Why JJJ has to play 25+ minutes per game

[Shark]

You consider today one of our three best wins of the year?!? What is your criteria?

What win is better? Providence? That was a home game though. ASU? They are barely .500. Only one better might be Tennesee

[BM1090]

Yeah I think the best 3 are Tennessee, Providence and SHU. No order.

[Jables1604]

I didn't see the game. I'm not looking to criticize the comment. My question was based in large part on the characterizations I've read on this board that Seton Hall's poor play had something to do with the win. So I'll ask again, only because I'm curious. What criteria do you base your opinion on? Quality of opponent? Offensive output? Defense?

[buckchuckler]

Glad to see your riding the JJJ train now. We need this young man if we are going to salvage our season.

Really?  Salvage the season?  How are things in wonderland today? 

[onepost]

Minutes are on the increase from getting a DNP?  I'd hope.  Wojo's hand forced a little today with Carlino out and only 7 deep and Sandy having major struggles of late?  And really?? What do you expect to say?  Wojo blamed poor practice as the reason for his benching, yet, today he plays big minutes, performs well as usual when given big minutes and now Wojo has to cover his ass to an extent as people might wonder:  Gee, Why has this kid been getting nailed to the bench for the better part of the last 7 games and that has coincided with 7 straight losses?

You think JJJ all of a sudden just started "practicing better?"  He's a slasher, driver, scorer and transition player - those types of attributes rarely go bad - albeit in practice you don't spend much time going up and down the floor at all.

Sadly, JJJ was performing just as well prior to the benching as he has after the benching.  My point was that Wojo is/was playing Russian roulette because JJJ is very talented.  Buzz would have lost him after last season had Buzz not moved on.  And Wojo already lost Burton and Dawson due to benching them behind less talented vets.

Just stop.  Please stop.  I don't know how many more times I/we can tell you that this just isn't true.  Russian Roulette?  Stop with the unnatural carnal knowledgeing narratives.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I was very excited by JjJ's performance yesterday. He has gotten steadily better each of the games since he was benched against Xavier. He was in a downward trend going into that game and Wojo wouldn't have any of it. He saw an issue with his player and took steps to correct it. JjJ has responded to it exactly as I hoped a player would.

JjJ's steady improvement (not just this one game) since the benching should be proof to debunk all the crap on here that was said about JjJ and Wojo. People accused Wojo of playing mind games and being dishonest with JjJ. Those same people also implied that JjJ was a self enititled whiner who would pout and quit if Wojo didn't give him the playing time he felt he deserved. JjJ did the opposite, he listened to his coaches, worked harder, and improved in each game since. This is exactly the type of result you hope for when you bench a kid. The benching, in theory, lost us the Xavier game, but it may have also won us the Seton Hall game, and hopefully given us a much improved JjJ for the rest of his career.

This should also debunk the myth that Wojo doesn't know how to connect with and motivate his players, because it seems his tactics have worked.

[GGGG]

I was very excited by JjJ's performance yesterday. He has gotten steadily better each of the games since he was benched against Xavier. He was in a downward trend going into that game and Wojo wouldn't have any of it. He saw an issue with his player and took steps to correct it. JjJ has responded to it exactly as I hoped a player would.

JjJ's steady improvement (not just this one game) since the benching should be proof to debunk all the crap on here that was said about JjJ and Wojo. People accused Wojo of playing mind games and being dishonest with JjJ. Those same people also implied that JjJ was a self enititled whiner he would pout and quit if Wojo didn't give him the playing time he felt he deserved. JjJ did the opposite, he listened to his coaches, worked harder, and improved in each game since. This is exactly the type of result you hope for when you bench a kid. The benching, in theory, lost us the Xavier game, but it may have also won us the Seton Hall game, and hopefully given us a much improved JjJ for the rest of his career.

This should also debunk the myth that Wojo doesn't know how to connect with and motivate his players, because it seems his tactics have worked.

Yep.  No doubt.  His energy has been much better directed.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

This should also debunk the myth that Wojo doesn't know how to connect with and motivate his players, because it seems his tactics have worked.

I don't know if this proves anything other than SHU played terrible basketball. Looking for signs to disprove stories from those with over active imaginations is interesting however.

As for JJJ he played well yesterday. Hoping he goes on a little run to increase the optimism for next year.

[GGGG]

Just stop.  Please stop.  I don't know how many more times I/we can tell you that this just isn't true.  Russian Roulette?  Stop with the unnatural carnal knowledgeing narratives.

Really is it that hard to believe that he might be practicing better?  That he might be more focused and better understanding of what is expected of him?

Why do a handful of people here try to make simple concepts hard?  How about this....the benching had the effect that Wojo wanted.  IOW, IT WORKED!!!!

Stop with the dumbass, self-reinforcing narratives.  The fact is that Wojo is by and large coaching well.  Players are showing improvement.  Players are focused and playing hard.  Tactically there are some issues, but that will sort itself out.

[willie warrior]

Really is it that hard to believe that he might be practicing better?  That he might be more focused and better understanding of what is expected of him?

Why do a handful of people here try to make simple concepts hard?  How about this....the benching had the effect that Wojo wanted.  IOW, IT WORKED!!!!

Stop with the dumbass, self-reinforcing narratives.  The fact is that Wojo is by and large coaching well.  Players are showing improvement.  Players are focused and playing hard.  Tactically there are some issues, but that will sort itself out.

"dumbass, self reinforcing narratives".....Hmmmm.....could this be an expert witness?

[GGGG]

"dumbass, self reinforcing narratives".....Hmmmm.....could this be an expert witness?

OK...that was funny.

[MUDPT]

I'm not sure anyone else has mentioned it, but Wojo had a big hug for JJJ after the game.  Also mentioned in the post game radio show that he had had his best week of practice last week.

[MU1980]

Really is it that hard to believe that he might be practicing better?  That he might be more focused and better understanding of what is expected of him?

Why do a handful of people here try to make simple concepts hard?  How about this....the benching had the effect that Wojo wanted.  IOW, IT WORKED!!!!

Stop with the dumbass, self-reinforcing narratives.  The fact is that Wojo is by and large coaching well.  Players are showing improvement.  Players are focused and playing hard.  Tactically there are some issues, but that will sort itself out.

It is amazing to me that for as much as they post, both Ners and Texas Western have no concept of how important the psychology of coaching is.  Wojo is showing me that he is very good at this aspect of coaching.  They look at the small sample and worry about how making JJJ earn playing time is going to hurt him, make him transfer, make the rest of the team mad at Wojo, disrupt team chemistry, etc., etc.  Too funny.  The best coaches are masters at the psychology of coaching and don't worry about hurting someones feelings or what a random moron on a message board thinks, because they see the big picture.  Obviously Wojo sees the talent in JJJ and is working towards making him the star that he thinks he can be.  Poor coaches would do what Ners and TW want, just play him because he has talent and let him play four years of undisciplined basketball and show flashes of his excellent talent.  Only complete players are going to get playing time from Wojo as he builds his own team with his own players.  JJJ is a more difficult situation because Wojo most likely would not have recruited him, but he is here and there is potential and so he he making the tough decisions that a coach has to make (yes coaching is much tougher than posting on a message board believe it or not Ners and TW).  With Burton we lost a  good player because he wasn't buying into the complete player philosophy (and was dealing with the death of his mother).  With JJJ and Cohen it appears that the desire to teach how to play and practice the right way seems to be working.  Looking forward to seeing JJJ develop into the player he is capable of being over the next two plus years. 

[Lighthouse 84]

I'm not sure anyone else has mentioned it, but Wojo had a big hug for JJJ after the game.  Also mentioned in the post game radio show that he had had his best week of practice last week.

I did make the point and Ners shot down the notion that JjJ is practicing better lately, even tho WoJo said he is.  So rather than believe the coach, the gospel according to Ners is told again.  And again. And again

[tower912]

I did make the point and Ners shot down the notion that JjJ is practicing better lately, even tho WoJo said he is.  So rather than believe the coach, the gospel according to Ners is told again.  And again. And again

You need to put 'I-dunked-in-high-school-Rob-Lowe' on ignore and quit beating your head against a wall. 

[MU82]

Glad to see your riding the JJJ train now. We need this young man if we are going to salvage our season.

I was never off "the JJJ train." In fact, I started a topic after one of his good earlier games mocking the clowns who said he was a waste, had no talent and should leave. I happen to think he does have talent, I hope he continues to improve and I hope he has a break-out season in 2015-16.

Unlike you (and some others here), however, I have no "agenda." I'm not related to these kids, I'm not friends of their families, I'm not an "insider" who claims to have knowledge of the inner workings of our team. Like many other level-headed Scoopers, I am a realist and a long-time basketball observer who is capable of looking beyond black-and-white to see nuance.

I do not think Wojo is a perfect coach, nor do I see him as someone who is killing our program -- there is ground in between those extreme vantage points. He is a first-year coach who already has improved and probably will continue to do so. I happen to trust him on everything JJJ-related so far because I have no reason to distrust him. I find his "side" of the situation more credible than the side that wants me to believe he has it in for JJJ, is out to ruin JJJ, wants to make JJJ transfer, etc.

If Wojo "cost us the Xavier game" by benching JJJ, I can live with that very nicely because, in the big picture, that game is meaningless.

Salvage our season? In terms of wins and losses and NCAA tourney bids, there is nothing to salvage -- and there never was. We simply aren't good enough. The only way this season will matter is if the new coach establishes the discipline, commitment and team-first attitude necessary for future seasons to be successful. Given everything I know about the situation, Wojo has done just that with JJJ and others. I am very bullish on the future of Marquette hoops.

[NersEllenson]

Still would like any of the usual head coach slurpers - TAMU, Sultan, OnePost, 82, LIghthouse84 - to actually disprove my points made:

JJJ's production yesterday was essentially the exact same as it was in the other 6 games that he played 25+ minutes - all of which were before the benching.  So how can you say the benching was the reason JJJ played well against Seton Hall??  He played well, because he got lots of minutes, just as is the case the other 6 times Wojo let him run.

Were we down a man yesterday?  Was Wojo's hand forced a little to play JJJ more minutes?  Do you really think Wojo is going to come out and say anything other than JJJ practiced well this past week to try to justify his playing time and also support why he was benched - as certainly his performance yesterday left even his haters here scratching their heads?  (Keep in mind while Wojo ratcheted JJJ's minutes way down the team lost 6 games in a row.)

Did none of you guys believe JJJ was ready to transfer at the end of last season?  If you don't think getting nailed to the bench when you see guys make similar screw ups as you, and guys that are far less productive on the basketball court get major minutes, doesn't affect your attitude and view of your head coach - well - I've got some oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you.

[GGGG]

Bring up wacky points.

Others address wacky points.

Bring up wacky points again.  Assert they were never addressed.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

[connie]

Still would like any of the usual head coach slurpers - TAMU, Sultan, OnePost, 82, LIghthouse84 - to actually disprove my points made:

JJJ's production yesterday was essentially the exact same as it was in the other 6 games that he played 25+ minutes - all of which were before the benching.  So how can you say the benching was the reason JJJ played well against Seton Hall??  He played well, because he got lots of minutes, just as is the case the other 6 times Wojo let him run.

Were we down a man yesterday?  Was Wojo's hand forced a little to play JJJ more minutes?  Do you really think Wojo is going to come out and say anything other than JJJ practiced well this past week to try to justify his playing time and also support why he was benched - as certainly his performance yesterday left even his haters here scratching their heads?  (Keep in mind while Wojo ratcheted JJJ's minutes way down the team lost 6 games in a row.)

Did none of you guys believe JJJ was ready to transfer at the end of last season?  If you don't think getting nailed to the bench when you see guys make similar screw ups as you, and guys that are far less productive on the basketball court get major minutes, doesn't affect your attitude and view of your head coach - well - I've got some oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you.

Why bother addressing anything you say?  You obviously know best.  You refuse to acknowledge any of the other multitude of explanations that don't fit your narrative.

I spend a lot of time with special needs kids that often ask the same questions, multiple times, every time I see them.  It can get tiring but at least their hearts are pure.  I used to value your input, thinking that you were just passionately devoted to this team.  Now, after your incessant, narcissistic criticism of two very different coaches that don't follow your world view, I believe something else is going on.  Go ahead and get the last word, as I am sure you must. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Still would like any of the usual head coach slurpers - TAMU, Sultan, OnePost, 82, LIghthouse84 - to actually disprove my points made:

JJJ's production yesterday was essentially the exact same as it was in the other 6 games that he played 25+ minutes - all of which were before the benching.  So how can you say the benching was the reason JJJ played well against Seton Hall??  He played well, because he got lots of minutes, just as is the case the other 6 times Wojo let him run.

Were we down a man yesterday?  Was Wojo's hand forced a little to play JJJ more minutes?  Do you really think Wojo is going to come out and say anything other than JJJ practiced well this past week to try to justify his playing time and also support why he was benched - as certainly his performance yesterday left even his haters here scratching their heads?  (Keep in mind while Wojo ratcheted JJJ's minutes way down the team lost 6 games in a row.)

Did none of you guys believe JJJ was ready to transfer at the end of last season?  If you don't think getting nailed to the bench when you see guys make similar screw ups as you, and guys that are far less productive on the basketball court get major minutes, doesn't affect your attitude and view of your head coach - well - I've got some oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you.

I love how you constantly ignore the possibility in those other games you cherry pick that he got those minutes because he was playing well as opposed to playing well because he got a certain number of minutes.  That's argument has been had so not sure why I'm rehashing it.    

JJJ did play well yesterday - he attacked the rim and created for himself and others.  He was better defensively yesterday as well but let's not ignore how often he has gambled this year, which has led to a lot of easy buckets for the opposition.  Let's not use steals as a measure of how good a player is defensively either.  He needs to play to his strengths - attack the rim, floaters, even a couple of midrange jump shots.  He shouldn't let fly from beyond the arc unless absolutely necessary - he is awful from deep and his shot selection has been horrendous at times.  

I think he should earn some more minutes after yesterday's performance and if he is practicing better.  But to say he should be playing 25 mpg per game because he has earned that time is 100% false.  You need to stop connecting everything you are unhappy about (JJJ minutes, Deonte transferring) to Derrick.  And let me be clear - Derrick is what he is and I would have no issue if JJJ and Sandy got more minutes at his expense.  For those familiar with Seinfeld you sound like Costanza blaming everything that was going wrong for him on Lloyd Braun.  The difference is Costanza was right.

Let's see how JJJ performs on Tuesday.  Hopefully he can build on this performance but it really is up to him.  If he starts jacking up ill-advised 3s, turning the ball over and playing poorly defensively he won't get those minutes and he shouldn't.  If he doesn't and continues on this path I would love to see him get more minutes.  If he earns them he will get them - it really is that simple.    

[NersEllenson]

Bring up wacky points.

Others address wacky points.

Bring up wacky points again.  Assert they were never addressed.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

LOL - What is truly wacky is to suggest that JJJ's benching led to him playing better yesterday or better the 5 games after the benching.  That's some real rainbow and unicorn stuff right there.

I'm simply asking you and the other Wojo slurpers how you can say the above as fact??  It's an opinion at best and one the facts don't support.  JJJ hasn't been better in the games since the benching.  The only correlation to better performance by JJJ is, and always has been more minutes.  As I said, 6 games of plus 25 minutes before the benching, in which he averaged 29.6 minutes he produced 13/4/2/3/2.  Yesterday he gets 35 minutes and gives 13/4/2/2/3.

I get that you and the others on the Wojo slurp train and Ners hate train want to try to suggest that JJJ's performance yesterday was the sheer result of the great "coaching" and motivational tactic Wojo deployed 6 games ago against Xavier - but it wasn't.

[mattyv1908]

I will say this in regards to JJJ and Duane.  If you guys recall in the second half after a steal led to a Johnson bucket Duane and JJJ kind of congratulated each other in the front court when Seton Hall attempted to push the ball up court following the made basket.  You could see each one of them kick it into another gear as to not get beat in transition.

Those two kids can really run.  I hope they both can learn to harness their natural ability.

[NersEllenson]

I love how you constantly ignore the possibility in those other games you cherry pick that he got those minutes because he was playing well as opposed to playing well because he got a certain number of minutes.  That's argument has been had so not sure why I'm rehashing it.    

JJJ did play well yesterday - he attacked the rim and created for himself and others.  He was better defensively yesterday as well but let's not ignore how often he has gambled this year, which has led to a lot of easy buckets for the opposition.  Let's not use steals as a measure of how good a player is defensively either.  He needs to play to his strengths - attack the rim, floaters, even a couple of midrange jump shots.  He shouldn't let fly from beyond the arc unless absolutely necessary - he is awful from deep and his shot selection has been horrendous at times.  

I think he should earn some more minutes after yesterday's performance and if he is practicing better.  But to say he should be playing 25 mpg per game because he has earned that time is 100% false.  You need to stop connecting everything you are unhappy about (JJJ minutes, Deonte transferring) to Derrick.  And let me be clear - Derrick is what he is and I would have no issue if JJJ and Sandy got more minutes at his expense.  For those familiar with Seinfeld you sound like Costanza blaming everything that was going wrong for him on Lloyd Braun.  The difference is Costanza was right.

Let's see how JJJ performs on Tuesday.  Hopefully he can build on this performance but it really is up to him.  If he starts jacking up ill-advised 3s, turning the ball over and playing poorly defensively he won't get those minutes and he shouldn't.  If he doesn't and continues on this path I would love to see him get more minutes.  If he earns them he will get them - it really is that simple.    

That's nice Blue Man.  If you are such a proponent of players earning minutes, can you please share with me what Derrick Wilson did yesterday to earn 40 minutes, or last season to earn more minutes than any other player on the roster?

And for the 100th time, just because you come into a game and miss your first two shots or have a turnover or two, it doesn't mean you are going to SUCK for the whole game.  If JJJ starts a game with some of those events, historically Wojo yanks him and rarely gives him more time.  You can't put up stats sitting on the bench.  Furthermore, if you go into a game thinking if I screw up/miss my first couple of shots, I know it is bench city - you play tight.  YOu have to let your talented guys play through their mistakes.  JJJ is probably the most talented player on this entire roster at this point, and using him 15 minutes per game is ridiculous, and of course it helped contribute to us losing 6 games in a row, while Wojo tried to use motivational tactics on JJJ (that were unnecessary.)

It's amazing how many people here seem to desire having a player that does virtually NOTHING other than not making mistakes, because they play so incredibly conservatively and passively, that they never put themselves in a position to screw up.  But that player "plays within himself," "knows his role," etc.

I agree JJJ has struggled from the 3 point line, obviously, yet he needs to keep shooting them as most of them are open shots/good looks.  I was impressed that during the game yesterday Wojo told JJ - "JJ if it's an open shot, shoot it."  JJ passed up on a good look from the 3 after missing his first two attempts yesterday, in a possession toward the end of the shot clock.  He passed to a teammate who then got a worse look and missed.

[esotericmindguy]

JJJ is a talented player. If he can even shoot 35% from 3 he'll be a dangerous player with his length and quickness. Juan Anderson and Vander are the only top 100 recruits (that i can think of) that stayed for 4 years after failing to "fulfill" their expectations. vander is probably going to be in the NBA and Juan has become serviceable.

Let these guys become upperclassmen and see what they can do. Then get another crop of top 100 guys in and let them develop and so on and so forth. All MU fans have experienced are top 100 guys playing limited minutes for a year or two then transferring. I'm looking forward to Wojo changing the morale within the program and JJJ becoming a good player.

[BCHoopster]

Before you anoit JJJ as a potential star, he has a lot areas to improve on, one is his shooting.  In the first half, he had a wide open shot on the baseline and he missed it wide right barely touching the rim.  He will given total opportunity to start at the three next year. Gains 10 pounds of muscle, learns to go to his left a tad, and able to knock down a three consistently will
make playing time more readily available.  Another point, like to see against X the same type of game from Steve Taylor and JJJ.  Even Duane.  Consistency has been lacking from all 3.  Taylor
being a senior next year could be an X factor.  At times could play Ellenson, Fisher and Taylor together which would give MU a big frontline, add Cheatham and JJJ at the guards and MU is as
big as an NBA team,  interesting.