Why JJJ has to play 25+ minutes per game

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

You can keep believing the burn no bridges quotes Deonte made to the Journal Sentinel.  If he was happy with his role, and felt Wojo was a good fit for him as a coach - he would have stayed at MU.  Period.  It had nothing to do with "needing to get away from Milwaukee."  

In other words, Wojo threw him under the bus.

(am I doing it right?)

[g0lden3agle]

You can keep believing the burn no bridges quotes Deonte made to the Journal Sentinel.  If he was happy with his role, and felt Wojo was a good fit for him as a coach - he would have stayed at MU.  Period.  It had nothing to do with "needing to get away from Milwaukee."  

And you know this.... how?

[MU B2002]

And you know this.... how?

Players gotta stick together.

[Lennys Tap]

In other words, Wojo threw him under the bus.

(am I doing it right?)

I battle with Ners as much as anyone, but if you, TAMU and others really believe Deonte left school, his teammates and the basketball court for a year to get to Ames and out of Milwaukee, well, I don't know what to say other than I have some desert land due for irrigation soon to sell you and it's a steal.

I'm not saying Wojo threw him or Dawson under the bus, but I think it's obvious to all that both of their roles turned out to be smaller/different in November than we/they thought from April-October. To their credit, everyone (Deonte, John, their families and Wojo himself) took the high road when they left but these guys are basketball players and they left for basketball reasons - no matter what the press releases said.

[Lighthouse 84]

 Wojo did do a better job of extending the leash for JJJ last night.

Glad you approved.  Though I think JjJ got minutes because of the type of game it was.  Yes, he made 2 threes but his D was non-existent.  My guess is in a close game, you would not have approved of the length of the leash.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I battle with Ners as much as anyone, but if you, TAMU and others really believe Deonte left school, his teammates and the basketball court for a year to get to Ames and out of Milwaukee, well, I don't know what to say other than I have some desert land due for irrigation soon to sell you and it's a steal.

I'm not saying Wojo threw him or Dawson under the bus, but I think it's obvious to all that both of their roles turned out to be smaller/different in November than we/they thought from April-October. To their credit, everyone (Deonte, John, their families and Wojo himself) took the high road when they left but these guys are basketball players and they left for basketball reasons - no matter what the press releases said.

I think it's absolutely fair to say that Deonte was unhappy at MU. Basketball and MU's new head coach certainly play a role in that. Maybe even the primary role. Totally fair.

But, this idea that Wojo "threw Deonte under the bus" is silly.

Deonte no longer thought MU was the best fit for him, so he transferred.

[Lennys Tap]

I think it's absolutely fair to say that Deonte was unhappy at MU. Basketball and MU's new head coach certainly play a role in that. Maybe even the primary role. Totally fair.

But, this idea that Wojo "threw Deonte under the bus" is silly.

Deonte no longer thought MU was the best fit for him, so he transferred.

Agreed.

[brandx]

I'm not saying Wojo threw him or Dawson under the bus, but I think it's obvious to all that both of their roles turned out to be smaller/different in November than we/they thought from April-October. To their credit, everyone (Deonte, John, their families and Wojo himself) took the high road when they left but these guys are basketball players and they left for basketball reasons - no matter what the press releases said.

All they had to do was play better. Except in rare cases, players determine their role on the team.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You can keep believing the burn no bridges quotes Deonte made to the Journal Sentinel.  If he was happy with his role, and felt Wojo was a good fit for him as a coach - he would have stayed at MU.  Period.  It had nothing to do with "needing to get away from Milwaukee."  

I battle with Ners as much as anyone, but if you, TAMU and others really believe Deonte left school, his teammates and the basketball court for a year to get to Ames and out of Milwaukee, well, I don't know what to say other than I have some desert land due for irrigation soon to sell you and it's a steal.

I'm not saying Wojo threw him or Dawson under the bus, but I think it's obvious to all that both of their roles turned out to be smaller/different in November than we/they thought from April-October. To their credit, everyone (Deonte, John, their families and Wojo himself) took the high road when they left but these guys are basketball players and they left for basketball reasons - no matter what the press releases said.

Why is it so hard to believe that it is possible the Deonte wanted to leave because being in Milwaukee was painful to him after the passing of his mother? It seems completely reasonable to me. I don't actually believe it was the only reason. But that is my belief, not a fact. I also do truly believe that if Deonte's mother hadn't passed, he would have never transferred. That's one of the reasons I don't put much blame on Wojo.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Why is it so hard to believe that it is possible the Deonte wanted to leave because being in Milwaukee was painful to him after the passing of his mother? It seems completely reasonable to me. I don't actually believe it was the only reason. But that is my belief, not a fact. I also do truly believe that if Deonte's mother hadn't passed, he would have never transferred. That's one of the reasons I don't put much blame on Wojo.

Exactly - people are absolutely underselling the impact losing his mother could have had on him.  I'm in my upper 30s and losing my mother now would be devastating to me.  I can't imagine what he was going through as a 19-20 year old kid. 

Maybe if things were going really well on the team he would have stayed in spite of her passing.  I am not saying his dissatisfaction with the team had no impact on his decision.  However, to state as fact that his transfer "had nothing to do with needing to get away from Milwaukee", unless he told someone that personally, is completely idiotic.  Sometimes you do just want to get away from a place that reminds of you something very painful.   

[forgetful]

Why is it so hard to believe that it is possible the Deonte wanted to leave because being in Milwaukee was painful to him after the passing of his mother? It seems completely reasonable to me. I don't actually believe it was the only reason. But that is my belief, not a fact. I also do truly believe that if Deonte's mother hadn't passed, he would have never transferred. That's one of the reasons I don't put much blame on Wojo.

I think it was a combination of the two.  He was dealing with difficult issues and unhappy with his role on the team. 

In the end he decided to transfer.  That is not a negative on anyone, especially not Wojo.  He expects players to be disciplined and skilled. 

Burton was highly skilled and highly undisciplined.  So he didn't play a lot.
JJJ has extreme potential (athletically gifted) but is highly undisciplined.  So he doesn't play a lot now. 

Both can/could reflect on their game and try to improve as players (more disciplined), I think JJJ is working on it, but is struggling with it.  Burton decided he would rather leave.  He now has an entire year to work on being more disciplined without being frustrated with playing time.  If he learns to be disciplined on the court he will have a long and successful career.

If he doesn't learn discipline, he'll either sit the bench, or score a lot on an undisciplined team and never make the NBA.

The coach constructs a system.  He works with the players to adapt to the system.  It is on the player to make an effort to do everything they can to play their role, if they are unhappy with their role, they can transfer.

[onepost]

Tennessee forced Cuonzo Martin out after 3 years and a 63-41 record. So that is the max time I would give him. The donors here at MU may not be willing to wait that long and that would be of major importance to me in that position.  The University should be concerned by the very poor culture that Wojo is creating. MU needs to be considered about the student athlete overall experience. They tell the parents they are acting In Loco Parentis.   As much as I was displeased by Buzz in his last year, I always felt he cared about the kids on his team. Wojo is willing to callously throw a kid under the bus if it fits his needs (Burton).  So all things considered, I would treat him the same way he treats JJJ, put him on a very short leash and yank it if he doesn't perform instantly. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Net Net I would be willing to give him one more year. Cut your losses and run.

I'm not sure what your relationship is with players on the team.  It seems you have some relationship to Jajuan, even though you've been on this board longer than his time here and you refuse to tell anyone what that relationship is.  Because of you and Ners I try to stay away from any thread that picks up pages and pages of content, so I'm a fews days late.  But I went back and read this post.  Plain and simple, you are lying.  You are literally spewing garbage each thread.

Wojo is a good man and he is creating the RIGHT CULTURE here at MU.  A damn good one from all accounts that I've heard.  Something we desperately needed after Buzz nearly sunk our entire program in with his constant bullcrap (or do you miss Marquette being plastered all over the front page of the Chicago Tribune because our coach covered up a rape scandal here on campus?).  I've already offered up opinions of a current manager who contradicts every single thing you say about our coaches and their relationships with our players.  I'll go further to dispel the notion that Buzz was a caring, genuine man.  I was a manager for Buzz and it was dreadful.  He is an egomaniacal prick who only looked out for himself, and couldn't have been more of an actor when it came to his press conferences.  As Chicos has stated, "he knew when the cameras were on".  Unless you were a Jimmy, DJO, Jae, Vander, Junior caliber player on this team, Buzz had absolutely no one's back (and couldn't help but run a program that CONTINUALLY had problems and stories arise).  Treated fringe players poorly, managers even worse, and wouldn't even acknowledge other sports in the athletic department (as some have also said on this board).  You "claim" Wojo is willing to throw people under the bus.  At no point have you proven this.  But we can prove that Buzz was willing to throw just about anybody under the bus to fit his needs.  Whether that be taking away D.J. Newbill's scholarship to make room for Jamil or his best friend, Scott Monarch, being dismissed.

Point being, you don't know what you are talking about.  Or you are conjuring up one hell of a troll job.  The culture under Buzz was pathetic, even when the results were outstanding.  To a man (or woman), every person I have spoken with, whether that be on the team, or a manager on the team, or someone who plays sports and goes to the Al, someone who works in the athletic department, friends who work in the office - every last person - says the difference in culture is night and day.  Wojo has come in and turned turned the whole thing around already.  So stop lying about things you don't know.  Quit creating narratives like Ners.  Wojo goes about his business the right way, and once we get the horses, we'll see the results on the court to boot.  Of that, I have no worries.

[HutchwasClutch]

Wojo is a good man and he is creating the RIGHT CULTURE here at MU.  A damn good one from all accounts that I've heard.  Something we desperately needed after Buzz nearly sunk our entire program in with his constant bullcrap (or do you miss Marquette being plastered all over the front page of the Chicago Tribune because our coach covered up a rape scandal here on campus?).

Your whole post was excellent, but this part was the best, and in essence, my response to TW.  It's just got sickening him character assaninate a good man like Wojo, of which no evidence exists.  

Well done, onepost!

[HutchwasClutch]

The culture under Buzz was pathetic, even when the results were outstanding.  To a man (or woman), every person I have spoken with, whether that be on the team, or a manager on the team, or someone who plays sports and goes to the Al, someone who works in the athletic department, friends who work in the office - every last person - says the difference in culture is night and day.  

There's been no indication since's Buzz's departure that MU made any effort to change his mind, offer him up something to stay, etc.  The above and the other crap under Buzz is clearly why.

[79Warrior]

There's been no indication since's Buzz's departure that MU made any effort to change his mind, offer him up something to stay, etc.  The above and the other crap under Buzz is clearly why.

Onepostellenson is exactly right about Buzz. The athletic department could not stand Buzz and they are thrilled he split. TW is making up plenty of garbage. Pathetic. Him and Ners make this place borderline unreadable.

[jesmu84]

I'm not sure what your relationship is with players on the team.  It seems you have some relationship to Jajuan, even though you've been on this board longer than his time here and you refuse to tell anyone what that relationship is.  Because of you and Ners I try to stay away from any thread that picks up pages and pages of content, so I'm a fews days late.  But I went back and read this post.  Plain and simple, you are lying.  You are literally spewing garbage each thread.

Wojo is a good man and he is creating the RIGHT CULTURE here at MU.  A damn good one from all accounts that I've heard.  Something we desperately needed after Buzz nearly sunk our entire program in with his constant bullcrap (or do you miss Marquette being plastered all over the front page of the Chicago Tribune because our coach covered up a rape scandal here on campus?).  I've already offered up opinions of a current manager who contradicts every single thing you say about our coaches and their relationships with our players.  I'll go further to dispel the notion that Buzz was a caring, genuine man.  I was a manager for Buzz and it was dreadful.  He is an egomaniacal prick who only looked out for himself, and couldn't have been more of an actor when it came to his press conferences.  As Chicos has stated, "he knew when the cameras were on".  Unless you were a Jimmy, DJO, Jae, Vander, Junior caliber player on this team, Buzz had absolutely no one's back (and couldn't help but run a program that CONTINUALLY had problems and stories arise).  Treated fringe players poorly, managers even worse, and wouldn't even acknowledge other sports in the athletic department (as some have also said on this board).  You "claim" Wojo is willing to throw people under the bus.  At no point have you proven this.  But we can prove that Buzz was willing to throw just about anybody under the bus to fit his needs.  Whether that be taking away D.J. Newbill's scholarship to make room for Jamil or his best friend, Scott Monarch, being dismissed.

Point being, you don't know what you are talking about.  Or you are conjuring up one hell of a troll job.  The culture under Buzz was pathetic, even when the results were outstanding.  To a man (or woman), every person I have spoken with, whether that be on the team, or a manager on the team, or someone who plays sports and goes to the Al, someone who works in the athletic department, friends who work in the office - every last person - says the difference in culture is night and day.  Wojo has come in and turned turned the whole thing around already.  So stop lying about things you don't know.  Quit creating narratives like Ners.  Wojo goes about his business the right way, and once we get the horses, we'll see the results on the court to boot.  Of that, I have no worries.

Refreshing, once again, to have the facts of the case

[Anti-Dentite]

Man, this place gets nasty when we suck.

[NersEllenson]

I think it's absolutely fair to say that Deonte was unhappy at MU. Basketball and MU's new head coach certainly play a role in that. Maybe even the primary role. Totally fair.

But, this idea that Wojo "threw Deonte under the bus" is silly.

Deonte no longer thought MU was the best fit for him, so he transferred.

The term phrase "throw Deonte under the bus" is probably not the right cliche to describe the situation.  The issue was this:

Wojo upon his hire told Deonte he was expecting big things from him and for him to be a MAJOR contributor on the team.

The team and Wojo were supportive obviously at the time of the passing of Deonte's Mom.

Where the disconnect occurred is Deonte felt he'd be playing 30 minutes per game, and when his role was drastically less than that - he grew frustrated.  When you combine his frustration over his role/playing time - (basketball) the one thing that he loved in life besides his Mom along with losing his Mom - he was very unhappy.  Furthermore, he and Dawson were very close, and Deonte though John got the shaft pretty good.  So, in Deonte's view of Wojo, he felt he would have a much bigger role and then when his best friend on the team seemingly got the shaft - he lost buy in for Wojo.  Felt the talk of it being a family, etc rang hollow.

Nothing more.  Nothing less.  Sh$t happens.  My frustration with the whole situation has been the callous response a good chunk of posters have had here.  I've read everything from we are better off without him, to he wasn't very good, Wojo will find someone better, etc.  Losing an All Big East freshman that virtually ever color commentator from Kevin O'Neill to Bill Rafferty felt was going to be a star - was a big loss. 

[TeamOh]

The term phrase "throw Deonte under the bus" is probably not the right cliche to describe the situation.  The issue was this:

Wojo upon his hire told Deonte he was expecting big things from him and for him to be a MAJOR contributor on the team.

The team and Wojo were supportive obviously at the time of the passing of Deonte's Mom.

Where the disconnect occurred is Deonte felt he'd be playing 30 minutes per game, and when his role was drastically less than that - he grew frustrated.  When you combine his frustration over his role/playing time - (basketball) the one thing that he loved in life besides his Mom along with losing his Mom - he was very unhappy.  Furthermore, he and Dawson were very close, and Deonte though John got the shaft pretty good.  So, in Deonte's view of Wojo, he felt he would have a much bigger role and then when his best friend on the team seemingly got the shaft - he lost buy in for Wojo.  Felt the talk of it being a family, etc rang hollow.

Nothing more.  Nothing less.  Sh$t happens.  My frustration with the whole situation has been the callous response a good chunk of posters have had here.  I've read everything from we are better off without him, to he wasn't very good, Wojo will find someone better, etc.  Losing an All Big East freshman that virtually ever color commentator from Kevin O'Neill to Bill Rafferty felt was going to be a star - was a big loss. 

Ahh, so when virtually every commentator from O'Neill to Raftery talk about Derrick and how important to the team he is and how much he brings to the table it's just "coach's speak" so to say, but when it's about somebody you like then the they know everything and we should bow and kiss their feet.  Have it both ways, kid.

Par for the course for you.  You make this place entirely unbearable to come to.  So I suppose I should be thanking you for freeing up a ton of my time.  Appreciate it.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The term phrase "throw Deonte under the bus" is probably not the right cliche to describe the situation.  The issue was this:

Wojo upon his hire told Deonte he was expecting big things from him and for him to be a MAJOR contributor on the team.

The team and Wojo were supportive obviously at the time of the passing of Deonte's Mom.

Where the disconnect occurred is Deonte felt he'd be playing 30 minutes per game, and when his role was drastically less than that - he grew frustrated.  When you combine his frustration over his role/playing time - (basketball) the one thing that he loved in life besides his Mom along with losing his Mom - he was very unhappy.  Furthermore, he and Dawson were very close, and Deonte though John got the shaft pretty good.  So, in Deonte's view of Wojo, he felt he would have a much bigger role and then when his best friend on the team seemingly got the shaft - he lost buy in for Wojo.  Felt the talk of it being a family, etc rang hollow.

Nothing more.  Nothing less.  Sh$t happens.  My frustration with the whole situation has been the callous response a good chunk of posters have had here.  I've read everything from we are better off without him, to he wasn't very good, Wojo will find someone better, etc.  Losing an All Big East freshman that virtually ever color commentator from Kevin O'Neill to Bill Rafferty felt was going to be a star - was a big loss. 

Thank you for taking a step back and explaining. This is a point of view that makes sense to me. I don't agree with it, but its much more reasonable than the "threw him under the bus" comments.

[MU82]

The term phrase "throw Deonte under the bus" is probably not the right cliche to describe the situation.  The issue was this:

Wojo upon his hire told Deonte he was expecting big things from him and for him to be a MAJOR contributor on the team.

The team and Wojo were supportive obviously at the time of the passing of Deonte's Mom.

Where the disconnect occurred is Deonte felt he'd be playing 30 minutes per game, and when his role was drastically less than that - he grew frustrated.  When you combine his frustration over his role/playing time - (basketball) the one thing that he loved in life besides his Mom along with losing his Mom - he was very unhappy.  Furthermore, he and Dawson were very close, and Deonte though John got the shaft pretty good.  So, in Deonte's view of Wojo, he felt he would have a much bigger role and then when his best friend on the team seemingly got the shaft - he lost buy in for Wojo.  Felt the talk of it being a family, etc rang hollow.

Nothing more.  Nothing less.  Sh$t happens.  My frustration with the whole situation has been the callous response a good chunk of posters have had here.  I've read everything from we are better off without him, to he wasn't very good, Wojo will find someone better, etc.  Losing an All Big East freshman that virtually ever color commentator from Kevin O'Neill to Bill Rafferty felt was going to be a star - was a big loss. 

Agree with TAMU that this is a more reasoned response than your usual shoot-from-the-hip tripe, your name-calling and your vendettas. You can make some solid points when you aren't just throwing silly stuff out there.

Still ...

I think most of us can agree that Deonte wasn't "all there" right from the opening tip this season. This is completely understandable; I too have suffered the loss of loved ones and had long periods of mourning in which I wasn't quite right.

It certainly is Wojo's job to help players through difficult personal issues. However, Wojo's main job is to give each player a role that will help both the player and the team succeed. Deonte simply didn't play well. He was drifting through games. He was missing assignments. He wasn't rebounding. He wasn't playing defense. He wasn't a force on the low block. He wasn't helping the team.

Buzz didn't play Deonte nearly enough in the first 2/3 of last season, but when Deonte finally did get more of a chance, he earned the right to play more minutes.

Unfortunately, Deonte never earned many minutes this season. If that led to his disconnect with Wojo, oh well, that happens in sports. I'm guessing that it isn't the only thing that led to him leaving.

As to Deonte not being happy that his buddy Dawson was treated "unfairly," well, life is tough. Dawson is a Big South player, nothing more. He clearly was the ninth-best player on a nine-man team that needed maximum effort and performance from every player to win any game. If Wojo had thought, "I'd better give Dawson a few minutes to keep Deonte happy," that would have been horrendous coaching. I can't think of any D1 coach -- any successful one, anyway -- who would have done that.

I wish Deonte had stayed, and maybe Wojo could have communicated better or done some other things that would have led to Deonte staying-- or at least made leaving a more difficult decision. I'm not one of those saying, "Good riddance," or "We're better without him." I'm saying, "This stuff happens in college basketball." There are hundreds of transfers a year; some have benefited us (most recently, Fischer), some haven't.

It's time to move on. Nothing we debate here will bring Deonte back. I am very high on the future of Marquette basketball.

[tower912]

Wojo told Deonte he was going to be a big part of the team this season.   Deonte feels he didn't get what he was expecting from Wojo.    Did Wojo get what he was expecting from Deonte?

[NersEllenson]

Ahh, so when virtually every commentator from O'Neill to Raftery Dickie Simpkins to Dickie Simpkins talk about Derrick and how important to the team he is and how much he brings to the table it's just "coach's speak" so to say, but when it's about somebody you like then the they know everything and we should bow and kiss their feet.  Have it both ways, kid.

Par for the course for you.  You make this place entirely unbearable to come to.  So I suppose I should be thanking you for freeing up a ton of my time.  Appreciate it.

Fixed for you.

And you are welcome for freeing up your time, kid.  Though you'll be missed - because what this board needs more than anything else is need another guy here to tell us how much Derrick Wilson "brings to the table." 

[MerrittsMustache]

Wojo told Deonte he was going to be a big part of the team this season.   Deonte feels he didn't get what he was expecting from Wojo.    Did Wojo get what he was expecting from Deonte?

No, he didn't.

Despite some posters' hypotheticals that they present as facts, we'll likely never know if Deonte was distracted, wanted to leave Milwaukee and never really got into the flow this season as a result or if he grew disenchanted with Wojo because he expected to play a bigger role early in the season. It's possible that if he was given 30 minutes/game, he would have been happy and stayed. It's also very possible that no amount of PT was going to keep him in Milwaukee.

As it turned out, he transferred and hopefully it will be for the best - he gets out of Milwaukee and he should, in theory, get more PT.

[Lighthouse 84]

Ners, serious questions for you, and your answer can't be it's because he didn't get enough time on the court during games.

When Deonte played this year for MU, how did he play?  Was he engaged?  Did he play good D or did he miss his assignments?  Did he box out and rebound well? If you had to grade his performance for the time he did play, what would you give him?

My point is that I don't doubt when Wojo came to Marquette, he saw Deonte as a first team Big East freshman last year and that he needed him to produce this year. I'm betting that Wojo told him he's going to be a major part of the team.  But for whatever reason, probably because of his Mother's passing, Deonte's play wasn't what Wojo anticipated it should be.  It wasn't what the rest of the coaching staff thought they were getting before the season started.  So when DB played, and he missed his defensive assignments, didn't play a factor on the boards and otherwise looked lost at times, he didn't get as much run. 

Your point on DB seems to be, because Wojo told him he'd be a big part of this team, Wojo should have played him regardless of his performance on the court.  Do you honestly feel that Deonte then could coast, or should be able to do whatever he wanted (including not play up to his potential) and still get the time on the court he was supposedly promised?

If your answers to the questions are that you think Deonte Burton was outstanding when he played this year, that he earned the right to be on the court a lot more, not because of his potential, because of how he played this year, and therefore Wojo lied to him, you're more delusional than I thought.