A Pope for our time?

[muwarrior69]

Will be interesting to see what comes of this. I hope its more scripture and less doctrine. "What is bound on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever is loosed on earth will be loosed in heaven.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/10/06/pope-urges-bishops-at-start-big-family-debate-to-speak-without-fear-listen-with/?intcmp=latestnews

[tower912]

Betting pool starting now on how when the thread lock hits.   

[Badgerhater]

It will lock when enough people cherrypick the particular Pope quotes that fit their ideology and disparage the people who use Pope quotes that don't fit their ideology.

[Skatastrophy]

Why do people pay much attention to a bunch of guys that worship a sky wizard & his hippy, tree hugging son?

What a weird world.

[jesmu84]

Why do people pay much attention to a bunch of guys that worship a sky wizard & his hippy, tree hugging son?

What a weird world.

https://twitter.com/Jesusontwittorr/status/519185136316071936

[brandx]

Maybe someone here can tell me the "practical difference" between an annulment and a divorce. I realize they are not the same thing, but don't they accomplish exactly the same thing?

I was raised in a pretty strict protestant home and always wanted to be a catholic as a kid. I had to follow all these rules about what I could and couldn't do (fun things always lined up on the "couldn't side) and they got to do whatever they wanted and then just go to confession and everything was reset.

[PBRme]

Hey hey hey you are forgetting all the "Our Fathers" and "Hail Mary" we had to recite

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Maybe someone here can tell me the "practical difference" between an annulment and a divorce. I realize they are not the same thing, but don't they accomplish exactly the same thing?

I was raised in a pretty strict protestant home and always wanted to be a catholic as a kid. I had to follow all these rules about what I could and couldn't do (fun things always lined up on the "couldn't side) and they got to do whatever they wanted and then just go to confession and everything was reset.

A divorce is civil & secular and an annulment is religiously related.  That probably still doesn't answer your question?

[mu-rara]

It will lock when enough people cherrypick the particular Pope quotes that fit their ideology and disparage the people who use Pope quotes that don't fit their ideology.

I am a conservative and I think Pope Francis is the best hope for the Catholic faith lasting another 1000 years.  People's feelings on this Pope do not necessarily follow traditional ideological lines.  

I do hope he a Pope for our time and a long time after....

Mods...delete this if you find it too political, but please don't lock the thread.  I sure would appreciate learning what my fellow Marquette alums (mostly) feel about Pope Francis.

[LloydMooresLegs]

I am thrilled with Pope Francis and I believe that he is the leader the Church needs for our time.  To paraphrase what some on this board would say, sometimes it is how you say what you say.  Compassion goes a long way, and I believe in this case may even lead to a dialogue that will result in a change in social positions that are not fundamental to the Church but are ultimately damaging to the Church.

And if you want some insight into how his leadership style could result in some non-radical change, I recommend Chris Lowney's book on the Pope Francis's leadership style, grounded in Ignatian Spirituality.

[GGGG]

I am not Catholic so I don't know if people will care. But I think the Christian Church has traditionally spent too much time on laws and judgement and not enough time on love and compassion. I find Pope Francis a breath of fesh air not because he seems more liberal, but because he seems to be a man of humility and compassion, and listens with a sense of genuine-ness.

[keefe]

John Paul II was ideal for his time of appointment but an anachronism towards the end. Francis is a breath of fresh air - how can any caring human being believe that God views homosexual love as less worthy than heterosexual affection?

The Church is at a critical juncture in its history and must adjust if it is to survive.

[brandx]

A divorce is civil & secular and an annulment is religiously related.  That probably still doesn't answer your question?

Annulment sounds kinda like a get out of jail free card. Like a special rider that lets you break the no-divorce rule.

[mu-rara]

I am not Catholic so I don't know if people will care. But I think the Christian Church has traditionally spent too much time on laws and judgement and not enough time on love and compassion. I find Pope Francis a breath of fesh air not because he seems more liberal, but because he seems to be a man of humility and compassion, and listens with a sense of genuine-ness.

Agreed.  Jesus talks in the bible about exactly this.

[chapman]

Annulment sounds kinda like a get out of jail free card. Like a special rider that lets you break the no-divorce rule.

In a way, I suppose.  Marriage is a contractual agreement.  Annulment voids the contract ([a]null and void).  Divorce terminates the contract.

[brandx]

In a way, I suppose.  Marriage is a contractual agreement.  Annulment voids the contract ([a]null and void).  Divorce terminates the contract.

So, other than semantics..... there is no difference.

[keefe]

So, other than semantics..... there is no difference.

well, there is one difference...

[Lennys Tap]

Annulment sounds kinda like a get out of jail free card. Like a special rider that lets you break the no-divorce rule.

That's actually a pretty fair description. Divorce used to be a total no no in the Catholic Church. It was illegal in Ireland as recently as 1995. If you got an annulment, though, it was as if your marriage never happened. You could marry again in the church (a no no if only divorced, not annulled).

[Hards Alumni]

John Paul II was ideal for his time of appointment but an anachronism towards the end. Francis is a breath of fresh air - how can any caring human being believe that God views homosexual love as less worthy than heterosexual affection?

The Church is at a critical juncture in its history and must adjust if it is to survive.

Here here.

I'm a follower of the fsm, but I have no problem with people who want to peacefully follow what they want and believe what they want to believe. 

[keefe]

That's actually a pretty fair description. Divorce used to be a total no no in the Catholic Church. It was illegal in Ireland as recently as 1995. If you got an annulment, though, it was as if your marriage never happened. You could marry again in the church (a no no if only divorced, not annulled).

It's all such mental masturbation. From the same folks who gave us indulgences...

"When a coin in the coffer rings/a soul from Purgatory springs..."

[source?]

For some reason I was always under the impression that an annulment was like saying some defect in the marriage (for example failure to consummate, material misrepresentation, etc) caused the marriage to be invalid, like it never happened. A divorce, I always thought, was just a severing of the marriage. One treated the marriage as never existing, the other treated it as a contract that was destroyed. I'm not sure where I got that impression, but I guess it's nice to finally know.

I should note that I was not raised Catholic, so that may have some impact on my frame of reference.

[g0lden3agle]

For some reason I was always under the impression that an annulment was like saying some defect in the marriage (for example failure to consummate, material misrepresentation, etc) caused the marriage to be invalid, like it never happened. A divorce, I always thought, was just a severing of the marriage. One treated the marriage as never existing, the other treated it as a contract that was destroyed. I'm not sure where I got that impression, but I guess it's nice to finally know.

I should note that I was not raised Catholic, so that may have some impact on my frame of reference.

Pretty sure you are correct with these impressions.

[mu03eng]

Hopefully this doesn't take us into the locked thread alley, but as a non-catholic (lutheran...so catholic lite, twice the salvation, half the guilt) I've always been confused by how "strict" the church is and how blatantly the believers ignore the churches rules.

My wife is catholic and before we got married we had a serious discussion about what faith we wanted to follow.  She didn't have to become lutheran, but I told her in no uncertain terms I would not become catholic.  I just can't get up before god and pledge to faithfully adhere to his rules per the catholic church when I know I'm going to ignore/fight against 75% of them.

Apologizes for my callousness but why is it that folks of the catholic faith hold it to be such a part of their identity and speak so highly of it but than choose to ignore it when it comes to the vast majority of their life decisions/politics?

The most liberal people I know are catholic....clearly I'm missing something.   

I'm not judging in any way just trying to understand it.  My wife couldn't explain it and she went to a catholic school for everything but high school and college.

[GGGG]

Hopefully this doesn't take us into the locked thread alley, but as a non-catholic (lutheran...so catholic lite, twice the salvation, half the guilt) I've always been confused by how "strict" the church is and how blatantly the believers ignore the churches rules.

My wife is catholic and before we got married we had a serious discussion about what faith we wanted to follow.  She didn't have to become lutheran, but I told her in no uncertain terms I would not become catholic.  I just can't get up before god and pledge to faithfully adhere to his rules per the catholic church when I know I'm going to ignore/fight against 75% of them.

Apologizes for my callousness but why is it that folks of the catholic faith hold it to be such a part of their identity and speak so highly of it but than choose to ignore it when it comes to the vast majority of their life decisions/politics?

The most liberal people I know are catholic....clearly I'm missing something.   

I'm not judging in any way just trying to understand it.  My wife couldn't explain it and she went to a catholic school for everything but high school and college.

As someone who is also Lutheran, I never understood this either.  But I think what I have figured out is that most people, including most Catholics, remain in whatever church they are in because of a comfort factor.  It is what they grew up with and it is what they are comfortable with.  That doesn't mean they agree 100% with everything the Church teaches.  I mean, I don't agree 100% with Lutheran theology either.  But I continue going to a Lutheran church because it is what I am used to and I get a sense of comfort and satisfaction from that.

Let's face it, most people (Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc.) are who they are because that's what their parents were.  Most people have had very little true experience with other faiths, and have made decisions based on deep theological philosophies.

[tower912]

Catholic social teaching is very broad.   No political party or ideology matches up perfectly with it.    For example, the American Catholic Bishops have long favored universal health care.    Until contraception was covered.     Catholic economic thought spans from the free market devotees to socialists.     Open borders for immigration, big safety net for the poor, few justifications for war.....   The commitment to life starts with conception and goes to the end where Catholic teaching is anti-death penalty, anti-assisted suicide.  It is actually very consistent.    The inconsistencies begin when political ideologies get mixed in.
    All of this will be on display at the conference that Pope Francis has called.   The conservative bishops will be debating with the liberal bishops about Catholic doctrine.    Ease some things or hold the line.   The classic struggle.