Freshmen starting to arrive - Anim to wear #2, Cheatham to wear #24

[Daniel]

I never knew there was a restriction on what numbers were allowed. I punched some coordinates into the google machine and found this: Legal numbers are: 00, 0-5, 10-15, 20-25, 30-35, 40-45, 50-55. Team rosters may not include both 0, and 00. Members of the same team can not use the same number.

What is the point of that?

The officials need to signal the foul on a player by holding up fingers on one or both hands - once. So Gould on 6 is five up on one and one on the other. Can't do 77 etc.

Also we had zero and 00 on teams. I believe it is a closed fist for zero, two closed fists for 00

[Daniel]

Anon Eagle makes a good point when he says 25% of jersey numbers available at Marquette have been retired. That's ridiculous. Retiring so many makes it lose its value.

Here's an idea: Do what Michigan football does. If a player wears a jersey that is honored, they also wear a small patch with the name of the former player. Very cool from a tradition and marketing standpoint. The school also connects the current player with the honored one, and acts as a mentor.

1) if a number is already retired it should remain retired. That's what it means!
2) should we retire future numbers?  Probably not. Just the jersey with name and use as suggested here what Michigan football does - that is a great idea.

[mu03eng]

Navy

Butch Lee was special. His number needs to be up there before Wade's.

'76 Olympics. Montreal. Butch Lee, snubbed by Coach Dean Smith and playing for Puerto Rico, almost defeats the US team singlehandedly. It was a Performance for the Ages. (Puerto Rico should have won but that is a different conversation...)

The National Championship Team was called the Butch and Bo Show. It was a marvel to behold.

Butch Lee is #3 in the Marquette Pantheon behind Al and Brute Force. End of discussion.

It's certainly arguable....I just view it from the prism of who put MU on the map, or back on the map so to speak.  George and Al made MU basketball what it is....Deane, Rick and O'Neil did their best to kill everything Al did, and Wade came in and redefined the program as well as continuing it's ambassadorship in the association that paved the way for the likes of JFB to take the crown from him now.

Wade and George represent the two critical eras in MU basketball.  I'm all for honoring Ellis and Lee among others, but I think their import just below that of George and Wade given the overall circumstances.

[Loose Cannon]

What do they do at places like Duke and Kentucky, who have scores of players who are good enough to have their numbers retired (at least in comparison to most other schools)?

I know at Duke one of the criteria ( a Big one) is the player must graduate to be considered.

[keefe]

I'm all for honoring Ellis and Lee among others, but I think their import just below that of George and Wade given the overall circumstances.

Yea, I see your point. That National Championship wasn't such a big deal...

[Badgerhater]

In all fairness he lead us to two ncaa appearances and an NIT finals appearance. I think he was great and on the ground floor of the modern era of MU basketball. But did he give us much more than someone like Jerel McNeal? Both all time scorers after leaving, both lead us to great success but no championships or final fours. Didn't exactly have a massively productive professional career where we'd retire him for that (Rivers) I just kind of think if we're going to retire numbers they should have gotten us a final four at least.

It's not like it's Wade.

Dumbest and most ignorant post ever to the point that you have made every Marquette diploma worthless.  Every post you make on every topic should be viewed through the lens of this stupidity and judged accordingly. 

[mu03eng]

Yea, I see your point. That National Championship wasn't such a big deal...

Wait, we won a national championship???

In all seriousness, I could be convinced to open it up or trade Wade for Ellis, etc.  The question is where is the line?  Ellis had Lee among a few other pieces to win the NC, Wade also was the lead on his team with a few other pieces.  Wade also had Crean (major anchor) as a coach while Ellis had Al.

Wade relaunched the MU brand.....Ellis and Lee built on the foundation George and Al created.

[muwarrior69]

George set the scoring record in 3 seasons and no 3 pt shot. I wonder if this is a new staff oversight or George gave his permission. I hope this gets sorted out amicably. For me it's not history, I lived it, as George and I are the class of '69.

[jsglow]

Wait, we won a national championship???

In all seriousness, I could be convinced to open it up or trade Wade for Ellis, etc.  The question is where is the line?  Ellis had Lee among a few other pieces to win the NC, Wade also was the lead on his team with a few other pieces.  Wade also had Crean (major anchor) as a coach while Ellis had Al.

Wade relaunched the MU brand.....Ellis and Lee built on the foundation George and Al created.

03Eng, keefe is right.  Your relative youth is clouding your judgement here.  You weren't even born when Butch played.  Trust us on this.  It's like saying that the recent Brewers division championship is like the '57 Braves.  No, it's not.  It's just that ESPN wasn't around to cover it. 

And remember, we're simply discussing 'program and university impact'.  I'd argue DWade is a much better player, possibly our best ever.  But let's not get lost in the weeds.

[jsglow]

Dumbest and most ignorant post ever to the point that you have made every Marquette diploma worthless.  Every post you make on every topic should be viewed through the lens of this stupidity and judged accordingly. 

C'mon badger, the young man made a misstatement.  Let's educate rather than ridicule.  We're all Warriors (even those pesky Golden Eagle types.)

[mu03eng]

03Eng, keefe is right.  Your relative youth is clouding your judgement here.  You weren't even born when Butch played.  Trust us on this.  It's like saying that the recent Brewers division championship is like the '57 Braves.  No, it's not.  It's just that ESPN wasn't around to cover it. 

And remember, we're simply discussing 'program and university impact'.  I'd argue DWade is a much better player, possibly our best ever.  But let's not get lost in the weeds.

That's my point though, Wade's impact on the current generation is greater than Ellis's impact on then that generation.  Look, in the 70s, MU basketball had 4 definite icons....George, Al, Ellis and Lee.  Since 1995...it's Wade and then maybe the 3 amigo's(definitely wouldn't put them at that level but hey it's a message board).  Anyone but Wade that is an icon in the modern era is only an icon because they went on to fantastic NBA careers (Butler, Matthews).

Let's put it another way, I have tremendous value in Lee and Ellis, but let's be honest....if Wade doesn't come around there isn't a rabid fan base to have this kind of debate or it is a bunch of old foggey's like yourself ( ) that would sit around and talk about the 70s.

Wade re-energized the entire program.  Ellis's contribution is very critical but relative to the era they played in and the impact on the university.....Wade was more significant.

[Badgerhater]

C'mon badger, the young man made a misstatement.  Let's educate rather than ridicule.  We're all Warriors (even those pesky Golden Eagle types.)

Sorry about that.  A crusty old sergeant major told me once that  "@sschewings build character, now get into my office and get some character."

We shouldn't be too hard on Bags, but all of his MU professors need to be fired.

[jsglow]

That's my point though, Wade's impact on the current generation is greater than Ellis's impact on then that generation.  Look, in the 70s, MU basketball had 4 definite icons....George, Al, Ellis and Lee.  Since 1995...it's Wade and then maybe the 3 amigo's(definitely wouldn't put them at that level but hey it's a message board).  Anyone but Wade that is an icon in the modern era is only an icon because they went on to fantastic NBA careers (Butler, Matthews).

Let's put it another way, I have tremendous value in Lee and Ellis, but let's be honest....if Wade doesn't come around there isn't a rabid fan base to have this kind of debate or it is a bunch of old foggey's like yourself ( ) that would sit around and talk about the 70s.

Wade re-energized the entire program.  Ellis's contribution is very critical but relative to the era they played in and the impact on the university.....Wade was more significant.

There is truth in what you say.  And both Butch and Bo had each other during what was an incredible 8-10 year run.  But do understand that Mu was truly elite back then.  One of the top 5-6 programs in the country, every year.  Anyway, we're lucky they were all Warriors.

[Galway Eagle]

Dumbest and most ignorant post ever to the point that you have made every Marquette diploma worthless.  Every post you make on every topic should be viewed through the lens of this stupidity and judged accordingly. 

If all you learned at MU was basketball history knowledge your MU diploma should probably be useless anyway. I don't need to argue with jack a$$es like yourself. If I did I wouldn't be a boxer I'd be a lawyer. 

But my point with that post, despite how poorly it came across, was that there are loads of great players in MU ball history. Terry Rand for example literally put us on the map. Not just the modern era but literally there were no NCAA no NIT appearances before him. If it were up to me (when I wrote that post) at least a final four would be a requirement during a players time, or NPOY honor to get retired.

[GGGG]

Thompson, Lee, Ellis and Wade are only four players.  Trying to parse it down further is an exercise in futility. 

[The Lens]

Thompson, Lee, Ellis and Wade are only four players.  Trying to parse it down further is an exercise in futility. 

+24

[4everwarriors]

George set the scoring record in 3 seasons and no 3 pt shot. I wonder if this is a new staff oversight or George gave his permission. I hope this gets sorted out amicably. For me it's not history, I lived it, as George and I are the class of '69.

Jerel doesn't come close to fillin' George's jockstrap, ai na?

[GGGG]

In all fairness he lead us to two ncaa appearances and an NIT finals appearance. I think he was great and on the ground floor of the modern era of MU basketball. But did he give us much more than someone like Jerel McNeal? Both all time scorers after leaving, both lead us to great success but no championships or final fours. Didn't exactly have a massively productive professional career where we'd retire him for that (Rivers) I just kind of think if we're going to retire numbers they should have gotten us a final four at least.

It's not like it's Wade.

LOL, cmon.

Marquette was one of 24 teams invited to the tournament his only year making it.  Almost all of whom were conference winners with very little room for at large bids.  To judge his value based on the number of tournaments he made shows a complete lack of historical perspective.

[Badgerhater]

If all you learned at MU was basketball history knowledge your MU diploma should probably be useless anyway. I don't need to argue with jack a$$es like yourself. If I did I wouldn't be a boxer I'd be a lawyer. 

But my point with that post, despite how poorly it came across, was that there are loads of great players in MU ball history. Terry Rand for example literally put us on the map. Not just the modern era but literally there were no NCAA no NIT appearances before him. If it were up to me (when I wrote that post) at least a final four would be a requirement during a players time, or NPOY honor to get retired.

It's application of historical knowledge with understanding of context and how they fit with trends and the college hoops landscape both in the  GT's and the present.   It's not that you had an incorrect answer (we all do that), its the utter lack of application of higher-level thinking.

[Badgerhater]

LOL, cmon.

Marquette was one of 24 teams invited to the tournament his only year making it.  Almost all of whom were conference winners with very little room for at large bids.  To judge his value based on the number of tournaments he made shows a complete lack of historical perspective.

It's all pretty much summed up here.

http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/030410aaa.html

Three years of eligibility and no three-point line and still leads MU in career PPG.

[79Warrior]

LOL, cmon.

Marquette was one of 24 teams invited to the tournament his only year making it.  Almost all of whom were conference winners with very little room for at large bids.  To judge his value based on the number of tournaments he made shows a complete lack of historical perspective.

But putting thoughts in perspective distorts his narrative

[BM1090]

Don't care. Retiring numbers is a dumb practice, in my opinion. The only number that should never be worn again is #42 in baseball. Other than that, don't care.

[GGGG]

Don't care. Retiring numbers is a dumb practice, in my opinion. The only number that should never be worn again is #42 in baseball. Other than that, don't care.

Oh.

[Galway Eagle]

It's application of historical knowledge with understanding of context and how they fit with trends and the college hoops landscape both in the  GT's and the present.   It's not that you had an incorrect answer (we all do that), its the utter lack of application of higher-level thinking.

So then you're just an a$$ then? I'm sorry I was working and while waiting for a meeting stumbled upon a thread I gave my initial reaction to. Maybe I'll be like you and over analyze every post and start assuming that everyone spends tons of time thinking through their posts thoroughly and applying all the higher thought we learned at MU. I'll tell you what maybe I can be like you, start doing that and still end up sounding like a jack a$$ anyways.

[BM1090]

Oh.

Lol. Just how I feel. I was at work posting and wanted to be quick so it probably came off more blunt than I intended. I just think this is a repetitive conversation that's a non issue, similar to the Warriors vs. Golden Eagles debate.