Ray Rice let go by Ravens

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm glad the former head of the FBI is being brought in to investigate.  Smart move on the NFL's part.  Bring a credible, independent party.  Won't matter, of course, to many people who have their minds made up.

I don't believe Roger to be a liar in every dealing we've ever had with him.  I would be shocked if he is, absolutely shocked.

One owner tonight said the same thing publicly....good man, not a liar, etc.....but also said if he is , then he's gone...no surprise as that would be a no brainer.  It's also why I don't believe he is lying and would be totally out of character for him as a person. 

We'll see how it shakes out.

[MUsoxfan]

I'm glad the former head of the FBI is being brought in to investigate.  Smart move on the NFL's part.  Bring a credible, independent party.  Won't matter, of course, to many people who have their minds made up.

I don't believe Roger to be a liar in every dealing we've ever had with him.  I would be shocked if he is, absolutely shocked.

One owner tonight said the same thing publicly....good man, not a liar, etc.....but also said if he is , then he's gone...no surprise as that would be a no brainer.  It's also why I don't believe he is lying and would be totally out of character for him as a person. 

We'll see how it shakes out.

So you don't have a problem with the firm that the NFL has on retainer doing "independent research" on the NFL?

[jesmu84]

I'm glad the former head of the FBI is being brought in to investigate.  Smart move on the NFL's part.  Bring a credible, independent party.  Won't matter, of course, to many people who have their minds made up.

I don't believe Roger to be a liar in every dealing we've ever had with him.  I would be shocked if he is, absolutely shocked.

One owner tonight said the same thing publicly....good man, not a liar, etc.....but also said if he is , then he's gone...no surprise as that would be a no brainer.  It's also why I don't believe he is lying and would be totally out of character for him as a person. 

We'll see how it shakes out.

Credible, yes. Independent... eh...

[GGGG]

$$$ is her lord

This is what annoys me...it's not as though Goodell is irreplaceable.  The Bears will make money regardless of who the commissioner is.

[martyconlonontherun]

I'm glad the former head of the FBI is being brought in to investigate.  Smart move on the NFL's part.  Bring a credible, independent party.  Won't matter, of course, to many people who have their minds made up.

I don't believe Roger to be a liar in every dealing we've ever had with him.  I would be shocked if he is, absolutely shocked.

One owner tonight said the same thing publicly....good man, not a liar, etc.....but also said if he is , then he's gone...no surprise as that would be a no brainer.  It's also why I don't believe he is lying and would be totally out of character for him as a person. 

We'll see how it shakes out.

He doesn't have to a be liar. He just cared more about PR than what actually happened. It seems like they knew the lawyer had the tape and the NFL had the leverage. They easily could have said "if the story happened like you said, let's see the tape and you get two games. If not we assume the worse since you aren't willing to cooperate with our investigation. It's important to cooperate with the investigation and be as honest as possible." Instead they took his word and his wife's word at face value despite them both having huge financial reasons to lie. Honestly if they said they were keeping at two games after the video came out, I would be ok with it. Its a private business and if they feel they shouldn't be the judge and jury in private matters, it's their call. It's the fake moral outrage they are showing is disgusting.

[martyconlonontherun]

And if they didn't know about the tape, the ravens did and they should be punished for hiding a key part of the investigation. There's just know way they didn't have access to the tape without complete incompetence, someone covering something up (which that person should be publicly fired), or a willful lack of investigation into the tape.

[GGGG]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/what-does-it-take-to-get-roger-goodell-fired-2/

Some excerpts...

"If owners don’t really care about the NFL setting some grand standard for the rest of society, that’s totally fine. But Monday should scare them. If the NFL ever really loses supremacy in sports and culture, Monday is a good preview of what that looks like. The league will become such a mess that nobody can bring themselves to care about the actual games."

and

"However you feel about football, there are big questions this league has to ask itself over the next few years, and it’s hard to believe Roger Goodell’s the right man to answer them. After almost a decade running the league, he’s getting worse, not better. He’s consistently two steps behind public opinion and miles away from ever actually solving anything."

[NavinRJohnson]

I'm not going to watch the Ravens/Steelers game tomorrow. Not that it matters/makes a difference, but I can't in good faith to myself, as a husband/dad to a young daughter...I just can't. I know I'll watch games on Sunday and can be called a hypocrite then, but I'll tell you what, I know I'm not going to feel good about it. If fall/pumpkin places opened this weekend (most in Chicago burbs open the weekend of the 20th), I'd probably rather be at one of those places all day Sunday then watching the NFL.

And herein really lies the problem, because you are absolutely right. Ultimately we are the fuel that powers the machine. They same applies with the whole NCAA $, paying players' etc. We complain about this stuff, get outraged, etc., but until we stop filing through those turnstiles and turning on those TVs, there is little appetite or incentive to really do anything about any of it (myself included - understand, this comes from a guy who has difficulty reconciling my own positions on a lot of this stuff).  As fans, we have to hope that public outcry and at least the threat of serious impact on revenue, will provide enough incentive for the NFL, NCAA, etc. to listen and appropriately set priorities.

Now all of that said, the NFL did ultimately make Ray Rice go away. Too late, and clearly demonstrated they were motivated by the wrong reasons and don't really care about what happened, but he is gone. So that's a start. Same goes for all of the concussion, modern day gladiator stuff, etc., if they can demonstrate that they can operate in a clear, consistent manner, balancing moral/ethical behavior with the need to make money, then I think we can all watch to our heart's content without feeling the need to take a shower after. If they can't, and we all continue to tune in to it all, well, then frankly we forfeit our right to complain.

[jesmu84]

And herein really lies the problem, because you are absolutely right. Ultimately we are the fuel that powers the machine. They same applies with the whole NCAA $, paying players' etc. We complain about this stuff, get outraged, etc., but until we stop filing through those turnstiles and turning on those TVs, there is little appetite or incentive to really do anything about any of it (myself included - understand, this comes from a guy who has difficulty reconciling my own positions on a lot of this stuff).  As fans, we have to hope that public outcry and at least the threat of serious impact on revenue, will provide enough incentive for the NFL, NCAA, etc. to listen and appropriately set priorities.

Now all of that said, the NFL did ultimately make Ray Rice go away. Too late, and clearly demonstrated they were motivated by the wrong reasons and don't really care about what happened, but he is gone. So that's a start. Same goes for all of the concussion, modern day gladiator stuff, etc., if they can demonstrate that they can operate in a clear, consistent manner, balancing moral/ethical behavior with the need to make money, then I think we can all watch to our heart's content without feeling the need to take a shower after. If they can't, and we all continue to tune in to it all, well, then frankly we forfeit our right to complain.

do you think rice should have a lifetime ban? Further, Why did Ray rice have to go away? Why is Greg hardy still allowed to play? Why was donte stallworth allowed to come back?

The nfl needs to establish consistency in their decisions.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So you don't have a problem with the firm that the NFL has on retainer doing "independent research" on the NFL?

I trust the integrity of Mueller.  For the record, we have also worked with him and his firm.   The Pope could do the investigation, and people would say Goodell is Catholic and therefore the Pope shouldn't be involved.  There are ethical people in this world that can be independent.

As I stated above, it doesn't matter to many people.

I'm just thrilled NOW is weighing in now.  From 1992 to 2000 they were on vacation, especially 1997 to 1999...I thought they disbanded.  Good to see they are actually alive again and functioning.  Always interesting to see who they come out against.

[ChicosBailBonds]

There is a lot of bad publicity going on for the NFL right now.  Regardless of when they saw "the video" it is time for Goddell to resign immediately.  Ultimately he is responsible and it is his job to find these things out.  He either failed to find out what really happened (get the video) or worse saw the video and didn't properly act on the information.

Either way he needs to resign immediately.  He should also apologize to women and fans everywhere.

Also, the Ravens have no credibility here.  Heck they are building a monument to Ray Lewis.

Already apologized to women and fans.  If he lied, or if he knew someone saw the video then I would agree with you about the resignation.  He'll have no support from the owners.  If the investigation turns up that isn't the case, he won't need to resign.  Let it play out.

What does a monument to Ray Lewis have to do with this incident.  We have due process in this country.  I don't like Ray Lewis, don't like the squirmy nature around him, but he is guilty of nothing that I'm aware of.  They put a statue up because he was a great player, etc.  I

MU Dish isn't going to watch the game, ok.  I mean, anyone can take a stand on anything.  Is he going to stop watching NBA games?  Did he boycott MU games for the sexual assault on a female student?  You can take this to the nth degree.  If BladeRunner Oscar is in the next Olympics, does he boycott watching that race?  

To each their own.  I think most people watch sports for the love of the competition, the excitement, etc.  

The greatest irony in all of this, we have folks in this thread (myself included) that elect officials each election that commit acts that are 10X worse than what what Goodell has done, and nary a word for their resignations....and worse, people keep voting them back in because they have the right letter next to their name.    I guess we really stand on principles.

[GGGG]

I trust the integrity of Mueller.  For the record, we have also worked with him and his firm.   The Pope could do the investigation, and people would say Goodell is Catholic and therefore the Pope shouldn't be involved.  There are ethical people in this world that can be independent.

As I stated above, it doesn't matter to many people.

I'm just thrilled NOW is weighing in now.  From 1992 to 2000 they were on vacation, especially 1997 to 1999...I thought they disbanded.  Good to see they are actually alive again and functioning.  Always interesting to see who they come out against.

Keep building those strawmen.  It really is your best debating technique.

[GGGG]

Already apologized to women and fans.  If he lied, or if he knew someone saw the video then I would agree with you about the resignation.  He'll have no support from the owners.  If the investigation turns up that isn't the case, he won't need to resign.  Let it play out.

What does a monument to Ray Lewis have to do with this incident.  We have due process in this country.  I don't like Ray Lewis, don't like the squirmy nature around him, but he is guilty of nothing that I'm aware of.  They put a statue up because he was a great player, etc.  I

MU Dish isn't going to watch the game, ok.  I mean, anyone can take a stand on anything.  Is he going to stop watching NBA games?  Did he boycott MU games for the sexual assault on a female student?  You can take this to the nth degree.  If BladeRunner Oscar is in the next Olympics, does he boycott watching that race? 

To each their own.  I think most people watch sports for the love of the competition, the excitement, etc. 

Ray Lewis is not guilty of anything?  He plead guilty to obstruction of justice in a murder investigation. 

And not a single MU player was arrested for sexual assault, yet you manage to bring it up repeatedly when it suits your narrative.

Really sickening.

[Benny B]

I just hate when people make a point to say the NFL is tax free. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if they weren't tax exempt it wouldn't matter since teams are taxed at that level and nonprofits go through the NFL.

Tax-free is not the same as tax exempt.  Tax-free simply implies that the organization is not-for-profit.

[LAZER]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/what-does-it-take-to-get-roger-goodell-fired-2/

Some excerpts...

"If owners don’t really care about the NFL setting some grand standard for the rest of society, that’s totally fine. But Monday should scare them. If the NFL ever really loses supremacy in sports and culture, Monday is a good preview of what that looks like. The league will become such a mess that nobody can bring themselves to care about the actual games."

and

"However you feel about football, there are big questions this league has to ask itself over the next few years, and it’s hard to believe Roger Goodell’s the right man to answer them. After almost a decade running the league, he’s getting worse, not better. He’s consistently two steps behind public opinion and miles away from ever actually solving anything."

I think this sums it up pretty well.  The guy hasn't been doing a good job over the last few years and if I'm an owner I'd be real concerned with the public perception of the league right now and Goodell is far from irreplaceable.

[DegenerateDish]

MU Dish isn't going to watch the game, ok.  I mean, anyone can take a stand on anything.  Is he going to stop watching NBA games?  Did he boycott MU games for the sexual assault on a female student?  You can take this to the nth degree.  If BladeRunner Oscar is in the next Olympics, does he boycott watching that race?  

To each their own.  I think most people watch sports for the love of the competition, the excitement, etc.  

My home office is decorated with Bears/NFL stuff. Pictures of me with various members of Bears players/members of the organization. Pictures of me on the field when I worked for the team. My game day field passes, all kinds of stuff. Clearly from my posts on here, I love professional football.

That's what my kids see everyday, they know Daddy loves football.

If I can in some form, use this as a teaching experience for my son/daughter, you're DAMN right I'm going to. Will it make one second of difference to anyone else? No. And I don't give an F. But if I can somehow use it as a teaching experience, that there is a time now where Daddy doesn't feel it's a positive experience to watch the NFL right now, and teach them why...I'm going to do it for them. Stand on your high horse all you want Chicos, I don't really give a crap what you think.

[Benny B]

I'm not going to watch the Ravens/Steelers game tomorrow. Not that it matters/makes a difference, but I can't in good faith to myself, as a husband/dad to a young daughter...I just can't. I know I'll watch games on Sunday and can be called a hypocrite then, but I'll tell you what, I know I'm not going to feel good about it. If fall/pumpkin places opened this weekend (most in Chicago burbs open the weekend of the 20th), I'd probably rather be at one of those places all day Sunday then watching the NFL.

Not me.  There won't be any football games on this weekend at my house.  I'd rather spend some time with my son and two daughters.

But I'm not "boycotting" the NFL.... I've been on the fence between NFL apathy and interest for quite some time.  It's become more evident every year that football has become nothing more than a bridge that gets me from baseball to college hoops every fall.  Thanks for burning down the bridge, Roger.

[MUsoxfan]

Already apologized to women and fans.  

Oh, he did? Then everything's cool. Let's everyone carry on like none of this ever happened. I mean, he threw out an empty apology and all

[brandx]

I'm glad the former head of the FBI is being brought in to investigate.  Smart move on the NFL's part.  Bring a credible, independent party.  Won't matter, of course, to many people who have their minds made up.

I love how the word independent is used. This is not an independent investigation.

The "former head of the FBI" will be overseen by two of Goodell's closest supporters among the owners.

[GGGG]

And herein lies the problem.  The "independent investigation" is already being attacked for its lack of independence, so even if the NFL wins the battle regarding its knowledge of the recording, it will lose the battle on whether or not the investigation was biased.

Another dumb decision in a series of dumb decisions. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

No. I've read in this thread that Goodell and the NFL are above reproach. They're too rich and powerful to be wrong or greedy

Said no one here, ever.

Let it play out.  If they lied, repercussions will be immense.  I would be shocked and disappointed if he did, but we'll find out one way or another.

[LAZER]

I trust the integrity of Mueller.  For the record, we have also worked with him and his firm.   The Pope could do the investigation, and people would say Goodell is Catholic and therefore the Pope shouldn't be involved.  There are ethical people in this world that can be independent.

Why not just use somebody else?  Why even bother bringing a conflict of interest into it?

[swoopem]

I love how the word independent is used. This is not an independent investigation.

The "former head of the FBI" will be overseen by two of Goodell's closest supporters among the owners.

Jonathon Vilma tweeted this morning "The NFL hires an independent investigator. That's code for "give us a minute to get our story straight". Can't backtrack anymore huh"

Another great tweet was last night James Harrison tweeted at Goodell "aint no fun when the rabbits got the gun huh"

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think this sums it up pretty well.  The guy hasn't been doing a good job over the last few years and if I'm an owner I'd be real concerned with the public perception of the league right now and Goodell is far from irreplaceable.

The owners don't agree with you in terms of performance past few years and they pay his salary.

Everyone is replaceable.  They can make the change if they wish and will if they need to.

[GGGG]

Why not just use somebody else?  Why even bother bringing a conflict of interest into it?

I think the thought is that you have to someone who knows where the bodies are buried - someone that has a working knowledge of the organization.  That is why they brought Tagliabue in on the bountygate issue, but Tags kind of beat them up about that even though he upheld the rulings.