tOSU Stats

[willie warrior]

Classic example of stats, no matter how supposedly "relevant," being of little use in certain specific cases.

Duane played quite poorly yesterday. Defensively, he was awful in both games. Offensively, just about no impact whatsoever.

I'm not saying he's no good. Heck, I'm not saying that he won't be a first-team All-American someday. And I agree with TAMU that I'd like to see Duane more off the ball (as well as on the ball).

Just saying I don't care how good his eFG% has been, because he obviously has been less than good.

Ditto to the 20th for Derricks's play yesterday. He was awful many times in the past. But you will never say that about him but will for Duane. Ahhh....selective criticism, ain't it great?

[Henry Sugar]

Henry, you understand the numbers much better than I do, but here is what at least I think I saw: the stats show our eFG% against was really bad both halves but even worse in the first. But what I saw was a defense that was much better in the first half. We forced more TOs and more difficult shots but OSU couldn't miss from 3. I hope it was because we tired, but the second have was one uncontested dunk/layup after another. Their eFG% went down only in the last 3-4 minutes when they slowed things down with a 20 point lead. (3points in their last 7 possessions)

Here's the stat that stands out for me - in the first half OSU shot 7 dunks or layups (made 5). In the second they shot an almost unbelievable 18 dunks or layups (made 14). That's almost one a minute! I'm sure some of it was because we were gassed but it's still a big WOW.

Yeah, the defense was much better in the 1H (0.97 ppp for OSU) than the 2H (1.21 ppp).

[GGGG]

How many times did OSU turn the ball over in the first half?  A lot of that wasn't due to good defense, but sloppy play by OSU.

[Pakuni]

I'm not stressed out about the eFG%.  IT's the fact that the attitude here is that this is an NCAA tourney team, of which, this team is not.  This team will be lucky to be .500    Bubble NIT team is the ceiling.  

It might be best not to get stressed out about anything you read here, especially fans having high hopes in early November.

[PGsHeroes32]

Jeez so now the arguments are going to continually be Duane vs Derrick this year?

Its already the same thing as last year. Comparing the talented but raw players(Mayo, Duane, JJJ etcc) vs the far less talented experienced upperclassmen(Jake, Derrick).

Those pro talent refuse to believe that Jake and Derrick had any value

And those that defend them do it through hypocrisy by finding random faults any chance against Duane/Todd/JJJ and boost Derrick for the smallest of things.

Its all never ending.

[tower912]

I'll add to it.   A year ago there was wailing and gnashing of teeth because (fill in the blank) wasn't playing more.   The common response was that they had to play better defense, because the former coach had said that minutes were earned on the defensive end.    This year, (fill in the blank) is getting more minutes, and some are shocked that they are erratic defensively.     At what point did and why did anyone start believing that the guys who were not good defensively last year would suddenly become defensive stoppers in an aggressive, stretched, man to man defense?     
I believe with every fiber of my being that each and every one of them will get better defensively.   But in the end, this is a small, not deep team with few players who have ever been considered even adequate defensively.   It is going to take time but I believe they will get there.   Just expecting it against an upper level B1G team this early in the year is unreasonable. 

[MU82]

Jeez so now the arguments are going to continually be Duane vs Derrick this year?

At least it's not Derrick vs Dawson.

I call that progress!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Ditto to the 20th for Derricks's play yesterday. He was awful many times in the past. But you will never say that about him but will for Duane. Ahhh....selective criticism, ain't it great?

Well that's because Derrick wasn't awful. He wasn't good. But he wasn't awful. Duane was awful for the first 35 minutes of the game and spectacular for the last 5. Since Carlino seems to have earned (deservingly so IMHO) the starting PG spot, that means we are discussing who are backup PG should be (not something you hear often). For my backup PG, I prefer a game manager who's going to be consistently average than a player who is either going to give you  a great performance, or cause your team to hemorrhage points. If we were talking about the starting PG job, I'd probably want to roll the dice and hope Duane can find some consistency.

In an ideal world, I would have Derrick sub in for Carlino for 5 two minute spans every game. Derrick holds down the fort for very short stints while Carlino gets a quick breather. Duane, JJJ, and Dawson split time at the two depending on who is playing the best that night.

[jesmu84]

Small sample size. Let's wait till we get a few games under our belt to claim this as either the worst MU team ever or an NCAA team.

Flying off the handle either way is disingenuous at best.

[NersEllenson]

In an ideal world, I would have Derrick sub in for Carlino for 5 two minute spans every game. Derrick holds down the fort for very short stints while Carlino gets a quick breather. Duane, JJJ, and Dawson split time at the two depending on who is playing the best that night.

This is exactly what needs to happen.  

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This is exactly what needs to happen.  

COMMON GROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Sorry, I had to)

[willie warrior]

Well that's because Derrick wasn't awful. He wasn't good. But he wasn't awful. Duane was awful for the first 35 minutes of the game and spectacular for the last 5. Since Carlino seems to have earned (deservingly so IMHO) the starting PG spot, that means we are discussing who are backup PG should be (not something you hear often). For my backup PG, I prefer a game manager who's going to be consistently average than a player who is either going to give you  a great performance, or cause your team to hemorrhage points. If we were talking about the starting PG job, I'd probably want to roll the dice and hope Duane can find some consistency.

In an ideal world, I would have Derrick sub in for Carlino for 5 two minute spans every game. Derrick holds down the fort for very short stints while Carlino gets a quick breather. Duane, JJJ, and Dawson split time at the two depending on who is playing the best that night.

You are simply laughable, TAMU. Right here you said you would roll the dice between Duane and Derrick, hoping Duane can find some consistency. Do you mean like the consistency of Derrick being a 4 on 5 player? Without saying it, you are inferring Derrick is the better player. Keep up the slurp, because before long Duane will be blowing right by Derrick, as he already has, except in your mind.

[Ellisium]

How many times did OSU turn the ball over in the first half?  A lot of that wasn't due to good defense, but sloppy play by OSU.

Bingo.  Our defense doesn't force many turnovers as Carlino and Andersen aren't quick enough. 

[brandx]

Well that's because Derrick wasn't awful. He wasn't good. But he wasn't awful. Duane was awful for the first 35 minutes of the game and spectacular for the last 5. Since Carlino seems to have earned (deservingly so IMHO) the starting PG spot, that means we are discussing who are backup PG should be (not something you hear often). For my backup PG, I prefer a game manager who's going to be consistently average than a player who is either going to give you  a great performance, or cause your team to hemorrhage points. If we were talking about the starting PG job, I'd probably want to roll the dice and hope Duane can find some consistency.

In an ideal world, I would have Derrick sub in for Carlino for 5 two minute spans every game. Derrick holds down the fort for very short stints while Carlino gets a quick breather. Duane, JJJ, and Dawson split time at the two depending on who is playing the best that night.

Thanks a lot TAMU

The one guy I have on ignore and you go and quote him.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Well that's because Derrick wasn't awful. He wasn't good. But he wasn't awful. Duane was awful for the first 35 minutes of the game and spectacular for the last 5.

Duane played only four minutes in the 1st half and then the last 12 in the 2nd. Most OSU starters were in till the end, but certainly for most of those 12 minutes. While Duane wasn't stellar, he did some nice things...one of the few who did. It was his second game ever, and in both, he did very well on the ORating in limited minutes. Stats can indeed be misleading, but let's shy away from hyperbole like above and stay with the facts. Statsheet graded him as a B- and I thnk that is about right.

As to the thread comments on his defense, he and the team were horrid. Didn't play with their feet, no communication, no rotations, tired legs....on top of a mismatch on height and athleticism. The good news, a lot of this can be fixed with time and coaching.  

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You are simply laughable, TAMU. Right here you said you would roll the dice between Duane and Derrick, hoping Duane can find some consistency. Do you mean like the consistency of Derrick being a 4 on 5 player? Without saying it, you are inferring Derrick is the better player. Keep up the slurp, because before long Duane will be blowing right by Derrick, as he already has, except in your mind.

So he's blown past him? But Wojo still played Derrick more? Guess its not just in my mind.

4 on 5 was last season. Last night, OSU didn't sag off Derrick and he went 1/2 from three. I don't know if that will continue or not, but is not fair to assume that Derrick hasn't made any improvements.

Right now, Derrick is the better backup PG. Duane is the better starting PG and shooting guard. Since Carlino has the starting job for now, that means Derrick will be the backup and Duane will play off the ball. As Duane gets more confident, he may take over some of Derrick's minutes. Or he might have to wait til next season.

[Blackhat]

Here's some good websites with Coach K's basic defensive philosophy.  

http://www.coachingtoolbox.net/blog/coach-k-defensive-notes

http://coachingbetterbball.blogspot.com/2009/10/team-man-to-man-defense-with-mike.html
 

Did we get a single charge?   I don't think we did.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Did we get a single charge?   I don't think we did.

I remember one from the first half. But I think that might have been it.

[MU82]

Well that's because Derrick wasn't awful. He wasn't good. But he wasn't awful. Duane was awful for the first 35 minutes of the game and spectacular for the last 5. Since Carlino seems to have earned (deservingly so IMHO) the starting PG spot, that means we are discussing who are backup PG should be (not something you hear often). For my backup PG, I prefer a game manager who's going to be consistently average than a player who is either going to give you  a great performance, or cause your team to hemorrhage points. If we were talking about the starting PG job, I'd probably want to roll the dice and hope Duane can find some consistency.

In an ideal world, I would have Derrick sub in for Carlino for 5 two minute spans every game. Derrick holds down the fort for very short stints while Carlino gets a quick breather. Duane, JJJ, and Dawson split time at the two depending on who is playing the best that night.

I agree with this premise, especially about Derrick getting only 10 mpg or so, but I'd still like to see Duane get some run at PG, especially if it becomes apparent as the season progresses that we aren't going to be a surprise NCAA tourney team.

If we have a realistic shot at the tourney then yeah, keep using the two seniors at PG while spotting Duane there for a minute or two while using him mostly at SG. But if it becomes obvious we no longer have a shot, shouldn't we at least be thinking about what we hope to be an amazing future? And shouldn't a part of that be seeing if Duane really can play PG at this level?

Lots of assumptions there, I know, and I also know we're not in the play-for-future stage of the season yet.

[Texas Western]

Well that's because Derrick wasn't awful. He wasn't good. But he wasn't awful. Duane was awful for the first 35 minutes of the game and spectacular for the last 5. Since Carlino seems to have earned (deservingly so IMHO) the starting PG spot, that means we are discussing who are backup PG should be (not something you hear often). For my backup PG, I prefer a game manager who's going to be consistently average than a player who is either going to give you  a great performance, or cause your team to hemorrhage points. If we were talking about the starting PG job, I'd probably want to roll the dice and hope Duane can find some consistency.

In an ideal world, I would have Derrick sub in for Carlino for 5 two minute spans every game. Derrick holds down the fort for very short stints while Carlino gets a quick breather. Duane, JJJ, and Dawson split time at the two depending on who is playing the best that night.

I agree with your ideal world scenario , only thing I would add is JJJ also split time at the 3. I think he and Duane have good on court chemistry.

[willie warrior]

So he's blown past him? But Wojo still played Derrick more? Guess its not just in my mind.

4 on 5 was last season. Last night, OSU didn't sag off Derrick and he went 1/2 from three. I don't know if that will continue or not, but is not fair to assume that Derrick hasn't made any improvements.

Right now, Derrick is the better backup PG. Duane is the better starting PG and shooting guard. Since Carlino has the starting job for now, that means Derrick will be the backup and Duane will play off the ball. As Duane gets more confident, he may take over some of Derrick's minutes. Or he might have to wait til next season.

As it also is not fair to assume that he is now competent at three point shooting based on 1 for 2, especially with his history.

[willie warrior]

So he's blown past him? But Wojo still played Derrick more? Guess its not just in my mind.

4 on 5 was last season. Last night, OSU didn't sag off Derrick and he went 1/2 from three. I don't know if that will continue or not, but is not fair to assume that Derrick hasn't made any improvements.

Right now, Derrick is the better backup PG. Duane is the better starting PG and shooting guard. Since Carlino has the starting job for now, that means Derrick will be the backup and Duane will play off the ball. As Duane gets more confident, he may take over some of Derrick's minutes. Or he might have to wait til next season.

All opinion--no fact. But OK, you think Derrick is better than Duane. Just like you think he is better than Dawson, and likely was better than Jr. Derrick is a back up. My point is he should be behind Duane also. Let's see how that plays out. But if you believe that Derrick is more talented--keep chewing the mushrooms.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

All opinion--no fact. But OK, you think Derrick is better than Duane. Just like you think he is better than Dawson, and likely was better than Jr. Derrick is a back up. My point is he should be behind Duane also. Let's see how that plays out. But if you believe that Derrick is more talented--keep chewing the mushrooms.

Not what I said in the slightest. I don't think Derrick is better than Duane. I think he is a better backup PG than Duane. If it was the starting job, I would pick Duane.

You can't look at the PG position in a vacuum. I don't want Duane playing the back up point because we need him to be the backup SG. We run a lot of four guard lineups and that means we need all of our guards getting minutes. That includes Derrick, Duane and Dawson. Derrick can hold down the backup PG spot while Duane and Dawson help out with the 2 and even the 3.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I agree with this premise, especially about Derrick getting only 10 mpg or so, but I'd still like to see Duane get some run at PG, especially if it becomes apparent as the season progresses that we aren't going to be a surprise NCAA tourney team.

If we have a realistic shot at the tourney then yeah, keep using the two seniors at PG while spotting Duane there for a minute or two while using him mostly at SG. But if it becomes obvious we no longer have a shot, shouldn't we at least be thinking about what we hope to be an amazing future? And shouldn't a part of that be seeing if Duane really can play PG at this level?

Lots of assumptions there, I know, and I also know we're not in the play-for-future stage of the season yet.

Of all the positions, I think PG requires the most in game experience in order to become better. So I agree that getting Duane some playing time at the 1 would be beneficial. Assuming he is the starting PG of the future. If Wojo really likes him off the ball, maybe he's looking to Noskowiak or Dawson to be the 1 next season. Or maybe Cohen or Cheathum since they both reportedly have PG skills.

I always have a hard time picking when its time to start playing for the future in college basketball. You technically aren't out of the tournament until you lose in the conference tournament. I would say if there is no hope of an at large bid, getting future starters some run is important, especially if they will be switching positions.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Not what I said in the slightest. I don't think Derrick is better than Duane. I think he is a better backup PG than Duane. If it was the starting job, I would pick Duane.

You can't look at the PG position in a vacuum. I don't want Duane playing the back up point because we need him to be the backup SG. We run a lot of four guard lineups and that means we need all of our guards getting minutes. That includes Derrick, Duane and Dawson. Derrick can hold down the backup PG spot while Duane and Dawson help out with the 2 and even the 3.

No offense, but this makes no sense.