MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: muwarrior69 on September 08, 2014, 02:25:22 PM
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http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/08/us/ray-rice-new-video/
Looks like he gone for good.
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http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/08/us/ray-rice-new-video/
Looks like he gone for good.
Some of the hits that Harbaugh and others took might be softened now a bit. I say that only if they didn't see the video, which I suspect Harbaugh, the team and NFL did not, despite requests for the video from law enforcement. Video is damning. Now, should they have done more earlier on? Many people will say yes. I've always wondered what knocked her out...a punch, or a slight push where she hit her head, etc. Clearly, it was the punch which is now there for everyone to see. Now people can stop complaining about the 2 game suspension.
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Some of the hits that Harbaugh and others took might be softened now a bit. I say that only if they didn't see the video, which I suspect Harbaugh, the team and NFL did not, despite requests for the video from law enforcement. Video is damning. Now, should they have done more earlier on? Many people will say yes. I've always wondered what knocked her out...a punch, or a slight push where she hit her head, etc. Clearly, it was the punch which is now there for everyone to see. Now people can stop complaining about the 2 game suspension.
Until the Raiders sign him to a 4 year deal.
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Until the Raiders sign him to a 4 year deal.
LOL.
By the way, before one of my fans here goes all bent crazy, I'm not condoning a push, a slap, a punch, etc. My point was that what may have been described to the Ravens or NFL could have been one thing, while the video shows something entirely different. I'm glad I took Rice's backup in Fantasy, though he clearly sucked yesterday.
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Some of the hits that Harbaugh and others took might be softened now a bit. I say that only if they didn't see the video, which I suspect Harbaugh, the team and NFL did not, despite requests for the video from law enforcement. Video is damning. Now, should they have done more earlier on? Many people will say yes. I've always wondered what knocked her out...a punch, or a slight push where she hit her head, etc. Clearly, it was the punch which is now there for everyone to see. Now people can stop complaining about the 2 game suspension.
So TMZ is able to get the video, but the NFL can not? Sounds ridiculous to me.
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I'm not at all buying that the NFL didn't see this video before. Doesn't pass the smell test
Also, is there anything more hilarious that watching Ray Lewis talk about morals and ethics in this situation?
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I'm not at all buying that the NFL didn't see this video before. Doesn't pass the smell test
Also, is there anything more hilarious that watching Ray Lewis talk about morals and ethics in this situation?
On the flip side of that, I find it really hard to believe that if they did see the video that they would not have expected it to leak. That is a damning video if I ever did see one and you have to assume that those things get out. Maybe they did see it, but the NFL guys I have dealt with over the years are pretty damn smart and this would be a major miss by them if they did see it and reacted accordingly.
Until I see some evidence that suggests they really did see it, I'm assuming they didn't because they would have acted differently knowing the video would come out eventually.
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On the flip side of that, I find it really hard to believe that if they did see the video that they would not have expected it to leak. That is a damning video if I ever did see one and you have to assume that those things get out. Maybe they did see it, but the NFL guys I have dealt with over the years are pretty damn smart and this would be a major miss by them if they did see it and reacted accordingly.
Until I see some evidence that suggests they really did see it, I'm assuming they didn't because they would have acted differently knowing the video would come out eventually.
Does this count at all?
http://deadspin.com/has-peter-king-read-his-own-reporting-on-the-ray-rice-f-1631901579
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Does this count at all?
http://deadspin.com/has-peter-king-read-his-own-reporting-on-the-ray-rice-f-1631901579
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/09/08/ray-rice-nfl-domestic-violence-video-peter-king/
A bunch of us were talking about it this afternoon and we all deal with the NFL. To a man, we would be surprised if they gave that level of suspension and had seen the tape. They are so risk averse and calculate risk in everything that they do, we would be very surprised if they actually thought this video wasn't going to get out. We might be totally wrong, in which case we would be very surprised. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
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http://mmqb.si.com/2014/09/08/ray-rice-nfl-domestic-violence-video-peter-king/
A bunch of us were talking about it this afternoon and we all deal with the NFL. To a man, we would be surprised if they gave that level of suspension and had seen the tape. They are so risk averse and calculate risk in everything that they do, we would be very surprised if they actually thought this video wasn't going to get out. We might be totally wrong, in which case we would be very surprised. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Pffft. If they were risk averse they would have done more than the 2 game suspension initially.
What I don't get is why people are so upset now. Yes, it's an awful video.. but when he came out and admitted to hitting her, did they think he didn't really hit her? Cripes. "Oh, NOW that I've seen it, I am mad! I got over it when it was just admitted to by the loser."
Anyway, just another scumball. Hope she doesn't stay with dude, but that's how it often works.
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I'm not at all buying that the NFL didn't see this video before. Doesn't pass the smell test
Also, is there anything more hilarious that watching Ray Lewis talk about morals and ethics in this situation?
right on jes-if they didn't see it, they didn't want to see it. some where, robin givens is going OUCH! damn girl, that looked like it hurt. even mike tyson is embarrassed :o and ray lewis is his sponsor in the sensitivity training sessions ;D
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right on jes-if they didn't see it, they didn't want to see it. some where, robin givens is going OUCH! damn girl, that looked like it hurt. even mike tyson is embarrassed :o and ray lewis is his sponsor in the sensitivity training sessions ;D
And Michael Irvin and Johnny Football are giving "moral" support.
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Pffft. If they were risk averse they would have done more than the 2 game suspension initially.
What I don't get is why people are so upset now. Yes, it's an awful video.. but when he came out and admitted to hitting her, did they think he didn't really hit her? Cripes. "Oh, NOW that I've seen it, I am mad! I got over it when it was just admitted to by the loser."
Anyway, just another scumball. Hope she doesn't stay with dude, but that's how it often works.
We'll see how it shakes out, but if they did see the video and only did 2 games, that's crazy and not something I would expect from them.
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I'm guessing we'll find out if the NFL/Ravens knew about the video before today eventually. In the meantime, shouldn't Goodell step down? Has he screwed up enough lately and enough with this one incident to instill a lack of confidence in his leadership?
Also, the Ravens, including their fans, are a terrible organization.
http://www.barstoolsports.com/iowa/super-page/keith-olbermann-just-ripped-roger-goodell-and-everybody-involved-with-the-ray-rice-situation-a-new-pretty boy/
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I don't know. Goodell has made a lot of money for his owners. And they like money.
What would concern me however is that the NFL seems to be concerned over short term money gains, but I am wondering if some of these are at the expense of its long-term brand.
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I don't know. Goodell has made a lot of money for his owners. And they like money.
What would concern me however is that the NFL seems to be concerned over short term money gains, but I am wondering if some of these are at the expense of its long-term brand.
So they're just like every other corporation?
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http://www.barstoolsports.com/m/boston/super-page/tmz-says-they-have-proof-roger-goodell-knew-about-the-2nd-ray-rice-video-but-does-it-really-matter/
Here's a good question posed: why did the second video matter? Why did it change things? Is it just a matter of perception? I'm fairly sure rice admitted he hit her. And we saw her being unconscious. A public leak of the video makes everyone scurry to cover their asses. Everyone should be ashamed
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BTW, what about the brilliance of TMZ releasing this stuff on the NFL's opening weekend. Just when they thought this stuff blew over, and are at the brink of celebrating getting "back to football," TMZ connects with this body blow.
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I'm guessing we'll find out if the NFL/Ravens knew about the video before today eventually. In the meantime, shouldn't Goodell step down? Has he screwed up enough lately and enough with this one incident to instill a lack of confidence in his leadership?
Also, the Ravens, including their fans, are a terrible organization.
http://www.barstoolsports.com/iowa/super-page/keith-olbermann-just-ripped-roger-goodell-and-everybody-involved-with-the-ray-rice-situation-a-new-pretty boy/
The owners employ the commissioner. He had helped to bring labor peace, a ton of revenue, about to have a performance enhancing drug policy for the first time ever, etc.
I'm just curious, what is it that you think he has screwed up that would lead to him stepping down?
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So they're just like every other corporation?
No most corporations have a better understanding of public relations than the NFL does. There is absolutely nothing wrong with making money. But doing everything you can to make every single dime you can, but at the cost of eroding your brand image, isn't a step most corporations will take.
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http://www.barstoolsports.com/m/boston/super-page/tmz-says-they-have-proof-roger-goodell-knew-about-the-2nd-ray-rice-video-but-does-it-really-matter/
Here's a good question posed: why did the second video matter? Why did it change things? Is it just a matter of perception? I'm fairly sure rice admitted he hit her. And we saw her being unconscious. A public leak of the video makes everyone scurry to cover their asses. Everyone should be ashamed
Honestly, I do think it matters. The story he gave and his wife (then fiance stated) is that he was acting in self defense. She hit him multiple times, she claimed, and he reacted and hit her in self defense. Did he knock her out, did her head hit something, was it a punch or a slap, etc, etc. No one knew, only what both parties stated. Looking at the video, it's hard to claim self defense despite what both said, though I could see someone say she is lungeing at him in the elevator....who knows. Point is, if both parties are saying that, what is the NFL supposed to do IF (IF IF IF) they have not seen a video and don't know the circumstances in full?
I think the video does matter. You're under the assumption that there was an ass to be covered. If, in fact, they never saw the video, then they can only take the information they have from the parties involved. Right?
Like it or not, video evidence is always going to change things, sometimes the other way. I've seen stories where one party claims such and such happened and it was a brutal attack, etc, and the video shows quite the contrary. Yet if that video evidence didn't exist, that person's story could have really screwed the other party.
Check out the video today of a bunch of youths beating the crap out of three people in Memphis. It's pretty dramatic. Now, if that video didn't exist and it was just a matter of a story claiming an assault without the video evidence, I'm not sure it means the same thing. Imagine if we had video in what happened in Ferguson, it would change dramatically how everyone feels about things because no one really knows what happened.
Yes, the video matters.
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So they're just like every other corporation?
I'm not even sure what this is even supposed to mean, other than a very broad brush is being painted.
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I'd add that the District Attorney didn't pursue this, which is interesting to me. They allowed him to enter a diversionary program. Now again, IF (IF IF IF) the Ravens and\or NFL didn't see the video and the prosecution's office is basically letting go to a program, AND his wife is saying it was partly her fault, etc, etc....what are the Ravens and NFL supposed to do?
Now, IF (IF IF IF IF) they did see the video, then of course it's a totally different issue. I'd like to know what the prosecutorial office's take on this was to move in the direction they did.
I'm sure interesting days ahead.
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Chicos, OF COURSE the NFL, the Ravens, Roger Goodell and all relative law enforcement saw this video.
Do you honestly believe that Harvey Levin has been in sole possession of this tape since jump street?
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Chicos, OF COURSE the NFL, the Ravens, Roger Goodell and all relative law enforcement saw this video.
Do you honestly believe that Harvey Levin has been in sole possession of this tape since jump street?
You have proof of this, or more conjecture on your part?
Do I think TMZ paid for it, sure. Do I think they have had it the whole time? Unlikely. Do I think law enforcement saw it? Yes. Why did law enforcement not do anything about it? Great question.
Do I think the Ravens and the NFL saw it, not so sure. When you say "of course", that means you have definitive proof that is the case. You don't have any such proof.
Let it play out, right now you are just guessing and nothing more. Maybe they did see it, but until the facts come out no one knows.
Do you think they were stupid enough to see the video and expect it would never be released? I have a lot harder time believing that, quite frankly....but anything is possible.
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I'd add that the District Attorney didn't pursue this, which is interesting to me. They allowed him to enter a diversionary program. Now again, IF (IF IF IF) the Ravens and\or NFL didn't see the video and the prosecution's office is basically letting go to a program, AND his wife is saying it was partly her fault, etc, etc....what are the Ravens and NFL supposed to do?
Now, IF (IF IF IF IF) they did see the video, then of course it's a totally different issue. I'd like to know what the prosecutorial office's take on this was to move in the direction they did.
I'm sure interesting days ahead.
Ray Rice was rich and famous. The prosecutorial office did not pursue it, because they take kid gloves to the vast majority of the rich and famous. The NFL and Ravens almost assuredly saw the video, but figured it would never see the light of day or if it did the public outcry would not be as bad as it had been.
It came out very soon while there was still negative publicity from the kid glove treatment of Rice, that led to a worst case scenario of public outcry. They then acted and began to cover up what they knew and when.
Really pretty standard behavior, this demonstrates a lot of what is wrong these days.
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Ray Rice was rich and famous. The prosecutorial office did not pursue it, because they take kid gloves to the vast majority of the rich and famous. The NFL and Ravens almost assuredly saw the video, but figured it would never see the light of day or if it did the public outcry would not be as bad as it had been.
It came out very soon while there was still negative publicity from the kid glove treatment of Rice, that led to a worst case scenario of public outcry. They then acted and began to cover up what they knew and when.
Really pretty standard behavior, this demonstrates a lot of what is wrong these days.
I guess we'll find out eventually...I don't disagree with you on famous people getting special treatment, it definitely happens....could tell you some fun stories about Packers, Cowboys, etc over the years, though usually it is the local cops that let the local players off. Rice was in Atlantic City. Who knows.
Still have a hard time with the NFL having seen the video. Though a colleague of mine that deals with the NFL exclusively for his gig told me this tonight. He believes the NFL did not see the video before the 2 game suspension was given. Now, if you break that down, he might be suggesting they saw the video AFTER the 2 game suspension was given and that could have led to Goodell's letter to the NFL owners saying he didn't make the right call and instituted the new 6 game suspension for first offense and lifetime for second. I may be reading too much into his words.
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Willfull ignorance if the NFL and the Raven organization didn't see this video before yesterday. It was in a casino hotel, there are cameras everywhere and everyone knows it. If they didn't see it, they went out of their way to not see it.
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Honestly, I do think it matters. The story he gave and his wife (then fiance stated) is that he was acting in self defense. She hit him multiple times, she claimed, and he reacted and hit her in self defense. Did he knock her out, did her head hit something, was it a punch or a slap, etc, etc. No one knew, only what both parties stated. Looking at the video, it's hard to claim self defense despite what both said, though I could see someone say she is lungeing at him in the elevator....who knows. Point is, if both parties are saying that, what is the NFL supposed to do IF (IF IF IF) they have not seen a video and don't know the circumstances in full?
Give me a break already. Regardless of whether they saw this video, (I'm sure they did), there was still the original video of him dragging her unconscious out of the elevator. Even bringing into the conversation a possible self-defense idea is disgusting. He has how many pounds and how much strength on her? He knocked her out. The bottom line is that law enforcement and the NFL both gave Rice less than a slap on the wrist, and this second video should never have been needed in the first place for a stiffer punishment.
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Fantasy football is so popular among women lately, perhaps not so much after this event? That could be a $ hit the NFL feels since men will probably not stop watching just because of this but women...?
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Willfull ignorance if the NFL and the Raven organization didn't see this video before yesterday. It was in a casino hotel, there are cameras everywhere and everyone knows it. If they didn't see it, they went out of their way to not see it.
That's far different than they did see it, which were the claims here yesterday.
Also, just because you want them to see it or you feel they should have seen it, doesn't mean they have the legal right to see it, especially during an active investigation.
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Give me a break already. Regardless of whether they saw this video, (I'm sure they did), there was still the original video of him dragging her unconscious out of the elevator. Even bringing into the conversation a possible self-defense idea is disgusting. He has how many pounds and how much strength on her? He knocked her out. The bottom line is that law enforcement and the NFL both gave Rice less than a slap on the wrist, and this second video should never have been needed in the first place for a stiffer punishment.
I believe if the 2nd video didn't matter, you wouldn't have seen the explosion yesterday.
It mattered.
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Willfull ignorance if the NFL and the Raven organization didn't see this video before yesterday. It was in a casino hotel, there are cameras everywhere and everyone knows it. If they didn't see it, they went out of their way to not see it.
EXACTLY.
When the NFL said "they asked law enforcement for the video," it was a CYA line.
Which law enforcement personnel were asked? The detective overseeing the case or a parking checker from a different precinct?
When did you ask law enforcement? During the investigation when they knew all evidence would be under seal or after the court verdict when there was a possibility the court might actually release it?
I'm just curious, what is it that you think he has screwed up that would lead to him stepping down?
He interviewed the victim of domestic violence while the accused was in the room. Major, major fail.
I believe if the 2nd video didn't matter, you wouldn't have seen the explosion yesterday.
It mattered.
Let me guess... you also believe that Tom Cruise is both heterosexual and a devout religious man, too.
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EXACTLY.
When the NFL said "they asked law enforcement for the video," it was a CYA line.
Which law enforcement personnel were asked? The detective overseeing the case or a parking checker from a different precinct?
When did you ask law enforcement? During the investigation when they knew all evidence would be under seal or after the court verdict when there was a possibility the court might actually release it?
He interviewed the victim of domestic violence while the accused was in the room. Major, major fail.
Let me guess... you also believe that Tom Cruise is both heterosexual and a devout religious man, too.
I have no idea about Tom Cruise nor do I care.
Simple question for you, does the NFL have the right to obtain the video? Who owns the video, who controls the video and under what legal obligation are they to turn it over to the NFL or the Ravens.
I'm asking.
And yes, seeing the video mattered.
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Speaking of her, Benny, she has some comments today
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11493042/janay-rice-defends-ray-rice-criticizes-media-instagram-post
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I have no idea about Tom Cruise nor do I care.
Simple question for you, does the NFL have the right to obtain the video? Who owns the video, who controls the video and under what legal obligation are they to turn it over to the NFL or the Ravens.
I'm asking.
And yes, seeing the video mattered.
It doesn't matter whether or not the NFL had the "right" to obtain the video. It matters whether they had the "ability" to obtain the video.
The casino owns the video; the fact that it was used in a criminal investigation doesn't change the right of ownership. And as far as the casino's legal obligation with respect to the video... not really sure what NJ law has to say on that; however, if TMZ got the video, why couldn't the NFL or Ravens?
Face it: the NFL, the Ravens and Roger screwed the pooch on this one. At worst, it a was a deliberate - and futile - attempt to cover up what really happened, and at best, it was a deliberate piss-poor investigation from Day 1 whose sole purpose was to impart plausible deniability, not capture the truth.
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Funny to think how much better off Rice would be if they had just given him an 8 game suspension right off the bat. The video would have come out and some would have questioned if the punishment was enough and others would probably say it was fair and everyone would probably move on.
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Speaking of her, Benny, she has some comments today
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11493042/janay-rice-defends-ray-rice-criticizes-media-instagram-post
makes one kinda wonder here...i understand janay is now losing out on some bank too. i guess it doesn't matter to what extent janay now comes to the defense of "sugar" ray? do the rice's have any grounds for a lawsuit here? i'm really not the litigious type. but...? i suppose you can find something in his contract with both the ravens and the nfl that he violated and is grounds for a dismissal. anyone see a michael vick or ray lewis come back here if he does all the right things?
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Speaking of her, Benny, she has some comments today
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11493042/janay-rice-defends-ray-rice-criticizes-media-instagram-post
So, if I'm outraged by what Ray Rice did to her but she's not, am I calling her stupid? I mean, if the "offended" person isn't offended does it mean I can't be? That's Chico Logic and it doesn't cut it here either.
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So, if I'm outraged by what Ray Rice did to her but she's not, am I calling her stupid? I mean, if the "offended" person isn't offended does it mean I can't be? That's Chico Logic and it doesn't cut it here either.
And does it surprise anyone that Chicos is defending Goodell in this thread?
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Greg Hardy
Tell me the video doesn't matter...both videos. The videos matter absolutely.
Greg Hardy....case in point
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Greg Hardy
Tell me the video doesn't matter...both videos. The videos matter absolutely.
Greg Hardy....case in point
It doesn't matter because any reasonable person understood what happened in the elevator.
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I'm not at all buying that the NFL didn't see this video before. Doesn't pass the smell test
Also, is there anything more hilarious that watching Ray Lewis talk about morals and ethics in this situation?
From Peter King in July (aka corporate mouthpiece of the NFL):
"There is one other thing I did not write or refer to, and that is the other videotape the NFL and some Ravens officials have seen, from the security camera inside the elevator at the time of the physical altercation between Rice and his fiancée."
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/07/29/jordan-gross-weight-retirement-panthers/2/
So yeah, they knew....
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Greg Hardy
Tell me the video doesn't matter...both videos. The videos matter absolutely.
Greg Hardy....case in point
Is there a video in the Greg Hardy case?
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From Peter King in July (aka corporate mouthpiece of the NFL):
"There is one other thing I did not write or refer to, and that is the other videotape the NFL and some Ravens officials have seen, from the security camera inside the elevator at the time of the physical altercation between Rice and his fiancée."
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/07/29/jordan-gross-weight-retirement-panthers/2/
So yeah, they knew....
http://deadspin.com/has-peter-king-read-his-own-reporting-on-the-ray-rice-f-1631901579
http://deadspin.com/peter-king-issues-statement-on-his-ray-rice-reporting-1632044670
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http://grantland.com/the-triangle/what-does-it-take-to-get-roger-goodell-fired-2/
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Here's the money shot
A spokesman for the New Jersey state attorney general responded to questions about why the video was not released to the NFL.
"It's grand jury material. It would have been improper -- in fact, illegal -- for the Atlantic County Prosecutor's Office to provide it to an outside/private/non law-enforcement entity," Paul Loriquet said, according to ABC News.
As I stated yesterday, we can want the NFL and the Ravens to have seen it, we can pretend they have super powers to obtain it, we can say they should have seen it, but that doesn't make it so. Common sense would state that for a commissioner that was criticized over the years for suspensions that were TOO HARSH to only give 2 games IF he has seen the video would be absurd. This notion by people that "of course" they saw the video, seems shaky at best, and law enforcement seems to back that up...there is no legal reason for them to give it nor any compelling legal reason for the Ravens or NFL to have a right to acquire it at that time.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11494073/nfl-says-ray-rice-video-was-sought-multiple-sources
The video matters.
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Is there a video in the Greg Hardy case?
DING DING DING
Exactly my point. Yet, what he did I think many would argue was far worse.
The video matters.
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Here's the money shot
A spokesman for the New Jersey state attorney general responded to questions about why the video was not released to the NFL.
"It's grand jury material. It would have been improper -- in fact, illegal -- for the Atlantic County Prosecutor's Office to provide it to an outside/private/non law-enforcement entity," Paul Loriquet said, according to ABC News.
As I stated yesterday, we can want the NFL and the Ravens to have seen it, we can pretend they have super powers to obtain it, we can say they should have seen it, but that doesn't make it so. Common sense would state that for a commissioner that was criticized over the years for suspensions that were TOO HARSH to only give 2 games IF he has seen the video would be absurd. This notion by people that "of course" they saw the video, seems shaky at best, and law enforcement seems to back that up...there is no legal reason for them to give it nor any compelling legal reason for the Ravens or NFL to have a right to acquire it at that time.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11494073/nfl-says-ray-rice-video-was-sought-multiple-sources
The video matters.
So why suspend Rice 2 games at all then?
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DING DING DING
Exactly my point. Yet, what he did I think many would argue was far worse.
The video matters.
CBB, please, just think about this for a moment.
~The NFL and the Ravens put Janay in the same room as RR to talk about the incident.
~The Ravens, tweeted the following, and after 6 months, finally delelted it yesterday.
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--IRol1jkS--/qf2nuloxmu8wrpzrhvx9.png)
~Jim Harbaugh in training camp, saying "He makes a mistake, alright. He's gonna have to pay a consequence. It's good for kids to understand that it works that way, and that's how it works. That's how it should be."
~Ravens head of PR saying: I liked Ray Rice a lot then. I like Ray Rice a lot today. Clearly Ray has been scrutinized. He has been reviewed in a court of law and in the court of public opinion. The NFL punished Ray Rice with a two-game suspension and a third game check. He will lose 3/17 of his salary.
~Ravens celebrating RR on their website during training camp
You say the video matters, but they all knew Ray Rice knocked out a woman, then dragged her out of the elevator. I guess, they could be so oblivious to think that it could have been accident...it could have been self defense...she could have attacked with a knife...
This is the lowest of the low.
The fact the video matters is a sad sad thing in this country. The fact that Goodell, Ozzie Newsome, Jim Harbaugh all stood up, knowing RR plain and simple knocked out his fiance in an elevator, is atrocious. You the, king of calling out the hypocrites. Yet, you stand up and defend that stooge Goodell.
C'mon man.
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It doesn't matter because any reasonable person understood what happened in the elevator.
Any reasonable person knows what happened to Greg Hardy situation.....so why are we treating it differently?
VIDEO
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The NFL is a f ucking joke. Can't believe anyone would patronize it with a dollar or minute of their time. Sad state of affairs that it is as popular as it is in this country.
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So why suspend Rice 2 games at all then?
Because there was a police report and then the first video came out. Seems pretty obvious.
No one knew what happened in that elevator. If she said she attacked him, beat on him, whatever, and then he open fisted knocked her off of him....that would be totally plausible. Not condoning it, but if that was the story and they had no video to review, it would be accepted by most people. In fact, if that was what the video showed, her on top of him, whaling on him, whatever, and he smacks her and hits her head...knocks her out. You don't think that is different than what actually happened? Context. Of course it's different. Doesn't excuse it, but I would wager most people would view a tape that differently that showed a guy land a left cross to the jaw after she spits on him and quite another if she's kicking him in the balls, punching him constantly, etc. In both cases the guy would be seen as a jerk, etc, but there would be more sympathy to how he reacted if it was in "self defense". Which, by the way, is what both parties said. Absence of the video, what the hell is the NFL and the Ravens supposed to do?
Again, my point is all the folks that said the NFL had seen this, the Ravens had seen this......hmmm. Funny...not so much.
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CBB, please, just think about this for a moment.
~The NFL and the Ravens put Janay in the same room as RR to talk about the incident.
~The Ravens, tweeted the following, and after 6 months, finally delelted it yesterday.
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--IRol1jkS--/qf2nuloxmu8wrpzrhvx9.png)
~Jim Harbaugh in training camp, saying "He makes a mistake, alright. He's gonna have to pay a consequence. It's good for kids to understand that it works that way, and that's how it works. That's how it should be."
~Ravens head of PR saying: I liked Ray Rice a lot then. I like Ray Rice a lot today. Clearly Ray has been scrutinized. He has been reviewed in a court of law and in the court of public opinion. The NFL punished Ray Rice with a two-game suspension and a third game check. He will lose 3/17 of his salary.
~Ravens celebrating RR on their website during training camp
You say the video matters, but they all knew Ray Rice knocked out a woman, then dragged her out of the elevator. I guess, they could be so oblivious to think that it could have been accident...it could have been self defense...she could have attacked with a knife...
This is the lowest of the low.
The fact the video matters is a sad sad thing in this country. The fact that Goodell, Ozzie Newsome, Jim Harbaugh all stood up, knowing RR plain and simple knocked out his fiance in an elevator, is atrocious. You the, king of calling out the hypocrites. Yet, you stand up and defend that stooge Goodell.
C'mon man.
Reinko, I just explained it. The video matters. To deny the video matters or is a major player in this is ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. I've given you plenty of plausible scenarios in which she could have been knocked out and sans a video to prove it there would be no way to know. And if the wife and player are saying that's how it happened, how are you supposed to know the difference? You can't.
As for the interview in the same room....are people watching too much CSI again? Did you read her remarks today? She's all in, no one was interviewing her in the same room when she came out with those comments today. So that point is moot. She believed then what she said and believes it today what she said.
It's funny, aren't you and some others here on the Ferguson situation where you couldn't WAIT to tell all of us what really happened, even though none of you were there and there is no video, but you all knew what happened. Now with this case, again, some of you seem to have all the answers until the actual evidence starts coming in. Tell me, if there was video of the Ferguson situation if that wouldn't clear many things up right away? Of course it does.
The video matters....absolutely.
Ironic.
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Because there was a police report and then the first video came out. Seems pretty obvious.
No one knew what happened in that elevator. If she said she attacked him, beat on him, whatever, and then he open fisted knocked her off of him....that would be totally plausible. Not condoning it, but if that was the story and they had no video to review, it would be accepted by most people. In fact, if that was what the video showed, her on top of him, whaling on him, whatever, and he smacks her and hits her head...knocks her out. You don't think that is different than what actually happened? Context. Of course it's different. Doesn't excuse it, but I would wager most people would view a tape that differently that showed a guy land a left cross to the jaw after she spits on him and quite another if she's kicking him in the balls, punching him constantly, etc. In both cases the guy would be seen as a jerk, etc, but there would be more sympathy to how he reacted if it was in "self defense". Which, by the way, is what both parties said. Absence of the video, what the hell is the NFL and the Ravens supposed to do?
Again, my point is all the folks that said the NFL had seen this, the Ravens had seen this......hmmm. Funny...not so much.
Didn't the police know what happened? Enough to up the charges to aggravated assault?
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By the way Reinko, I've known the PR guy at the Ravens for many years (Chad Steele)...he is the brother of Sage Steele of ESPN and he's married to a good friend of mine.
Some of you guys are really reaching on this stuff and jumping to tremendous conclusions without a lot of the facts. They tried to help Ray and Janay, and Janay from day one felt she was part of the problem. Her words today are how she feels. More will come out in the weeks and months, but it's a feeding frenzy right now and a ton of people saying things about what the Ravens or NFL saw, what Janay's role is, etc that have no f'ing clue.
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Reinko, I just explained it. The video matters. To deny the video matters or is a major player in this is ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. I've given you plenty of plausible scenarios in which she could have been knocked out and sans a video to prove it there would be no way to know. And if the wife and player are saying that's how it happened, how are you supposed to know the difference? You can't.
As for the interview in the same room....are people watching too much CSI again? Did you read her remarks today? She's all in, no one was interviewing her in the same room when she came out with those comments today. So that point is moot. She believed then what she said and believes it today what she said.
It's funny, aren't you and some others here on the Ferguson situation where you couldn't WAIT to tell all of us what really happened, even though none of you were there and there is no video, but you all knew what happened. Now with this case, again, some of you seem to have all the answers until the actual evidence starts coming in. Tell me, if there was video of the Ferguson situation if that wouldn't clear many things up right away? Of course it does.
The video matters....absolutely.
Ironic.
A violent assault occurred, that is known. RR admitted to it, and was giving a punishment for committing a violent assault against his fiance. The Ravens, the NFL they all knew he committed an assault on his fiance, that resulted her getting knocked out. Those are the just the facts.
Now the NFL and the Ravens CHOSE the route of trotting RR and his wife into a press conference. Choose a 2 game suspension was sufficient. Chose to highlight him on their website during training camp. Those are choices they made.
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By the way Reinko, I've known the PR guy at the Ravens for many years (Chad Steele)...he is the brother of Sage Steele of ESPN and he's married to a good friend of mine.
Some of you guys are really reaching on this stuff and jumping to tremendous conclusions without a lot of the facts. They tried to help Ray and Janay, and Janay from day one felt she was part of the problem. Her words today are how she feels. More will come out in the weeks and months, but it's a feeding frenzy right now and a ton of people saying things about what the Ravens or NFL saw, what Janay's role is, etc that have no f'ing clue.
This was the guy I was referring too. Kevin Byrne
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Byrne-Identity-I-Like-Ray-Rice/f618f957-e03f-4fc6-919e-638552b14c2b
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Didn't the police know what happened? Enough to up the charges to aggravated assault?
Yup. Which is one of the reasons he was suspended, because of the arrest. That doesn't mean they showed the video, in fact law enforcement says they didn't.
The video matters, because the video causes a visceral reaction that words on a police report simply cannot do. No different than someone describing an accident scene, someone describing a movie, someone describing a great play in a game....you can hear it or read it a 1000 times, but when you see it...that's what matters. That is the game changer.
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A violent assault occurred, that is known. RR admitted to it, and was giving a punishment for committing a violent assault against his fiance. The Ravens, the NFL they all knew he committed an assault on his fiance, that resulted her getting knocked out. Those are the just the facts.
Now the NFL and the Ravens CHOSE the route of trotting RR and his wife into a press conference. Choose a 2 game suspension was sufficient. Chose to highlight him on their website during training camp. Those are choices they made.
The Ravens don't decide the 2 game suspension. Yes, they all knew an assault was committed, but the video changes everything. Too many of you are seeing it through the eyes of the video which they didn't get to see.
Yes, they chose a 2 game suspension, which after the fact Goodell sent a letter out to all owners saying he missed that and a new policy is 6 game first offense, life ban for 2nd. He admitted he made that mistake, before the video came out, etc. Now, some will claim 6 games isn't enough....I think the NFL ruled accordingly yesterday that despite this being a first time offense, Rice is gone....not 2 games, not 6 games...gone indefinitely.
Yes, the Ravens chose to highlight him and his wife on their website....why is that? Do you know the whole story? You do not, or you would have included it. IMO.
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This was the guy I was referring too. Kevin Byrne
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Byrne-Identity-I-Like-Ray-Rice/f618f957-e03f-4fc6-919e-638552b14c2b
Yup, Kevin Byrne....a name that should ring a lot of bells around here.
Marquette University alumnus
http://www.marquette.edu/alumni/awards-2012/recipient_Byrne.php
Again, a lot of people really don't know the facts, but are getting a bunch of nonsense from Deadspin, Awful Announcing, Keith Olbermann, etc. I'd suggest we wait for more information to come out. But whatever.
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Yup. Which is one of the reasons he was suspended, because of the arrest. That doesn't mean they showed the video, in fact law enforcement says they didn't.
Right, I haven't claimed that the NFL has seen the video. What I'm saying (and I think others as well) is that they knew Rice was charged with aggravated assault for an incident in which he knocked his fiancee unconscious and chose to suspend him only two games. This is why most people don't understand why the video matters. The video doesn't change the previous facts one bit and those facts alone should have been enough for the NFL to hand down an appropriate punishment.
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Here's a question, should Ray Rice be allowed to play football again?
Donte Stallworth killed somebody and wasn't banned from the NFL. Numerous examples of players committing assault and being allowed to play, etc.
Also, Mark Schlereth (and I dislike the guy) said this is either the ultimate cover-up (which I'm starting to doubt), or the ultimate in complete lack of due diligence. If TMZ can acquire the second video, why can't some of the former FBI guys working security for the NFL?
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Personally I don't find any difference between knocking her out with a left cross or if RR slapped her hard enough for her to trip and hit her head knocking herself out and it is a shame the NFL thinks otherwise.
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Ray Rice was rich and famous. The prosecutorial office did not pursue it, because they take kid gloves to the vast majority of the rich and famous. The NFL and Ravens almost assuredly saw the video, but figured it would never see the light of day or if it did the public outcry would not be as bad as it had been.
It came out very soon while there was still negative publicity from the kid glove treatment of Rice, that led to a worst case scenario of public outcry. They then acted and began to cover up what they knew and when.
Really pretty standard behavior, this demonstrates a lot of what is wrong these days.
Affluenza. The Fappening.
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Here's a question, should Ray Rice be allowed to play football again?
Donte Stallworth killed somebody and wasn't banned from the NFL. Numerous examples of players committing assault and being allowed to play, etc.
Also, Mark Schlereth (and I dislike the guy) said this is either the ultimate cover-up (which I'm starting to doubt), or the ultimate in complete lack of due diligence. If TMZ can acquire the second video, why can't some of the former FBI guys working security for the NFL?
Well we know MLB would have at least attempted to buy the video to begin with.
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Here's a question, should Ray Rice be allowed to play football again?
Donte Stallworth killed somebody and wasn't banned from the NFL. Numerous examples of players committing assault and being allowed to play, etc.
Also, Mark Schlereth (and I dislike the guy) said this is either the ultimate cover-up (which I'm starting to doubt), or the ultimate in complete lack of due diligence. If TMZ can acquire the second video, why can't some of the former FBI guys working security for the NFL?
Or option 3, it's not a cover-up and the NFL was acting within the boundaries of the law when TMZ is not \ plus TMZ has journalistic safeguards (as hard as that is to write the words journalistic and TMZ in the same sentence).
How about we find out how TMZ got the video...no one seems to care, but that would be a big part of all this. I doubt we will know, because that in and of itself may be an illegal action.
It's almost as if Schlereth or some of the cranks on the interwebs are saying the NFL should have broken the law to get this tape, while at the same time decrying the NFL for not doing enough over someone that broke the law, but was not prosecute as such.
Much more to come of this....way too many people quick to judge the NFL and the Ravens without knowing a ton of facts or just flat out making crap up.
Don't worry, the next step will be that "someone" saw the tape at the NFL and they will take that as a blanket statement that the right people saw it and it will be guilt by association. That's coming next.
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Right, I haven't claimed that the NFL has seen the video. What I'm saying (and I think others as well) is that they knew Rice was charged with aggravated assault for an incident in which he knocked his fiancee unconscious and chose to suspend him only two games. This is why most people don't understand why the video matters. The video doesn't change the previous facts one bit and those facts alone should have been enough for the NFL to hand down an appropriate punishment.
Exactly. Yet, Chicos continues to spew nonsense about how they needed to make sure that Rice wasn't just "defending" himself.
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Right, I haven't claimed that the NFL has seen the video. What I'm saying (and I think others as well) is that they knew Rice was charged with aggravated assault for an incident in which he knocked his fiancee unconscious and chose to suspend him only two games. This is why most people don't understand why the video matters. The video doesn't change the previous facts one bit and those facts alone should have been enough for the NFL to hand down an appropriate punishment.
This. It doesn't change the facts. It changes public perception. Which is a terrible reason for changing the punishment
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Here's a question, should Ray Rice be allowed to play football again?
Donte Stallworth killed somebody and wasn't banned from the NFL. Numerous examples of players committing assault and being allowed to play, etc.
Also, Mark Schlereth (and I dislike the guy) said this is either the ultimate cover-up (which I'm starting to doubt), or the ultimate in complete lack of due diligence. If TMZ can acquire the second video, why can't some of the former FBI guys working security for the NFL?
Yes, I think he should be able to. I think what he did was awful, but I also believe he should be given the chance to redeem himself, assuming someone is willing to hire him.
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By the way Reinko, I've known the PR guy at the Ravens for many years (Chad Steele)...he is the brother of Sage Steele of ESPN and he's married to a good friend of mine.
Some of you guys are really reaching on this stuff and jumping to tremendous conclusions without a lot of the facts. They tried to help Ray and Janay, and Janay from day one felt she was part of the problem. Her words today are how she feels. More will come out in the weeks and months, but it's a feeding frenzy right now and a ton of people saying things about what the Ravens or NFL saw, what Janay's role is, etc that have no f'ing clue.
Please quit posting this lunacy. Are you really this stupid or just in your usual "defend the rich and powerful mode"?
This is the perfect example of a battered wife. They blame themselves. Just as abused children blame themselves for being bad when they are beaten by their parents.
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brilliant
www.theonion.com/articles/nfl-announces-new-zerotolerance-policy-on-videotap,36885
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Big Ben RAPED a woman. Someone please explain why he is still in the NFL?
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A violent assault occurred, that is known. RR admitted to it, and was giving a punishment for committing a violent assault against his fiance. The Ravens, the NFL they all knew he committed an assault on his fiance, that resulted her getting knocked out. Those are the just the facts.
Now the NFL and the Ravens CHOSE the route of trotting RR and his wife into a press conference. Choose a 2 game suspension was sufficient. Chose to highlight him on their website during training camp. Those are choices they made.
This is Roger Goodell's legacy. As well as the Ravens. Look at the Greg Hardy situation. Goddell was more concerned with the face paint Hardy wore in a game than when he stockpiled weapons, and assaulted and threatened to murder his girlfriend?
And what about Terrell Suggs? Another woman beater?
Ray Lewis?
The ravens didn't release Rice because they thought it was the right thing to do.
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brilliant
www.theonion.com/articles/nfl-announces-new-zerotolerance-policy-on-videotap,36885
I read that this morning.
Classic Onion greatness.
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Or option 3, it's not a cover-up and the NFL was acting within the boundaries of the law when TMZ is not \ plus TMZ has journalistic safeguards (as hard as that is to write the words journalistic and TMZ in the same sentence).
How about we find out how TMZ got the video...no one seems to care, but that would be a big part of all this. I doubt we will know, because that in and of itself may be an illegal action.
It's almost as if Schlereth or some of the cranks on the interwebs are saying the NFL should have broken the law to get this tape, while at the same time decrying the NFL for not doing enough over someone that broke the law, but was not prosecute as such.
Much more to come of this....way too many people quick to judge the NFL and the Ravens without knowing a ton of facts or just flat out making crap up.
Don't worry, the next step will be that "someone" saw the tape at the NFL and they will take that as a blanket statement that the right people saw it and it will be guilt by association. That's coming next.
You are right. I can think of three things that if they came out, could change my mind.
1.) Janay was brandishing a gun that we could not see on the video.
2.) RR has Parkinson's, which acted up violently, and caused him to punch his fiance in the face by accident.
3.) Ozzie Newsome, Jim Harbaugh, Roger Goodell are all mentally disabled.
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Personally I don't find any difference between knocking her out with a left cross or if RR slapped her hard enough for her to trip and hit her head knocking herself out and it is a shame the NFL thinks otherwise.
If the she was attacking him, as she said she was until the tape showed otherwise, I believe most people would view things differently than just cold cocking someone. Doesn't make it right, but the degree to which it is viewed is different based on the circumstances. Many would say, "he shouldn't have hit her, but why the hell is she beating on him, kicking him in the balls, biting him, etc". Since the NFL and Ravens didn't know what happened in the elevator and relied on the reports both parties gave, what are they supposed to do?
Hell, even the prosecution's office that actually saw the video didn't do much about it, AND THEY HAD THE TAPE. I guess I'm struggling with trying to understand how the NFL or the Ravens are supposed to know what happened when they don't have access to the evidence AND when law enforcement (who does have the evidence) treats the incident mildly. Exactly what are the Ravens and NFL supposed to do? "Sorry law enforcement, despite the fact you have seen the video and we haven't, we believe you didn't go far enough even though we have no evidence to go on to prove that". Really?
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"I didn't technically see it...."
-Roger Goodell, after poking both eyes out with a hot andiron
"...ab ah hab noo staymut."
-Roger Goodell, cutting his tongue off with scissors
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You are right. I can think of three things that if they came out, could change my mind.
1.) Janay was brandishing a gun that we could not see on the video.
2.) RR has Parkinson's, which acted up violently, and caused him to punch his fiance in the face by accident.
3.) Ozzie Newsome, Jim Harbaugh, Roger Goodell are all mentally disabled.
How about Janay is biting him, kicking him in the balls, smashing his head and he knocks her off him in a hit that is "mild" and she trips and hits her head? I could come up with 50 others like this. She said she was attacking him. He said it was self defense. Law enforcement didn't prosecute him...even though they had the video.
Help me with this one Reinko, in all sincerity.
Ravens and NFL do not see video, have no legal access to video. Check
Law enforcement and prosecution's office does see video. Check
Law enforcement \ prosecutorial office allows Ray to basically get off the hook and they SAW THE VIDEO. Check
Despite how law enforcement agencies respond, despite that they had the evidence, despite the NFL and Ravens not having it, despite what both parties stated....ALL OF THAT should be ignored and the NFL and Ravens (without any video evidence mind you), should have acted differently.
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Big Ben RAPED a woman. Someone please explain why he is still in the NFL?
Kobe Bryant on line 4
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Right, I haven't claimed that the NFL has seen the video. What I'm saying (and I think others as well) is that they knew Rice was charged with aggravated assault for an incident in which he knocked his fiancee unconscious and chose to suspend him only two games. This is why most people don't understand why the video matters. The video doesn't change the previous facts one bit and those facts alone should have been enough for the NFL to hand down an appropriate punishment.
Except in context with what law enforcement did, who DID see the video, I think that changes things. Law enforcement treated it with kid gloves, and they had the video. So the NFL is supposed to punish differently based on evidence they don't have and law enforcement does?
How exactly is that going to work? Lots and lots of Monday Morning QB'ing going on around here. Lots of conspiracy theories since last night (not by you) are dying on the vine.
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Exactly. Yet, Chicos continues to spew nonsense about how they needed to make sure that Rice wasn't just "defending" himself.
That's not at all what I said....try to keep up.
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How about Janay is biting him, kicking him in the balls, smashing his head and he knocks her off him in a hit that is "mild" and she trips and hits her head? I could come up with 50 others like this. She said she was attacking him. He said it was self defense. Law enforcement didn't prosecute him...even though they had the video.
Help me with this one Reinko, in all sincerity.
Ravens and NFL do not see video, have no legal access to video. Check
Law enforcement and prosecution's office does see video. Check
Law enforcement \ prosecutorial office allows Ray to basically get off the hook and they SAW THE VIDEO. Check
Despite how law enforcement agencies respond, despite that they had the evidence, despite the NFL and Ravens not having it, despite what both parties stated....ALL OF THAT should be ignored and the NFL and Ravens (without any video evidence mind you), should have acted differently.
Can't we just end the discussion now? Re-instate Rice and throw Janay (and all the other women who whine about getting beaten) in prison. :-\
It's interesting that Chicos has more info on who saw the video than guys like Schefter, Nortenson, King, McManus, and others whose only reason for living is to promote the NFL. They have the sources inside the league and they all say the NFL saw the video. The tape was freely available after the incident and if the NFL lied to reporters and really didn't see the tape, then everyone in the front office needs to go.
Once the NFL has to go to legal speak and semantics for their case, everyone knows what is really going on. The NFL has turned a blind eye towards violence on women before and is only in panic mode because of the release of the video.
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How about Janay is biting him, kicking him in the balls, smashing his head and he knocks her off him in a hit that is "mild" and she trips and hits her head? I could come up with 50 others like this. She said she was attacking him. He said it was self defense. Law enforcement didn't prosecute him...even though they had the video.
Help me with this one Reinko, in all sincerity.
Ravens and NFL do not see video, have no legal access to video. Check
Law enforcement and prosecution's office does see video. Check
Law enforcement \ prosecutorial office allows Ray to basically get off the hook and they SAW THE VIDEO. Check
Despite how law enforcement agencies respond, despite that they had the evidence, despite the NFL and Ravens not having it, despite what both parties stated....ALL OF THAT should be ignored and the NFL and Ravens (without any video evidence mind you), should have acted differently.
What about asking Rice for the video? While none of us know exactly what communication went on between the casino, the police, and the NFL, I think everyone expects more from Goodell and more due diligence when the video that did come out wasn't shocking to anyone.
Was the outcome of that video shocking to you? (not the violence, but the fact that he hit her). Rice hitting her and knocking her out was the most plausible outcome of the incident that took place in the elevator. I think most people would say "no" to that question and that's why everyone finds the "Hell...anything could have happened in that elevator" defense so pathetic. When one of your players knocks his girlfriend unconscious and you suspend him only for 2 games, you better be damned sure it was a "minor" incident and fully understand the context of the incident. It obviously wasn't minor, and the NFL didn't do enough to ensure it was and now Goodell and the league look like domestic violence isn't a major issue to them. Whether it was intentional oversight or just incompetence, it's unacceptable.
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By the way Reinko, I've known the PR guy at the Ravens for many years (Chad Steele)...he is the brother of Sage Steele of ESPN and he's married to a good friend of mine.
Some of you guys are really reaching on this stuff and jumping to tremendous conclusions without a lot of the facts. They tried to help Ray and Janay, and Janay from day one felt she was part of the problem. Her words today are how she feels. More will come out in the weeks and months, but it's a feeding frenzy right now and a ton of people saying things about what the Ravens or NFL saw, what Janay's role is, etc that have no f'ing clue.
This is utterly disgusting Chicos. You, as the father of a young girl, should be ashamed of yourself. There is nothing that Janay could have done that would justify what RR did. Ray was the one who brought the gun to the knife fight.
Using the analogy, even if your wife threatens you with a knife, if you truly love her and care about her, would you pull a gun on her? Hell no, you get her help. (just for the record, an NFL RB knocking his wife out cold isn't considered "helping"). I'm sure that you want the same thing as I for our daughters... that they will be raised in world where they can be confident enough to stand up for themselves.
All sarcasm aside - you need to take a timeout here to think about your defense of the situation at hand and the message you're sending to society by invoking the words of a domestic violence victim to rationalize and/or excuse the act.
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This is utterly disgusting Chicos. You, as the father of a young girl, should be ashamed of yourself. There is nothing that Janay could have done that would justify what RR did. Ray was the one who brought the gun to the knife fight.
Using the analogy, even if your wife threatens you with a knife, if you truly love her and care about her, would you pull a gun on her? Hell no, you get her help. (just for the record, an NFL RB knocking his wife out cold isn't considered "helping"). I'm sure that you want the same thing as I for our daughters... that they will be raised in world where they can be confident enough to stand up for themselves.
All sarcasm aside - you need to take a timeout here to think about your defense of the situation at hand and the message you're sending to society by invoking the words of a domestic violence victim to rationalize and/or excuse the act.
+1,000
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What about asking Rice for the video? While none of us know exactly what communication went on between the casino, the police, and the NFL, I think everyone expects more from Goodell and more due diligence when the video that did come out wasn't shocking to anyone.
Was the outcome of that video shocking to you? (not the violence, but the fact that he hit her). Rice hitting her and knocking her out was the most plausible outcome of the incident that took place in the elevator. I think most people would say "no" to that question and that's why everyone finds the "Hell...anything could have happened in that elevator" defense so pathetic. When one of your players knocks his girlfriend unconscious and you suspend him only for 2 games, you better be damned sure it was a "minor" incident and fully understand the context of the incident. It obviously wasn't minor, and the NFL didn't do enough to ensure it was and now Goodell and the league look like domestic violence isn't a major issue to them. Whether it was intentional oversight or just incompetence, it's unacceptable.
My understanding, and I expect this will come out. They did ask Rice for the video and his attorney said no.
I agree that him hitting her was the most plausible outcome, don't think anyone is suggesting differently....but there are hits and then there are hits....and there are hits that lead to other things. Did the hit knock her out, did she hit her head, was she attacking him, etc...all those things were unknown that the video shows. I don't agree with your conclusion, especially when the wife says it didn't go down that way.
But hey, this is a country that supposedly already knows what happened in Ferguson, and those Duke Lacrosse players...we all knew what happened there...it was obvious...until it wasn't obvious....and Susan Smith....and on and on.
Do you truly believe in your brain that if Goodell saw that video he would have issued a 2 game suspension? Do you truly believe that Harbaugh would defend if he saw that video? Truly believe that? And remember, this is the same Goodell that people think OVER FINES and OVER SUSPENDS for the slightest transgression, yet for something like this he would only give 2 games. Do you truly believe this?
If you do, well then your line of thinking is fine, I guess. Personally, I don't believe it for a second. I think the video matters and the proof is the reaction yesterday and today. The proof is the NON ACTION for Greg Hardy, because no video exists. Too much ambiguity without the video, ESPECIALLY with law enforcement letting him off and his wife saying she was partly the cause by attacking him. That doesn't mean you excuse it, nor was the NFL excusing it, in fact they admitted the 2 game suspension wasn't enough a few weeks ago. That being said, in my mind there is no way they give a 2 game suspension if they saw that video.
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The proof is the NON ACTION for Greg Hardy, because no video exists.
Greg Hardy was found guilty in a court of law of assaulting a female and communicating threats. Mecklenburg County Judge Rebecca Thorn-Tin sentenced Hardy to 18 months' probation. A 60-day jail sentence was suspended.
Despite the conviction, Goodell still feels that a player should be penalized more for an overzealous reaction to a great play they just made than to an overzealous reaction of beating and threatening to murder a female 1/2 your size.
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This is utterly disgusting Chicos. You, as the father of a young girl, should be ashamed of yourself. There is nothing that Janay could have done that would justify what RR did. Ray was the one who brought the gun to the knife fight.
Using the analogy, even if your wife threatens you with a knife, if you truly love her and care about her, would you pull a gun on her? Hell no, you get her help. (just for the record, an NFL RB knocking his wife out cold isn't considered "helping"). I'm sure that you want the same thing as I for our daughters... that they will be raised in world where they can be confident enough to stand up for themselves.
All sarcasm aside - you need to take a timeout here to think about your defense of the situation at hand and the message you're sending to society by invoking the words of a domestic violence victim to rationalize and/or excuse the act.
Dude, I'm not defending Ray Rice here...at all. Nada. Those are HER words, not mine. That's how she thinks because she said she got drunk and assaulted him. Again, her words, not mine.
I'm not excusing it, at all. Not sure where you are getting any of that. I'm defending the fact the NFL and the Ravens didn't have nearly the information that so many here and elsewhere said they did, because they were not legally allowed to have it. Also, in working with them on a near daily basis for years, I can tell you that if they saw that video, there is no way in hell they would give a two game suspension, just as there is no way in hell the Ravens would have stood up for him. But clearly, I have not defended Ray Rice at all, not an ounce of it. I have said some people have made some assumptions about what could have happened in the elevator that they would have NO IDEA if it were true or not unless they saw the video.
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Raven's owner speaks:
http://www.barstoolsports.com/dmv/super-page/ravens-owner-steve-bisciotti-finally-speaks-issues-letter-of-apology-to-fans/
I'm glad they made a statement and even more so glad that they owned up to failures all around.
Now, a further question, why is Ray Rice not still on the Ravens and not still in the NFL? Why the deviation from precedent now?
Edit: If the content of the letter will be a discussion topic, can we ignore the blogger's thoughts at the bottom?
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Raven's owner speaks:
http://www.barstoolsports.com/dmv/super-page/ravens-owner-steve-bisciotti-finally-speaks-issues-letter-of-apology-to-fans/
I'm glad they made a statement and even more so glad that they owned up to failures all around.
Now, a further question, why is Ray Rice not still on the Ravens and not still in the NFL? Why the deviation from precedent now?
Edit: If the content of the letter will be a discussion topic, can we ignore the blogger's thoughts at the bottom?
The question I have is why, if he felt this way, did he send the coach out to talk to the media about something that was strictly management's decision rather than going out himself with the team president and the GM.
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Raven's owner speaks:
http://www.barstoolsports.com/dmv/super-page/ravens-owner-steve-bisciotti-finally-speaks-issues-letter-of-apology-to-fans/
I'm glad they made a statement and even more so glad that they owned up to failures all around.
Now, a further question, why is Ray Rice not still on the Ravens and not still in the NFL? Why the deviation from precedent now?
Edit: If the content of the letter will be a discussion topic, can we ignore the blogger's thoughts at the bottom?
Like I've been saying, they never saw the video. They tried to get it, they were denied. They saw it yesterday and were horrified.
The video matters.
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Owners .lately, have a record of coming out and saying things they regret later. Best leave it to people who have practice in front of micro(phones).
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Like I've been saying, they never saw the video. They tried to get it, they were denied. They saw it yesterday and were horrified.
The video matters.
Horrified at what the tape revealed or horrified by the realization they now had a PR sh--storm on their hands?
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Horrified at what the tape revealed or horrified by the realization they now had a PR sh--storm on their hands?
My guess is both. But more the latter
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Horrified at what the tape revealed or horrified by the realization they now had a PR sh--storm on their hands?
If I had to guess, both.
But no way they would have done a 2 game suspension if they had seen the video and what went down. They relied on the police report, relied on testimony from both, relied on the justice gears and what they did, etc. Sorry the conspiracy theories have died on the vine.
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Like I've been saying, they never saw the video. They tried to get it, they were denied. They saw it yesterday and were horrified.
The video matters.
Absolutely ridiculous. The NFL hires the best when it comes to security. Ex-FBI, ex-Secret Service, ex-police investigators. Guys who have connections. These guys are not amateurs. They do deep, deep background checks on potential draft choices. For anyone to think the NFL could not get the video is ludicrous. The guys who the NFL uses for inside information have all said that the nFL had the video.
But maybe someone can answer a question. Why, after an obvious assault case involving a powerful professional football player beating a woman senseless, did the police allow them to leave the police station together. This cannot be SOP.
The video the police saw immediately from the hotel showed the aftermath of a brutal assault. Rice picking up an unconscious woman and dropping her, and then, after just kicking her out of the way so the elevator door could close, did nothing to attend to the woman he just beat into submission as she lay sprawled on the floor.
The police then just sent a brutally beaten woman with her intoxicated husband back home. Aren't there laws in NJ to protect victims of violent assault?
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Here's what Ray Rice's attorney said a month ago. Interesting....everything is there in his hypotheticals. Doesn't quite come through in black and white now, does it.
The video matters
"Let's assume for the sake of argument, rather than enter into the pretrial diversionary program that [Rice] entered into, we hypothetically move forward on the case. And hypothetically we litigate 100 motions and the video comes out and the video shows — hypothetically speaking now, hypothetically speaking — shows that Ray wasn't the first person that hit and Ray was getting repeatedly hit but just Ray hit harder, fired one back and hit harder. Hypothetically speaking, and he gets found not guilty. Is that result somehow better? Is it better for the public? Is it better for the Ravens? Is it better for Ray? Is it better for Janay?"
--Michael Diamondstein, Ray Rice attorney
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This thread...holy hell.
For the record, Greg Hardy was just given harsh discipline by the NFL league office, immediately, for a serious violation of it's policy that can harm the league forever.
Hardy was sent a fine and notice last week for violating the league's uniform policy for the facepaint he wears in game.
Roger Goodell's NFL...wear socks too high, pay a heavy fine, immediately. Beat the living hell out of your wife/girlfriend...ehh, we'll try to get to it. Even then, we really don't care. But don't forget to buy pink jersey's all October!
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Here's what Ray Rice's attorney said a month ago. Interesting....everything is there in his hypotheticals. Doesn't quite come through in black and white now, does it.
The video matters
"Let's assume for the sake of argument, rather than enter into the pretrial diversionary program that [Rice] entered into, we hypothetically move forward on the case. And hypothetically we litigate 100 motions and the video comes out and the video shows — hypothetically speaking now, hypothetically speaking shows that Ray wasn't the first person that hit and Ray was getting repeatedly hit but just Ray hit harder, fired one back and hit harder. Hypothetically speaking, and he gets found not guilty. Is that result somehow better? Is it better for the public? Is it better for the Ravens? Is it better for Ray? Is it better for Janay?"
--Michael Diamondstein, Ray Rice attorney
Interesting how you keep using other people's words to blame the victim. That way you can keep your holy deniability.
Another disgusting post!
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I'm figurin' there's a lawsuit yet to be filed. Can't deny a dude a right to make a livin' without charges bein' filed and due process, hey?
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Goodell interview left door open for rehabilitation, I thought. My guess is Rice goes through some program and the door is open for a CHANGED and remorseful player. His problem is that the league is awash with running backs and last year he was nothing special.
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I'm figurin' there's a lawsuit yet to be filed. Can't deny a dude a right to make a livin' without charges bein' filed and due process, hey?
Depends on the CBA language.
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I'm figurin' there's a lawsuit yet to be filed. Can't deny a dude a right to make a livin' without charges bein' filed and due process, hey?
State of NJ convicted him already and even gave him an "out" to expunge the crime from his record? How much more due process do you want?
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does this help explain things a little? i doubt it, but it does shed a little light on who you are. any preferential treatment here or what? i'm all ears though...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/09/10/judge-prosecutor-who-let-ray-rice-walk-tossing-book-at-single-mom/
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does this help explain things a little? i doubt it, but it does shed a little light on who you are. any preferential treatment here or what? i'm all ears though...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/09/10/judge-prosecutor-who-let-ray-rice-walk-tossing-book-at-single-mom/
Not too surprising.
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Ray Rice is a bad human being and a threat to society. He should be in jail.
And I'm a softy who believes in second chances.
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This thread...holy hell.
For the record, Greg Hardy was just given harsh discipline by the NFL league office, immediately, for a serious violation of it's policy that can harm the league forever.
Hardy was sent a fine and notice last week for violating the league's uniform policy for the facepaint he wears in game.
Roger Goodell's NFL...wear socks too high, pay a heavy fine, immediately. Beat the living hell out of your wife/girlfriend...ehh, we'll try to get to it. Even then, we really don't care. But don't forget to buy pink jersey's all October!
Think about what you said....it's EXACTLY why Goodell and the higher ups at the league never saw the video. Goodell will give suspensions to players for pretty minor stuff, but only 2 games for this? No way, not if he had seen the video. Not a chance in hell. That's why idiots that say he saw the video are absolutely not using common sense.
There is also due process, which you should know the league has to follow. This is why the league didn't react until Rice was convicted and took his plea. People don't like, is what it is.
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does this help explain things a little? i doubt it, but it does shed a little light on who you are. any preferential treatment here or what? i'm all ears though...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/09/10/judge-prosecutor-who-let-ray-rice-walk-tossing-book-at-single-mom/
My understanding is he took a plea deal that first time offenders routinely take. I'd want to know who wasn't denied a similar plea deal for a first time offender. This article is comparing a case involving a fire arm, so not apples to apples comparison.
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Think about what you said....it's EXACTLY why Goodell and the higher ups at the league never saw the video. Goodell will give suspensions to players for pretty minor stuff, but only 2 games for this? No way, not if he had seen the video. Not a chance in hell. That's why idiots that say he saw the video are absolutely not using common sense.
There is also due process, which you should know the league has to follow. This is why the league didn't react until Rice was convicted and took his plea. People don't like, is what it is.
Huge difference...they had PLENTY of opportunity to see it or get access to it. Willful ignorance is NOT a good stance here.
It's hypocritical to say due process (which happened, albeit handled terribly by NJ), and then not seek out the video.
Only reason it moved from 2 games to indefinite is because the league reacted to common sense public outrage. Total joke, can NOT have it both ways.
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My understanding is he took a plea deal that first time offenders routinely take. I'd want to know who wasn't denied a similar plea deal for a first time offender. This article is comparing a case involving a fire arm, so not apples to apples comparison.
i understand chico, but she was essentially legally carrying and volunteered the info that she was carrying. otherwise, no real laws broken except she was a few miles out of bounds. nothing violent occured. i'm in agreement with you however re:goodell not having all the facts in front of him in order to properly penalize ray. yes, he did hit her, but the violence of it was not as appreciated as was made apparent on the tmz video. for all of you expressing your outrage now, fine, but where was the same amount of outrage last spring or for the 2 cases pending. bottom line, a man doesn't hit women
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Think about what you said....it's EXACTLY why Goodell and the higher ups at the league never saw the video. Goodell will give suspensions to players for pretty minor stuff, but only 2 games for this? No way, not if he had seen the video. Not a chance in hell. That's why idiots that say he saw the video are absolutely not using common sense.
There is also due process, which you should know the league has to follow. This is why the league didn't react until Rice was convicted and took his plea. People don't like, is what it is.
Yup. But the Ravens could have acted on their own if they wanted. I believe the Patriots got rid of Hernandez before the conviction
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Huge difference...they had PLENTY of opportunity to see it or get access to it. Willful ignorance is NOT a good stance here.
It's hypocritical to say due process (which happened, albeit handled terribly by NJ), and then not seek out the video.
Only reason it moved from 2 games to indefinite is because the league reacted to common sense public outrage. Total joke, can NOT have it both ways.
You keep saying they had plenty of opportunities to see this. You sure about that? So many people have been wrong about this the last few days, you sure you want to go down that path?
They asked law enforcement and law enforcement said NO. Legally, they are not entitled to it. They asked his attorney, Diamondstein, he said no. What you are suggesting is they should have broken the law to see a video. Is that "willful ignorance" or them just acting within the confines of the law?
I disagree vehemently with your last statement. Not a doubt in my mind. If they had seen that video in the elevator, there never would have been a 2 game suspension. The video means everything. Not a chance in the world it would have been 2 games and I've heard that directly from our contacts we deal with. There is no reason for them to have done only 2 games if they had seen the video or even understood to what degree it shows....zero upside. I'm not having it both way, they didn't see the video, if they had they wouldn't have done a 2 game suspension....instead, you're having it both ways.
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Yup. But the Ravens could have acted on their own if they wanted. I believe the Patriots got rid of Hernandez before the conviction
Yup, they could have. Difference is that the fiance of Ray Rice said it was an argument, they were drunk, she attacked him, etc. The victims of Hernandez apparently weren't able to meet with the Patriots to make such a case.
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Yup, they could have. Difference is that the fiance of Ray Rice said it was an argument, they were drunk, she attacked him, etc. The victims of Hernandez apparently weren't able to meet with the Patriots to make such a case.
Not gonna lie, I had a good laugh there.
I wonder if anybody who agrees Ray Rice should be out of the NFL is going to pay for Mayweather's next fight
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BREAKING: NFL HAD ACCESS TO THE VIDEO 3 MONTHS AGO, per the AP.
Take that Chicos.
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Let me rephrase that...NFL HAD ACCESS TO THE VIDEO IN APRIL.
APRIL!!!!!
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You keep saying they had plenty of opportunities to see this. You sure about that? So many people have been wrong about this the last few days, you sure you want to go down that path?
They asked law enforcement and law enforcement said NO. Legally, they are not entitled to it. They asked his attorney, Diamondstein, he said no. What you are suggesting is they should have broken the law to see a video. Is that "willful ignorance" or them just acting within the confines of the law?
I disagree vehemently with your last statement. Not a doubt in my mind. If they had seen that video in the elevator, there never would have been a 2 game suspension. The video means everything. Not a chance in the world it would have been 2 games and I've heard that directly from our contacts we deal with. There is no reason for them to have done only 2 games if they had seen the video or even understood to what degree it shows....zero upside. I'm not having it both way, they didn't see the video, if they had they wouldn't have done a 2 game suspension....instead, you're having it both ways.
I stand by every single word.
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BREAKING: NFL HAD ACCESS TO THE VIDEO 3 MONTHS AGO, per the AP.
Take that Chicos.
ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. (AP) — A law enforcement official says he sent a video of Ray Rice punching his then-fiancee to an NFL executive three months ago, while league officers have insisted they didn't see the violent images until this week.
The person played The Associated Press a 12-second voicemail from an NFL office number on April 9 confirming the video arrived. A female voice expresses thanks and says: "You're right. It's terrible."
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'We Asked For Video. We Asked For Anything That's Pertinent. But We Were Never Granted That Opportunity...'
Roger Goodell on Monday.
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I never thought I would say this, but I have zero interest in watching the NFL until Goodell is gone. Buck stops with him, even as he is employed by the owners.
He must go right now. RIGHT. DAMN. NOW.
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'We Asked For Video. We Asked For Anything That's Pertinent. But We Were Never Granted That Opportunity...'
Roger Goodell on Monday.
Goodbye, Roger.
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Here's a question, should Ray Rice be allowed to play football again?
Donte Stallworth killed somebody and wasn't banned from the NFL. Numerous examples of players committing assault and being allowed to play, etc.
Also, Mark Schlereth (and I dislike the guy) said this is either the ultimate cover-up (which I'm starting to doubt), or the ultimate in complete lack of due diligence. If TMZ can acquire the second video, why can't some of the former FBI guys working security for the NFL?
Which one is it now?
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I never thought I would say this, but I have zero interest in watching the NFL until Goodell is gone. Buck stops with him, even as he is employed by the owners.
He must go right now. RIGHT. DAMN. NOW.
If this allegation is true, he may be gone before Sunday.
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"Ignorance is not an execuse".
-Roger Goodell, in the formal letter to the New Orleans Saints organization for punishment on the Bounty Scandal
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The Ravens have Thursday night football this week. I suggest everyone goes to a loud bar for the game so you don't have to listen to 3 hours of Ray Rice talk.
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BREAKING: NFL HAD ACCESS TO THE VIDEO 3 MONTHS AGO, per the AP.
Take that Chicos.
And I'm telling you, the people that gave the suspension or high ranking NFL execs didn't see it. Did they avoid it, who knows. Did they know it was even there? Did they truly have that video and not the other video, who knows. More will come out, I assure you. If they did see the video and they are lying....then they are toast and there will be firings, resignations, etc.
As I mentioned yesterday, I'm friends with the wife of the PR director at the Ravens....they had never seen the video until yesterday. An honest broker forever with them and I trust them to the nth degree. They are also friends with the Rices, and she point blank told me today that no words can describe what was on the video. They were heartbroken to see it and the brutality of it. If that video was seen by the right parties, the outcome would be different. No question in my mind.
We'll see how it plays out.
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And I'm telling you, the people that gave the suspension or high ranking NFL execs didn't see it. Did they avoid it, who knows. Did they know it was even there? Did they truly have that video and not the other video, who knows. More will come out, I assure you. If they did see the video and they are lying....then they are toast and there will be firings, resignations, etc.
As I mentioned yesterday, I'm friends with the wife of the PR director at the Ravens....they had never seen the video until yesterday. An honest broker forever with them and I trust them to the nth degree. They are also friends with the Rices, and she point blank told me today that no words can describe what was on the video. They were heartbroken to see it and the brutality of it. If that video was seen by the right parties, the outcome would be different. No question in my mind.
We'll see how it plays out.
CYA - yourself and goodell.
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The Ravens have Thursday night football this week. I suggest everyone goes to a loud bar for the game so you don't have to listen to 3 hours of Ray Rice talk.
Better yet...don't watch. Want to send a message? Don't watch the game, at all.
Thursday night games suck to begin with...Ravens/Steelers is no longer a "good" game...the Ravens are playing...don't watch.
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Looks like the Ravens turned a blind eye to it as well. http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/ravens-tip-video-ray-rices-lawyer-sources-abc/story?id=25414533
Also, a law enforcement official sent a piece of evidence in an ongoing trial to the suspect's employer? Is that normal?
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Better yet...don't watch. Want to send a message? Don't watch the game, at all.
Thursday night games suck to begin with...Ravens/Steelers is no longer a "good" game...the Ravens are playing...don't watch.
I actually can't watch it. I'll be driving back to Detroit from Chicago
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Looks like the Ravens turned a blind eye to it as well. http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/ravens-tip-video-ray-rices-lawyer-sources-abc/story?id=25414533
Also, a law enforcement official sent a piece of evidence in an ongoing trial to the suspect's employer? Is that normal?
No, it is not. If the case had not been adjudicated, the only individuals allowed to see the tape would be Rice's defense counsel through the discovery process. If true, it could have been a courtesy copy sent to one of the ex-law enforcement officials at the NFL. If case was not adjudicated at the time of sending, then the individual who sent it, could be in trouble with his/her agency or the court.
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No, it is not. If the case had not been adjudicated, the only individuals allowed to see the tape would be Rice's defense counsel through the discovery process. If true, it could have been a courtesy copy sent to one of the ex-law enforcement officials at the NFL. If case was not adjudicated at the time of sending, then the individual who sent it, could be in trouble with his/her agency or the court.
These guys are ex-cops, ex-FBI, ex-Secret Service and have inside connections with lots of law enforcement agencies.
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These guys are ex-cops, ex-FBI, ex-Secret Service and have inside connections with lots of law enforcement agencies.
Well aware of that fact, and that's the point. I mentioned a "courtesy" copy and that courtesy would be between the law enforcement official that sent it and whoever at the NFL. Just speculation on my part, but if it happened that way, the sender could be in some trouble if case wasn't over in courts.
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Rice spat on his wife multiple times, the video starts with him as the agitator, spitting on her before entering the elevator. Rice then approaches his wife in the elevator, gets in her face, and spits again. She tries to defend herself, and then takes the left hook.
There is also a much clearer video, HD quality, that exists.
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Interview from the Baltimore Sun, published today.
Did the video match the story Ray Rice told you?
Ozzie Newsome: "You know. Ray had given a story to John [Harbaugh] and I. And what we saw on the video was what Ray said. Ray didn't lie to me. He didn't lie to me."
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If it is possible for these clowns to look any worse in this whole thing, someone will have to explain how. What a bunch of cretins. As I said in another thread earlier...
Did they see the tape? Did they not see the tape? Did they ask to see it? Did they not ask to see it? Were they not granted access? Did they do enough to get access? In the end the answers to those questions all lead to the exact same place...the NFL and the Ravens simply don't care about this. It isn't/wasn't important to them. There is just no getting around it.
They aren't reacting now because they are concerned about domestic violence, they are reacting because of the public's reaction. They are reacting because they have to. Their concern around domestic violence on the part of their players is about the impact on their business, not the impact on the victims. Everybody can see that plain as day now, and it is for that reason that goddell's days are numbered. They will fond someone else who can make them money, but I just don't suspect they will be able to continue with him as the face of that office.
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The buck stops with Goodell.
Either he's the most incompetent commissioner in the history of sports, or he's lying. It's absolutely one or the other.
I'm sure he won't resign, I'm sure he won't be fired (although I'm adamant he should). Will say this though...excited at the thought of the NFL draft being in Chicago next year...and it has nothing to do with the draft. I'll bring anyone and everyone with me to vocalize loudly against Goodell.
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The owners don't understand this yet, but Goodell has to go. He really does. In today's PR world, you have to take quick decisive action. You can't treat this like a generation ago and wait it out. This is the tact the Catholic Church took...it got defensive and looked inward. Bad news is just going to pile on deeper and deeper until they do something.
If Goodell is just doing what the owners want, they can find someone else to do that. Delaying this is just making it worse.
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The timing of this AP story is not a coincidence, hours after Goodell went on CBS (had to be a coincidence that he happened to pick CBS after they just picked up the Thursday night package), this AP story broke.
Someone within the league, or someone very close to this situation, leaked this today. Bravo to whoever he/she is.
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One more mini-rant.
If you make a salary of $44M per year running a tax free entity, I don't have a problem with it IF YOU UNDERSTAND the responsibilities that come with it. The problem a lot of people have with salaries like that these days is that you get to take credit for all the good things that happen under your watch, but you don't take any of the blame.
Simply put, if you are getting paid that much, you HAVE to be better at your job. And being better can't just be measured in short-term profits. You are a caretaker of a brand, and you are failing miserably right now.
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And I'm telling you, the people that gave the suspension or high ranking NFL execs didn't see it. Did they avoid it, who knows. Did they know it was even there? Did they truly have that video and not the other video, who knows. More will come out, I assure you. If they did see the video and they are lying....then they are toast and there will be firings, resignations, etc.
As I mentioned yesterday, I'm friends with the wife of the PR director at the Ravens....they had never seen the video until yesterday. An honest broker forever with them and I trust them to the nth degree. They are also friends with the Rices, and she point blank told me today that no words can describe what was on the video. They were heartbroken to see it and the brutality of it. If that video was seen by the right parties, the outcome would be different. No question in my mind.
We'll see how it plays out.
I dunno.
Sure sounds a little squirmy!
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One more mini-rant.
If you make a salary of $44M per year running a tax free entity, I don't have a problem with it IF YOU UNDERSTAND the responsibilities that come with it. The problem a lot of people have with salaries like that these days is that you get to take credit for all the good things that happen under your watch, but you don't take any of the blame.
Simply put, if you are getting paid that much, you HAVE to be better at your job. And being better can't just be measured in short-term profits. You are a caretaker of a brand, and you are failing miserably right now.
I just hate when people make a point to say the NFL is tax free. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if they weren't tax exempt it wouldn't matter since teams are taxed at that level and nonprofits go through the NFL.
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Hard to believe it, but Rhianna is doing the Thursday night tv intro song (can't make this stuff up).
Also, hard to believe this independent investigation is just that...independent. 2 NFL owners are overseeing it, and the lawfirm Mueller works at has represented the NFL in multiple cases/negotiations. There's a lot of intertwining between the NFL and WilmerHale. If they come out transparent about this from the get go, that's one thing. But if not...it just keeps getting worse.
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Hard to believe it, but Rhianna is doing the Thursday night tv intro song (can't make this stuff up).
Also, hard to believe this independent investigation is just that...independent. 2 NFL owners are overseeing it, and the lawfirm Mueller works at has represented the NFL in multiple cases/negotiations. There's a lot of intertwining between the NFL and WilmerHale. If they come out transparent about this from the get go, that's one thing. But if not...it just keeps getting worse.
Kinda like the cops investigating themselves every time they shoot somebody. Pretty incestuous relationships.
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Kinda like the cops investigating themselves every time they shoot somebody. Pretty incestuous relationships.
No. I've read in this thread that Goodell and the NFL are above reproach. They're too rich and powerful to be wrong or greedy
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Kinda like the cops investigating themselves every time they shoot somebody. Pretty incestuous relationships.
Man, the digger you deep on the WilmerHale law firm, the more people you find in the NFL that came from that firm. Now Goodell can not speak on the subject because of "an ongoing investigation". Even why they try to show they are getting it right, they get it wrong.
I'm not going to watch the Ravens/Steelers game tomorrow. Not that it matters/makes a difference, but I can't in good faith to myself, as a husband/dad to a young daughter...I just can't. I know I'll watch games on Sunday and can be called a hypocrite then, but I'll tell you what, I know I'm not going to feel good about it. If fall/pumpkin places opened this weekend (most in Chicago burbs open the weekend of the 20th), I'd probably rather be at one of those places all day Sunday then watching the NFL.
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One more mini-rant before I try to sleep...
I know there's nothing good that can probably come of it, but shame on Virginia McCaskey for at least not showing some sign of life on this. I know she doesn't do that kind of thing, I get that...but as one of two principal female owners in the league (Martha Ford the other), and as the bloodline daughter of essentially the founder of the NFL, shame on her and her family for not being a voice in any of this.
I know nothing good could happen, either she'd piss off the other owners or piss off the public by supporting Goodell (which I know she has to do publicly), but it ticks me off. This is the same woman who banned the HoneyBears because they were deemed offensive to women, so it's not like she hasn't taken a stand on something/anything previously.
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One more mini-rant before I try to sleep...
I know there's nothing good that can probably come of it, but shame on Virginia McCaskey for at least not showing some sign of life on this. I know she doesn't do that kind of thing, I get that...but as one of two principal female owners in the league (Martha Ford the other), and as the bloodline daughter of essentially the founder of the NFL, shame on her and her family for not being a voice in any of this.
I know nothing good could happen, either she'd piss off the other owners or piss off the public by supporting Goodell (which I know she has to do publicly), but it ticks me off. This is the same woman who banned the HoneyBears because they were deemed offensive to women, so it's not like she hasn't taken a stand on something/anything previously.
$$$ is her lord
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There is a lot of bad publicity going on for the NFL right now. Regardless of when they saw "the video" it is time for Goddell to resign immediately. Ultimately he is responsible and it is his job to find these things out. He either failed to find out what really happened (get the video) or worse saw the video and didn't properly act on the information.
Either way he needs to resign immediately. He should also apologize to women and fans everywhere.
Also, the Ravens have no credibility here. Heck they are building a monument to Ray Lewis.
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I'm glad the former head of the FBI is being brought in to investigate. Smart move on the NFL's part. Bring a credible, independent party. Won't matter, of course, to many people who have their minds made up.
I don't believe Roger to be a liar in every dealing we've ever had with him. I would be shocked if he is, absolutely shocked.
One owner tonight said the same thing publicly....good man, not a liar, etc.....but also said if he is , then he's gone...no surprise as that would be a no brainer. It's also why I don't believe he is lying and would be totally out of character for him as a person.
We'll see how it shakes out.
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I'm glad the former head of the FBI is being brought in to investigate. Smart move on the NFL's part. Bring a credible, independent party. Won't matter, of course, to many people who have their minds made up.
I don't believe Roger to be a liar in every dealing we've ever had with him. I would be shocked if he is, absolutely shocked.
One owner tonight said the same thing publicly....good man, not a liar, etc.....but also said if he is , then he's gone...no surprise as that would be a no brainer. It's also why I don't believe he is lying and would be totally out of character for him as a person.
We'll see how it shakes out.
So you don't have a problem with the firm that the NFL has on retainer doing "independent research" on the NFL?
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I'm glad the former head of the FBI is being brought in to investigate. Smart move on the NFL's part. Bring a credible, independent party. Won't matter, of course, to many people who have their minds made up.
I don't believe Roger to be a liar in every dealing we've ever had with him. I would be shocked if he is, absolutely shocked.
One owner tonight said the same thing publicly....good man, not a liar, etc.....but also said if he is , then he's gone...no surprise as that would be a no brainer. It's also why I don't believe he is lying and would be totally out of character for him as a person.
We'll see how it shakes out.
Credible, yes. Independent... eh...
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$$$ is her lord
This is what annoys me...it's not as though Goodell is irreplaceable. The Bears will make money regardless of who the commissioner is.
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I'm glad the former head of the FBI is being brought in to investigate. Smart move on the NFL's part. Bring a credible, independent party. Won't matter, of course, to many people who have their minds made up.
I don't believe Roger to be a liar in every dealing we've ever had with him. I would be shocked if he is, absolutely shocked.
One owner tonight said the same thing publicly....good man, not a liar, etc.....but also said if he is , then he's gone...no surprise as that would be a no brainer. It's also why I don't believe he is lying and would be totally out of character for him as a person.
We'll see how it shakes out.
He doesn't have to a be liar. He just cared more about PR than what actually happened. It seems like they knew the lawyer had the tape and the NFL had the leverage. They easily could have said "if the story happened like you said, let's see the tape and you get two games. If not we assume the worse since you aren't willing to cooperate with our investigation. It's important to cooperate with the investigation and be as honest as possible." Instead they took his word and his wife's word at face value despite them both having huge financial reasons to lie. Honestly if they said they were keeping at two games after the video came out, I would be ok with it. Its a private business and if they feel they shouldn't be the judge and jury in private matters, it's their call. It's the fake moral outrage they are showing is disgusting.
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And if they didn't know about the tape, the ravens did and they should be punished for hiding a key part of the investigation. There's just know way they didn't have access to the tape without complete incompetence, someone covering something up (which that person should be publicly fired), or a willful lack of investigation into the tape.
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http://grantland.com/the-triangle/what-does-it-take-to-get-roger-goodell-fired-2/
Some excerpts...
"If owners don’t really care about the NFL setting some grand standard for the rest of society, that’s totally fine. But Monday should scare them. If the NFL ever really loses supremacy in sports and culture, Monday is a good preview of what that looks like. The league will become such a mess that nobody can bring themselves to care about the actual games."
and
"However you feel about football, there are big questions this league has to ask itself over the next few years, and it’s hard to believe Roger Goodell’s the right man to answer them. After almost a decade running the league, he’s getting worse, not better. He’s consistently two steps behind public opinion and miles away from ever actually solving anything."
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I'm not going to watch the Ravens/Steelers game tomorrow. Not that it matters/makes a difference, but I can't in good faith to myself, as a husband/dad to a young daughter...I just can't. I know I'll watch games on Sunday and can be called a hypocrite then, but I'll tell you what, I know I'm not going to feel good about it. If fall/pumpkin places opened this weekend (most in Chicago burbs open the weekend of the 20th), I'd probably rather be at one of those places all day Sunday then watching the NFL.
And herein really lies the problem, because you are absolutely right. Ultimately we are the fuel that powers the machine. They same applies with the whole NCAA $, paying players' etc. We complain about this stuff, get outraged, etc., but until we stop filing through those turnstiles and turning on those TVs, there is little appetite or incentive to really do anything about any of it (myself included - understand, this comes from a guy who has difficulty reconciling my own positions on a lot of this stuff). As fans, we have to hope that public outcry and at least the threat of serious impact on revenue, will provide enough incentive for the NFL, NCAA, etc. to listen and appropriately set priorities.
Now all of that said, the NFL did ultimately make Ray Rice go away. Too late, and clearly demonstrated they were motivated by the wrong reasons and don't really care about what happened, but he is gone. So that's a start. Same goes for all of the concussion, modern day gladiator stuff, etc., if they can demonstrate that they can operate in a clear, consistent manner, balancing moral/ethical behavior with the need to make money, then I think we can all watch to our heart's content without feeling the need to take a shower after. If they can't, and we all continue to tune in to it all, well, then frankly we forfeit our right to complain.
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And herein really lies the problem, because you are absolutely right. Ultimately we are the fuel that powers the machine. They same applies with the whole NCAA $, paying players' etc. We complain about this stuff, get outraged, etc., but until we stop filing through those turnstiles and turning on those TVs, there is little appetite or incentive to really do anything about any of it (myself included - understand, this comes from a guy who has difficulty reconciling my own positions on a lot of this stuff). As fans, we have to hope that public outcry and at least the threat of serious impact on revenue, will provide enough incentive for the NFL, NCAA, etc. to listen and appropriately set priorities.
Now all of that said, the NFL did ultimately make Ray Rice go away. Too late, and clearly demonstrated they were motivated by the wrong reasons and don't really care about what happened, but he is gone. So that's a start. Same goes for all of the concussion, modern day gladiator stuff, etc., if they can demonstrate that they can operate in a clear, consistent manner, balancing moral/ethical behavior with the need to make money, then I think we can all watch to our heart's content without feeling the need to take a shower after. If they can't, and we all continue to tune in to it all, well, then frankly we forfeit our right to complain.
do you think rice should have a lifetime ban? Further, Why did Ray rice have to go away? Why is Greg hardy still allowed to play? Why was donte stallworth allowed to come back?
The nfl needs to establish consistency in their decisions.
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So you don't have a problem with the firm that the NFL has on retainer doing "independent research" on the NFL?
I trust the integrity of Mueller. For the record, we have also worked with him and his firm. The Pope could do the investigation, and people would say Goodell is Catholic and therefore the Pope shouldn't be involved. There are ethical people in this world that can be independent.
As I stated above, it doesn't matter to many people.
I'm just thrilled NOW is weighing in now. From 1992 to 2000 they were on vacation, especially 1997 to 1999...I thought they disbanded. Good to see they are actually alive again and functioning. Always interesting to see who they come out against.
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There is a lot of bad publicity going on for the NFL right now. Regardless of when they saw "the video" it is time for Goddell to resign immediately. Ultimately he is responsible and it is his job to find these things out. He either failed to find out what really happened (get the video) or worse saw the video and didn't properly act on the information.
Either way he needs to resign immediately. He should also apologize to women and fans everywhere.
Also, the Ravens have no credibility here. Heck they are building a monument to Ray Lewis.
Already apologized to women and fans. If he lied, or if he knew someone saw the video then I would agree with you about the resignation. He'll have no support from the owners. If the investigation turns up that isn't the case, he won't need to resign. Let it play out.
What does a monument to Ray Lewis have to do with this incident. We have due process in this country. I don't like Ray Lewis, don't like the squirmy nature around him, but he is guilty of nothing that I'm aware of. They put a statue up because he was a great player, etc. I
MU Dish isn't going to watch the game, ok. I mean, anyone can take a stand on anything. Is he going to stop watching NBA games? Did he boycott MU games for the sexual assault on a female student? You can take this to the nth degree. If BladeRunner Oscar is in the next Olympics, does he boycott watching that race?
To each their own. I think most people watch sports for the love of the competition, the excitement, etc.
The greatest irony in all of this, we have folks in this thread (myself included) that elect officials each election that commit acts that are 10X worse than what what Goodell has done, and nary a word for their resignations....and worse, people keep voting them back in because they have the right letter next to their name. I guess we really stand on principles.
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I trust the integrity of Mueller. For the record, we have also worked with him and his firm. The Pope could do the investigation, and people would say Goodell is Catholic and therefore the Pope shouldn't be involved. There are ethical people in this world that can be independent.
As I stated above, it doesn't matter to many people.
I'm just thrilled NOW is weighing in now. From 1992 to 2000 they were on vacation, especially 1997 to 1999...I thought they disbanded. Good to see they are actually alive again and functioning. Always interesting to see who they come out against.
Keep building those strawmen. It really is your best debating technique.
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Already apologized to women and fans. If he lied, or if he knew someone saw the video then I would agree with you about the resignation. He'll have no support from the owners. If the investigation turns up that isn't the case, he won't need to resign. Let it play out.
What does a monument to Ray Lewis have to do with this incident. We have due process in this country. I don't like Ray Lewis, don't like the squirmy nature around him, but he is guilty of nothing that I'm aware of. They put a statue up because he was a great player, etc. I
MU Dish isn't going to watch the game, ok. I mean, anyone can take a stand on anything. Is he going to stop watching NBA games? Did he boycott MU games for the sexual assault on a female student? You can take this to the nth degree. If BladeRunner Oscar is in the next Olympics, does he boycott watching that race?
To each their own. I think most people watch sports for the love of the competition, the excitement, etc.
Ray Lewis is not guilty of anything? He plead guilty to obstruction of justice in a murder investigation.
And not a single MU player was arrested for sexual assault, yet you manage to bring it up repeatedly when it suits your narrative.
Really sickening.
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I just hate when people make a point to say the NFL is tax free. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if they weren't tax exempt it wouldn't matter since teams are taxed at that level and nonprofits go through the NFL.
Tax-free is not the same as tax exempt. Tax-free simply implies that the organization is not-for-profit.
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http://grantland.com/the-triangle/what-does-it-take-to-get-roger-goodell-fired-2/
Some excerpts...
"If owners don’t really care about the NFL setting some grand standard for the rest of society, that’s totally fine. But Monday should scare them. If the NFL ever really loses supremacy in sports and culture, Monday is a good preview of what that looks like. The league will become such a mess that nobody can bring themselves to care about the actual games."
and
"However you feel about football, there are big questions this league has to ask itself over the next few years, and it’s hard to believe Roger Goodell’s the right man to answer them. After almost a decade running the league, he’s getting worse, not better. He’s consistently two steps behind public opinion and miles away from ever actually solving anything."
I think this sums it up pretty well. The guy hasn't been doing a good job over the last few years and if I'm an owner I'd be real concerned with the public perception of the league right now and Goodell is far from irreplaceable.
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MU Dish isn't going to watch the game, ok. I mean, anyone can take a stand on anything. Is he going to stop watching NBA games? Did he boycott MU games for the sexual assault on a female student? You can take this to the nth degree. If BladeRunner Oscar is in the next Olympics, does he boycott watching that race?
To each their own. I think most people watch sports for the love of the competition, the excitement, etc.
My home office is decorated with Bears/NFL stuff. Pictures of me with various members of Bears players/members of the organization. Pictures of me on the field when I worked for the team. My game day field passes, all kinds of stuff. Clearly from my posts on here, I love professional football.
That's what my kids see everyday, they know Daddy loves football.
If I can in some form, use this as a teaching experience for my son/daughter, you're DAMN right I'm going to. Will it make one second of difference to anyone else? No. And I don't give an F. But if I can somehow use it as a teaching experience, that there is a time now where Daddy doesn't feel it's a positive experience to watch the NFL right now, and teach them why...I'm going to do it for them. Stand on your high horse all you want Chicos, I don't really give a crap what you think.
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I'm not going to watch the Ravens/Steelers game tomorrow. Not that it matters/makes a difference, but I can't in good faith to myself, as a husband/dad to a young daughter...I just can't. I know I'll watch games on Sunday and can be called a hypocrite then, but I'll tell you what, I know I'm not going to feel good about it. If fall/pumpkin places opened this weekend (most in Chicago burbs open the weekend of the 20th), I'd probably rather be at one of those places all day Sunday then watching the NFL.
Not me. There won't be any football games on this weekend at my house. I'd rather spend some time with my son and two daughters.
But I'm not "boycotting" the NFL.... I've been on the fence between NFL apathy and interest for quite some time. It's become more evident every year that football has become nothing more than a bridge that gets me from baseball to college hoops every fall. Thanks for burning down the bridge, Roger.
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Already apologized to women and fans.
Oh, he did? Then everything's cool. Let's everyone carry on like none of this ever happened. I mean, he threw out an empty apology and all
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I'm glad the former head of the FBI is being brought in to investigate. Smart move on the NFL's part. Bring a credible, independent party. Won't matter, of course, to many people who have their minds made up.
I love how the word independent is used. This is not an independent investigation.
The "former head of the FBI" will be overseen by two of Goodell's closest supporters among the owners.
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And herein lies the problem. The "independent investigation" is already being attacked for its lack of independence, so even if the NFL wins the battle regarding its knowledge of the recording, it will lose the battle on whether or not the investigation was biased.
Another dumb decision in a series of dumb decisions.
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No. I've read in this thread that Goodell and the NFL are above reproach. They're too rich and powerful to be wrong or greedy
Said no one here, ever.
Let it play out. If they lied, repercussions will be immense. I would be shocked and disappointed if he did, but we'll find out one way or another.
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I trust the integrity of Mueller. For the record, we have also worked with him and his firm. The Pope could do the investigation, and people would say Goodell is Catholic and therefore the Pope shouldn't be involved. There are ethical people in this world that can be independent.
Why not just use somebody else? Why even bother bringing a conflict of interest into it?
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I love how the word independent is used. This is not an independent investigation.
The "former head of the FBI" will be overseen by two of Goodell's closest supporters among the owners.
Jonathon Vilma tweeted this morning "The NFL hires an independent investigator. That's code for "give us a minute to get our story straight". Can't backtrack anymore huh"
Another great tweet was last night James Harrison tweeted at Goodell "aint no fun when the rabbits got the gun huh"
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I think this sums it up pretty well. The guy hasn't been doing a good job over the last few years and if I'm an owner I'd be real concerned with the public perception of the league right now and Goodell is far from irreplaceable.
The owners don't agree with you in terms of performance past few years and they pay his salary.
Everyone is replaceable. They can make the change if they wish and will if they need to.
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Why not just use somebody else? Why even bother bringing a conflict of interest into it?
I think the thought is that you have to someone who knows where the bodies are buried - someone that has a working knowledge of the organization. That is why they brought Tagliabue in on the bountygate issue, but Tags kind of beat them up about that even though he upheld the rulings.
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Why not just use somebody else? Why even bother bringing a conflict of interest into it?
You are saying bringing in a person that was head of the FBI for a decade doesn't have the credibility?
Hard to find someone higher that the highest ranking law enforcement officer in the country.
But sure, they could and people would still be upset about it.
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My home office is decorated with Bears/NFL stuff. Pictures of me with various members of Bears players/members of the organization. Pictures of me on the field when I worked for the team. My game day field passes, all kinds of stuff. Clearly from my posts on here, I love professional football.
That's what my kids see everyday, they know Daddy loves football.
If I can in some form, use this as a teaching experience for my son/daughter, you're DAMN right I'm going to. Will it make one second of difference to anyone else? No. And I don't give an F. But if I can somehow use it as a teaching experience, that there is a time now where Daddy doesn't feel it's a positive experience to watch the NFL right now, and teach them why...I'm going to do it for them. Stand on your high horse all you want Chicos, I don't really give a crap what you think.
Apparently you do.
Like I said, you take any stance you want... I applaud you...I don't agree, but applaud you.
I'm curious of two things. If the Bears were playing the Ravens tonight, is it still a teachable moment for you?
Second, what about Bears players ( or other sports teams you follow ), when they have gotten in trouble did you feel the same way? Did you not watch games, etc?
Seems a fair question, but I understand if you do not want to answer.
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I think the thought is that you have to someone who knows where the bodies are buried - someone that has a working knowledge of the organization. That is why they brought Tagliabue in on the bountygate issue, but Tags kind of beat them up about that even though he upheld the rulings.
Exactly. You hit that on the nose
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Oh, he did? Then everything's cool. Let's everyone carry on like none of this ever happened. I mean, he threw out an empty apology and all
More hyperbole from you. No one said it fixes anything, I was correcting the statement that no apology was given.
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More hyperbole from you. No one said it fixes anything, I was correcting the statement that no apology was given.
I'm only trying to compete with the King of Strawmen the best I know how
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You are saying bringing in a person that was head of the FBI for a decade doesn't have the credibility?
Hard to find someone higher that the highest ranking law enforcement officer in the country.
But sure, they could and people would still be upset about it.
It lacks credibility when the firm that this FBI director works for frequently represents the NFL and its teams and therefore has quite a history together including the exchanging of millions of dollars. In addition to all of this, the Baltimore Ravens President was formerly employed by this firm.
Why not just use somebody else?
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Apparently you do.
Like I said, you take any stance you want... I applaud you...I don't agree, but applaud you.
I'm curious of two things. If the Bears were playing the Ravens tonight, is it still a teachable moment for you?
Second, what about Bears players ( or other sports teams you follow ), when they have gotten in trouble did you feel the same way? Did you not watch games, etc?
Seems a fair question, but I understand if you do not want to answer.
I don't need you to question my parenting skills, but yes, if the Bears were playing tonight, I'd be watching Bubble Guppies with my kids instead of the Bears game. 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% that would happen.
I'm older, have kids now, more responsibility in my career and life, I'm going to do what I feel is right thing. My passion is professional football. For someone like me to have reached this tipping point, that means something. Greg Hardy, Ray Rice, Ray MacDonald, Leonard Little...one is enough, but I can't take it any more, I can't. That's my stance.
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Including practice squads and injured reserves, there are roughly 1800 players in the NFL.
How many of them have never been found to have abused women, driven drunk, etc.? 1790? 1775?
I don't blame the media for reporting on the miscreants because it is important to expose lawbreakers, but the fact is that there is more attention today placed on athletes and entertainers because of the Internet. So every time there is an incident, the hue and cry follows that "these leagues are filled with overpaid thugs."
What percentage of society abuses spouses, drives drunk, takes illegal drugs, possesses illegal firearms, etc? It probably is higher than the percentage of NFL players that do those things - probably much higher.
The "NFL is filled with thugs" crowd remind me of those who rip "dumb college athletes" ... despite the fact that, at most schools, athletes have a higher graduation rate than the general student body does.
There is no condoning what Ray Rice did - I have already stated within this thread that I believe he is a menace to society who should be in jail - but if I feel like watching an NFL game I will. And I will do so without a moment's worry that I am being a hypocrite.
I watch movies and listen to music even though some actors and musicians are miscreants. I didn't move out of Illinois just because 4 of 7 governors turned out to be criminals. I didn't leave Charlotte last year after the mayor became a convicted felon. And I'm not going to stop watching the NFL just because a few players are bad human beings or because the commissioner is a dope.
I live in Charlotte. One of the Panthers' star players, Greg Hardy, was found guilty of beating up his girlfriend, a misdemeanor. He has appealed and will face a jury trial in the next few months. Neither the Panthers nor the NFL has punished him yet, saying they would wait for the case to work its way through the judicial system. I happen to agree, and it has nothing to do with me being worried that the Panthers will be worse without Hardy. I agree because I believe letting the legal system work is the right thing to do.
The Panthers have 69 players on their active roster, injured reserve and practice squad. To the best of my knowledge, 68 of them are not criminals. And even if I believe Hardy is guilty, guilty, guilty, I am not going to refuse to watch Sunday's game just because 1.5% of the players on the roster are miscreants.
I totally respect those who feel differently and who choose to boycott all NFL games. That is their right and if it makes them feel better about themselves because they are standing up for certain principles, that's all that matters.
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I don't need you to question my parenting skills, but yes, if the Bears were playing tonight, I'd be watching Bubble Guppies with my kids instead of the Bears game. 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% that would happen.
I'm older, have kids now, more responsibility in my career and life, I'm going to do what I feel is right thing. My passion is professional football. For someone like me to have reached this tipping point, that means something. Greg Hardy, Ray Rice, Ray MacDonald, Leonard Little...one is enough, but I can't take it any more, I can't. That's my stance.
I'm not questioning your parenting skills at all.....think you might want to ratchet down the outrage a bit. I appreciate your stance and if that is what you would do, you're being consistent. Again, I applaud you and I'm certainly not questioning your skills.
Thank you for the answer.
I think if you go back in time, you can replace the names you mentioned in your paragraph with others....this has been going on a long time in the NBA, NFL. We can blame poor upbringing, entitlement, too much money too fast, whatever....it's been going on for a long time. Doesn't mean it is widespread, as MU82 points out, but news runs with what makes news. Is it age that you think has changed your views?
The other thing that I think everyone should recognize, if the pendelum swings to the other side and the NFL or NBA or whatever automatically suspends or bans for life anyone accused of domestic violence, you're going to have the reverse impact of trapping some people that shouldn't be.
Where does due process fit into all of this....I ask because of the Hardy, McDonald, etc situations? I find what Hardy did to be 10X worse than Rice, but there is no video. Hardy was also convicted, but it's on appeal....that puts the NFL in a legal quandry with the union as well as the fans, etc. Wish I had the answer.
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I'm only trying to compete with the King of Strawmen the best I know how
You were much better acting as the self proclaimed meathead a few months ago....much more at your skill level.
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It lacks credibility when the firm that this FBI director works for frequently represents the NFL and its teams and therefore has quite a history together including the exchanging of millions of dollars. In addition to all of this, the Baltimore Ravens President was formerly employed by this firm.
Why not just use somebody else?
Lazer, I agree.
But my issue is that the investigation is going to be overseen by the NFL.
It is not an independent investigation.
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Condoleeza Rice
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Condoleeza Rice
she's one helluva a lady/women/person. saw her speak in las vegas a few years ago. but then there are those who will try to discredit her for her political persuasions even though she doesn't wear them on her sleeve. yes, i know she worked under g.w., but she is well respected by many people. if you ran into her, i don't think you would know where she stands politically.
serious question, do some really think this could take down the nfl? that's a lot of people, but i guess if they lose a bunch of sponsors? just wondering how that would work. i'm thinking they have a mega p.r. firm(s) working overtime
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Including practice squads and injured reserves, there are roughly 1800 players in the NFL.
How many of them have never been found to have abused women, driven drunk, etc.? 1790? 1775?
I don't know the numbers, and barely follow the NFL, (I clicked on pg. 8 of this thread to see if it went off an in interesting tangent).
I do know that 28 players have been arrested since the last Super Bowl in February, and that 27 players were arrested during the 2013 off-season. http://www.businessinsider.com/list-of-nfl-player-arrests-2014-9 (http://www.businessinsider.com/list-of-nfl-player-arrests-2014-9)
I'm not arguing with anyone or even trying to make a point, just stating what I found.
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And herein lies the problem. The "independent investigation" is already being attacked for its lack of independence, so even if the NFL wins the battle regarding its knowledge of the recording, it will lose the battle on whether or not the investigation was biased.
Another dumb decision in a series of dumb decisions.
To be fair, whoever conducts the invesitgation would be selected and paid by the NFL to do so , so this sort of complaint is impossible to avoid. Just a matter of degrees.
In the end, when you boil it all down, the commissioner stupidly suspended a guy 4-14 games too few, depending on your POV. Hardly end of the world stuff, especially since they got it right in the end (albeit with a big push from external sources). People love to have excuses to be outraged and vent their frustrations and this gave a bunch of people a great platform to do it, because it's impossible to defend the lightness of the NFL's original suspension.
I'm a casual football fan. I only watch the NFL and then only Jets games and some of the playoffs. But this won't affect my viewing habits one bit.
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Aside from her lying about (or being incompetent about) WMDs in Iraq and then doubling-down on her lies (or incompetence), I have no problem with her.
I had already typed a message almost identical, then decided to check back to see if anyone else said the same thing.
She was/is a brilliant woman who had no problem with being dishonest to further her agenda.
Exactly what the NFL needs right now. :-[
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I was surprised that we were 7+ pages into this and it hadn't veered off into lockable territory. I think it's heading that direction now.
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http://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/super-page/how-are-the-ravens-getting-such-a-free-pass-in-all-of-this/
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Anyone else wonderin' what Jane Skinner thinks about all this chit?
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I had no idea that Jane Skinner was married to Goodell until you mentioned it.
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cbs also pulled plug on rihanna doing thursday night game intro song
http://www.tmz.com/2014/09/11/cbs-rihanna-ravens-steelers-cancelled/
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Anyone else wonderin' what Jane Skinner thinks about all this chit?
http://www.youtube.com/v/4KKXektRX3Y
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Oops - caught lying again!!!!!!
"Ray Rice told NFL commissioner Roger Goodell on June 16 that he punched his then-fiancee in a casino elevator, four sources have told "Outside the Lines," an assertion that contradicts Goodell's statement this week that "when we met with Ray Rice and his representatives, it was ambiguous about what actually happened."
Goodell made the statement Tuesday during an interview with CBS News, saying the latest video released by TMZ Sports about the incident was "inconsistent" with what the former Baltimore Ravens running back had told him. But four sources close to Rice say that during the disciplinary meeting in the commissioner's office on June 16, Rice told Goodell he had hit Janay Rice, then his fiancee, in the face inside a Revel Casino Hotel elevator in Atlantic City, New Jersey, and had knocked her unconscious."
But at least we have been assured that Goodell is an honorable man.
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As opposed to the current occupant of the WH who receives 4 Pinnochios every time he addresses the nation
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the current occupant of the WH was mentioned as a possible commissioner.
Just because Obama has been mostly an incompetent and/or a liar, it doesn't preclude Condi from having been the same.
It's not a mutually exclusive club!
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So the line that Goodell trotted out there that they couldn't get it from the casino was deemed bull chit too.
Paul Loriquet, the Director of Communications for the New Jersey Attorney General, tells TMZ bluntly, "No, it's not illegal."
To be clear ... our question was very specific: "Is it illegal for the casino to show or provide this material to a private entity in an ongoing investigation." His answer, "No, it's not illegal."
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the current occupant of the WH was mentioned as a possible commissioner.
Just because Obama has been mostly an incompetent and/or a liar, it doesn't preclude Condi from having been the same.
It's not a mutually exclusive club!
Maybe PGA commish, hey?
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So the line that Goodell trotted out there that they couldn't get it from the casino was deemed bull chit too.
Paul Loriquet, the Director of Communications for the New Jersey Attorney General, tells TMZ bluntly, "No, it's not illegal."
To be clear ... our question was very specific: "Is it illegal for the casino to show or provide this material to a private entity in an ongoing investigation." His answer, "No, it's not illegal."
Wow. There goes that excuse.
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Wow. There goes that excuse.
Except it wasn't an excuse. It was a lie.
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Except it wasn't an excuse. It was a lie.
I don't know, I read in this thread it was illegal.
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I don't know, I read in this thread it was illegal.
That's what I was referring to.
Goodell has been running with the Cam Newton defense since this thing started: plausible deniability. But the "plausible" portion is running out.
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If you have ownership of something that is being used as evidence in a criminal proceeding, your rights of ownership are not extinguished. You still own whatever it is that's being used in court.
Now, states and counties may have their own statutes/ordinances regarding what can be done during a criminal proceeding, but I would think that as long as the rights of ownership are unencumbered, you have the ability to use your property in any manner you deem unless a court issues an order otherwise. If that means making copies of a tape and distributing them, so long as you're not impeding justice, I don't think that would be against the law in most jurisdictions. If you sent a bunch of copies to the media knowing that they would run it non-stop with editorial during the trial, sure, that might be considered impeding justice. But sending a copy to the suspect's employer (who is bound by the CBA to keep it out of the hands of the public), that's probably not against the law.
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http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/adrian-peterson-indicted-reckless-negligent-injury-to-a-child-091214
Bad week for the NFL.
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http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/adrian-peterson-indicted-reckless-negligent-injury-to-a-child-091214
Bad week for the NFL.
Roger says "no problem as long as there is no video.We don't know how to get it so as long as you don't walk into my office with a Notary Public and the tape, it's all good".
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http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/adrian-peterson-indicted-reckless-negligent-injury-to-a-child-091214
Bad week for the NFL.
If my grandfather lived today he would be in prison.
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i'm not sticking up for either goodell or rice here, but it seems as though there is more vitriol toward goodell than the guy who beat the sheet out of his wife ?-( many of the fans in baltimore didn't seem to care as much as shown by the number of #27 jerseys etc. being worn.
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The Greg Hardy 911 call... wow.
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i'm not sticking up for either goodell or rice here, but it seems as though there is more vitriol toward goodell than the guy who beat the sheet out of his wife ?-( many of the fans in baltimore didn't seem to care as much as shown by the number of #27 jerseys etc. being worn.
I think you are probably right.
Having their team win a game is more important to some people than a woman or kid that they don't know getting beaten.
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betcha the only pkace in the world ya didn't see the video of sugar ray decking his wife was in m & t stadium last night :o down goes janay down goes janay down goes janay...(stolen from the late h.c. of course)
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Can we just make a blanket statement and proclaim all football playas as "animals?"
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Can we just make a blanket statement and proclaim all football playas as "animals?"
umm, no, because that would be a false statement, I have a toothache?
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http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/adrian-peterson-indicted-reckless-negligent-injury-to-a-child-091214
Bad week for the NFL.
Peterson should be in jail. At the very least taking a long unpaid vacation from the NFL.
I'm ok with spanking a kid or providing discipline, but causing lacerations and scars when an NFL player beats his own kid with a stick. Unacceptable.
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11747355/roger-goodell-being-forced-testify-ray-rice-appeal-hearing
Could be an interesting testimony
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I'm still waiting on this super secret evidence that will completely exonerate Goodell, the NFL, and the Ravens.
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I'm still waiting on this super secret evidence that will completely exonerate Goodell, the NFL, and the Ravens.
Let it play out....didn't you learn your lesson in a tiny St. Louis town? ;) Let it play out.
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If my grandfather lived today he would be in prison.
Did anyone happen to see "blackish" last night (my favorite new show, BTW). The entire episode was about this issue.
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Let it play out....didn't you learn your lesson in a tiny St. Louis town? ;) Let it play out.
You should take some lessons from tinier Tallahassee town.
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You should take some lessons from tinier Tallahassee town.
Not sure I understand....that one is being played out also.
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Not sure I understand....that one is being played out also.
Rice's claim is basically that he's being dragged through the mud by Goodell. Just like the victim at FSU is being dragged through the mud by Winston's entourage.
Except here, Rice isn't the victim... he's the one who dragged himself through the mud to get to this point. But like FSU, there's the distinct odor of smoke being used to misdirect and cover up the truth by, dare I say, just about everyone.
"Let's see how it plays out" is something you should say when accusations and indictments are made. At some point, however, there's enough information out there for a reasonable person to distinguish between who is simply spinning the facts vs. who is outright lying.
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Did anyone happen to see "blackish" last night (my favorite new show, BTW). The entire episode was about this issue.
That episode was actually recorded prior to the AP incident(s). It was delayed a few weeks in order to let things cool down. Interesting episode.
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Rice's claim is basically that he's being dragged through the mud by Goodell. Just like the victim at FSU is being dragged through the mud by Winston's entourage.
Except here, Rice isn't the victim... he's the one who dragged himself through the mud to get to this point. But like FSU, there's the distinct odor of smoke being used to misdirect and cover up the truth by, dare I say, just about everyone.
"Let's see how it plays out" is something you should say when accusations and indictments are made. At some point, however, there's enough information out there for a reasonable person to distinguish between who is simply spinning the facts vs. who is outright lying.
You had me until the last sentence, because all too often there isn't enough information out there for a reasonable person to distinguish. That's the problem. Let's use that little town near St. Louis as an example. Did you know there were 6 African American witnesses that back up officer Wilson's story? I doubt it, because the media never reported it. Instead, the media reported TWO PEOPLE's views, one of which is a convicted felon, and their versions. Were these other witnesses known to be out and ignored? Wouldn't that information been somewhat useful as the story was being told, but we don't find out about them until this week. Really? I say let it play out because we don't know what is or isn't known, instead we have to go through an agenda driven media that decides what you get to read, see, and hear. In some cases, they'll even edit audio and put two random sentences together and pretend like the person said it in one fell swoop....with such trusted entities delivering in the information, I'd call them liars (or enablers at the least) before anyone else because too much of the key information isn't put out there.
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Anyone see this crap?
(He's carrying a doll.)
What a parenting job. smdh
(http://dunk360.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Screen-Shot-2014-10-26-at-10.46.21-AM.png)
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That's pretty funny
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People are terrible.
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--2manjbiv--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/dbxiuhwjwxud1s8ngpfn.jpg)
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Anyone see this crap?
(He's carrying a doll.)
What a parenting job. smdh
(http://dunk360.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Screen-Shot-2014-10-26-at-10.46.21-AM.png)
Kid could have done without the blackface, but I like the missing teeth and facial expression that conveys the intellect of, well, a dumb child. So basically, it's a spot on costume.
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People make me laugh at what they are outraged by.
Is it ok to dress up as a chainsaw massacre guy....I mean, afterall his reason for being is to kill people. Is it ok to wear an Obama mask vs putting black face on? Is it ok to wear and ebola or Hazmat costume? How about George Bush with a Hitler mustache? What about wearing a Chicago Blackhawk jersey with a full headdress?
(http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/slides/photos/003/016/331/hi-res-160921185_crop_north.jpg?w=630&h=420&q=75)
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We'll mark down Chicos in the supporter of domestic violence column.
Care you share your thoughts on Gamergate too?
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People make me laugh at what they are outraged by.
Is it ok to dress up as a chainsaw massacre guy....I mean, afterall his reason for being is to kill people. Is it ok to wear an Obama mask vs putting black face on? Is it ok to wear and ebola or Hazmat costume? How about George Bush with a Hitler mustache? What about wearing a Chicago Blackhawk jersey with a full headdress?
(http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/slides/photos/003/016/331/hi-res-160921185_crop_north.jpg?w=630&h=420&q=75)
I believe that guy is the son of a self-identified, 1/32nd Cherokee princess. So it's ok.
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People make me laugh at what they are outraged by.
Is it ok to dress up as a chainsaw massacre guy....I mean, afterall his reason for being is to kill people. Is it ok to wear an Obama mask vs putting black face on? Is it ok to wear and ebola or Hazmat costume? How about George Bush with a Hitler mustache? What about wearing a Chicago Blackhawk jersey with a full headdress?
It's the blackface moron.
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People make me laugh at what they are outraged by.
Is it ok to dress up as a chainsaw massacre guy....I mean, afterall his reason for being is to kill people. Is it ok to wear an Obama mask vs putting black face on? Is it ok to wear and ebola or Hazmat costume? How about George Bush with a Hitler mustache? What about wearing a Chicago Blackhawk jersey with a full headdress?
(http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/slides/photos/003/016/331/hi-res-160921185_crop_north.jpg?w=630&h=420&q=75)
Yes, Chico's, because dressing up like a fictional horror film character is the exact same as dressing up as an abusive man and his victim for kicks.
And wearing a mask of president is the same thing, with the same racist overtones, as blackface.
Christ, you can't even get it right about the Blackhawks, which are not named after a tribe, but rather a person (Chief Black Hawk, who inspired the name of a WWI military unit in which the Hawks' first owner served).
Who thought it was possible to cram so much tone deafness and obtuseness into a single post?
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Yes, Chico's, because dressing up like a fictional horror film character is the exact same as dressing up as an abusive man and his victim for kicks.
And wearing a mask of president is the same thing, with the same racist overtones, as blackface.
Christ, you can't even get it right about the Blackhawks, which are not named after a tribe, but rather a person (Chief Black Hawk, who inspired the name of a WWI military unit in which the Hawks' first owner served).
Who thought it was possible to cram so much tone deafness and obtuseness into a single post?
Because he was gone for a few days, and needs his fix for attention. Just ignore him, I have, and it's awesome.
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Yes, Chico's, because dressing up like a fictional horror film character is the exact same as dressing up as an abusive man and his victim for kicks.
And wearing a mask of president is the same thing, with the same racist overtones, as blackface.
Christ, you can't even get it right about the Blackhawks, which are not named after a tribe, but rather a person (Chief Black Hawk, who inspired the name of a WWI military unit in which the Hawks' first owner served).
Who thought it was possible to cram so much tone deafness and obtuseness into a single post?
I agree with almost all of this, but in fairness, wearing an Obama mask is perfectly acceptable provided the context involves one lampooning Obama (i.e. a specific person, not a race), whereas blackface is never appropriate unless done strictly for artistic, historic or pedagogical purposes.
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Who thought it was possible to cram so much tone deafness and obtuseness into a single post?
Anybody who reads chicos' posts.
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We'll mark down Chicos in the supporter of domestic violence column.
Care you share your thoughts on Gamergate too?
LOL. Yes, and don't forget if you wear a hockey mask with a fake knife, you support murder.
I have no doubt someone is outraged over a Schmitt's Gay ad...even though it is a faux ad just like this is a faux costume. Is it in bad taste? Sure. Is dressing up as a redneck in bad taste? Yes. Is dressing up
As a slutty Disney princess? Sure. Welcome to Halloween
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LOL. Yes, and don't forget if you wear a hockey mask with a fake knife, you support murder.
I have no doubt someone is outraged over a Schmitt's Gay ad...even though it is a faux ad just like this is a faux costume. Is it in bad taste? Sure. Is dressing up as a redneck in bad taste? Yes. Is dressing up
As a slutty Disney princess? Sure. Welcome to Halloween
There is a clear line between dressing up as a fictional horror-movie character and attempting to incite controversy.
Let me help you out and put it into picture-form. Point to the Halloween costume that is unequivocally & exponentially more offensive and inciting than the other:
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It's the blackface moron.
Yeah, I've boycotted Cheers forever since their star once went in costume with blackface....with Whoopi Goldberg I might add.
Went to see The Judge a few days ago, whenever Robert Downey jr. appeared on screen I turned away due to his role in blackface several years ago.
Someone has to have standards around here.
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It's Halloween.
No tone deafness at all. It's unnatural carnal knowledgeing Halloween. Not surprising the same pants pissers are fauxraged by this stuff, but hey if they were lampooning a "redneck" it would be just fine. LOL.
Relax...it's Halloween. Focus on outlawing tag in schools during Halloween or making sure everyone gets a ribbon
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Yes, Chico's, because dressing up like a fictional horror film character is the exact same as dressing up as an abusive man and his victim for kicks.
And wearing a mask of president is the same thing, with the same racist overtones, as blackface.
Christ, you can't even get it right about the Blackhawks, which are not named after a tribe, but rather a person (Chief Black Hawk, who inspired the name of a WWI military unit in which the Hawks' first owner served).
Who thought it was possible to cram so much tone deafness and obtuseness into a single post?
I know exactly what they were named after, but some Native Americans don't want the club to keep the name and certain wearing a headdress is terrible. No Pakuni, I know it just fine.
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Went to see The Judge a few days ago, whenever Robert Downey jr. appeared on screen I turned away due to his role in blackface several years ago.
Did you go with anybody famous?
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It's Halloween.
No tone deafness at all. It's unnatural carnal knowledgeing Halloween. Not surprising the same pants pissers are fauxraged by this stuff, but hey if they were lampooning a "redneck" it would be just fine. LOL.
Relax...it's Halloween. Focus on outlawing tag in schools during Halloween or making sure everyone gets a ribbon
I can think of no better example of your cluelessness here than the fact you equate lampooning a redneck to blackface.
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It's Halloween.
No tone deafness at all. It's unnatural carnal knowledgeing Halloween. Not surprising the same pants pissers are fauxraged by this stuff, but hey if they were lampooning a "redneck" it would be just fine. LOL.
Relax...it's Halloween. Focus on outlawing tag in schools during Halloween or making sure everyone gets a ribbon
If you don't understand the difference between making fun of a "redneck" and putting on blackface, you truly are ignorant.
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There was a poll done on this very thing....to me, Halloween is the key.
Interesting results.
https://today.yougov.com/news/2013/11/01/Americans-divided-black-face/
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There was a poll done on this very thing....to me, Halloween is the key.
Interesting results.
https://today.yougov.com/news/2013/11/01/Americans-divided-black-face/
Oh my god, it doesn't matter. Blackface is not f*cking okay!
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Chicos - Just give it up... you can't go in blackface as Ray Rice, and if you can't justify it to us, you're not going to justify it to anyone else.
The good news is that you still have 3 days to come up with a new costume. Might I suggest "Crazy Backwards Guy" a la Adam Sandler?
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There was a poll done on this very thing....to me, Halloween is the key.
Interesting results.
https://today.yougov.com/news/2013/11/01/Americans-divided-black-face/
Do you base all your principles on Internet polls?
The irony here is that in this thread and the nickname thread you've cited opinion polls to defend your views ... yet in another thread (the one about the Pope), you lament the possibility that the Church's stances may be evolving in part because of the opinion of its members.
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I don't know if I'm "offended" by blackface...
But, I do think it's in poor taste, and I would never recommend it to my friends.
Sort of like cargo shorts.
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Does DirecTV do a costume contest?
I'd like to see Chicos in full blackface, Ray Rice jersey and carrying a beat up mannequin into work.
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Sort of like cargo shorts.
Blasphemy. It is all fun and games until you start dissing cargo shorts.
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Does DirecTV do a costume contest?
I'd like to see Chicos in full blackface, Ray Rice jersey and carrying a beat up mannequin into work.
I don't know, plus I don't work for them any longer as I have a new gig.
I'd bet if I walked around with a Schmitt's Gay poster, that would be frowned upon by some, but you never know. That company sells porn, lots of people over the years outraged at that. They sell NFL, people outraged about that. They have the LOGO network, people outraged about that. Etc, etc.
Based on the poll I linked, it looks like most people that responded (a plurality) think that for Halloween, pretty much anything goes, which is also why I said Halloween. If a white guy wants to dress up as Michael Jackson and use blackface, knock yourself out. If some guy wants to dress up as a woman, or vice versa....knock yourself out. If an African American wants to put on whiteface and act like a white guy, knock yourself out. Clockwork Orange, Miley Cyrus, Captain Kirk, Clarence Thomas, Mork, pregnant Britany Spears....I don't particularly give a rip.
Others are outraged....goes with the world today. It's Halloween, sorry...I don't get excited about Halloween and what people are wearing. I used to, but not any more. Just laugh at the world, you'll live longer.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_et93D8iOxQ/UW_1lzGjBgI/AAAAAAAAIAs/0HwrXMsXme8/s1600/Funny-Halloween-Marlboro-Pack.jpg)
(http://www.uncleardestination.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/baby-birth-costume.png)
(http://cdn2.business2community.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/condom-halloween-costume-kid__oPt.jpg)
(http://cdn.business2community.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/a97942_kid-halloween_6-mermaid.jpg)
(http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/creative-costumes-28.jpg)
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I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone what laughs at the world more than me.
However, I do have an issue with these stances you take because I don't think you have a hair on your ass to walk into a corporate environment, such as DirecTV, with that costume on. If you really felt it was acceptable you would.
Congrats on a new gig though. It has to be nice to avoid all the questions on here now.
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I don't know, plus I don't work for them any longer as I have a new gig.
I'd bet if I walked around with a Schmitt's Gay poster, that would be frowned upon by some, but you never know. That company sells porn, lots of people over the years outraged at that. They sell NFL, people outraged about that. They have the LOGO network, people outraged about that. Etc, etc.
Based on the poll I linked, it looks like most people that responded (a plurality) think that for Halloween, pretty much anything goes, which is also why I said Halloween. If a white guy wants to dress up as Michael Jackson and use blackface, knock yourself out. If some guy wants to dress up as a woman, or vice versa....knock yourself out. If an African American wants to put on whiteface and act like a white guy, knock yourself out. Clockwork Orange, Miley Cyrus, Captain Kirk, Clarence Thomas, Mork, pregnant Britany Spears....I don't particularly give a rip.
Others are outraged....goes with the world today. It's Halloween, sorry...I don't get excited about Halloween and what people are wearing.
The vast majority of people are white! What is wrong with you? Racist caractures are okay if a majority has no problem with it? You are either a troll or completely clueless about race history in the US.
There is a difference between something being in poor taste and being blatantly racist.
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I don't know, plus I don't work for them any longer as I have a new gig.
I hate to say I told you so, but I told you not to wear your Ray Rice costume.
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I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone what laughs at the world more than me.
However, I do have an issue with these stances you take because I don't think you have a hair on your ass to walk into a corporate environment, such as DirecTV, with that costume on. If you really felt it was acceptable you would.
Congrats on a new gig though. It has to be nice to avoid all the questions on here now.
The corporate world is the corporate world...I wouldn't walk into IBM, Ebay, Mattel or anywhere else wearing a Schmitt's Gay shirt either, or for that matter as Conan the Barbarian. You're confusing, for some reason, what someone believes is fine to do in the privacy of their home or community (Halloween) vs at work. You can get drunk all day long at home, but don't bring it to work. You can smoke pot all day at home, but don't bring it to work. You can sit around naked with all of your buddies in private, but don't bring it to work. I don't see your parallels at all suggesting that what someone finds acceptable in private has anything to do with corporate America. Also, to be fair, I said from the start I laugh at what people get outraged over. Doesn't mean I condone it, I just marvel at what people get hot and bothered about.
As for the new gig, it's complicated...I'm still very much attached to them but there are distinct entities which make things different.
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The vast majority of people are white! What is wrong with you? Racist caractures are okay if a majority has no problem with it? You are either a troll or completely clueless about race history in the US.
There is a difference between something being in poor taste and being blatantly racist.
Sorry Augh, but someone putting on blackface (thanks for the spelling lesson) and wearing a Michael Jackson costume for Halloween I don't feel is blatantly racist. You do. Fine. To each their own. For Halloween, I don't see it as a big deal, people get dressed up.
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Sorry Augh, but someone putting on blackface (thanks for the spelling lesson) and wearing a Michael Jackson costume for Halloween I don't feel is blatantly racist. You do. Fine. To each their own. For Halloween, I don't see it as a big deal, people get dressed up.
You have officially jumped the shark, Chicos. Blackface, no matter the costume, is racist. Consult with HR at your company for an education.
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You have officially jumped the shark, Chicos. Blackface, no matter the costume, is racist. Consult with HR at your company for an education.
Never thought I would agree with Chicos on anything ever, but....
As someone who thinks racism is still rampant (including the name Redskins), Halloween is the one time where it may be OK to do this. For that one day, I think the less taste, the better.
I mean, Freddy Krueger - a mass murderer - isn't offensive, but blackface is?
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You have officially jumped the shark, Chicos. Blackface, no matter the costume, is racist. Consult with HR at your company for an education.
Again, you're talking about a corporate world. What does HR have to do with Halloween? Nothing, absolutely nothing. For some reason you and PTM keep merging HR into this, I don't know why.
I'm talking about Halloween. What you're saying is if someone wanted to dress up as Bob Marley for Halloween, that's racist....not because they love Bob Marley or his music. It's part of the costume, it isn't a remake of some minstrel show from the 1920's. Not everything is racist. Now, will someone somewhere take it that way? Oh, you bet your bottom dollar, but that's the world we live today. I'm pretty sure if I said "You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking" that HR wouldn't be happy either, yet a whole bunch of people said that wasn't racist. I guess they didn't jump the shark.
When writing scripts, is it racist for the screenwriter to portray a character with certain stereotypical traits? Or does that help tell the story, in essence a costume? I'm asking.
Context matters. Intentions matter....hell, even Brandx will read this article because it's from HuffPost. LOL. This guy gets it....perfectly (shh, he must be an Uncle Tom)
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/ike-awgu/blackface-halloween-racism_b_4177000.html
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Again, you're talking about a corporate world. What does HR have to do with Halloween? Nothing, absolutely nothing. For some reason you and PTM keep merging HR into this, I don't know why.
I'm talking about Halloween. What you're saying is if someone wanted to dress up as Bob Marley for Halloween, that's racist....not because they love Bob Marley or his music. It's part of the costume, it isn't a remake of some minstrel show from the 1920's. Not everything is racist. Now, will someone somewhere take it that way? Oh, you bet your bottom dollar, but that's the world we live today. I'm pretty sure if I said "You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking" that HR wouldn't be happy either, yet a whole bunch of people said that wasn't racist. I guess they didn't jump the shark.
When writing scripts, is it racist for the screenwriter to portray a character with certain stereotypical traits? Or does that help tell the story, in essence a costume? I'm asking.
Context matters. Intentions matter....hell, even Brandx will read this article because it's from HuffPost. LOL. This guy gets it....perfectly (shh, he must be an Uncle Tom)
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/ike-awgu/blackface-halloween-racism_b_4177000.html
I apologize to all for agreeing with something this guy said. He is still a douchebag!
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Does dressing up in blackface on Halloween alone make you racist? Probably not. But if you do, you are probably a racist bigoted jaghole the 364 other days of the year.
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Does dressing up in blackface on Halloween alone make you racist? Probably not. But if you do, you are probably a racist bigoted jaghole the 364 other days of the year.
And that, kids, is what we call a "correlation."
This thread's W is awarded to Renko.
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This just disappoints me overall in society.
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Does dressing up in blackface on Halloween alone make you racist? Probably not. But if you do, you are probably a racist bigoted jaghole the 364 other days of the year.
That's what we call an enormous leap of ridiculous proportions. So that I get this straight, Ted Danson is a racist bigoted jaghole the other 364 days of the year...the same Ted Danson that is so bigoted and racist that that he was going out with....drum roll....an African American.
LOL.
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This just disappoints me overall in society.
Lots of things in society disappoint me....things like making up testimony to pin things on people. That disappoints me greatly.
Reading about this poor SOB today, that disappoints me tremendously. http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/detroit/detroit-man-fights-30k-child-support-bill-for-kid-that-is-not-his
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Never thought I would agree with Chicos on anything ever, but....
As someone who thinks racism is still rampant (including the name Redskins), Halloween is the one time where it may be OK to do this. For that one day, I think the less taste, the better.
I mean, Freddy Krueger - a mass murderer - isn't offensive, but blackface is?
You know Freddy Krueger is a fictional character who didn't actually murder anyone, right?
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You know Freddy Krueger is a fictional character who didn't actually murder anyone, right?
Last year I was John Wayne Gacy Clown at a party in Chicago. One girl left the party as she claimed to have known a victim. It was then I knew that I won Halloween
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Lots of things in society disappoint me....things like making up testimony to pin things on people. That disappoints me greatly.
Reading about this poor SOB today, that disappoints me tremendously. http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/detroit/detroit-man-fights-30k-child-support-bill-for-kid-that-is-not-his
Oh my god, you're an MRA.
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I'm talking about Halloween. What you're saying is if someone wanted to dress up as Bob Marley for Halloween, that's racist....not because they love Bob Marley or his music. It's part of the costume, it isn't a remake of some minstrel show from the 1920's. Not everything is racist. Now, will someone somewhere take it that way? Oh, you bet your bottom dollar, but that's the world we live today. I'm pretty sure if I said "You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking" that HR wouldn't be happy either, yet a whole bunch of people said that wasn't racist. I guess they didn't jump the shark.
Christ you're an idiot. It doesn't matter how it makes YOU feel. It IS racism in one of it's most obvious forms.
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Last year I was John Wayne Gacy Clown at a party in Chicago. One girl left the party as she claimed to have known a victim. It was then I knew that I won Halloween
The quote that Tragedy + Time = Comedy was first credited to Steve Allen in the 1950s. It became a mantra to many comics. I guess a lot of people take offense at that definition today.
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Oh my god, you're an MRA.
What's an MRA?
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That's what we call an enormous leap of ridiculous proportions. So that I get this straight, Ted Danson is a racist bigoted jaghole the other 364 days of the year...the same Ted Danson that is so bigoted and racist that that he was going out with....drum roll....an African American.
LOL.
Doing something blatantly offensive such as wearing blackface doesn't necessarily make one a racist bigoted jaghole. More likely, it makes you misinformed and tone deaf.
Incessantly defending such actions on the other hand ....
Also, TIL that a person dating an African American couldn't possibly do anything offensive. I'll add this to the "but I have black/Hispanic/gay friends" defense for bigotry.
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I apologize to all for agreeing with something this guy said. He is still a douchebag!
But he's our douchebag!
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What's an MRA?
Men's Right Activist. Basically the worst people on the internet who think women are the enemy.
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You know Freddy Krueger is a fictional character who didn't actually murder anyone, right?
So wearing a Bob Marley costume is offensive, but wearing a costume with blood dripping off a chainsaw is ok. Cool. Got it.
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Oh my god, you're an MRA.
Did you read the article? I'm about fairness, that guy is getting hosed. Did you notice he was African American....does that make me a AAMRA?
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Christ you're an idiot. It doesn't matter how it makes YOU feel. It IS racism in one of it's most obvious forms.
So you didn't read the article by the African American that agrees 100% with me on this.....you can call me an idiot all you want....I guess you are calling him an idiot as well. Must be an Uncle Tom Idiot...right? LOL
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Doing something blatantly offensive such as wearing blackface doesn't necessarily make one a racist bigoted jaghole. More likely, it makes you misinformed and tone deaf.
Incessantly defending such actions on the other hand ....
Also, TIL that a person dating an African American couldn't possibly do anything offensive. I'll add this to the "but I have black/Hispanic/gay friends" defense for bigotry.
Perhaps true, but to make a ridiculous statement that Reinko made with such broad strokes was just that...ridiculous. As for Ted Danson, I don't find your analogy compelling. IMO.
Again, it's Halloween. Context is everything.
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But he's our douchebag!
Brandx calling me a douchebag when he called my wife a liar....there is a special place in hypocrisy land for Brandx. I also love his liberal "tolerance", if you don't agree with his views of the world, you're a douchebag.....tolerance baby....progress....moving forward.
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Good sweet gentle baby jeebus....even I'm considering using the report to moderator feature on this thread....firebomb this whole damn thread.
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Brandx calling me a douchebag when he called my wife a liar....there is a special place in hypocrisy land for Brandx. I also love his liberal "tolerance", if you don't agree with his views of the world, you're a douchebag.....tolerance baby....progress....moving forward.
As I have said before - I don't believe I have ever referenced your wife in any way, in any form, or at any time. But just to be sure, maybe you could ask that secret black "friend" of yours.
You are the liar.
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Christ you're an idiot. It doesn't matter how it makes YOU feel. It IS racism in one of it's most obvious forms.
Could you please not use the Lord's name in vain....it's incredibly disappointing and even though it may not impact you, it impacts others. Thanks
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So wearing a Bob Marley costume is offensive, but wearing a costume with blood dripping off a chainsaw is ok. Cool. Got it.
A Bob Marley costume and blackface are synonymous?
But yes, dressing as a fictional character - even a murderous one - is indeed less offensive than blackface.
As has often been the case, you're either completely obtuse regarding historical context or willfully ignorant of it.
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A Bob Marley costume and blackface are synonymous?
But yes, dressing as a fictional character - even a murderous one - is indeed less offensive than blackface.
As has often been the case, you're either completely obtuse regarding historical context or willfully ignorant of it.
Well, you may want to talk to him and others. I guess he, as an African American, is obtuse and or willfully ignorant. His email is attached, please feel free to educate him.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/ike-awgu/blackface-halloween-racism_b_4177000.html
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https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=Aj0OnR2Y2YubwDE_otVgX_6bvZx4?fr=yfp-t-250-s&toggle=1&fp=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&p=the%20only%20winning%20move%20is%20not%20to%20play
30+ years ago, Joshua the WOPR figured out what to do about this guy.
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Well, you may want to talk to him and others. I guess he, as an African American, is obtuse and or willfully ignorant. His email is attached, please feel free to educate him.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/ike-awgu/blackface-halloween-racism_b_4177000.html
Nice try, Chico's, but the author here says essentially the same thing I said a few posts ago ... that wearing blackface isn't necessarily racist, but it is offensive.
Now, if I go find a link to a essay by an African American who says blackface is indeed racist, will you then agree ... since the author is African American? Or does that lame little rhetorical trick only work when it's a person who you think - in this case, wrongly - shares your position?
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I don't know if I'm "offended" by blackface...
But, I do think it's in poor taste, and I would never recommend it to my friends.
Sort of like cargo shorts.
haha amazing analogy
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Shame on me for jumping in this thread...
Here's an explanation of why blackface is so offensive.
http://www.vox.com/2014/10/29/7089591/dont-get-whats-wrong-with-blackface-heres-why-its-so-offensive
"The ability to be ignorant, to be unaware of the history and consequences of racial bigotry, to simply do as one pleases, is a quintessential element of privilege. The ability to disparage, to demonize, to ridicule, and to engage in racially hurtful practices from the comfort of one's segregated neighborhoods and racially homogeneous schools reflects both privilege and power. The ability to blame others for being oversensitive, for playing the race card, or for making much ado about nothing are privileges codified structurally and culturally."
or perhaps you like helpful pictures
(http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ENHO4Mf6klkHsLwUBy7c1Qzg08M=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2403358/blackfaceflowchart.0.png)
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Shame on me for jumping in this thread...
Here's an explanation of why blackface is so offensive.
http://www.vox.com/2014/10/29/7089591/dont-get-whats-wrong-with-blackface-heres-why-its-so-offensive
"The ability to be ignorant, to be unaware of the history and consequences of racial bigotry, to simply do as one pleases, is a quintessential element of privilege. The ability to disparage, to demonize, to ridicule, and to engage in racially hurtful practices from the comfort of one's segregated neighborhoods and racially homogeneous schools reflects both privilege and power. The ability to blame others for being oversensitive, for playing the race card, or for making much ado about nothing are privileges codified structurally and culturally."
or perhaps you like helpful pictures
(http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ENHO4Mf6klkHsLwUBy7c1Qzg08M=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2403358/blackfaceflowchart.0.png)
Despite my earlier post, I agree almost completely.
I just think Halloween - which has evolved into a holiday to see who can be the most tasteless and offensive - may be the one time it is acceptable because it is not a statement of someone's beliefs (as it would be if done at any other time).
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Yeah, I've boycotted Cheers forever since their star once went in costume with blackface....with Whoopi Goldberg I might add.
Went to see The Judge a few days ago, whenever Robert Downey jr. appeared on screen I turned away due to his role in blackface several years ago.
Someone has to have standards around here.
Nothing funnier than picturing Chicos sitting around watching Cheers thinking to himself, "They sure don't make sitcoms like they used to. Those were truly the halcyon days."
And Downey Jr. wore blackface to mock moronic actors who would do that thinking it was "method". Not surprising you would miss that not-so-subtle point.
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Chicos,
Do you find it acceptable for two people to go as slave and slave master for Halloween? Blackface, whip, whip marks, etc.
What about a blackface civil rights protestor and a police officer with a dog or firehose?
Curious if you have a place where you draw the line.
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Nice try, Chico's, but the author here says essentially the same thing I said a few posts ago ... that wearing blackface isn't necessarily racist, but it is offensive.
Now, if I go find a link to a essay by an African American who says blackface is indeed racist, will you then agree ... since the author is African American? Or does that lame little rhetorical trick only work when it's a person who you think - in this case, wrongly - shares your position?
Apparently Reinko and others here feel that it is an indication of the 364 other days that they are, indeed, racist. I'm glad to see this author doesn't agree. I'm glad to read some of the tweets in support of his position. I was equally interested in reading the tweets that lambasted him, calling him an Uncle Tom. Tolerance. Progress. Moving forward.
Right back at you on the nice try....you'll note that I said someone will find it offensive, someone always does. So you can find those articles if you wish, there are plenty out there, but I've already covered it. There is always someone that is outraged over something....and nothing is easier to scream these days than racist, especially when there is no other argument. It's been wonderful to see in the campaigns, that's for sure. Don't agree with my position on environment...well...uhm...racist!!!
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Chicos,
Do you find it acceptable for two people to go as slave and slave master for Halloween? Blackface, whip, whip marks, etc.
What about a blackface civil rights protestor and a police officer with a dog or firehose?
Curious if you have a place where you draw the line.
Absolutely would not....because that is a truly racial connotation.
Dressing up as Bob Marley isn't. Dressing up as a slave owner with a whip, is. As I said earlier, context and intent is everything. That's why I like that author's point, that context and intent is, in fact, everything. People run around screaming racism at every turn because its easy, when in fact that isn't the case at all. In your example above, that would be the intent.
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Absolutely would not....because that is a truly racial connotation.
Dressing up as Bob Marley isn't. Dressing up as a slave owner with a whip, is. As I said earlier, context and intent is everything. That's why I like that author's point, that context and intent is, in fact, everything. People run around screaming racism at every turn because its easy, when in fact that isn't the case at all. In your example above, that would be the intent.
Thanks for clarifying. I understand but disagree.
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Is wearing black face on Halloween racist? Probably not. But if you do, you have probably used the n word to describe an African American who currently you off on the freeway.
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Absolutely would not....because that is a truly racial connotation.
Dressing up as Bob Marley isn't. Dressing up as a slave owner with a whip, is. As I said earlier, context and intent is everything. That's why I like that author's point, that context and intent is, in fact, everything. People run around screaming racism at every turn because its easy, when in fact that isn't the case at all. In your example above, that would be the intent.
Why do you keep changing "blackface" into "dressing up as Bob Marley?"
These are not the same thing.
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Is wearing black face on Halloween racist? Probably not. But if you do, you have probably used the n word to describe an African American who currently you off on the freeway.
Is teal not working?
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Fun fact: Bob Marley was half white. His dad was a British guy who was a land surveyor in Jamaica
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Fun fact: Bob Marley was half white. His dad was a British guy who was a land surveyor in Jamaica
^ That is wrong, British guy?? I thought they were to be referred to as chaps not guys ;)
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Fun fact: Bob Marley was half white. His dad was a British guy who was a land surveyor in Jamaica
So it would only be half racist then if you went blackface with Bob Marley costume....awesome. I'm Jammed, hope you're Jammin, too....
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http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=11832947
Goodell denying it to the end. Good end not changing his story, I guess.
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http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=11832947
Goodell denying it to the end. Good end not changing his story, I guess.
Wow! Wonder who's lying. Goodell or ALL of the sources. I'm sure Mueller will nail Goodell in his report.
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Interesting case. It appears by all accounts that Rice told Goddell exactly what happened and was punished according to what actually occurred.
For what ever insane reason Goddell apparently never thought the actual tape would go public, when it did he had to try to cover his ass.
Now he's in a jam. He is in the wrong for punishing Rice twice for the same violation. Rice, legally, should be reinstated.
So what to do with Goddell then, he has shamed the league, apparently lied under oath. He needs to go.
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I don't understand the marginal benefit that the owners think they get from Goddell. There are a lot of smart guys who can do the job that he has done IMO. He has too many built up loyalties among influential owners however, and let's face it, even if they are forced to reinstate Rice, there isn't going to be a substantive backlash.
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Wow! Wonder who's lying. Goodell or ALL of the sources. I'm sure Mueller will nail Goodell in his report.
It is impossible to respect Goodell, and I'm 99.9999% sure he is a liar.
Why would Ozzie Newsome lie? Unlike Goodell, he has nothing to gain from lying.
Goodell has humiliated himself and his supporters.
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It is impossible to respect Goodell, and I'm 99.9999% sure he is a liar.
Why would Ozzie Newsome lie? Unlike Goodell, he has nothing to gain from lying.
Goodell has humiliated himself and his supporters.
Dude, just wait. We still have the super duper secret evidence that is not public yet.
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Dude, just wait. We still have the super duper secret evidence that is not public yet.
Thanks, Hoopaloop.
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hmm
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/12009808/nfl-commissioner-roger-goodell-testimony-ray-rice-hearing
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hmm
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/12009808/nfl-commissioner-roger-goodell-testimony-ray-rice-hearing
You're just a hater - chicos assured us that Roger is a good man and would never lie. I'm not gonna let the "media" fool me into thinking different.
PS - if warriorchick reads this - it is just sarcasm ;)
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You're just a hater - chicos assured us that Roger is a good man and would never lie. I'm not gonna let the "media" fool me into thinking different.
PS - if warriorchick reads this - it is just sarcasm ;)
He can't possibly be a good man based on his waste of perfectly good pizza.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/12/10/7368439/roger-goodell-nfl-conduct-policy-ray-rice-case
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Our friend Drew Magary. Bold is the actual WSJ article.
Hey, you're Roger Goodell. You're an isolated, wealthy, powermad executive who will do anything to protect his authority and the sacred #BRAND to which he has been entrusted. Who do you go to to help give your pretty boy a thorough polishing for the American public? If you guessed the Wall Street Journal, congrats! You just won a two-week subscription to The Wall Street Journal (Retail price: $590). Yes, Goodell is rolling out his new and improved Personal Conduct Policy (now with 40% more stern letters!) and the WSJ headline "NFL's Roger Goodell Seeks to Right Past Wrongs" is all you need to know that this will be less of a thorough investigation than a red-carpet rollout for the NFL's chief job creator (and taker-awayer):
National Football League Commissioner Roger Goodell reserved a private dining room for breakfast at the exclusive Core club in Manhattan last month and invited one of the few people who might help with his problem.
Hey, what better way to say that you're in touch with your average American citizen than to reserve an entire room at a posh city club that virtually no one can afford to attend? Oh, but it gets better!
He figured the boss of 36,000 armed officers would know how to handle accusations of domestic violence in the ranks.
Yup, it's Roger Goodell again consulting with another dude about what to do about battered women. But it gets even better than that!
"Do you pull them off the job immediately? Do you impose your own code of conduct? Do you pay them during the investigation? Do you run your own investigation rather than wait for the criminal-justice system?" Mr. Goodell pressed William Bratton, the New York City police commissioner, over coffee and eggs. Mr. Goodell's deputies scribbled the answers, all yes.
I feel like maybe now is NOT the time to take self-discipline within the New York Police Department as a given, you know? I wouldn't say they are a model of restraint these days. Killing an unarmed dude? Fine. Oh but hit your wife and they really turn the screws down, I bet. And I love the added touch of Goodell having stenographers on hand to do all the listening for him. What we have here is a summit between two delusional men, reinforcing their own delusions and calling that LEARNING. And the WSJ is buying this crap!
Mr. Goodell, after months of criticism, plans to unveil a tougher personal-conduct policy at a meeting Wednesday with NFL team owners that is akin to the police-department model.
First offense: You are choked to death.
An accused player, for example, will immediately go on paid leave following formal charges or an independent investigation under the proposal that would also apply to all NFL personnel, including owners.
NOOOOOOOOOOO! No, this is the exact WRONG thing. The completely unnatural carnal knowledgeing arbitrary system you have right now is better than this. What is this? This is complete crap. No one wanted you to have MORE power.
"I blew it," Mr. Goodell told The Wall Street Journal in a series of interviews over a period of weeks this fall as the commissioner was caught flat-footed in the unfolding controversy. "Our penalties didn't fit the crimes."
No, that is not how you blew it. Everyone railed against the Ray Rice suspension because Goodell overpunished everyone else and then underpunished Rice. But now, because of that one example of underpunishment, Goodell is gonna double overpunish everyone, even people who may not have done anything. This is still Goodell's mentality: that the general public wants him to round up all these players and give them a good public spanking. It's the exact wrong direction. Imagine burning dinner fifty times in a row, and when people tell you to turn down the oven, you say, "You know what? I've messed up. I'm gonna turn this oven UP next time!" That's Goodell. He's unnatural carnal knowledgeing deaf.
Mr. Goodell said he wanted to be judged by changes made by the league in response to the Rice case and others. "I'm not trying to run away from this problem, which is a societal problem," he said. "But people hold the NFL to a high standard."
No they don't! We really don't. We expect you to be craven crapbags. Please don't try to be good. Somehow, that ends up making you more evil.
The 55-year-old Mr. Goodell, who first sent letters to the NFL about a job while a teenager, has a high profile among football fans.
You could say that.
He is often stopped for fist bumps and photos, and has his own bobblehead doll.
What the unnatural carnal knowledge?
He started at the NFL as an intern in 1982 and became commissioner in 2006. A year later, he ordered that players be held accountable for "conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in" the NFL.
He's not Batman. Are you aware that he is not Batman? Stop talking about him like he is Batman. We gotta clean up these streets.
New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, a Goodell supporter, asked him directly: Did you see that [Ray Rice] tape? "Roger looked me in the eye and said, ‘No,' " Mr. Kraft said. "I believe him."
SO WHAT?! Goodell is paid to protect Kraft. What did you think Kraft was gonna say? "Hey, that toady that works for me and covers up all of the League's more unseemly ambitions? I believe him. He has GRIT." What a shock that he would stand by his guy like that.
Late into the night on Sept. 10, executives in the NFL conference room brainstormed over ways to prove the commissioner wasn't covering up for Mr. Rice. Pizzas arrived but no slice was taken until Mr. Goodell ate. He never did, and the slices turned cold in the box.
This is unnatural carnal knowledgeing insane. Even Peter King isn't this blindly sycophantic. First of all, if there's pizza there, I want to eat it. My pretty boy boss isn't stopping me. If you order pizza for everyone and then instruct them to not eat it until you've eaten it, and then you never eat it, you are a psychopath. But the WSJ treats this as some kind of monument to determination. Let that cold pizza stand as a reminder that Roger Goodell will not rest until every last woman on Earth is saved.
NFL General Counsel Jeffrey Pash suggested an independent investigation run by former Federal Bureau of Investigation director Robert Mueller. "Call him now," Mr. Goodell said, despite the late hour.
WHAT A MAN.
As Mr. Goodell reviewed the cases with advisers, he jumped to take calls at his desk.
Jumped! Didn't just sit there and pick up the phone. No, he LEAPT at the phone. Flew toward it, like a superhero. Didn't even touch his pizza before answering.
During one, he told his twin 13-year-old daughters he wouldn't be home for dinner.
GTFO
He also took calls from owners and player representatives begging for leniency.
"Am I not merciful?!" This is so gross.
"Let me be clear," Mr. Goodell barked to one caller, "we're taking him off the field."
I assume he slapped a PR-24 into his hand while doing this. Please, Mr. Commish! Ya gotta let my boy play! Let 'em off the hook just this one time! LET YOUR REMARKABLE FORTITUDE SLIP FOR JUST AN INSTANT, SIR! Why not give him the papacy as well?
Around that time, a friend, General Electric Co. Chief Executive Jeff Immelt, told Mr. Goodell to "stop and apologize now," Mr. Immelt said. "This is fast- moving and deeply felt."
Oh hey, one pretty boy CEO congratulating another? Well, I'm sold.
As Mr. Goodell prepared for a public apology, he spoke first to his daughters, who were hearing about the controversy at school. In his family room with his wife, he explained "the whole issue" of domestic violence and "how we didn't keep our policy up to speed and we need to fix that." He told his daughters that "part of this is acknowledging your error and part of it is what you are going to do to make it right."
Good job, Dad. But when do they get ponies?
Mr. Goodell sought input from 11 former players. At a three-hour meeting on Sept. 23, former Chicago Bears star Mike Singletary slapped his hand on the NFL shield in the middle of Mr. Goodell's conference table and said: "This means excellence. If a player isn't living up to that standard, he shouldn't be part of the NFL brand."
Mike Singletary once mooned his own players in order to motivate them. So even if this story is true (I don't believe a word of it.... Gonna need verification from someone who is more sane than Mike Singletary), it means nothing. This is just another shining example of the NFL buying into its own made-up belief that it is the White Knight of America. It's a football league. Please just be a football league.
Mr. Goodell next flew to Austin, Texas, to see firsthand the National Domestic Violence Hotline. He had announced on Sept. 19 that the NFL would begin giving the group $5 million annually for five years. With the permission of one caller, Mr. Goodell listened: The woman said she was thrown down stairs while holding her toddler. She hung up after she said her husband was back.
At the hotel restaurant later, the commissioner, still shaken, ordered a glass of wine. Then he changed his mind. "I need a stiff drink," he said.
Are they coming out with a graphic novel of this? I feel like that's the next step. The graphic novel comes out, and then they make it into a movie penned by Aaron Sorkin. That drink scene... that's right up Sorkin's alley. "Gonna need scotch after hanging with staircase lady, Bob." (In Sorkin stuff, the guy always knows the name of the bartender.)
National Basketball Association Commissioner Adam Silver and Mr. Goodell compared notes over lunch at 21 Club in Manhattan. "You can learn from what we're going through," Mr. Goodell told him. A few weeks later, Mr. Silver, noting the "evolving social consensus" on domestic violence, issued a 24-game suspension of the Charlotte Hornets' Jeff Taylor, the league's harshest penalty yet for domestic violence. Mr. Taylor pleaded guilty to misdemeanor domestic-violence assault involving his then-girlfriend.
Oh, so that was all Goodell's idea! Nice job, Rog! Why don't we make you commish of everything?! You can have lunch at every fancy club with every CEO and create a personal conduct policy for all American civilians as well. There will not be a warning system. We'll jail everyone.
Mr. Goodell has also turned stricter.
NO!
Before a recent Cowboys-Giants game, the NFL commissioner strode the sidelines at MetLife Stadium in New Jersey, where he got unsolicited advice from the stands. "Bring back Ray Rice," yelled one fan. Another countered: "Stick to your guns!"
"That's what I love about football," Mr. Goodell said. "It brings out passion."
This is the worst thing I've ever read. How could you edit this and not die laughing?
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Love, love, love Drew Magary. Only writer that I know will make me laugh out loud whenever I read him.
Not just about sports, either. His Hater's Guide to the Williams Sonoma catalog has become an annual holiday classic.
http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/the-2014-haters-guide-to-the-williams-sonoma-catalog-1667452305
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Love, love, love Drew Magary. Only writer that I know will make me laugh out loud whenever I read him.
Not just about sports, either. His Hater's Guide to the Williams Sonoma catalog has become an annual holiday classic.
http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/the-2014-haters-guide-to-the-williams-sonoma-catalog-1667452305
That is amazing.
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As predicted....no evidence to support the NFL saw the video rules former head of the FBI, Mueller
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12138032/nfl-did-not-previously-see-ray-rice-elevator-video-according-mueller-report
Doesn't let them off the hook on other stuff, as the report also states.
Now, I have no doubt that there will be people that will say not possible, they're covering up, they're lying, etc. Impossible to please those people so it is what it is.
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As predicted....no evidence to support the NFL saw the video rules former head of the FBI, Mueller
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12138032/nfl-did-not-previously-see-ray-rice-elevator-video-according-mueller-report
Doesn't let them off the hook on other stuff, as the report also states.
Now, I have no doubt that there will be people that will say not possible, they're covering up, they're lying, etc. Impossible to please those people so it is what it is.
A long time ago I predicted that the NFL's own internal investigation, run by a guy with lots of close relationships to NFL execs, would find no evidence the NFL saw the video. Looks like I was right.
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From the Sports Business Daily. Thought the AP offering from Mueller was interesting
Mueller Report Finds No Evidence NFL Saw Ray Rice Tape Early
By Daniel Kaplan, Staff Writer
A long-awaited report commissioned by the NFL and conducted by former FBI Dir Robert Mueller was released this afternoon and found that no one at the NFL received the video of Ray Rice punching his wife in a casino elevator before it was revealed by TMZ on Sept. 8. The AP reported shortly after the TMZ disclosure that someone at the league called a New Jersey law enforcement official and left a voice message April 9 confirming receipt of the video. Mueller’s team went through 1,583 calls made that day from the NFL and found none that matched the description of the call in the AP report.
The report said Mueller offered the AP a chance to look at the phone numbers and match it to their alleged source, and the wire service turned it down. The AP in a statement said, “We have reviewed the report and stand by our original reporting. The Mueller team did ask us for source material and other newsgathering information, but we declined. Everything that we report and confirm goes into our stories. We do not offer up reporters’ notes and sources.” The Atlantic City Police Department also declined to participate in the investigation, Mueller wrote.
However, Mueller did not let the NFL completely off the hook. He criticized the league for relying on law enforcement proceedings to conclude before dishing out discipline, a setup the league no longer follows after the Dec. 10 unveiling of its new personal conduct policy.
Mara, Rooney: Mueller Report Shows Goodell Has Been "Forthright"
In a statement, Giants President & CEO John Mara and Steelers President Art Rooney II, who oversaw the Mueller Report, said: "This matter has tarnished the reputation of the NFL due to our failure to hand out proper punishments. It has been a wake-up call to all involved and we expect the changes that have been made will lead to improvements in how any similar issues are handled in the future. It is clear to us that Commissioner Goodell was forthright in the statements he made to the owners about this matter, and we have every confidence that Roger Goodell is the right person to lead the league as we move forward" (THE DAILY).
ESPN’s Mark Dominik said, “I've been through these investigations. I know that they’re very thorough and I am sure that they came out with the findings that are correct because these are the facts that came through.” USA Today's Jarrett Bell added, “You wonder if this will really change what you thought or what anyone at home thought about what happened.” Bell: “Goodell skates a bit on this in terms of what he said publicly.” Dominik added, “The investigator said the league office should have done a lot more. … Everybody needed to hear that and they needed to say that. The other thing that you see there is that the clubs need to do a better job of securing information so that the whole National Football League doesn't look bad” (“NFL Insiders,” ESPN, 1/8).
The Toronto Star’s Bruce Arthur tweeted, “So Robert Mueller criticizes the NFL on Rice, but doesn't find anything that actually shows a cover-up. I think that's the sweet spot.” ESPN’s Bill Simmons: “The Mueller Report chronicles a heroic 7-month effort by the NFL to desperately avoid figuring out what may have happened in the elevator.” SI’s Don Banks: “AP source is lying about having vocal confirmation of video arriving in NFL office? That's what Mueller report is in essence saying, right?”
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Geez.... did anyone really think his buddies were gonna say he was a bad guy?
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From the Sports Business Daily. Thought the AP offering from Mueller was interesting
Mueller Report Finds No Evidence NFL Saw Ray Rice Tape Early
By Daniel Kaplan, Staff Writer
A long-awaited report commissioned by the NFL and conducted by former FBI Dir Robert Mueller was released this afternoon and found that no one at the NFL received the video of Ray Rice punching his wife in a casino elevator before it was revealed by TMZ on Sept. 8. The AP reported shortly after the TMZ disclosure that someone at the league called a New Jersey law enforcement official and left a voice message April 9 confirming receipt of the video. Mueller’s team went through 1,583 calls made that day from the NFL and found none that matched the description of the call in the AP report.
The report said Mueller offered the AP a chance to look at the phone numbers and match it to their alleged source, and the wire service turned it down. The AP in a statement said, “We have reviewed the report and stand by our original reporting. The Mueller team did ask us for source material and other newsgathering information, but we declined. Everything that we report and confirm goes into our stories. We do not offer up reporters’ notes and sources.” The Atlantic City Police Department also declined to participate in the investigation, Mueller wrote.
However, Mueller did not let the NFL completely off the hook. He criticized the league for relying on law enforcement proceedings to conclude before dishing out discipline, a setup the league no longer follows after the Dec. 10 unveiling of its new personal conduct policy.
Mara, Rooney: Mueller Report Shows Goodell Has Been "Forthright"
In a statement, Giants President & CEO John Mara and Steelers President Art Rooney II, who oversaw the Mueller Report, said: "This matter has tarnished the reputation of the NFL due to our failure to hand out proper punishments. It has been a wake-up call to all involved and we expect the changes that have been made will lead to improvements in how any similar issues are handled in the future. It is clear to us that Commissioner Goodell was forthright in the statements he made to the owners about this matter, and we have every confidence that Roger Goodell is the right person to lead the league as we move forward" (THE DAILY).
ESPN’s Mark Dominik said, “I've been through these investigations. I know that they’re very thorough and I am sure that they came out with the findings that are correct because these are the facts that came through.” USA Today's Jarrett Bell added, “You wonder if this will really change what you thought or what anyone at home thought about what happened.” Bell: “Goodell skates a bit on this in terms of what he said publicly.” Dominik added, “The investigator said the league office should have done a lot more. … Everybody needed to hear that and they needed to say that. The other thing that you see there is that the clubs need to do a better job of securing information so that the whole National Football League doesn't look bad” (“NFL Insiders,” ESPN, 1/8).
The Toronto Star’s Bruce Arthur tweeted, “So Robert Mueller criticizes the NFL on Rice, but doesn't find anything that actually shows a cover-up. I think that's the sweet spot.” ESPN’s Bill Simmons: “The Mueller Report chronicles a heroic 7-month effort by the NFL to desperately avoid figuring out what may have happened in the elevator.” SI’s Don Banks: “AP source is lying about having vocal confirmation of video arriving in NFL office? That's what Mueller report is in essence saying, right?”
Translation, Mueller didn't have access to a lot of information, he dug just deep enough to make it look like he tried so that he could exonerate his buddies. ESPN and others rallied the news trucks to make it look like the NFL is the good guy.
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The essence of the NFL's defense, as summarized by Mueller:
"Hey, we aren't evil. We are just grossly incompetent."
And the owners are OK with that.
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All I ask.... If the law ever catches up to me, I want to be able to name three of my friends to do the investigation.
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A long time ago I predicted that the NFL's own internal investigation, run by a guy with lots of close relationships to NFL execs, would find no evidence the NFL saw the video. Looks like I was right.
Like I said, some people will be impossible to please. Mueller has a solid reputation as former head of the FBI, etc. It wasn't an internal investigation done by NFL employees. Are there ties between Mueller and the NFL....absolutely. Does that mean he can't be impartial? Absolutely not. There will always be doubters. Some folks want a result and any investigation that doesn't deliver a result, well it must be tainted
I am curious why the AP didn't want to at least look at the phone records just for their own giggles to confirm things. I guess sometimes it's easier for a news source to critique others, but may not be so willing to look under their own hood....just to confirm things were ok.
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I am curious why the AP didn't want to at least look at the phone records just for their own giggles to confirm things. I guess sometimes it's easier for a news source to critique others, but may not be so willing to look under their own hood....just to confirm things were ok.
You're seriously asking why a news organization doesn't want to share sourcing information with an entity it covers?
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http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/08/nfl-roger-goodell-ray-rice-robert-mueller-report
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http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/08/nfl-roger-goodell-ray-rice-robert-mueller-report
I think there is only one among us who believes Goodell told the truth.
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http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/08/nfl-roger-goodell-ray-rice-robert-mueller-report
Exactly right. Just because they didn't have the video, that doesn't negate the fact that Rice told them what was on the video from the beginning.
The rest of this stuff is just covering up his incompetence.
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Exactly right. Just because they didn't have the video, that doesn't negate the fact that Rice told them what was on the video from the beginning.
The rest of this stuff is just covering up his incompetence.
Keep in mind... most of these NFL execs: lawyers by trade (or education). They are quite skilled in the art of crafting words so as to create the appearance of whatever "truth" they wish to tell, otherwise known colloquially as "bullsh|t artists."