Disadvantage of Tower Hall

[warriorchick]

Tear down the Al McGuire Center! Marquette's best players (Thompson, Meminger, Lucas, Ellis, Lee, Wade, etc.) came here when the team practiced at the old gym! Bring back Willie Wampum! Let's be an Independent! That's when we had our greatest success!

C'mon, Chico, just because an ill equipped army wins a few battles it doesn't mean you keep them that way. I know your instincts cause you to look backwards for solutions but thinking that putting our basketball players in really crummy dorms won't hurt us in the long run makes zero sense.

I think Tap just volunteered to lead the $100 million fundraising effort necessary to build a new dorm from scratch.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

IIRC, when I was at MU there were non-athlete students that lived in Humphrey.  So the basketball players were already living among members of the general student population.  Is that still the case with Humphrey?

Correct me if I'm wrong on either account.

[wadesworld]

Chicos sure is back.  I now have pages of reading to do to catch up on Scooop rather than a few posts in a few threads.

[Lennys Tap]

I think Tap just volunteered to lead the $100 million fundraising effort necessary to build a new dorm from scratch.

Let me start the ball rolling with a 20 million dollar pledge - 19,999,980.00 on behalf of Dick Strong and a crisp $20 bill from me. Take it home from here, Chick.

[warriorchick]

Let me start the ball rolling with a 20 million dollar pledge - 19,999,980.00 on behalf of Dick Strong and a crisp $20 bill from me. Take it home from here, Chick.

Why would I do that when I don't agree that we need to build a new dorm for the basketball players?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

We don't need to build new dorms for basketball players. I don't think that would be right. I do think we need to make sure our players are offered the best accommodations on campus. Give em Straz, McCabe, Mashuda, Humphrey. Don't give them Carpenter.

Even better, upgrade the housing for everybody. Our residence halls are decades behind our competitors. I'm not sure I've seen a university of Marquette's prestige with worse residence halls. And I've been to a lot of campuses.

[4everwarriors]

Let me start the ball rolling with a 20 million dollar pledge - 19,999,980.00 on behalf of Dick Strong and a crisp $20 bill from me. Take it home from here, Chick.

Lenny Man,
Dickie's already heavily involved with the Bucks. Not sure how thin he wants to spread the scheckles, ya know?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Tear down the Al McGuire Center! Marquette's best players (Thompson, Meminger, Lucas, Ellis, Lee, Wade, etc.) came here when the team practiced at the old gym! Bring back Willie Wampum! Let's be an Independent! That's when we had our greatest success!

C'mon, Chico, just because an ill equipped army wins a few battles it doesn't mean you keep them that way. I know your instincts cause you to look backwards for solutions but thinking that putting our basketball players in really crummy dorms won't hurt us in the long run makes zero sense.

Very poor example.  You're trying to compare past success with lack of present success.  Problem is, we are having recruiting success TODAY, so your analogy doesn't hold up.


Maybe it does hurt us in the long run, but today it doesn't seem to, despite the arguments that it is hurting us in recruiting

[Galway Eagle]

We don't need to build new dorms for basketball players. I don't think that would be right. I do think we need to make sure our players are offered the best accommodations on campus. Give em Straz, McCabe, Mashuda, Humphrey. Don't give them Carpenter.

Even better, upgrade the housing for everybody. Our residence halls are decades behind our competitors. I'm not sure I've seen a university of Marquette's prestige with worse residence halls. And I've been to a lot of campuses.

What no OD on that list? At least if they lived there someone might use the "man cave"

[Lennys Tap]

Very poor example.  You're trying to compare past success with lack of present success.  Problem is, we are having recruiting success TODAY, so your analogy doesn't hold up.


Maybe it does hurt us in the long run, but today it doesn't seem to, despite the arguments that it is hurting us in recruiting

We had the momentum Buzz had produced and for a moment at least we have the excitement of an energetic new coach. But if you think doing things on the cheap and going back to an era where our basketball players live in dumps like Schroeder and McCormick won't ultimately hurt us, why not go all the way back? Why do we need the Al? A strength coach? Tutors? Because our competition all has them? Shouldn't matter. We're Marquette. We're entitled. Like we were in the late 70s and early 80s when $$$ came to college basketball and we didn't keep up. How'd it work out that time?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What no OD on that list? At least if they lived there someone might use the "man cave"

You know I love the OD. Lived there two years. But you don't love it until after your there. Going in you hate it

[tower912]

I loved Carpenter Tower.   Closet space, private bathroom great view of the Marquette Interchange, short walk to Hegarty's, short walk to Johnston Hall.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

We had the momentum Buzz had produced and for a moment at least we have the excitement of an energetic new coach. But if you think doing things on the cheap and going back to an era where our basketball players live in dumps like Schroeder and McCormick won't ultimately hurt us, why not go all the way back? Why do we need the Al? A strength coach? Tutors? Because our competition all has them? Shouldn't matter. We're Marquette. We're entitled. Like we were in the late 70s and early 80s when $$$ came to college basketball and we didn't keep up. How'd it work out that time?

Look, I'm not against updating dorms. I'm asking what it gives us.  As I stated earlier, I think it should be done, however, for the benefit of all the students and not just a few.  There is a benefit, IMO, that these guys are actually part of the community and not sheltered away from their peers.

I understand your argument completely, no one is saying go back....that is just you pushing a red herring.  One could easily flip your argument that if we don't do all these things we won't be successful....well then why not take it to the other extreme and if we don't have our own on campus gym, we're screwed.  If we don't start football immediately and get us into a FBS division, we're done for.  If we don't allow anyone with a pulse to have admittance to the university as a basketball player, we will never win another game.  Equally illogical, but really no different than the argument you are making.

I suspect the answer is somewhere in the middle.  If you're going to put the money into it, then fine, but the argument then is a "keep up with the Joneses" argument, because today we are recruiting just fine and have for the last 15 years.  We should also be asking the question if we want student athletes to be part of the community in an integrated fashion, or separate.  IMO

[ChicosBailBonds]

You know I love the OD. Lived there two years. But you don't love it until after your there. Going in you hate it

I loved the OD, because it was all chicks when I was there.  Good times.

[Lennys Tap]

I understand your argument completely, no one is saying go back....that is just you pushing a red herring. 

No one is saying go back? Really? We already did go back, to a "pre Humphrey" dorm policy. This policy means poorer facilities for our student athletes. Which you applaud. Fine, but if poorer facilities make no difference to recruiting why not go back and cut some more corners? I'm sure we'd be fine. Not.

[ChicosBailBonds]

No one is saying go back? Really? We already did go back, to a "pre Humphrey" dorm policy. This policy means poorer facilities for our student athletes. Which you applaud. Fine, but if poorer facilities make no difference to recruiting why not go back and cut some more corners? I'm sure we'd be fine. Not.

No, I applaud better facilities for the student body, of which student athletes are part of.  I'd like to see the student athletes be part of the community more.

In my opinion, my solution is a win win.  Build better facilities that improve the standards for all the students, including student athletes.  That eliminates the "poorer facilities" argument, and it also makes student athletes integrate with their peers and not just put them up on a pedestal and segregated from their peers.  Is that approach not ok?  Seems to work at many institutions with athletic success far greater than ours.

[Lennys Tap]

No, I applaud better facilities for the student body, of which student athletes are part of.  I'd like to see the student athletes be part of the community more.

In my opinion, my solution is a win win.  Build better facilities that improve the standards for all the students, including student athletes.  That eliminates the "poorer facilities" argument, and it also makes student athletes integrate with their peers and not just put them up on a pedestal and segregated from their peers.  Is that approach not ok?  Seems to work at many institutions with athletic success far greater than ours.

So 10 years from now (or 20) when the dorms are updated, everyone will be happy and we won't be at a competitive disadvantage anymore. Great. Wouldn't it be better to update the dorms first?

[NersEllenson]

You know I love the OD. Lived there two years. But you don't love it until after your there. Going in you hate it

Hey, we agree on something.  Agree 100% with your sentiments. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

So 10 years from now (or 20) when the dorms are updated, everyone will be happy and we won't be at a competitive disadvantage anymore. Great. Wouldn't it be better to update the dorms first?

Again, show me where this competitive disadvantage is not just in your head and is manifest in reality?

Kids pick schools for all kinds of reasons, the #1 reason is usually the coach, followed by things like the tradition of program or the ability to get them to the next level, etc.  Where they sleep at night is usually far down the list and for some reason, both regular students and student athletes continue to come to MU despite apparently only 4 walls, a ceiling, a floor and bed at their disposal.  

Why would it take 10 or 20 years?  Schroeder was renovated, Mashuda, Straz, Abbotsford as well. 

10 worst dorms in America...Va Tech made the list, hope Buzz can recruit there.  G'Town made the list.  Illinois made the list.  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/09/the-10-worst-dorms-in-ame_n_833341.html

Meanwhile, amongst the best in the nation were Georgia State, LaSalle, Winona State, and Loyola of Maryland (yes Nova and Missouri also made the list)....look for them on ESPN tonight due to their recruiting prowess of student athletes.  http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/03/09/ranking-the-residences-georgia-state-tops-nations-best-college-dorms/

[Galway Eagle]

You know I love the OD. Lived there two years. But you don't love it until after your there. Going in you hate it

I enjoyed it as much as I disliked it.  It was fun but it was annoying to have to sneak my GF in and out in my lacrosse bag plus kinda wished for urinals. 

[SaveOD238]

I gotta share a story I heard from my brother, who was an RA in Carpenter last year.  He told me that the basketball players who lived there were extremely friendly, especially Deonte Burton.  He also told me that occasionally the players would attend hall programs!  As a former RA myself (TAMU and I ruled the roost in OD for two years) I know how hard it is to get kids to come to hall programs, especially the "I'm too cool for this" type.  My brother told me that DB and the other players participated in a "Minute to Win It" type program and were some of the most engaged, competitive, and excited people there.  Apparently DB won a couple of medals!

When I was at MU, the players were all cloistered in Humphrey, where they never interacted with the student body.  Sure, the living arrangements in the dorms aren't as plush as in Humphrey, but I think it has been good for our players to get to interact with other students.  Wherever they end up, I hope it's not somewhere secluded from everyone else.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I gotta share a story I heard from my brother, who was an RA in Carpenter last year.  He told me that the basketball players who lived there were extremely friendly, especially Deonte Burton.  He also told me that occasionally the players would attend hall programs!  As a former RA myself (TAMU and I ruled the roost in OD for two years) I know how hard it is to get kids to come to hall programs, especially the "I'm too cool for this" type.  My brother told me that DB and the other players participated in a "Minute to Win It" type program and were some of the most engaged, competitive, and excited people there.  Apparently DB won a couple of medals!

When I was at MU, the players were all cloistered in Humphrey, where they never interacted with the student body.  Sure, the living arrangements in the dorms aren't as plush as in Humphrey, but I think it has been good for our players to get to interact with other students.  Wherever they end up, I hope it's not somewhere secluded from everyone else.

Good to hear.  That's what I'm talking about....immersion with their peers.  Good for everybody.  These guys aren't going to be on a pedestal their whole lives, best for them to understand that early and learn to communicate and participate with mere mortals.

[jesmu84]

Good to hear.  That's what I'm talking about....immersion with their peers.  Good for everybody.  These guys aren't going to be on a pedestal their whole lives, best for them to understand that early and learn to communicate and participate with mere mortals.

Like you've said, there are many ways to skin a cat. There are going to be some recruits who see UK's fancy pretty much athlete only dorm and be attracted to it. There will be others who want to be part of a community on the university. Just got to find the best talent that is the right fit for the program, coach, etc.

[GGGG]

I gotta share a story I heard from my brother, who was an RA in Carpenter last year.  He told me that the basketball players who lived there were extremely friendly, especially Deonte Burton.  He also told me that occasionally the players would attend hall programs!  As a former RA myself (TAMU and I ruled the roost in OD for two years) I know how hard it is to get kids to come to hall programs, especially the "I'm too cool for this" type.  My brother told me that DB and the other players participated in a "Minute to Win It" type program and were some of the most engaged, competitive, and excited people there.  Apparently DB won a couple of medals!

When I was at MU, the players were all cloistered in Humphrey, where they never interacted with the student body.  Sure, the living arrangements in the dorms aren't as plush as in Humphrey, but I think it has been good for our players to get to interact with other students.  Wherever they end up, I hope it's not somewhere secluded from everyone else.

This is a great story.  Thank you for sharing.  I think it speaks a lot to who Deonte Burton is as well as some of the benefits of integrating student athletes into residence halls.

That being said, it *does* put Marquette at a recruiting disadvantage.  So there has to be a balance.  Do you build something like Kentucky has?  No, I don't think so.  Do you go back to putting everyone in Humphrey?  That isn't going to happen either.

But building a nicer residence hall that can keep the team closer as teammates, not be used as a negative for recruiting purposes, all while making sure that the student athletes are integrated into the student body is a good thing.  The new residence hall at UW is a good example of that. 

[🏀]

Hall programs, ha!