Update on prof McAdams

[jficke13]

I'll say one more thing. To see people on Facebook saying the same things about the TA that McAdams did is truly upsetting. I have never been more upset aND disgusted at the Marquette community for attacking this TA and making this a political issue which is not. It seriously makes me want to pack my bags and leave MU. Absolutely disgusting haven't hated the Marquette community this much since I almost transferred back in my freshman year. Signing off.

Wow, that's a pretty strong take.

[GGGG]

I take it you were never in Air Force Undergraduate Pilot Training (UPT.) Public humiliation is an effective motivator. There is a reason the washout rate for UPT exceeds 60%. Not everybody has the right stuff to be given the keys to an F16 Viper.

Maybe Cheryl Abbate should never be given responsibility over students. Her behavior as regards academic freedom and intellectual integrity was found wanting.

The problem with this is that academia isn't the Air Force, nor should it aspire to be.  They are different organizations with different goals and objectives.

[GGGG]

To this day, people in Seattle associate Marquette University with Jodi O'Brien. But neither shrillness nor duration of public discourse should be the gauge or barometer of the inherent stupidity or unfairness of a bad decision. Marquette shamed itself on the national stage with Jodi O'Brien. The McAdams situation reinforces that reputation for profound imprudence and ineptitude.

Even if the bolded is true....who cares?  How has their negative impression of Marquette affected the University in any significant manner? 

Marquette has faced no significant PR backlash from the O'Brien matter.  It will not face any in this matter either.  (That doesn't mean I agree with either of the decisions.)

[GGGG]

Damn right it is.


Academic freedom is ok....as long as you are talking about what they want you to talk about.  The double standards continue.

Oh God.

Chicos is going to ignore facts and nail himself to his cross of conservative victimhood once again.

I would have thought he would have run out of nails by now.

[Blue Horseshoe]

There seems to be two groups on this board.

1. McAdams was sooooo mean for going after another teacher on his personal blog. A professor challenged my beliefs once and I am now damaged for life. I am outraged about this incident. Good riddance to Mcadams!

2. Marquette used a dishonest and dangerous method to cut ties with McAdams. I am curious about the details of the matter and would like to know more. I think Dr. Lovell and Dr. Holz should be held accountable for the actions taken by the university.

[rocket surgeon]

I'll say one more thing. To see people on Facebook saying the same things about the TA that McAdams did is truly upsetting. I have never been more upset aND disgusted at the Marquette community for attacking this TA and making this a political issue which is not. It seriously makes me want to pack my bags and leave MU. Absolutely disgusting haven't hated the Marquette community this much since I almost transferred back in my freshman year. Signing off.

are you sure the comments directed at cheryl  were from the mu community?  just wondering

[rocky_warrior]

There seems to be two groups on this board.

Nope, you forgot a VERY large group 3....

3. Don't give a crap either way

[Pakuni]

There seems to be two groups on this board.

1. McAdams was sooooo mean for going after another teacher on his personal blog. A professor challenged my beliefs once and I am now damaged for life. I am outraged about this incident. Good riddance to Mcadams!

2. Marquette used a dishonest and dangerous method to cut ties with McAdams. I am curious about the details of the matter and would like to know more. I think Dr. Lovell and Dr. Holz should be held accountable for the actions taken by the university.

[Galway Eagle]

I'll say one more thing. To see people on Facebook saying the same things about the TA that McAdams did is truly upsetting. I have never been more upset aND disgusted at the Marquette community for attacking this TA and making this a political issue which is not. It seriously makes me want to pack my bags and leave MU. Absolutely disgusting haven't hated the Marquette community this much since I almost transferred back in my freshman year. Signing off.

I posted that I was annoyed with how many people were politicizing this and not taking it at what it simply is.  One guy commented that the TA never deserved to be at MU in the first place it's unreal it makes me disgusted

[forgetful]

There seems to be two groups on this board.

1. McAdams was sooooo mean for going after another teacher on his personal blog. A professor challenged my beliefs once and I am now damaged for life. I am outraged about this incident. Good riddance to Mcadams!

2. Marquette used a dishonest and dangerous method to cut ties with McAdams. I am curious about the details of the matter and would like to know more. I think Dr. Lovell and Dr. Holz should be held accountable for the actions taken by the university.

She was not a teacher.  If it was a colleague, it would be different, this was a student.  McAdams never challenged her beliefs, he attacked her, when he was supposed to be in a position of mentoring.

Many like myself, do not think the TA handled things correctly.  Many TAs make mistakes, even many faculty make mistakes, it is the faculty's job to take them aside and help them.  He instead attacked her personally and professionally.  Such complete disregard for his job as a professor and the student/faculty relationship is a fireable offense.

Many like myself do not care as to the background of the event.  It is McAdams actions alone that are being judged here.

[Blue Horseshoe]

She was not a teacher.  If it was a colleague, it would be different, this was a student.  McAdams never challenged her beliefs, he attacked her, when he was supposed to be in a position of mentoring.

Many like myself, do not think the TA handled things correctly.  Many TAs make mistakes, even many faculty make mistakes, it is the faculty's job to take them aside and help them.  He instead attacked her personally and professionally.  Such complete disregard for his job as a professor and the student/faculty relationship is a fireable offense.

Many like myself do not care as to the background of the event.  It is McAdams actions alone that are being judged here.

Abbate was acting as a faculty member. Marquette places graduate students in the position of instructors and gives them control over a classroom. McAdams' conduct does not violate any Faculty Statute or other university requirement. Nothing in the statutes or any other university policy prohibits a faculty member from publicly disagreeing with a graduate student, much less someone who has been given sole responsibility for a course and authority over every student enrolled in it. Having accepted that authority and responsibility, the instructor in question chose to express her view on what can and cannot be permitted in academic discourse. In fact she relied on her authority as a "professor of ethics" in order to do so. That was her right. But Dr. McAdams is free to offer his differing view.

[Pakuni]

Abbate was acting as a faculty member. Marquette places graduate students in the position of instructors and gives them control over a classroom. McAdams' conduct does not violate any Faculty Statute or other university requirement. Nothing in the statutes or any other university policy prohibits a faculty member from publicly disagreeing with a graduate student, much less someone who has been given sole responsibility for a course and authority over every student enrolled in it. Having accepted that authority and responsibility, the instructor in question chose to express her view on what can and cannot be permitted in academic discourse. In fact she relied on her authority as a "professor of ethics" in order to do so. That was her right. But Dr. McAdams is free to offer his differing view.

You know you're just making stuff up here, right?
Abbate was not a faculty member nor was she acting as one. Doesn't matter how many times you state it, it's just not true. She was acting as a graduate student assigned to teach a class.

Also, from the Marquette University employee handbook:

Violations of accepted policy and practice include, but are not limited to:

4. Behaving in an overtly discourteous, abusive or disrespectful manner toward a fellow employee, supervisor, student or any other member of the Marquette community.

[Blue Horseshoe]

You know you're just making stuff up here, right?
Abbate was not a faculty member nor was she acting as one. Doesn't matter how many times you state it, it's just not true. She was acting as a graduate student assigned to teach a class.

Also, from the Marquette University employee handbook:

Violations of accepted policy and practice include, but are not limited to:

4. Behaving in an overtly discourteous, abusive or disrespectful manner toward a fellow employee, supervisor, student or any other member of the Marquette community.

As McAdams blogged, an anonymous MU colleague stated, "[D]id Ms. Abbate have full authority of a faculty member to lecture, assign readings, moderate class discussion, assign and grade papers, write and grade tests, and assign final grades? If so, why would a graduate student instructor be insulated from all criticism for anything they may do as an instructor with full faculty authority? Yes, the graduate student instructor is a student, but if they are given full faculty authority, then they should be open to criticism of their conduct as a faculty instructor. In short, I don't think the university can have it both ways."

MU's harassment policy is also broad, "Harassment is defined as verbal, written or physical conduct directed at a person or a group based on color, race, national origin, ethnicity, religion, disability, veteran status, age, gender or sexual orientation where the offensive behavior is intimidating, hostile or demeaning or could or does result in mental, emotional or physical discomfort, embarrassment, ridicule or harm."

Ridiculous.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Nope, you forgot a VERY large group 3....

3. Don't give a crap either way

This one for sure.  

As a matter fact Marquette coincidentally just called for the annual donation and I gave.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

As McAdams blogged, an anonymous MU colleague stated, "[D]id Ms. Abbate have full authority of a faculty member to lecture, assign readings, moderate class discussion, assign and grade papers, write and grade tests, and assign final grades? If so, why would a graduate student instructor be insulated from all criticism for anything they may do as an instructor with full faculty authority? Yes, the graduate student instructor is a student, but if they are given full faculty authority, then they should be open to criticism of their conduct as a faculty instructor. In short, I don't think the university can have it both ways."

MU's harassment policy is also broad, "Harassment is defined as verbal, written or physical conduct directed at a person or a group based on color, race, national origin, ethnicity, religion, disability, veteran status, age, gender or sexual orientation where the offensive behavior is intimidating, hostile or demeaning or could or does result in mental, emotional or physical discomfort, embarrassment, ridicule or harm."

Ridiculous.

You really need to understand the difference between criticism and verbal abuse and threats. BIG difference.

[Blue Horseshoe]

You really need to understand the difference between criticism and verbal abuse and threats. BIG difference.

Since you brought it up, state the alleged verbal abuse and threats that MacAdams used.

[GGGG]

As McAdams blogged, an anonymous MU colleague stated, "[D]id Ms. Abbate have full authority of a faculty member to lecture, assign readings, moderate class discussion, assign and grade papers, write and grade tests, and assign final grades? If so, why would a graduate student instructor be insulated from all criticism for anything they may do as an instructor with full faculty authority? Yes, the graduate student instructor is a student, but if they are given full faculty authority, then they should be open to criticism of their conduct as a faculty instructor. In short, I don't think the university can have it both ways."

Because they *aren't* faculty members!  Just because they act *like* a faculty member when they teach a course, that doesn't make them such.

That's not having it both ways.  That's simply an accurate description of who they are.

I agree with the basic premise that he shouldn't have been fired, at least knowing what has been released publicly, but you are splitting hairs here.

[Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist]

Sultan is likely spot on, here, although a lawsuit is a wildcard.

McAdams was a cancer on MU, and the chemotherapy will not be pretty, but in the end, the patient will be just fine.

+1000. Dude was a cancer.  I'd love to see somebody dig up everything anti-MU he has posted. When you're a corporation, if one of your own is continually biting the hand that feeds it, they shouldn't be surprised when the corporation gets rid of them.  He destroyed a students life...was she wrong, IMO absolutely. But there's a way to handle things professionally and appropriately.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Since you brought it up, state the alleged verbal abuse and threats that MacAdams used.

+1

[rocket surgeon]

+1000. Dude was a cancer.  I'd love to see somebody dig up everything anti-MU he has posted. When you're a corporation, if one of your own is continually biting the hand that feeds it, they shouldn't be surprised when the corporation gets rid of them.  He destroyed a students life...was she wrong, IMO absolutely. But there's a way to handle things professionally and appropriately.

Seriously?  MU is a teaching institution, not a corporation.  Universities are supposed to invite debate and discourse of opposing ideas.  If we tried to look for all the negative things said publicly by univ. Employed people and then fired them...whoa whoa

[Blue Horseshoe]

+1000. Dude was a cancer.  I'd love to see somebody dig up everything anti-MU he has posted. When you're a corporation, if one of your own is continually biting the hand that feeds it, they shouldn't be surprised when the corporation gets rid of them.  He destroyed a students life...was she wrong, IMO absolutely. But there's a way to handle things professionally and appropriately.

A students life was destroyed? What does that even mean?

[Ellenson Guerrero]

I found this post from a decade ago to be intriguing: 

http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2005/11/marquette-and-heretical-dan-maguire.html

[Blackhat]

Tenure needs to be abolished regardless of this individual case.  

He'll probably get a nice little retirement package out of this.

[GGGG]

I found this post from a decade ago to be intriguing:  

http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2005/11/marquette-and-heretical-dan-maguire.html

So either...

1.  Marquette changed its policy regarding academic freedom.

or

2.  This isn't about academic freedom.

My guess is that #2 is the correct answer.

[GGGG]

Tenure needs to be abolished regardless of this individual case.

Why?