With John Dawson leaving

[reinko]

I guess we will just have to see how either of them are once they go elsewhere.  Maybe that will settle the playing time debate once and for all.

Sure it will.  See Newbill, DJ.

[GGGG]

Sure it will.  See Newbill, DJ.

At this point, I am simply hoping to get a year's break from the dumb debate.  Just biding time. 

[marquette20]

Either way Dawson, cannot play till next Winter. This is the same NCAA that would not let Jameel McKay play till winter even though he was gone right after madness. Only question is will the NCAA give Dawson 2.5 years or 1.5 years.

[reinko]

At this point, I am simply hoping to get a year's break from the dumb debate.  Just biding time. 

[brandx]

I know one should have the patience of a Grandmother, especially when practicing, traveling, catching flights, all while taking a full class load and working hard to sit on the bench and never even take your warmup off behind the future Lottery Pick and Wooden Award Watch Point Guard #12.. Or wait to get garbage time next year with a Top 5 class coming in.............. Tell me more about it...

That you can only make an argument using hyperbole says everything about your level of thought.

[NersEllenson]

That you can only make an argument using hyperbole says everything about your level of thought.

So should we say the same about Buzz and Wojo with regard to their takes on Derrick as being, "Terrific player,"  "Elite, game changing?"

Just sayin'   

[bilsu]

McKay never played a minute and had to sit out the first semester. Iowa St. even filed an appeal, which they lost. Therefore Dawson was screwed whether he played 5 minutes or not. Besides that it is Dawson and Burton that are screwing themselves by transferring mid-season. They are also screwing the team they are leaving by not waiting to end of second semester.

[CTWarrior]

I realize that patience is a virtue not possessed by most young men, but it seems to me that mid-year transfers are a bad deal for the student athlete.  Sure you resume playing a half-season sooner, but you lose a full year of eligibility.  If you finished this season (particularly Burton, who would have gotten plenty of PT), you would have to sit out a year at your next stop, but you would still have two full seasons of eligibility left, rather than 1 and 1/2.  Not only that, if you keep up with your class work, you can graduate with a full year's eligibility left, which would allow you to either stay put if you're happy, move on to the pros or transfer again to the best situation possible.

[wadesworld]

McKay never played a minute and had to sit out the first semester. Iowa St. even filed an appeal, which they lost. Therefore Dawson was screwed whether he played 5 minutes or not. Besides that it is Dawson and Burton that are screwing themselves by transferring mid-season. They are also screwing the team they are leaving by not waiting to end of second semester.

Good point.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So should we say the same about Buzz and Wojo with regard to their takes on Derrick as being, "Terrific player,"  "Elite, game changing?"

Just sayin'   

So should we sat the same about Davante and Travis with regard to their takes on Dawson as being, "the best pg on the team" and "a guy who can really help us?"

Just saying  

You are using a double standard. When it benefits your argument it's gospel truth. When it doesn't, it's credibility destroying lies. When really it's all coach speak.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I realize that patience is a virtue not possessed by most young men, but it seems to me that mid-year transfers are a bad deal for the student athlete.  Sure you resume playing a half-season sooner, but you lose a full year of eligibility.  If you finished this season (particularly Burton, who would have gotten plenty of PT), you would have to sit out a year at your next stop, but you would still have two full seasons of eligibility left, rather than 1 and 1/2.  Not only that, if you keep up with your class work, you can graduate with a full year's eligibility left, which would allow you to either stay put if you're happy, move on to the pros or transfer again to the best situation possible.

This had made me wonder as well. Dawson, it makes sense, he's not getting any playing time. Burton was getting double digit minutes. Wojo also proved that he would get more when he was playing well. His best game was against Michigan State and he played starters minutes in that one. A mid season transfer seems like a steep price. Maybe there were more issues than playing time

[NersEllenson]

So should we sat the same about Davante and Travis with regard to their takes on Dawson as being, "the best pg on the team" and "a guy who can really help us?"

Just saying  

You are using a double standard. When it benefits your argument it's gospel truth. When it doesn't, it's credibility destroying lies. When really it's all coach speak.

Except in one case we have plenty of evidence to know it is coach speak.  The other?  Well, that remains a mystery.  As for Davante, not sure what or why he'd feel compelled to tell less than the truth when asked last year at media day...

[jsglow]

I realize that patience is a virtue not possessed by most young men, but it seems to me that mid-year transfers are a bad deal for the student athlete.  Sure you resume playing a half-season sooner, but you lose a full year of eligibility.  If you finished this season (particularly Burton, who would have gotten plenty of PT), you would have to sit out a year at your next stop, but you would still have two full seasons of eligibility left, rather than 1 and 1/2.  Not only that, if you keep up with your class work, you can graduate with a full year's eligibility left, which would allow you to either stay put if you're happy, move on to the pros or transfer again to the best situation possible.

+1.  I had not considered the absolute elimination of the graduate transfer option at the end of one's eligibility.  Great point CT.

[GooooMarquette]

I realize that patience is a virtue not possessed by most young men, but it seems to me that mid-year transfers are a bad deal for the student athlete.  Sure you resume playing a half-season sooner, but you lose a full year of eligibility.  If you finished this season (particularly Burton, who would have gotten plenty of PT), you would have to sit out a year at your next stop, but you would still have two full seasons of eligibility left, rather than 1 and 1/2.  Not only that, if you keep up with your class work, you can graduate with a full year's eligibility left, which would allow you to either stay put if you're happy, move on to the pros or transfer again to the best situation possible.

I wondered about this as well.  Stinks for the player, who loses a full year of eligibility.  Stinks for the team, which now has a ridiculously short bench just in time for the conference season.  Because of that, mid-season transfers always seem desperate - where you have a kid in his first semester away from home who gets really homesick, toxic player-coach interactions, etc.  For the transfers that are simply due to a lack of playing time or difference in philosophies, it seems like it'd be better for all parties involved to complete the season.  

Both John and Deonte seem like good, level headed kids, so the timing of the transfers is the most surprising thing to me.

[rocky_warrior]

I'm so sick of reading this misinformation.  Players who transfer after 1.5 years can still have two years of eligibility!

see here
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=45613.msg674987#msg674987

[GooooMarquette]

I'm so sick of reading this misinformation.  Players who transfer after 1.5 years can still have two years of eligibility!

see here
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=45613.msg674987#msg674987

Technically true.  But if a guy is frustrated because he isn't getting playing time now, how likely do you think it is that he'll want to wait 23 months until his next game?

And even in the unlikely event that they do wait that long, they still end up with 3 1/2 years instead of 4.  Bet you $100 that both John and Deonte are playing just over a year from now....

[rocky_warrior]

No bet, just want people to realize the mid year transfers still have an option for another full year...and if they don't take that option it's their own fault.  The NCAA is completely fair in this.

[GooooMarquette]

No bet, just want people to realize the mid year transfers still have an option for another full year...and if they don't take that option it's their own fault.  The NCAA is completely fair in this.

Fair enough.  Still highlights my point that mid-year transfers smack of desperation or impulsiveness.  Your options:

1.  Transfer now and play again asap (Dec. 2015) - get 3 seasons of playing.
2.  Transfer now and wait until Nov. 2016 to play again - get 3 1/2 seasons of playing, but with nearly two years between games.
3.  Transfer after the season and wait until Nov. 2016 to play again - get 4 full seasons, and still play for new team as soon as you would under #2.

Option 3 seems like the obvious choice if it's simply a playing time issue.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Except in one case we have plenty of evidence to know it is coach speak.  The other?  Well, that remains a mystery.  As for Davante, not sure what or why he'd feel compelled to tell less than the truth when asked last year at media day...

We have plenty of evidence for both. One is good enough to get off the bench, the other isn't. No mystery. Davante didn't lie, he just tried to build up his friend like any good teammate would do.

Coach speak.

[jsglow]

No bet, just want people to realize the mid year transfers still have an option for another full year...and if they don't take that option it's their own fault.  The NCAA is completely fair in this.

I'll agree that the NCAA is completely fair and that a player can protect that full year of eligibility.  But the practical reality is that few if any actually do that.  Not pinning this on the NCAA.  Simply suggesting that a mid-year transfer typically forfeits significant eligibility given the nature of the calendar.  I think most here now understand the technical rule after all the discussion the last 2 days.

[Nukem2]

I'll agree that the NCAA is completely fair and that a player can protect that full year of eligibility.  But the practical reality is that few if any actually do that.  Not pinning this on the NCAA.  Simply suggesting that a mid-year transfer typically forfeits significant eligibility given the nature of the calendar.  I think most here now understand the technical rule after all the discussion the last 2 days.

Also, a school may not want to tie up a scholie for 1 1/2 years so the kid can get an extra semester....