Wojo Post Game (Comments on JJJ DNP)

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Yes, when you look at Duane and JJJ side by side - you realize for the season, their body of work is quite similar.  

As Texas Western said:  JJJ is a free spirit, happy go lucky type.  Duane is a more buttoned down, serious type.  Much like Wojo.  Wojo is a corporate type.  Deonte Burton?  Also a fairly laid back kid.  Dawson?  Again, a more laid back type of personality.  This has been my point about Wojo - he was a fire and brimstone, gritty, lunch pail type of guy - can he adapt to those players who aren't of the same ilk as him?  There are many guys who have a more serene and cerebral type of approach to the game that are very good - you don't have to be a floor slapping, manic, uber intense player to be good (although for Wojo that is what it required of him to be able to play at the high major level as he didn't have the talent to get by on anything other than sheer grit and determination.)  Look how D-Wade played the game.  Very mellow.  Paul George.  Jimmy Butler.

People can say Wojo dealt with all kinds of personality types at Duke, elite talent etc. - all true - yet he was NOT the head coach, nor did he make playing time decisions, as he does now.

Having said all of this, I believe Wojo can and likely will be a very good coach at MU.  I don't doubt his X and O's knowledge at all.  Recruited a good first class.  Just slightly concerned with how he'll coach guys not of the same ilk as him.  Now, when you recruit the kids yourself, you identified traits within those players that you liked - and therefore they fit your mold.  Wojo is having to coach guys he didn't recruit - other than Sandy.

Again, I think you're doing a lot of pysch work for a relatively simple answer:

#1 The kid wasn't performing like the coach wanted, so he got benched.
#2 If he has a good week of practice, he'll get to play.
#3 If he plays well, he'll get more minutes.
END.

You don't need to construct advanced narratives. This type of stuff is usually pretty simple.

He's a kid, and its entirely believable that he lost focus. It's okay. He's still on the team, and I hope he shows Wojo what he is made of.

Put it this way: If JJJ comes back and has a few good games in a row, does it mean Wojo magically figured out how to manage these free spirits? Or is it likely that JJJ simple refocused and earned some PT?

[NersEllenson]

Again, I think you're doing a lot of pysch work for a relatively simple answer:

#1 The kid wasn't performing like the coach wanted, so he got benched.
#2 If he has a good week of practice, he'll get to play.
#3 If he plays well, he'll get more minutes.
END.

You don't need to construct advanced narratives. This type of stuff is usually pretty simple.

He's a kid, and its entirely believable that he lost focus. It's okay. He's still on the team, and I hope he shows Wojo what he is made of.

Put it this way: If JJJ comes back and has a few good games in a row, does it mean Wojo magically figured out how to manage these free spirits? Or is it likely that JJJ simple refocused and earned some PT?

If JJJ comes back and has a few good games, does it mean that Wojo was wrong to bench him for an entire game, that we had a legit chance of winning?

I simply don't view benching a guy for a whole game as a mature decision when the player didn't break a team rule, isn't suspended, your team is already short handed, and you lament your team being fatigued.  You can tell the player going into the game, "I didn't like your approach in practice these past few days at all - and as a result I'm going to bench you for the first half - but get out their and kick a$$ in the second half."

Playing head games with players is a very dangerous and slippery slope.  And benching a kid like JJJ midway through conference play is playing mindgames.  So, if JJJ gets to play next game, again, is he not going to be tight as hell going out there afraid to screw up knowing that he got pulled against Creighton, benched the next game against X?  You erode a players confidence when you play mind games and have him on a short leash - it's one thing to screw up making effort and aggressive plays - it's different if your mistakes are those of a lazy variety.

[brewcity77]

Honestly, I think a half game suspension is weak. Buzz did it a few times and while it sometimes worked to our advantage (WVU especially) it felt like a weak suspension. It's basically saying "I want to punish you, but not so much that I punish myself."

I'm upset that JJJ was benched for the Xavier game. I do think him being available might have been the difference in winning and losing. But I'm NOT mad at the coach, I'm mad at the player. Don't do stupid and lazy things and you'll play. I really think it's that simple.

Sitting him for a half is like grounding a kid but letting them still play Xbox. If you're going to punish them, punish them. Half measures rarely work.

[real chili 83]

Playing head games with players is a very dangerous and slippery slope.  And benching a kid like JJJ midway through conference play is playing mindgames.  So, if JJJ gets to play next game, again, is he not going to be tight as hell going out there afraid to screw up knowing that he got pulled against Creighton, benched the next game against X?  You erode a players confidence when you play mind games and have him on a short leash - it's one thing to screw up making effort and aggressive plays - it's different if your mistakes are those of a lazy variety.

Ners, along with being a former high school player, and a former team manager, you didn't tell us that you are a former sports psychologist.

I sure wish Wojo had some good training before he became a head coach.  I don't think he was ever a team manager.  Or an assistant to an assistant coach.  

Welcome back.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If JJJ comes back and has a few good games, does it mean that Wojo was wrong to bench him for an entire game, that we had a legit chance of winning?

I simply don't view benching a guy for a whole game as a mature decision when the player didn't break a team rule, isn't suspended, your team is already short handed, and you lament your team being fatigued.  You can tell the player going into the game, "I didn't like your approach in practice these past few days at all - and as a result I'm going to bench you for the first half - but get out their and kick a$$ in the second half."

Playing head games with players is a very dangerous and slippery slope.  And benching a kid like JJJ midway through conference play is playing mindgames.  So, if JJJ gets to play next game, again, is he not going to be tight as hell going out there afraid to screw up knowing that he got pulled against Creighton, benched the next game against X?  You erode a players confidence when you play mind games and have him on a short leash - it's one thing to screw up making effort and aggressive plays - it's different if your mistakes are those of a lazy variety.

I don't think this is a mind game at all. I think it's clear as day:
- Practice hard and focus, and you'll play.
- Don't practice hard, and you'll be benched. 

It's a culture. This isn't arbitrary. This isn't an accident.

Now, it's up to Wojo to communicate with JJJ and help him refocus this week. If JJJ comes back and has a great couple of weeks of practices, then it was worth it, yes.

[Texas Western]

If JJJ comes back and has a few good games, does it mean that Wojo was wrong to bench him for an entire game, that we had a legit chance of winning?

I simply don't view benching a guy for a whole game as a mature decision when the player didn't break a team rule, isn't suspended, your team is already short handed, and you lament your team being fatigued.  You can tell the player going into the game, "I didn't like your approach in practice these past few days at all - and as a result I'm going to bench you for the first half - but get out their and kick a$$ in the second half."

Playing head games with players is a very dangerous and slippery slope.  And benching a kid like JJJ midway through conference play is playing mindgames.  So, if JJJ gets to play next game, again, is he not going to be tight as hell going out there afraid to screw up knowing that he got pulled against Creighton, benched the next game against X?  You erode a players confidence when you play mind games and have him on a short leash - it's one thing to screw up making effort and aggressive plays - it's different if your mistakes are those of a lazy variety.

These are excellent points. I agree wholeheartedly that Wojo's action are playing mindgames. This kid has constantly worked hard and hustled. No one has ever said he hasn't . People on this board are calling him lazy but that is not the case at all.

I see it this way, JJJ was a top 30 in High School because he has some incredible skills driving the ball transition short range floaters etc. He has now been exposed in college, as many have pointed out because of the hitch in his shot. So from 15 feet out he is not a factor. He does have an excellent free throw motion and rate so he is not a lost cause at all. The coaches should be working with and embellishing all the good things he does .  Then work with him to improve ;the other areas of the game. It is up to the coaches to be grown ups and understand all kids are not the same personalities. Yes it is far easier for Wojo to relate to Derrick and it is not just because he is a lunch bucket player. It is because  the way  Derrick comportes himself , he could easily have been a NARP at  Duke with his background (son of military, attended a top 5 prep school etc). Similarly , Duane is very serious, son of a coach. On the other hand JJJ is a well documented goofy, out there in a clean cut way (eg obsesses about food choices) but genuinely nice kid who loves basketball and works hard at it. It is easy for people to put it all on JJJ but that is the easy way out. I put it on the entire coaching staff, There needs to be at least one of those guys to take this kid under his wing and show him the way.  Could make a huge difference in our season. At the end that is what I care the most about.

[jesmu84]

If JJJ comes back and has a few good games, does it mean that Wojo was wrong to bench him for an entire game, that we had a legit chance of winning?

I simply don't view benching a guy for a whole game as a mature decision when the player didn't break a team rule, isn't suspended, your team is already short handed, and you lament your team being fatigued.  You can tell the player going into the game, "I didn't like your approach in practice these past few days at all - and as a result I'm going to bench you for the first half - but get out their and kick a$$ in the second half."

Playing head games with players is a very dangerous and slippery slope.  And benching a kid like JJJ midway through conference play is playing mindgames.  So, if JJJ gets to play next game, again, is he not going to be tight as hell going out there afraid to screw up knowing that he got pulled against Creighton, benched the next game against X?  You erode a players confidence when you play mind games and have him on a short leash - it's one thing to screw up making effort and aggressive plays - it's different if your mistakes are those of a lazy variety.

Your assumption in all this is little or no communication between Wojo and JJJ or at least Wojo and the team as a whole. Especially in regards to setting up expectations and consequences. Do you 100% know that your assumptions are fact? Otherwise, your perspective falls apart. As does everyone else here. No one knows what goes on out of the public eye.

[jesmu84]

These are excellent points. I agree wholeheartedly that Wojo's action are playing mindgames. This kid has constantly worked hard and hustled. No one has ever said he hasn't . People on this board are calling him lazy but that is not the case at all.

I see it this way, JJJ was a top 30 in High School because he has some incredible skills driving the ball transition short range floaters etc. He has now been exposed in college, as many have pointed out because of the hitch in his shot. So from 15 feet out he is not a factor. He does have an excellent free throw motion and rate so he is not a lost cause at all. The coaches should be working with and embellishing all the good things he does .  Then work with him to improve ;the other areas of the game. It is up to the coaches to be grown ups and understand all kids are not the same personalities. Yes it is far easier for Wojo to relate to Derrick and it is not just because he is a lunch bucket player. It is because  the way  Derrick comportes himself , he could easily have been a NARP at  Duke with his background (son of military, attended a top 5 prep school etc). Similarly , Duane is very serious, son of a coach. On the other hand JJJ is a well documented goofy, out there in a clean cut way (eg obsesses about food choices) but genuinely nice kid who loves basketball and works hard at it. It is easy for people to put it all on JJJ but that is the easy way out. I put it on the entire coaching staff, There needs to be at least one of those guys to take this kid under his wing and show him the way.  Could make a huge difference in our season. At the end that is what I care the most about.

What has been said is that Wojo didn't like the practice JJJ had leading up to the game. We don't know exactly what that means. But isn't that enough?

[Lennys Tap]

I see it this way, JJJ was a top 30 in High School because he has some incredible skills driving the ball transition short range floaters etc. He has now been exposed in college, as many have pointed out because of the hitch in his shot. So from 15 feet out he is not a factor. He does have an excellent free throw motion and rate so he is not a lost cause at all. The coaches should be working with and embellishing all the good things he does .  Then work with him to improve ;the other areas of the game. It is up to the coaches to be grown ups and understand all kids are not the same personalities. Yes it is far easier for Wojo to relate to Derrick and it is not just because he is a lunch bucket player. It is because  the way  Derrick comportes himself , he could easily have been a NARP at  Duke with his background (son of military, attended a top 5 prep school etc). Similarly , Duane is very serious, son of a coach. On the other hand JJJ is a well documented goofy, out there in a clean cut way (eg obsesses about food choices) but genuinely nice kid who loves basketball and works hard at it. It is easy for people to put it all on JJJ but that is the easy way out. I put it on the entire coaching staff, There needs to be at least one of those guys to take this kid under his wing and show him the way.  Could make a huge difference in our season. At the end that is what I care the most about.

I see it this way. High school is over. His high school ranking (which you overstate, but no matter) is now beside the point. He was getting big minutes in conference games even though he was playing poorly - basically an abysmal shooting turnover machine. Then one of the first things he does upon entering the Creighton game is throw up a contested brick of a three early in the shot clock. Last year Ners probably stated 50 times here that Dawson should play over Derrick because Derrick was 1 for 14 from three. Trust me, 1 of 14 over 32 games hurts a team a lot less than 7 of 40 over 16. Everything (numbers, eye test, coaches, etc.) screams don't shoot from distance unless you're wide open with no time on the shot clock but that doesn't stop JJJ. He wants his so he's jackin' 3s. Well, this isn't high school or AAU ball. Guards who don't take care of the ball and insist on shooting shots they can't make lose minutes. When they sulk about what their crappy play earned them they can lose games, a season or a career. JJJ's MU experience is at a tipping point because he put it there. He can man up and regain the trust that he's squandered with two separate coaching staffs at MU or he can hit the bricks. Hope for the former but it's up to him.

[Texas Western]

I see it this way. High school is over. His high school ranking (which you overstate, but no matter) is now beside the point. He was getting big minutes in conference games even though he was playing poorly - basically an abysmal shooting turnover machine. Then one of the first things he does upon entering the Creighton game is throw up a contested brick of a three early in the shot clock. Last year Ners probably stated 50 times here that Dawson should play over Derrick because Derrick was 1 for 14 from three. Trust me, 1 of 14 over 32 games hurts a team a lot less than 7 of 40 over 16. Everything (numbers, eye test, coaches, etc.) screams don't shoot from distance unless you're wide open with no time on the shot clock but that doesn't stop JJJ. He wants his so he's jackin' 3s. Well, this isn't high school or AAU ball. Guards who don't take care of the ball and insist on shooting shots they can't make lose minutes. When they sulk about what their crappy play earned them they can lose games, a season or a career. JJJ's MU experience is at a tipping point because he put it there. He can man up and regain the trust that he's squandered with two separate coaching staffs at MU or he can hit the bricks. Hope for the former but it's up to him.

We will find out Wednesday night.

[GGGG]

These are excellent points. I agree wholeheartedly that Wojo's action are playing mindgames. This kid has constantly worked hard and hustled. No one has ever said he hasn't . People on this board are calling him lazy but that is not the case at all.

How do you know he "has constantly worked hard and hustled?"

[brewcity77]

How do you know he "has constantly worked hard and hustled?"

Because "No one has ever said he hasn't."

Well...except for Wojo. You know...2 days ago.

[Texas Western]

How do you know he "has constantly worked hard and hustled?"

Every game he is hustling is clear for everyone to see. Coaches have consistently said he has worked hard in practice.

Working hard of course does not necessarily mean not making boneheaded plays. Coach said benched because he didn't play good enough in practice. It is obvious by the coaches action the young man is making the same mistakes in practice he is making in games.

Conclusion practice the way the coaches want you to practice. Otherwise we are sunk for the year.
 

[jesmu84]

Every game he is hustling is clear for everyone to see. Coaches have consistently said he has worked hard in practice.

Working hard of course does not necessarily mean not making boneheaded plays. Coach said benched because he didn't play good enough in practice. It is obvious by the coaches action the young man is making the same mistakes in practice he is making in games.

Conclusion practice the way the coaches want you to practice. Otherwise we are sunk for the year.
 

Except for Wojo's comments after the game, you mean.

[Lennys Tap]

Every game he is hustling is clear for everyone to see. Coaches have consistently said he has worked hard in practice.

Working hard

of course does not necessarily mean not making boneheaded plays. Coach said benched because he didn't play good enough in practice. It is obvious by the coaches action the young man is making the same mistakes in practice he is making in games.

Conclusion practice the way the coaches want you to practice. Otherwise we are sunk for the year.
 

As Willie would say, you see but do not observe. To add a point, you hear but do not listen. The chance that JJJ's effort/attitude in practice (or in general) wasn't the reason for his DNP vs Xavier? Zero.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TW and Ners, you are making things up. I know you think you are supporting JjJ, but your actually painting him to be someone who isn't self aware, pouts when he doesn't get his way, and someone who is unable to communicate. You are also implying that Wojo is bad at his job and plays mindgames with his players. Actually, you aren't implying that, you are directly saying it. You are also belittling the hard work that the other players on the team.

If you have any respect for our team, stop making up stories about things you know nothing about.

That goes for people on the other side of the argument. None of us know (or maybe a very select few who aren't sharing know) what happened in practice that caused Wojo to sit JjJ. It's not fair of us to jump to the conclusion that JjJ is slacking off.

It's one thing to speculate about why a player might have been benched. Its another to say "Wojo is playing mindgames with JjJ" or "JjJ goofed off in practice" when no one here knows jack sh*t. I know I have no idea why JjJ was benched. If someone else here wants to correct me, I'll happily listen.

[NersEllenson]

I see it this way. High school is over. His high school ranking (which you overstate, but no matter) is now beside the point. He was getting big minutes in conference games even though he was playing poorly - basically an abysmal shooting turnover machine. Then one of the first things he does upon entering the Creighton game is throw up a contested brick of a three early in the shot clock. Last year Ners probably stated 50 times here that Dawson should play over Derrick because Derrick was 1 for 14 from three. Trust me, 1 of 14 over 32 games hurts a team a lot less than 7 of 40 over 16. Everything (numbers, eye test, coaches, etc.) screams don't shoot from distance unless you're wide open with no time on the shot clock but that doesn't stop JJJ. He wants his so he's jackin' 3s. Well, this isn't high school or AAU ball. Guards who don't take care of the ball and insist on shooting shots they can't make lose minutes. When they sulk about what their crappy play earned them they can lose games, a season or a career. JJJ's MU experience is at a tipping point because he put it there. He can man up and regain the trust that he's squandered with two separate coaching staffs at MU or he can hit the bricks. Hope for the former but it's up to him.

Disagree with most of this Lenny.  Wojo has said he wants guys to be aggressive, take good shots when they present themselves...regardless of where they are at in the shot clock.  A good shot, is a good shot. Don't see JJJ as being a player "trying to get his."   JJJ has shot many "good" 3's that were good looks/shots - unfortunately they aren't going in at a high rate.  Players play even worse when they feel they are one/maybe two missed shots or one turnover away from being yanked.

JJJ shoots well from the FT Line.  Yes he has a quirky form, but that by no means is reflective of not being a good shooter.  It's a confidence thing at this point with JJJ.  And as I said, when you don't know if the coach has your back and will see you through your mistakes/missed shots it makes it harder to perform.

Now I know you and some of the others would rather a guy be a complete non-factor on the floor, and essentially contribute nothing other than not turning the ball over, play extremely safe, not shoot outside of 2 feet generally - yet that type of play/player is NOT winning basketball.  You can't have a team full of passive players. 

I simply want a guy with a much higher upside, and more potential to have a longer leash than a guy who has zero upside/potential.

[brewcity77]

Upside is good, but production is better. JJJ will get more minutes if he can prove he can capitalize on his potential, not because his high school rating says it exists. I have high hopes for him, but his play of late hasn't warranted more. Hopefully this motivates him to find that next level.

[jsglow]

TW and Ners, you are making things up. I know you think you are supporting JjJ, but your actually painting him to be someone who isn't self aware, pouts when he doesn't get his way, and someone who is unable to communicate. You are also implying that Wojo is bad at his job and plays mindgames with his players. Actually, you aren't implying that, you are directly saying it. You are also belittling the hard work that the other players on the team.

If you have any respect for our team, stop making up stories about things you know nothing about.

That goes for people on the other side of the argument. None of us know (or maybe a very select few who aren't sharing know) what happened in practice that caused Wojo to sit JjJ. It's not fair of us to jump to the conclusion that JjJ is slacking off.

It's one thing to speculate about why a player might have been benched. Its another to say "Wojo is playing mindgames with JjJ" or "JjJ goofed off in practice" when no one here knows jack sh*t. I know I have no idea why JjJ was benched. If someone else here wants to correct me, I'll happily listen.

I was reading this thread swearing to myself the exact same thing until I came across this post.  Thank you.  As for the rest of you....

[Lighthouse 84]

I was reading this thread swearing to myself the exact same thing until I came across this post.  Thank you.  As for the rest of you....

I also was thinking this as I read through this thread.  Are we to believe JjJ is that much of a pu$$y that he's now going to transfer over being benched one game?  Because of something he did in practice?  I don't know JjJ (other than what I see during games) but I would guess the opposite.  I think JjJ takes this opportunity to bust his ass in every practice from here on and he gets rewarded. Mind game by WOJO? No, just a kick in the ass to tell JjJ and the rest of the team that everyone is treated equally and everyone better bring it everyday.  I'm going to guess that JjJ hasn't put his tail between his legs and started looking for a place to transfer and instead has taken the opposite approach, showing WOJO and everyone else how hard of a worker he'll be for the rest of the season.  As a result, he get's back in the rotation.  If I'm wrong, we'll play 7.

[GGGG]

Every game he is hustling is clear for everyone to see. Coaches have consistently said he has worked hard in practice.

Working hard of course does not necessarily mean not making boneheaded plays. Coach said benched because he didn't play good enough in practice. It is obvious by the coaches action the young man is making the same mistakes in practice he is making in games.

Conclusion practice the way the coaches want you to practice. Otherwise we are sunk for the year.

I agree with your conclusion.  Isn't that what we are talking about here?

Why do we have to construct yet more false narratives about Duane being "buttoned down" and JJJ being "happy go lucky," and since Wojo is more like Duane he gets more playing time.

Both statistically, and dare I say the vaunted "eye test," Duane seems like the better player.  And if Duane practices harder, I can see why he gets more playing time than JJJ.

[NersEllenson]

I agree with your conclusion.  Isn't that what we are talking about here?

Why do we have to construct yet more false narratives about Duane being "buttoned down" and JJJ being "happy go lucky," and since Wojo is more like Duane he gets more playing time.

Both statistically, and dare I say the vaunted "eye test," Duane seems like the better player.  And if Duane practices harder, I can see why he gets more playing time than JJJ.

It's also a false narrative to suggest Duane practices harder.  What isn't false is body language.  Everyone and their mother knows Wojo was a spaz on the court, and a portrait of intensity.  Have you never heard the expression "this team is a reflection of its head coach?"  It isn't absurd in any way, shape or form to think Wojo has/will have a hard time connecting with more laid back and happy go lucky types - JJJ, Burton, Dawson - while connecting well/preferring more serious/hardcore types - Duane.

With 3 open scholarships, and possibly a 4th given the Nick situation, really not sure it is wise for Wojo to being playing mind games with one of his most talented underclassmen.  Soon it could be 5 open scholarships.  Trust the process?? 

[GGGG]

It's also a false narrative to suggest Duane practices harder. 

It is?  How come he hasn't been suspended then?

It's also a false narrative to suggest Duane practices harder.  What isn't false is body language.  Everyone and their mother knows Wojo was a spaz on the court, and a portrait of intensity.  Have you never heard the expression "this team is a reflection of its head coach?"  It isn't absurd in any way, shape or form to think Wojo has/will have a hard time connecting with more laid back and happy go lucky types - JJJ, Burton, Dawson - while connecting well/preferring more serious/hardcore types - Duane.

I don't think Duane is anything like Wojo was on the court.  Would you call him a "spaz" and a "portrait of intensity?"  He actually seems pretty non-plussed out there.

With 3 open scholarships, and possibly a 4th given the Nick situation, really not sure it is wise for Wojo to being playing mind games with one of his most talented underclassmen.  Soon it could be 5 open scholarships.  Trust the process?? 

He's not playing "mind-games."  As others have pointed out, it seems very straight-forward why JJJ sat last game. 

And he shouldn't set the bar lower just to make him happy.  That is when you get into trouble.

[tower912]

 

And he shouldn't set the bar lower just to make him happy.  That is when you get into trouble.

See: Mayo, Todd.   

[Lennys Tap]

That goes for people on the other side of the argument. None of us know (or maybe a very select few who aren't sharing know) what happened in practice that caused Wojo to sit JjJ. It's not fair of us to jump to the conclusion that JjJ is slacking off.

It's one thing to speculate about why a player might have been benched. Its another to say "Wojo is playing mindgames with JjJ" or "JjJ goofed off in practice" when no one here knows jack sh*t. I know I have no idea why JjJ was benched. If someone else here wants to correct me, I'll happily listen.

Wojo said JJJ wasn't "bringin' it" every day at practice. He said that's unacceptable. And results in being benched. So if you listened you know exactly why he was benched. Do you want a list of stuff? That's not gonna happen. His effort/attitude wasn't where it needed to be. If it changes, he plays. If not, he sits. Simple.