament, you'll have thousands of people going "Oh yeah, George Thompson/Doc Rivers/Earl Tatum played for Marquette." It also connects the past and the future and avoids situations like these in the future.
What's done is done. For those who have been retired, they should continue to honor them and not allow the jerseys to be worn (unless, of course, the player comes to them and says it's OK -- which won't happen). I do agree they need some clear criteria going forward. They've got 27 numbers to work with. They need a criteria that will be rare enough that it's unlikely to lead to too many more. Perhaps first team AA, but even that could lead to problems given enough time. I think that UNC's "player of the year" criteria is good, but perhaps a little too stringent for Marquette.
And I'm honestly not sure they could use patches like you suggested. I wonder if there are rules that require all uniforms to be...well...uniform. I'm not sure if players can have different patches on their uniforms.
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True, but many of the teams that retire numbers are FAR more selective than MU has been. For example, the Packers have won 13(?) NFL Championships, but have retired only 5 numbers to date. Don't know exactly what criteria they apply, but it's a lot easier to restrict future use if the decision makers exercise some restraint.
It doesn't matter. Let's say we only retired Bo Ellis and of course Dwyane Wade, you still would expect an equipment manager to cross reference that retired list. It should not be this hard. One way to prevent getting shot, is to not shoot yourself. Marquette seems to inflict more damage upon themselves than any other program I follow.
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Off topic a bit but if little Wade were to come here would we allow him to wear 3?
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It doesn't matter. Let's say we only retired Bo Ellis and of course Dwyane Wade, you still would expect an equipment manager to cross reference that retired list. It should not be this hard. One way to prevent getting shot, is to not shoot yourself. Marquette seems to inflict more damage upon themselves than any other program I follow.
This. Every frickin' guy who posts on Scoop knew this could be a problem the minute the news was released that Hanif was wearing #24 but nobody working at Marquette did? Incredible.
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This. Every frickin' guy who posts on Scoop knew this could be a problem the minute the news was released that Hanif was wearing #24 but nobody working at Marquette did? Incredible.
Geez, pick your battles, man.
It was a mistake that, while high-profile, was easily corrected, and it's extremely unlikely it will ever be repeated.
I don't know why Marquette went to all the effort to hire Wojo when apparently, there are dozens of people on this board who could run the basketball program so much better.
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Can someone please tell me what "Retiring a Jersey" means? You retire a number, it is NEVER worn again. What the hell is retiring a jersey? "Thompson's jersey is retired."...well no kidding, he's not playing there any more! Bart Miller's jersey is retired, too, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe it means just a select few get their likeness on a banner hanging at the BC. But then don't put their number on the banner. In fact, don't hang any banners of players at all unless you RETIRE THEIR NUMBER. Retire their jersey...just sounds so stupid!
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It was a mistake that, while high-profile, was easily corrected, and it's extremely unlikely it will ever be repeated.
Gotta admit that is what I thought when it happened in 2006.
But, I agree...it's honestly not that big of a deal.
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So much butt hurt over this, within my lifetime, someone will wear #24, unless they officially retire that number.
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It doesn't matter. Let's say we only retired Bo Ellis and of course Dwyane Wade, you still would expect an equipment manager to cross reference that retired list. It should not be this hard. One way to prevent getting shot, is to not shoot yourself. Marquette seems to inflict more damage upon themselves than any other program I follow.
I rather doubt Nike ships Marquette a box with jerseys numbered 1-55 so that the equipment manager is simply handing them out and yelling, "Next!"
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True, but many of the teams that retire numbers are FAR more selective than MU has been. For example, the Packers have won 13(?) NFL Championships, but have retired only 5 numbers to date. Don't know exactly what criteria they apply, but it's a lot easier to restrict future use if the decision makers exercise some restraint.
And have 23 NFL HOFers to go with those 13 championships. The 6th number gets retired next season with Favre meaning that exactly 25% achieved the higher honor (when Favre too gets inducted). I know that the Packers are possibly the most conservative organization in professional sports as the Yankees have retired 20, the Celtics 21, and the Bears 14 (representing more than 50% of their HOFers.)
I'm all for a two tier approach going forward.
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Maybe too many numbers have been retired and maybe we should go toward honoring but the simple matter is nearly every sports team in America retires numbers. When assigning numbers to new players, it probably should strike someone to say, I wonder if that number has been retired.
THIS!!!!!
It is not that difficult, but for some at MU it seems to be.
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And have 23 NFL HOFers to go with those 13 championships. The 6th number gets retired next season with Favre meaning that exactly 25% achieved the higher honor (when Favre too gets inducted). I know that the Packers are possibly the most conservative organization in professional sports as the Yankees have retired 20, the Celtics 21, and the Bears 14 (representing more than 50% of their HOFers.)
I'm all for a two tier approach going forward.
#5 has been unofficially retired by the Packers as well since Hornung retired in 1967.
Forrest Gregg actually brought it out of "retirement" to great controversy when he acquired Vince Ferragamo. It hasn't been used since.
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I had to look this up...the 61-62 expansion Chicago Packers of the NBA. You had me going there.
There's another team calling themselves the Packers other than the Chicago Packers?
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#5 has been unofficially retired by the Packers as well since Hornung retired in 1967.
Forrest Gregg actually brought it out of "retirement" to great controversy when he acquired Vince Ferragamo. It hasn't been used since.
It may not be used anymore but it is certainly not retired. All retired numbers appear in the stadium. #5 is not among them. But I agree that they probably won't reissue it in our lifetime.
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It may not be used anymore but it is certainly not retired. All retired numbers appear in the stadium. #5 is not among them. But I agree that they probably won't reissue it in our lifetime.
That is why I said "unofficially."
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Our son had an opportunity to meet and chat with Sacar and Traci yesterday. Described them as nice young guys excited to be on campus. Their only complaint, limited summer food choices and a too quiet campus. He assured both that things will pick up in August.
Hopefully the Frosh group will bond. Hey guys, make sure Coach Wojo let's you hit Summerfest. See you at the BBQ.
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Glow, have your kid take them to RC. Problem solved.
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Glow, have your kid take them to RC. Problem solved.
You all have to stop these abbreviations...who the hell is RC?
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Can someone please tell me what "Retiring a Jersey" means? You retire a number, it is NEVER worn again. What the hell is retiring a jersey? "Thompson's jersey is retired."...well no kidding, he's not playing there any more! Bart Miller's jersey is retired, too, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe it means just a select few get their likeness on a banner hanging at the BC. But then don't put their number on the banner. In fact, don't hang any banners of players at all unless you RETIRE THEIR NUMBER. Retire their jersey...just sounds so stupid!
LOL. Stop it. You want to know what "just sounds so stupid!" ????
This entry you composed may qualify my friend.
I voted Yes to this poll. But no you do not give out a retired number to a new recruit once it is in the rafters.
Of course you are young and you have no connection at all to the Great George Thompson. In fact, I doubt that none of you if not few of you have even seen him play!
In many sports the players have established the acclaim of the #'s and name on the back of the jersey as much as the name on the front of the jersey.
Now many will debate this and you have many who say, "well, it is not about the name or # 's on the back of the jersey, it matters about the name on the front of the jersey [ie, team name].
And that sounds peachy and rosy and rah rah rah sis boom bah! I can deal with that. . . but some players are so instrumental to that teams success that they transcend that.
But you puzzle me with this post. You don't give out a retired # if indeed it is officially retired or even unofficially. The manager should have know that. . . be contacted to your past glory.
You asking "What does retiring a jersey mean?" is outrageous. It means very much sir...
And unless you are a big time athlete in any sport and not just a fan-student you cannot conceptualize what it means to the one so blest.
It is an HONOR to have your # retired by. Why do I have to waste time telling you that? Come on man!
It means a whole lot. It means respect and it means honor it means pride and it means accomplishment and it means appreciation and success and so much much more . . . etc.
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You all have to stop these abbreviations...who the hell is RC?
I don't want to speak for real chili 83, but maybe Real Chili?
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Ding ding.
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^^^ hahahahaha for some reason I'm really getting a kick out of seeing muhoopsfan getting worked up in all these threads.
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^^^ hahahahaha for some reason I'm really getting a kick out of seeing muhoopsfan MHF getting worked up in all these threads.
FIFY
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FIFY
+1000
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We have pictures!
https://www.facebook.com/MarquetteMensBB/photos/pcb.692057647604532/692057324271231/?type=1&theater
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^^^ hahahahaha for some reason I'm really getting a kick out of seeing muhoopsfan getting worked up in all these threads.
MHF obviously has a broader perspective borne of experience, than you do. Translation, he's older and seen what George Thompson meant to Al's early success, has seen him play, and has a better appreciation of Thompson's contributions than you do. Me, too.
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I hope that's sarcasm because not anywhere or in any post have I mentioned that I don't have a great appreciation for GT, his play, his legendary status as an MU basketball player, or his number.
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I hope that's sarcasm because not anywhere or in any post have I mentioned that I don't have a great appreciation for GT, his play, his legendary status as an MU basketball player, or his number.
He was being completely serial.
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I do think it's interesting that eight pages and a couple hundred votes into this thread, only a minority (currently 37%) say GT's number should not be used.
Not getting back into right/wrong or good/bad, but a pretty interesting reflection of the thoughts of a group of fans who are hard core enough to hang around a college hoops message board in June....
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It doesn't matter what people on a message board think, what matters is:
A) Former players were told their jersey number was being retired
B) Marquette used to print in their media guides that the jersey numbers were retired
Marquette broke their word / promise to George. Twice.
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We have pictures!
https://www.facebook.com/MarquetteMensBB/photos/pcb.692057647604532/692057324271231/?type=1&theater
Thanks. Wow it that Sandy facing Wojo? 25 pounds well spend if it is.
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It doesn't matter what people on a message board think, what matters is:
A) Former players were told their jersey number was being retired
B) Marquette used to print in their media guides that the jersey numbers were retired
Marquette broke their word / promise to George. Twice.
Enough with your facts and logic. Facts and logic are irrelevant. What's truth when stacked up against brilliance like "A number is just a number" and "Who is George Thompson?"
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May have been talked about...just curious...any inside info on #'s for the other Frosh? Thanks guys!
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I hope that's sarcasm because not anywhere or in any post have I mentioned that I don't have a great appreciation for GT, his play, his legendary status as an MU basketball player, or his number.
Totally serious. Are you saying that you were around in the George Thompson era and did see him play?
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May have been talked about...just curious...any inside info on #'s for the other Frosh? Thanks guys!
It's mentioned in the other thread, but the roster is updated.
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/marq-m-baskbl-mtt.html
Rowsey will be #30.
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I do think it's interesting that eight pages and a couple hundred votes into this thread, only a minority (currently 37%) say GT's number should not be used.
Not getting back into right/wrong or good/bad, but a pretty interesting reflection of the thoughts of a group of fans who are hard core enough to hang around a college hoops message board in June....
The 37% probably coincides with the age demo that frequents the board.
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Thanks Guys!
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The 37% probably coincides with the age demo that frequents the board.
I said retired should stay retired. I'm one of the youngest here.
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MHF obviously has a broader perspective borne of experience, than you do. Translation, he's older and seen what George Thompson meant to Al's early success, has seen him play, and has a better appreciation of Thompson's contributions than you do. Me, too.
I've seen him play several times at MU when I was a kid. Still one of my favorites all-time.
And I don't care if they give #24 to someone else. It does not diminish George's contributions in any way.
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I've seen him play several times at MU when I was a kid. Still one of my favorites all-time.
And I don't care if they give #24 to someone else. It does not diminish George's contributions in any way.
George may not agree.
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Just read this thread....interesting the responses vs the last time it happened......
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Did somebody talk to George about this? There was little doubt Lazar was given the number by Crean out of spite (Crean also orchestrated his ouster from the booth).
Categorically wrong on both counts. I was the executive producer of the radio network for a time and you are simply wrong on this.
Next thing you know you'll be saying he wanted the nickname Gold.
I'm not defending him, but I'll point out the inaccuracies. You're just flat out wrong here.
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I was a friend and in school with George. I was in awe of him. He was the best player on the court. He played loose in the first half of games, passing the ball to team mates and not shooting much. But, in the second half, he would turn it on. He would dominate the game and win. He was unstoppable. Yes, his Jersey and number 24 should be saved and revered.
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New photos up on MUBB's facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/MarquetteMensBB
JjJ, Duane, and Sandy all added a ton of muscle. Sacar is already ripped. Luke looks like he's behind in his weight training because of the injury.
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New photos up on MUBB's facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/MarquetteMensBB
JjJ, Duane, and Sandy all added a ton of muscle. Sacar is already ripped. Luke looks like he's behind in his weight training because of the injury.
I wonder if Wojo came to the conclusion that his team needed to be stronger because there is a noticeable difference with all three of the returning players - two of which are returning for their third year.
Good to see Luke without a brace too.
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New photos up on MUBB's facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/MarquetteMensBB
JjJ, Duane, and Sandy all added a ton of muscle. Sacar is already ripped. Luke looks like he's behind in his weight training because of the injury.
Totally agree. Those three look awesome, Sandy especially. Luke will get there. Nice to simply see him on the court seemingly without restriction.
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New photos up on MUBB's facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/MarquetteMensBB
JjJ, Duane, and Sandy all added a ton of muscle. Sacar is already ripped. Luke looks like he's behind in his weight training because of the injury.
Can someone embed the pictures on here please? Thanks!
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Here's Traci Carter during a workout.*
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11393248_695136680629962_1489047866266899863_n.jpg?oh=d41d2088527005ddccaf4f7da90ff940&oe=55FD3A22)
*That's Wojo's story, and he's sticking to it.
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Can someone embed the pictures on here please? Thanks!
There's 46 pics, bud. Here's a couple:
(http://i.imgur.com/eqrcGXL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ePIHrLT.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2FHzBOn.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/rCNRYGI.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/DKqpvGc.jpg)
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Thanks Skat.
Duane lookin' ripped.
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Categorically wrong on both counts. I was the executive producer of the radio network for a time and you are simply wrong on this.
Next thing you know you'll be saying he wanted the nickname Gold.
I'm not defending him, but I'll point out the inaccuracies. You're just flat out wrong here.
Wtf? You were executive producer of whatever probably 8 years befor this went down. You have no idea. And Crean did want Gold. You are 100 percent wrong, just as you have been on everything involving Crean since I started pointing out what a douche bag they guy was a couple years into his tenure.
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Sacar looks a lot stronger than I was expecting. And he's still 3 months shy of his 18th birthday. Why do I have a hunch he outplays his ranking? Maybe not this year, but by the end of his career he could be pretty good.
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Traci Carter is looking pretty jacked in all of the pictures as well. I didn't think he was quite that big.
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Traci Carter is looking pretty jacked in all of the pictures as well. I didn't think he was quite that big.
Agreed. J/S commitment article described him as 6' 165. He does look bigger than that. Definitely cut.
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Agreed. J/S commitment article described him as 6' 165. He does look bigger than that. Definitely cut.
The recently updated roster at gomarquette.com has Traci at 175 lbs.