Deonte's departure mildly surprising at best

[HutchwasClutch]

A Coach K protege inheriting a kid who can't/won't play defense, won't pass the ball on offense, seriously, this was a square peg trying to be jammed in a round hole.  Another flawed Buzz recruit, talent, yes, obvious flaws in their game, yes even more- emphatically.

The purging of the attitudes and crap Buzz was willing to bring in continues.    Good for Wojo.  

The only reason I'm mildly surprise is his Milwaukee roots and that when Buzz left, he was one of the guys who left no doubt quickly he was staying at MU.

[wildbill sb]

I honestly cannot find fault with Buzz for recruiting Deonte.  Lots of offensive promise, and a defensive challenge any teacher/coach would love to work with.  Just didn't happen last year, nor again this year, as well as the wrenching loss to Deonte's family to compound the problems.  Don't put it on Buzz any more than on Wojo.

[HutchwasClutch]

I honestly cannot find fault with Buzz for recruiting Deonte.  Lots of offensive promise, and a defensive challenge any teacher/coach would love to work with.  Just didn't happen last year, nor again this year, as well as the wrenching loss to Deonte's family to compound the problems.  Don't put it on Buzz any more than on Wojo.

Burton's body language and effort on D is what was disturbing and why I think many coaches wouldn't have taken him.   I don't think he had any interest in playing much D except slapping at the ball.   It's one thing if a kid is lacking on defense, but is willing to work at it and wants to be good on that end of the floor.  I can see wanting to take on that kind of a work in progress.  Defense just seems to be something you have to do when you're not on offense to him. 

Plus, passing was such a rare occurrence when he touched the ball.   Another area lacking in his game that I would think would turn off many (not saying all or most) coaches at the high D-1 level.

[Johnny B]

ERRR.... Why Deonte?

[HutchwasClutch]

ERRR.... Why Deonte?

Addition by subtraction Johnny.

[GGGG]

A Coach K protege inheriting a kid who can't/won't play defense, won't pass the ball on offense, seriously, this was a square peg trying to be jammed in a round hole.  Another flawed Buzz recruit, talent, yes, obvious flaws in their game, yes even more- emphatically.

The purging of the attitudes and crap Buzz was willing to bring in continues.    Good for Wojo.  

The only reason I'm mildly surprise is his Milwaukee roots and that when Buzz left, he was one of the guys who left no doubt quickly he was staying at MU.

OK this is really uncalled for.  Deonte wasn't well coached, but he is a real smart kid who recently lost his mother and from everything I heard is a great teammate.  Buzz wasn't simply "willing to bring him in."  He deservedly got in on his own merits.

[Texas Western]

OK this is really uncalled for.  Deonte wasn't well coached, but he is a real smart kid who recently lost his mother and from everything I heard is a great teammate.  Buzz wasn't simply "willing to bring him in."  He deservedly got in on his own merits.

Ditto

[HutchwasClutch]

OK this is really uncalled for.  Deonte wasn't well coached, but he is a real smart kid who recently lost his mother and from everything I heard is a great teammate.  Buzz wasn't simply "willing to bring him in."  He deservedly got in on his own merits.

Please quote me correctly.  My comment about players Buzz brought in the program was not specific to Burton alone and was clearly written that way. Don't change it by inserting "him" to tailor it to how you want to rip my comment.  

BUrton doesn't pass or play any defense, nor did he ever show interest in either while at MU.  Buzz brought him in because he is very gifted offensively, but as I stated, his game has serious flaws that I'm not sure he has interest in correcting.  His play didn't suggest he had interest in correcting them, and Wojo's remarks leading up to and including his departure today suggest further he's not losing any sleep over him leaving now.

[HutchwasClutch]

OK this is really uncalled for.  Deonte wasn't well coached, but he is a real smart kid who recently lost his mother and from everything I heard is a great teammate.  Buzz wasn't simply "willing to bring him in."  He deservedly got in on his own merits.

By the way, clarify who he wasn't well coached by?

[mattyv1908]

Hutch-

I'm not supporting Buzz when I say this, but call me skeptical that Wojo will be able to 1) achieve Buzz's level of post season success 2) win a BE regular season championship even in this watered down Big East and 3) consistently bring NBA talent to this team.

Be dismissive of Buzz and even Crean if you want, but we got lucky with lightning in a bottle with Buzz once.  Based on other former Duke assistants moving on to head coaching jobs the odds are against us having it strike twice.

Even if Ellenson is everything we hope him to be,  getting the type of players like Butler, Crowder, Johnson-Odom, Blue, Jamil, Gardner consistently to Marquette is unlikely.

[Eldon]

Hutch-

I'm not supporting Buzz when I say this, but call me skeptical that Wojo will be able to 1) achieve Buzz's level of post season success 2) win a BE regular season championship even in this watered down Big East and 3) consistently bring NBA talent to this team.

Be dismissive of Buzz and even Crean if you want, but we got lucky with lightning in a bottle with Buzz once.  Based on other former Duke assistants moving on to head coaching jobs the odds are against us having it strike twice.

Even if Ellenson is everything we hope him to be,  getting the type of players like Butler, Crowder, Johnson-Odom, Blue, Jamil, Gardner consistently to Marquette is unlikely.

Just curious, if the choice were yours, would you have chosen someone else?

[mattyv1908]

Just curious, if the choice were yours, would you have chosen someone else?

Yes.

I'm not unhappy with Wojo being hired but he was not my first or even fifth choice.  You can find my thoughts on the hundreds of posts speculating on our coaching search.  It's over now.

This was in direct response to Hutch's 'The purging of attitudes and crap Buzz was willing to bring in continues.  Good for Wojo.'  Neither Burton or Dawson have shown any indication of poor attitudes and I'd suggest that the 'attitudes and crap' Buzz took chances on is why we had the success we had.  When you're in that second tier of schools (not blue bloods) you have to find the talent that slipped through the cracks of the upper echelon.  Finding talent in imperfect packages and getting them to play hard was a big strength of what Buzz was able to do in his time here.

I'll go on record to say I think the program will be in worse shape with Wojo in five years than it has been the previous twelve.  As a fan and supporter of MUBB I hope I'm wrong.

[Eldon]

Addition by subtraction Johnny.

I agree his dribble drives at Kaminsky weren't working.  And yes, I believe in player development.

You think a guy in his senior season though, who's been crap offensively his first three full seasons in college, is all of a sudden going to change spots this year and become a dependable scording threat?  Yeah, it's happened before, but the odds are high against it happening.  Let's be realistic and not dreamers about him.

I'll hold out hope for guys like Burton, Taylor, Duane Wilson, maybe FIscher, to step up and give scoring punch help to Carlino over Anderson any day.

Didn't hold out very long, eh?

[Eldon]

Yes.

Care to share who?

[mattyv1908]

Care to share who?

Eldon,

I updated my previous post.  I didn't name names.  It was discussed in many posts during our coaching search and is irrelevant now.  I'm not anti Wojo, just simply feel he could have done more with this recent situation to prevent it from occurring midseason.

[PGsHeroes32]

Please quote me correctly.  My comment about players Buzz brought in the program was not specific to Burton alone and was clearly written that way. Don't change it by inserting "him" to tailor it to how you want to rip my comment.  

BUrton doesn't pass or play any defense, nor did he ever show interest in either while at MU.  Buzz brought him in because he is very gifted offensively, but as I stated, his game has serious flaws that I'm not sure he has interest in correcting.  His play didn't suggest he had interest in correcting them, and Wojo's remarks leading up to and including his departure today suggest further he's not losing any sleep over him leaving now.

But you very clearly stated that "it continues" when referring to Burton. You stated a fallacy and tried defend yourself by stating another. You were quoted correctly. You lumped Burton in with the "bad attitude" crowd when it has never been even hinted that Deonte has shown any of that.

[GGGG]

Please quote me correctly.  My comment about players Buzz brought in the program was not specific to Burton alone and was clearly written that way. Don't change it by inserting "him" to tailor it to how you want to rip my comment. 

Total cop out.

You are correct that I didn't quote you correctly, but you certainly insinuated it by saying what you said in a thread about Burton.  Deonte Burton was hardly a crap player that Buzz somehow forced onto Marquette.  He was a top prospect, with solid academics, who was a great teammate and representative of MU.

As others have said, it didn't work out.  Maybe he doesn't like Wojo.  Maybe he can't quite figure out what Wojo wants because he hasn't been coached well in the past.

That doesn't make him a bad guy or even a bad player.  It just means that it is probably best for him to find a new place to play.  And that's OK.  Wherever that ends up being, I wish him well because he seems like the type of guy I would be proud to call my son.

[brewcity77]

That doesn't make him a bad guy or even a bad player.  It just means that it is probably best for him to find a new place to play.  And that's OK.  Wherever that ends up being, I wish him well because he seems like the type of guy I would be proud to call my son.

Deonte is one of those kids that I really wonder how good of advice he is getting. He's gone through a ton of crap this year, and while Marquette may not be the best place for him, I'm not sure that truly finding the best place for him is what everyone around him has in mind.

[bilsu]

I have always wondered, if Buzz was winning recruiting battles because other teams recognized the players had deficiencies in their games. For example JJJ has a funky outside shot and even though he was rated very high Memphis did not seriously recruit him.

[brewcity77]

I have always wondered, if Buzz was winning recruiting battles because other teams recognized the players had deficiencies in their games. For example JJJ has a funky outside shot and even though he was rated very high Memphis did not seriously recruit him.

I do think one of Buzz's failings was recruiting more to star rankings when it came to high school kids. So many of his highly rated players didn't pan out. Sure, we won some recruiting battles, but against who?

• Erik Williams picked us over Texas A&M, Baylor, and Alabama
  
• Junior Cadougan picked us over Memphis and Wake Forest
  
• Jamail Jones picked us over Oklahoma, Xavier, and Mississippi State
  
• Juan Anderson picked us over Cal, Arizona State, and Oregon
  
• Steve Taylor picked us over DePaul and Missouri
  
• Jajuan Johnson picked us over Miami and Alabama

I left the local guys off the list, but while we were winning recruiting battles, these weren't recruiting battles against top basketball programs. There are a few decent names in there, but these are schools that generally get top-100 recruits but don't win a ton with them. Even schools like Duke, UNC, Arizona, and Kansas recruit guys that aren't top-25 prospects. Yes, these are the kinds of players they usually fill out the roster with, but why is it none of these guys had even one blue-blood offer? My guess is because the big programs saw flaws in these guys games.

[mattyv1908]

I do think one of Buzz's failings was recruiting more to star rankings when it came to high school kids. So many of his highly rated players didn't pan out. Sure, we won some recruiting battles, but against who?

• Erik Williams picked us over Texas A&M, Baylor, and Alabama
  
• Junior Cadougan picked us over Memphis and Wake Forest
  
• Jamail Jones picked us over Oklahoma, Xavier, and Mississippi State
  
• Juan Anderson picked us over Cal, Arizona State, and Oregon
  
• Steve Taylor picked us over DePaul and Missouri
  
• Jajuan Johnson picked us over Miami and Alabama

I left the local guys off the list, but while we were winning recruiting battles, these weren't recruiting battles against top basketball programs. There are a few decent names in there, but these are schools that generally get top-100 recruits but don't win a ton with them. Even schools like Duke, UNC, Arizona, and Kansas recruit guys that aren't top-25 prospects. Yes, these are the kinds of players they usually fill out the roster with, but why is it none of these guys had even one blue-blood offer? My guess is because the big programs saw flaws in these guys games.

Baylor, Memphis, Xavier, Oklahoma, Cal and Missouri are all good basketball programs either currently or in the very recent past.

[brewcity77]

Baylor, Memphis, Xavier, Oklahoma, Cal and Missouri are all good basketball programs either currently or in the very recent past.

Yes, good programs, but so were we. What I'm saying is we weren't beating schools in recruiting battles that were on that next plateau. And the interest from those schools the next tier up simply wasn't there.

[mattyv1908]

Yes, good programs, but so were we. What I'm saying is we weren't beating schools in recruiting battles that were on that next plateau. And the interest from those schools the next tier up simply wasn't there.

Was Vander choosing Marquette over Wisconsin beating a school on the next plateau?

[brewcity77]

Was Vander choosing Marquette over Wisconsin beating a school on the next plateau?

LOL

Totally different as he originally committed to Wisconsin, then was essentially run off.

[HutchwasClutch]

Total cop out.

You are correct that I didn't quote you correctly, but you certainly insinuated it by saying what you said in a thread about Burton.  Deonte Burton was hardly a crap player that Buzz somehow forced onto Marquette.  He was a top prospect, with solid academics, who was a great teammate and representative of MU.

As others have said, it didn't work out.  Maybe he doesn't like Wojo.  Maybe he can't quite figure out what Wojo wants because he hasn't been coached well in the past.

That doesn't make him a bad guy or even a bad player.  It just means that it is probably best for him to find a new place to play.  And that's OK.  Wherever that ends up being, I wish him well because he seems like the type of guy I would be proud to call my son.

I'll expand on my original comment about Wojo purging the attitudes and crap Buzz brought in the program.

Assumptions are being made that I was calling out Burton as a bad dude, this horrid cancer on the team, whatever.  I'm not lumping him in with the Montearle Clark's that Buzz recruited as some here are assuming.  By the term crap, I mean recruiting a guy who doesn't play defense  or pass the ball, and has shown zero interest in either ( as stated in one of my earlier posts on this thread).   That's selfish basketball, that never leads to winning basketball, and that is indeed part of the crap that Buzz brought in.   I think there are character flaws for a guy who doesn't want to do these things on a basketball court.  It's selfish, self absorbed, and a ME attitude.  I never heard of any trouble the kid caused at MU off the court either, and he seemed rather soft spoken and quiet, but his playing style on the court, did not show well at all, and MU is well rid of him I think.