Jajuan J breakout

[brandx]

Problem with Buzz last year was he rolled out a lineup of Derrick, Jake, Juan, Jamil and Otule to start games. WTF?  How in God's name is that lineup going to be able to score effectively?

This is where you hit the jackpot. NO REASONABLE COACH could ever expect to beat a decent team with this type of lineup. 4 non-scorers and a guy who get about 12-13 a game. Really?

Everyone wants a great defense, but even if all 5 of those guys were GREAT defenders, you cannot beat a good team. If you have a great defense that holds a good team to 60 points - you still have to SCORE 61 to win.

No, JJJ and Deonte weren't ready to play at a high level, but whose job is it to get them ready? And while there defense wasn't good, at least they could have put the ball in the basket occasionally.

[Henry Sugar]

The way I see it is Jake was mid-major talent with high major toughness. JJJ has high major talent with mid-major toughness. Buzz was all about tipping your bottle over and seeing who was tough enough to get up. Wojo was also a tough player. As the saying goes " When the going gets tough the tough get going"  I am not sure JJJ has that mentality. I hope he proves me wrong, but there has to be some reason why Buzz did not play him more. Burton's amount of time increased as the year went on and JJJ's decreased, so saying Buzz does not play freshmen is not the real answer.

The reason is that no coaches play freshmen less than Buzz.

Burton averaged:
Year   12.6
NC   14.5
C   11.3
1st half Conference   11.1
2nd half Conference   11.4

Burton played less at the end of the year than he did at the beginning of the year, and there was virtually no difference between how much Burton played the first 9 games of conference play and the last 10 games of conference play.

Also, for the "Buzz was goofy with his patterns" crowd, Burton's PT was really inconsistent. Lots of games with 6 min or less. Lots of games with 17+ min.

[GGGG]

This is where you hit the jackpot. NO REASONABLE COACH could ever expect to beat a decent team with this type of lineup. 4 non-scorers and a guy who get about 12-13 a game. Really?

Everyone wants a great defense, but even if all 5 of those guys were GREAT defenders, you cannot beat a good team. If you have a great defense that holds a good team to 60 points - you still have to SCORE 61 to win.

No, JJJ and Deonte weren't ready to play at a high level, but whose job is it to get them ready? And while there defense wasn't good, at least they could have put the ball in the basket occasionally.

You can't on one hand claim that Buzz shouldn't have been playing the line up he did, and then on the other acknowledging that JJJ and Deonte weren't ready. 

And no, the head coach isn't the sole reason why a player may not be ready. 

That being said, Deonte should have played more.  JJJ?  I'm sorry but no.  He was very much ineffective.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Very nice, Ners. One thing you shaded the wrong way--Buzz left because he was shown the door.

He wasn't shown the door. He found his own door, even opened it. The university merely didn't bend over backwards (or even really bend at all) to keep him from walking through the door. On to the next one!

[NersEllenson]

He wasn't shown the door. He found his own door, even opened it. The university merely didn't bend over backwards (or even really bend at all) to keep him from walking through the door. On to the next one!

That coincides with everything I've heard.  Essentially Buzz wore out his welcome...and was true to his word in the sense that "I'll stay as long as they'll have me."  (Yet to be tacked onto that statement needed to be a qualifier of - "so long as I get everything I want and ask for.")

Buzz was never the country bumpkin he played himself up to be...and from Day 1 was very intelligent...the aww shucks thing was schtick.  However, the degree of his ego is what changed and evolved over his time at MU and with his success.  He became a full fledged prima donna.

I stopped having his back when even after winning the power struggle with Larry Williams, and Pilarz being removed - he still couldn't get along (meet halfway) with Wild and Cords who had proven to be very Men's basketball friendly historically, and very supportive of the head coach at MU.

[Silkk the Shaka]

One game out of 32 against a team that exclusively played zone.

If you're right that John Dawson was the answer last year as a freshman he'll be a stud as a sophomore and I'll apologize and admit I was wrong. But if he remains behind Derrick on the depth chart there are two possibilities:

1. Our new coach is throwing games
                     or
2. You were wrong.

Time will tell.

Not necessarily. Option 3 is that the roster makeup of this year's team is completely different and the need to apply full-court pressure and play 4-guard lineups at times might play better to Derrick's strengths.

An argument can certainly be made that while Derrick may have been a better overall player (in practice, one on one, "playing to the scouting report", wherever) than Dawson last year, but his presence negatively affected others (like Davante) and overall team production offensively. Therefore, he was not necessarily the best choice for as many minutes as he played based on the goal of maximizing the team output with the roster as constructed in 2013-14. In that instance, both sides would be "right".

[NersEllenson]

Not necessarily. Option 3 is that the roster makeup of this year's team is completely different and the need to apply full-court pressure and play 4-guard lineups at times might play better to Derrick's strengths.

An argument can certainly be made that while Derrick may have been a better overall player (in practice, one on one, "playing to the scouting report", wherever) than Dawson last year, but his presence negatively affected others (like Davante) and overall team production offensively. Therefore, he was not necessarily the best choice for as many minutes as he played based on the goal of maximizing the team output with the roster as constructed in 2013-14. In that instance, both sides would be "right".

A few things I know for sure:

Wojo will give Derrick every chance to be the starter (due to senior status, high character) and the similarities between Derrick and Wojo (as a player) - good character, good defenders, challenged offensively - and Wojo was challenged by Coach K in the offseason of his Junior year - that very likely a change was going to get made at the starting PG position...and Wojo worked his ass off that summer to prove he was worthy of a starting role....and he rewarded Coach K with an improved game.

Wojo will not play Derrick 30+ minutes game after game if we are losing, and teams aren't guarding him within 5 feet on the perimeter...and our offense flounders game after game after game as a result.

[Silkk the Shaka]

A few things I know for sure:

Wojo will give Derrick every chance to be the starter (due to senior status, high character) and the similarities between Derrick and Wojo (as a player) - good character, good defenders, challenged offensively - and Wojo was challenged by Coach K in the offseason of his Junior year - that very likely a change was going to get made at the starting PG position...and Wojo worked his ass off that summer to prove he was worthy of a starting role....and he rewarded Coach K with an improved game.

Wojo will not play Derrick 30+ minutes game after game if we are losing, and teams aren't guarding him within 5 feet on the perimeter...and our offense flounders game after game after game as a result.

Agree completely.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

A few things I know for sure:

Wojo will give Derrick every chance to be the starter (due to senior status, high character) and the similarities between Derrick and Wojo (as a player) - good character, good defenders, challenged offensively - and Wojo was challenged by Coach K in the offseason of his Junior year - that very likely a change was going to get made at the starting PG position...and Wojo worked his ass off that summer to prove he was worthy of a starting role....and he rewarded Coach K with an improved game.

Wojo will not play Derrick 30+ minutes game after game if we are losing, and teams aren't guarding him within 5 feet on the perimeter...and our offense flounders game after game after game as a result.

Forgive me if my memory is off, but weren't you touting the Carlino signing earlier as a clear indicator that Wojo wasn't confident in Derrick?

Anyways, if it was you, has something changed your opinion?

[willie warrior]

He wasn't shown the door. He found his own door, even opened it. The university merely didn't bend over backwards (or even really bend at all) to keep him from walking through the door. On to the next one!

Oh yeah--he was shown the door--that is why he is gone. It is elementary, Watson.

[willie warrior]

A few things I know for sure:

Wojo will give Derrick every chance to be the starter (due to senior status, high character) and the similarities between Derrick and Wojo (as a player) - good character, good defenders, challenged offensively - and Wojo was challenged by Coach K in the offseason of his Junior year - that very likely a change was going to get made at the starting PG position...and Wojo worked his ass off that summer to prove he was worthy of a starting role....and he rewarded Coach K with an improved game.

Wojo will not play Derrick 30+ minutes game after game if we are losing, and teams aren't guarding him within 5 feet on the perimeter...and our offense flounders game after game after game as a result.

Yup. derrick is Wojo II, or is it Wojo's Mini Me?

[GGGG]

Oh yeah--he was shown the door--that is why he is gone. It is elementary, Watson.

By that logic, Al was "shown the door" after 1977.

[Lennys Tap]

Not necessarily. Option 3 is that the roster makeup of this year's team is completely different and the need to apply full-court pressure and play 4-guard lineups at times might play better to Derrick's strengths.

An argument can certainly be made that while Derrick may have been a better overall player (in practice, one on one, "playing to the scouting report", wherever) than Dawson last year, but his presence negatively affected others (like Davante) and overall team production offensively. Therefore, he was not necessarily the best choice for as many minutes as he played based on the goal of maximizing the team output with the roster as constructed in 2013-14. In that instance, both sides would be "right".

I don't disagree, but to say that your argument is more reasonable and nuanced than what Ners was claiming last year would be one very large understatement.

[NersEllenson]

I don't disagree, but to say that your argument is more reasonable and nuanced than what Ners was claiming last year would be one very large understatement.

Pretty sure I stated MULTIPLE times that the domino effect of Derrick's limitations could not be quantified easily, but no doubt were hurting the team as a whole - in addition to what the quantifiable stats reflected.  That was a huge point I made all last season...playing 4 on 5 is next to impossible to win..and the season proved that out.  And, it was an absolute true statement Buzz did make - That MU was playing 4 on 5 - why not at least see how the whole team performs if it had a PG that needed to be defended everywhere on the court??  Yet he refused for all but one game last season. 

[NersEllenson]

Forgive me if my memory is off, but weren't you touting the Carlino signing earlier as a clear indicator that Wojo wasn't confident in Derrick?

Anyways, if it was you, has something changed your opinion?

Yes...I did say that...and I don't think it is false at all.  If Derrick shows no improvement whatsoever over last year, we won't be handcuffed in that we will have a veteran guard who's shown he can play at the high D-1 level.  Of course had Buzz played Dawson more last season, we would have gotten a better handle on what he could/couldn't do.

Question for you:  If you were Wojo and watched tape of MU last season, would you have been confident in Derrick??

[Lennys Tap]

Wojo will not play Derrick 30+ minutes game after game if we are losing

If we had Matt Carlino and Duane Wilson available last year Buzz wouldn't have either.

[NersEllenson]

If we had Matt Carlino and Duane Wilson available last year Buzz wouldn't have either.

Fixed. 

Burton could only get 12 a game...and he was a hell of a lot more advanced than Duane...and it was noted by Buzz and others that Duane wasn't exactly lighting it up prior to his injury.

Can Buzz do anything wrong in your world Lenny?!  Do you not feel Buzz should have played Mayo and Burton A LOT more than he did last season?  Did Juan Anderson EVER produce anything close to what Burton did in his limited minutes?  On a team with Derrick and Jake playing 30+ minutes and both being incredibly challenged offensively, does it not make sense to at least surround them with more offensively talented players such as Mayo and Burton as opposed to Juan and Otule??

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Yes...I did say that...and I don't think it is false at all.  If Derrick shows no improvement whatsoever over last year, we won't be handcuffed in that we will have a veteran guard who's shown he can play at the high D-1 level.  Of course had Buzz played Dawson more last season, we would have gotten a better handle on what he could/couldn't do.

Question for you:  If you were Wojo and watched tape of MU last season, would you have been confident in Derrick??

Well, I would've taken Carlino because it's essentially a "free" player. MU had a scholly, so I would use it on a guy that could help immediately. Smart play by Wojo.

But, I also didn't see it as some sort of indictment on Derrick.

Am I confident in Derrick? Well, I like Derrick more than most. I think he's a solid 20mpg player, but he has some limitations the prevent him from being a really good 30mpg PG.

[NersEllenson]

Well, I would've taken Carlino because it's essentially a "free" player. MU had a scholly, so I would use it on a guy that could help immediately. Smart play by Wojo.

But, I also didn't see it as some sort of indictment on Derrick.

Am I confident in Derrick? Well, I like Derrick more than most. I think he's a solid 20mpg player, but he has some limitations the prevent him from being a really good 30mpg PG.

Okay.   Agree to disagree. 

[willie warrior]

By that logic, Al was "shown the door" after 1977.

Sultan--no other way to say it---you are clueless. Al opened the door. If you believe that Buzz was not shown the door, that is your logic. He was given the word, and flew the coop. Al was not. Your logic, as Spock would say "is illogical" But keep up with the battle Sultan. I mean why bother? You are the original thinker and the rest of us are country bumpkins looking for the turnip truck, cannot compute.

Keep up supporting Buzz--that is how you roll.

[GGGG]

Sultan--no other way to say it---you are clueless. Al opened the door. If you believe that Buzz was not shown the door, that is your logic. He was given the word, and flew the coop. Al was not. Your logic, as Spock would say "is illogical" But keep up with the battle Sultan. I mean why bother? You are the original thinker and the rest of us are country bumpkins looking for the turnip truck, cannot compute.

He was not shown the door.  Multiple people in this thread have stated as such.  Other people I know have pretty much backed up what Ners said.  He wore out his welcome and leadership didn't go out of its way to keep him happy.

You simply do not know what you are talking about.

[Wojo'sMojo]

A few things I know for sure:

Wojo will give Derrick every chance to be the starter (due to senior status, high character) and the similarities between Derrick and Wojo (as a player) - good character, good defenders, challenged offensively - and Wojo was challenged by Coach K in the offseason of his Junior year - that very likely a change was going to get made at the starting PG position...and Wojo worked his ass off that summer to prove he was worthy of a starting role....and he rewarded Coach K with an improved game.

Wojo will not play Derrick 30+ minutes game after game if we are losing, and teams aren't guarding him within 5 feet on the perimeter...and our offense flounders game after game after game as a result.

Has it been confirmed that Derrick is starting this year?

[NersEllenson]

Has it been confirmed that Derrick is starting this year?

Not been publicly stated, yet all signs point toward it - which isn't incredibly surprising - given he's a senior, a captain, the incumbent, and a high character kid.  I will be surprised if Derrick is playing more than 15-20 minutes come conference play - and if that is the case it will be the result of Derrick showing he's a threat on the offensive end..and is playing such incredible defense and turning the opposition over frequently to where he earns 20+.  I have no doubt if its more of the same as we saw last season, he will not be playing 15+

From everything I've heard - Wojo sees both Duane and Dawson as combo guards, with Dawson being more of a 2/3 candidate and Duane a 1/2 candidate.  Dawson is one of the stronger players physically (after Derrick and Burton) on the team to where the 3 could be an option.

[GGGG]

I think all of the guards seem to be viewed as combo guards.  We will see how this system works, but I think we will see up to as many as four guards bring the ball up at different times. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Sultan--no other way to say it---you are clueless. Al opened the door. If you believe that Buzz was not shown the door, that is your logic. He was given the word, and flew the coop. Al was not. Your logic, as Spock would say "is illogical" But keep up with the battle Sultan. I mean why bother? You are the original thinker and the rest of us are country bumpkins looking for the turnip truck, cannot compute.

Keep up supporting Buzz--that is how you roll.

If Buzz wanted to stay (without giving any additional demands to the administration) he would have been back. He said "give me more." The university said "no." Buzz said "Virginia Tech will give me what I want." University responded "okay go."

If your spouse threatens to cheat on you multiple times, eventually you will tell them to go ahead and do it. It's then up to them if they go through with it.

If that matches you definition of "was shown the door" than yes that's correct. But if you were implying that he was given a "quit or be fired" ultimatum, you are mistaken.