Todd Mayo is no longer with Marquette!

[jsglow]

You guys are amazing.  You all must have been smarter than me as I attended in the same era as many of you and actually went to class..... every time, every day.

As to today, attendance is taken by most professors and Marquette is far more academically rigorous.  To earn solid grades, one needs to work quite hard.  Those that don't truly struggle, regardless of major.

[keefe]

He wasn't "pointed to the door."  I think people just got tired of him.

I once had a guy who worked for me who was a real high performer.  But he was a challenge to manage.  He wanted things done his way all of the time, didn't get along great with his coworkers, etc.  But his work product was stellar.  For a time I was worried that if we lost him, we would be in serious trouble.

Well after a couple of years of this, the demands and the drama just wore on me and the rest of the staff.  I stopped trying to make him happy.  I stopped listening to him complain.  He ended up leaving and we are just fine.  I should have done it earlier.

I think that is pretty much what happened with Buzz and Marquette.

No, it's not. Bert left Marquette because of the inferior conference that is the Big East, its pathetic media deal, and an overall disgust with the utter lack of support from the Marquette leadership. How dare you suggest otherwise.

[wadesworld]

I wouldn't think for a second to form opinions on someone playing the baritone - something I know virtually nothing about...as I've never played it.  Same with piano players.  Yes, I can recognize some play beautifully, but since I've never played either, I can't really comment on the nuances.  

And for what it is worth, I played a ton with all the guys on the team back in my day in the offseason, along with some Milwaukee Bucks, coached at all of MU's basketball camps while Mike Deane was there, as I always balled with Mike Rice and the guys on the team - and they knew I wasn't a stiff  - which is why they had me coaching at their camps.  No, it doesn't make me a D-1 college ballplayer, but it does give one a little better understanding of the game than one who hasn't played it a ton.

That said it doesn't mean you or the others don't make good points at times, nor does it mean you don't add value here - you guys do.  As you know I just refuse to believe Buzz did a good job last year, nor do I believe he truly was doing his best to win games.

I have never laughed so hard because of MUScoop, and there have been some truly great laughs as a result of some posts on here. Thank you, Ners. You are the best. If I ever run into you (I'd say GM of the Bucks would be a good starting point, NBA Comissioner shortly after, so I'll keep my eyes open), please allow me to now down to you and kiss your feet. Thank you.

[Warrior Code]

No, it's not. Bert left Marquette because of the inferior conference that is the Big East, its pathetic media deal, and an overall disgust with the utter lack of support from the Marquette leadership. How dare you suggest otherwise.

This. Marquette is basically no different than MATC at this point. Virginia Tech is on a meteoric rise. End of discussion.

[HutchwasClutch]

I have never laughed so hard because of MUScoop, and there have been some truly great laughs as a result of some posts on here. Thank you, Ners. You are the best. If I ever run into you (I'd say GM of the Bucks would be a good starting point, NBA Comissioner shortly after, so I'll keep my eyes open), please allow me to now down to you and kiss your feet. Thank you.

I was surprised this thread was still going strong, so I had to look at what the last posts have been, and wow, this thread really needs to get put down quickly, it's getting more than creepy.

[wadesworld]

Any y'all remove the center pages from those blue books to make 'em look like you actually "filled" the entire book?

Haha! Awesome

[wadesworld]

I was surprised this thread was still going strong, so I had to look at what the last posts have been, and wow, this thread really needs to get put down quickly, it's getting more than creepy.

How could we not discuss how awesome Ners is? I mean, he "balled" (haha, I remember when that was cool to say...my junior year in high school) with the MU players (because who hasn't if you've ever played pickup basketball at the Rec between the end of the basketball season and the end of the school year? But yeah, it's just Ners). And because he was hand selected to join the high level coaches that coach the MU camps (because they don't take anybody who is willing to help out. Oh wait, they do. The actual D1 coaches and the players do the actual coaching, while guys like Ners who beg to be a part of it get to babysit. Having worked at the Rec Center during my time at MU, I've seen Ners many, many times, wearing the way-to-baggy gym shorts, the shirt that is way too big because all that was left was XXLs by the time they got to pick theirs and having a role of keeping the line of 20 4th grade boys straight while walking from the Rec Center to get lunch).

[HutchwasClutch]

How could we not discuss how awesome Ners is? I mean, he "balled" (haha, I remember when that was cool to say...my junior year in high school) with the MU players (because who hasn't if you've ever played pickup basketball at the Rec between the end of the basketball season and the end of the school year? But yeah, it's just Ners). And because he was hand selected to join the high level coaches that coach the MU camps (because they don't take anybody who is willing to help out. Oh wait, they do. The actual D1 coaches and the players do the actual coaching, while guys like Ners who beg to be a part of it get to babysit. Having worked at the Rec Center during my time at MU, I've seen Ners many, many times, wearing the way-to-baggy gym shorts, the shirt that is way too big because all that was left was XXLs by the time they got to pick theirs and having a role of keeping the line of 20 4th grade boys straight while walking from the Rec Center to get lunch).

OK, get it now, your previous post was sarcasm. 

[NersEllenson]

How could we not discuss how awesome Ners is? I mean, he "balled" (haha, I remember when that was cool to say...my junior year in high school) with the MU players (because who hasn't if you've ever played pickup basketball at the Rec between the end of the basketball season and the end of the school year? But yeah, it's just Ners). And because he was hand selected to join the high level coaches that coach the MU camps (because they don't take anybody who is willing to help out. Oh wait, they do. The actual D1 coaches and the players do the actual coaching, while guys like Ners who beg to be a part of it get to babysit. Having worked at the Rec Center during my time at MU, I've seen Ners many, many times, wearing the way-to-baggy gym shorts, the shirt that is way too big because all that was left was XXLs by the time they got to pick theirs and having a role of keeping the line of 20 4th grade boys straight while walking from the Rec Center to get lunch).

Wow - You sir are a creep.  You simply make up lies.  You don't know me..never saw me at the Rec...considering you are roughly 13 years younger than me...and regarding my role during the MU camps - well - just a flat out lie.

Pathetic.  Just as your basketball analysis is.  Really kind of sad that you can't let it go.  Just because you were wrong all of last season on your takes on the team and what was going on - resorting to making up lies and such is really bottom of the barrel. 

[wadesworld]

Wow - You sir are a creep.  You simply make up lies.  You don't know me..never saw me at the Rec...considering you are roughly 13 years younger than me...and regarding my role during the MU camps - well - just a flat out lie.

Pathetic.  Just as your basketball analysis is.  Really kind of sad that you can't let it go.  Just because you were wrong all of last season on your takes on the team and what was going on - resorting to making up lies and such is really bottom of the barrel.  

Haha I didn't mean I actually saw you, I meant I saw the person in your role.

Speaking of bottom of the barrel. Look at the post you made that this came from. Absolutely freaking hilarious. And talking about my lack of good basketball analysis, all anybody needs to know about yours is that you actually think a D1 coach intentionally threw a season just to piss off a fan base. You can disagree with who he played (I tend to think the guy getting paid $2+ million to do that job and sees those players every day in practice may know more than a guy who once helped babysit 12 year olds at an MU camp, but that's just me), but to think a head coach would throw a season, even if you knew he was planning on leaving after the season, is absolutely hilarious. That's smart. I can just imagine the interview at VT. "So Buzz, it's been said you didn't like that alumni who have no clue how to coach basketball questioned who you were playing, so you just threw the season to piss them off. Any truth to this, or what explains your 17-15 record last year?" Bert: "Yes, they thought they knew more than me and wouldn't let me recruit anyone I wanted regardless of academics or character issues, so I just played the worst players I could." VT AD: "Perfect. You are just the guy we're looking for."

Intentionally losing games when you know you're on your way out is just the perfect plan. Because a coach who went 17-15 with no post season appearance is more attractive of a candidate than a guy who worked to win every game and maybe snuck into the NCAA. Makes sense. Had Texas had a bad season like expected I bet Buzz would've been ecstatic with VT if the UT job had opened up. The 17-15 record would've insured that happened.

But hey, we're all entitled to an opinion and you "balled" with some D1 guys.

OK, get it now, your previous post was sarcasm.  

Just a little bit.

[wadesworld]

And the last thing I'll say is you keep bringing up how "anybody who has played high level basketball knows you can't perform when all you get is 2-3 minute stints at a time." The fact of the matter is there are TV timeouts every 4 minutes and there are substitutions within those 4 minutes, there are a ton of stoppages for free throws with the new emphases, and each team gets 6 timeouts per game (12 total). In a 40 minute game you have 20 timeouts total. That averages every...you guessed it...2 minutes! And then you factor in maybe 20? Trips to the free throw line on average (40 total free throws between the 2 teams, and I'd say that's a low estimate) and that's another extended delay. The fact of the matter is you will never find 5 minute stints of uninterrupted basketball in college or the NBA. If you can't be productive in 2 minute stints you can't be productive in the game period.

[NersEllenson]

And the last thing I'll say is you keep bringing up how "anybody who has played high level basketball knows you can't perform when all you get is 2-3 minute stints at a time." The fact of the matter is there are TV timeouts every 4 minutes and there are substitutions within those 4 minutes, there are a ton of stoppages for free throws with the new emphases, and each team gets 6 timeouts per game (12 total). In a 40 minute game you have 20 timeouts total. That averages every...you guessed it...2 minutes! And then you factor in maybe 20? Trips to the free throw line on average (40 total free throws between the 2 teams, and I'd say that's a low estimate) and that's another extended delay. The fact of the matter is you will never find 5 minute stints of uninterrupted basketball in college or the NBA. If you can't be productive in 2 minute stints you can't be productive in the game period.

You don't have a clue Wades.  I'll leave it at that.  I have zero doubt you've never played the game at a level beyond 5th grade.

It's about getting into a flow..breaking sweat...getting the rhythm of the game.  Todd Mayo is all the evidence I need to support what I'm saying - how he played the last 10 games of the season.  He was capable of that all year - yet it was the FIRST time in his MU career Buzz let him play through mistakes, and let him get 8 - 10 segments of playing time..game after game after game. 

And no sh$t there are TV timeouts every 4 minutes and stoppages for FT's - that doesn't make you lose your flow, sweat, rhythm of playing with teammates.  But you obviously can't understand that because you haven't played the game at a decent level.

You can think Buzz coached well last year, but he was awful.  The hyper manic substitutions you saw were ridiculous...and there is a reason you don't see other coaches do that.  Does Bo Ryan EVER sub 4 guys at a time, roll out 10 different players in a 3 minute stretch?  17-15 missing the NIT is evidence enough, especially when your peers - guys who are head coaches at the other Big East schools - predict you to win your conference.  Limping to a 9-9 finish with 2 wins over Top 50 teams all year is awful.

In the event you do play just a little, next time you hoop, yank yourself out every two minutes, and see what you accomplish. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Ners, you avoided my question.

Is this how you view the value of opinions about gameplay on scoop?

Former college basketball players
Yourself (and anyone else who played high school ball and pick up games with the basketball team)
Everyone Else

I feel like you have been politely dancing around it. I just want to make sure I understand where I fall in the rank order system.

[TheBurrEffect]

And the last thing I'll say is you keep bringing up how "anybody who has played high level basketball knows you can't perform when all you get is 2-3 minute stints at a time." The fact of the matter is there are TV timeouts every 4 minutes and there are substitutions within those 4 minutes, there are a ton of stoppages for free throws with the new emphases, and each team gets 6 timeouts per game (12 total). In a 40 minute game you have 20 timeouts total. That averages every...you guessed it...2 minutes! And then you factor in maybe 20? Trips to the free throw line on average (40 total free throws between the 2 teams, and I'd say that's a low estimate) and that's another extended delay. The fact of the matter is you will never find 5 minute stints of uninterrupted basketball in college or the NBA. If you can't be productive in 2 minute stints you can't be productive in the game period.

Though I agree with most of what you said about ners. I've played in gyms with this kid's like him, they would suck my dick. The above statement is 100% incorrect. There is a huge difference of being subbed out after 2 minutes due to a mistake or rotation and taking a 30 second break on a freethrow line or timeout.

[real chili 83]

In before the lock.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Ners, you avoided my question.

Is this how you view the value of opinions about gameplay on scoop?

Former college basketball players
Yourself (and anyone else who played high school ball and pick up games with the basketball team)
Everyone Else

I feel like you have been politely dancing around it. I just want to make sure I understand where I fall in the rank order system.

I really don't think it matters if you played college basketball or even high school basketball for that matter. There are many examples of very successful college coaches, NBA coaches, and NBA GM's who have never played college basketball. Just because you didn't play, doesn't mean you can't have a very high understanding and knowledge of the game.

[NersEllenson]

Ners, you avoided my question.

Is this how you view the value of opinions about gameplay on scoop?

Former college basketball players
Yourself (and anyone else who played high school ball and pick up games with the basketball team)
Everyone Else

I feel like you have been politely dancing around it. I just want to make sure I understand where I fall in the rank order system.

Yes - that is how I view opinions generally speaking.  It is usual evident who has played the game at the high school level or above, based on their take.  As I said, doesn't mean those of you who haven't played the game don't make good points too.  But, like I also said, I'd never critique a piano player, baritone player, or any other player of an instrument as to what they could do better, or what the conductor of the band could do better to make them perform better - as I have no real experience playing those instruments, or being a band member.

Yes, you see cases in basketball (more common in baseball) where the player personnel guys are not former players - yet why do you think most college and pro basketball teams have former players as head coaches?  Same in baseball, hockey and football. 

Would you really have a great deal of respect for my takes on how the MU band could improve?  What the conductor has been doing right/wrong? 

[GGGG]

Yes, you see cases in basketball (more common in baseball) where the player personnel guys are not former players - yet why do you think most college and pro basketball teams have former players as head coaches?  Same in baseball, hockey and football.

1. Lower barrier to entry.  (ie lots of connections)
2. Inherent interest in the profession
3. Basketball acumen
4. Understanding of the team dynamics

However I will say that there is a world of difference between being a former high school basketball player and understanding how to employ strategy at the collegiate level.  Especially when those two experiences are separated by 20 years.  Enough to make the experience basically worthless.

[NersEllenson]

Though I agree with most of what you said about ners. I've played in gyms with this kid's like him, they would suck my dick. The above statement is 100% incorrect. There is a huge difference of being subbed out after 2 minutes due to a mistake or rotation and taking a 30 second break on a freethrow line or timeout.

Odd you say this, as a review of your post history shows we are on the same page about a lot of topics.  And as you know, Wades never saw me at the Rec, has no idea - was just a silly lie to try to discredit me.  As for being a kid...I wish I was your age..23 or 24 would be great.  Being 40, you lose a few steps.  Although at 6'2" and 40 I can still dunk a basketball...doubt I'd be doing any of what you suggest if we were to play....even at this age.  

[MU82]

You guys are amazing.  You all must have been smarter than me as I attended in the same era as many of you and actually went to class..... every time, every day.

As to today, attendance is taken by most professors and Marquette is far more academically rigorous.  To earn solid grades, one needs to work quite hard.  Those that don't truly struggle, regardless of major.

I have little doubt that were I to attend MU (or any other good school) today, I either would have to be more studious and accountable or I would fail miserably. I think I could have made the adjustment, but maybe not. I'll never know and the good thing is it doesn't matter now!

One of the things I liked most about being a Journalism major is that most of the classes I took within my major did not involve final exams. Of course, I did have to take a lot of required classes that all gave finals: 5 philosophies, 3 theologies, 2 yrs foreign language, etc. Somehow I survived those, mostly because I was very good at reading the books, outlining the important stuff and studying the outlines. While I got mostly A's in journalism stuff, I got C's or B's in the rest, and that was fine with me - and, more importantly, fine with my parents. I finished with a 2.8-something, and that was fine. It didn't stop my future employer from hiring me.

While some of my classmates were getting 3.8s or higher, I was working at the Tribune, the Journal magazine, the Milwaukee newspapers, AP, anybody that would let me write for them. When it came time to apply for jobs, I had real experience, not just good grades.

I'm guessing that real-world experience STILL gives a graduate a leg up on his/her competition, regardless of profession. I know I'd hire a talented, proven candidate with a 2.9 over a book-smart neophyte with a 3.9. But maybe that's just me.

One of my best friends had this schedule second semester freshman year: Wake up at 9 a.m.; go to classes from 10-4; study and homework from 4-6; dinner from 6-7; study and homework from 7-9 (rec center if no additional study had been necessary); smoke a $hitload of pot and drink like a fish from 9pm-2am; sleep from 2-9; lather, rinse, repeat. Got higher than a kite at least 5 nights a week. Graduated with a 4.0, went to grad school, ridiculously rich today.

It's the oldest cliche ever, but college definitely is what one puts into it.

[NersEllenson]

1. Lower barrier to entry.  (ie lots of connections)
2. Inherent interest in the profession
3. Basketball acumen
4. Understanding of the team dynamics

However I will say that there is a world of difference between being a former high school basketball player and understanding how to employ strategy at the collegiate level.  Especially when those two experiences are separated by 20 years.  Enough to make the experience basically worthless.

I can agree with your points 1-4 above..yes....doesn't change the fact that it is the reality.  Did you not notice how many of the MU players have said they are so glad the new coaching staff all has lots of playing experience at this level and beyond?

I also agree that there is a vast difference between 5A High school ball, or Division 1 in WI, and High Major ball...it's not even in the same area code.  Yet, general basketball principles are in play at the high school level, that carry into the college level, not so much the pro level where you have a lot of isolation sets.  College ball remains very much a team game.

At the end of the day, this whole crapstorm between me and a few of you others this past season was all about the coaching employed by Buzz.  He was awful.  ANYONE who has played the game at even the high school level could recognize that.  You simply don't hyper manic sub people the way he did.  Why I feel he was being stubborn..and essentially not doing what was in the best interest of the team to win:  The only two guys he was consistent with, and gave consistent playing time to, where the two most limited (and criticized) guys on the team.  It defies explanation how those two guys got more minutes than any other guys on the team.

And as I challenged you, find me 1 other guy in the last 20 years who has posted stats like Derrick - and Jake for that matter with 9 made 2 pt FGs for a 32 game season playing over 900 minutes.  It was the most limited back court combination played perhaps in the history of high major ball.  And, it didn't have to be that way.

I mean this starting lineup??  Derrick, Jake, Juan, Jamil, Otule??  Please. With Gardner, Mayo, Burton, JJJ, Taylor, Dawson all sitting on the bench??

[Jay Bee]

And as I challenged you, find me 1 other guy in the last 20 years who has posted stats like Derrick - and Jake for that matter with 9 made 2 pt FGs for a 32 game season playing over 900 minutes.  

Wasn't a challenge to me, but since I take issue with people loosely throwing out numbers and stats when there is no reasonable basis to do so...

Look no further than conference-mate Creighton.

This season Ethan Wragge made 2 two-point field goals in 946 minutes.
Jump back to McDermott's freshman year.. senior Kaleb Korver.. 9 two-point field goals in 1,090 minutes. Korver averaged 4.3 ppg in 28 mpg. ORtg of 100 with a usage of 11%

Jake? 7.9 ppg in 30 mpg. 108 ORtg with usage of 13%.

[GGGG]

At the end of the day, this whole crapstorm between me and a few of you others this past season was all about the coaching employed by Buzz.  He was awful.  ANYONE who has played the game at even the high school level could recognize that.  You simply don't hyper manic sub people the way he did.  Why I feel he was being stubborn..and essentially not doing what was in the best interest of the team to win:  The only two guys he was consistent with, and gave consistent playing time to, where the two most limited (and criticized) guys on the team.  It defies explanation how those two guys got more minutes than any other guys on the team.

1. Buzz did the same things last year that he did previously and that made him successful.  And the whole coaching staff with playing experience thing doesn't mean a lot to me, because prior to last season, I never heard that being expressed as a negative by anyone.  In fact the whole story as to how he got into coaching to begin with was treated as one of his good stories.  Now it's a negative?  Monday morning quarterbacking.

2. It doesn't "defy explanation."  The explanations have been made repeatedly.  Just because you don't agree with the conclusions, doesn't mean he was subborn or coaching not to win.  It just means that you didn't agree with the strategies he used.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.

[NersEllenson]

Wasn't a challenge to me, but since I take issue with people loosely throwing out numbers and stats when there is no reasonable basis to do so...

Look no further than conference-mate Creighton.

This season Ethan Wragge made 2 two-point field goals in 946 minutes.
Jump back to McDermott's freshman year.. senior Kaleb Korver.. 9 two-point field goals in 1,090 minutes. Korver averaged 4.3 ppg in 28 mpg. ORtg of 100 with a usage of 11%

Jake? 7.9 ppg in 30 mpg. 108 ORtg with usage of 13%.

Nice find JayBee - Well...the 3 point shooting greatly skews a players ORating...

Wragge?  10.4ppg in 27mpg.  132 ORtg with usage of 14.2%  Shot 47% from 3 point land. 

Jake was serviceable - yet not a 30 mpg player.  Not when Mayo only got 23.

The bigger issue was the combination of Derrick and Jake for max minutes.  Will you be finding me an example of a player who played more minutes than Derrick at the Guard position who made less than 1, 3pt shot on less than 7% shooting, combined with 43% FT shooting?  Good luck.

The pairing was awful. One guy can't make a 3, to save his life, the other guy can't make a 2 to save his life, and those are your max minute guards.

[NersEllenson]

1. Buzz did the same things last year that he did previously and that made him successful.  And the whole coaching staff with playing experience thing doesn't mean a lot to me, because prior to last season, I never heard that being expressed as a negative by anyone.  In fact the whole story as to how he got into coaching to begin with was treated as one of his good stories.  Now it's a negative?  Monday morning quarterbacking.

2. It doesn't "defy explanation."  The explanations have been made repeatedly.  Just because you don't agree with the conclusions, doesn't mean he was subborn or coaching not to win.  It just means that you didn't agree with the strategies he used.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.

1) Buzz did not coach the same last season as the previous years - he wasn't nearly as manic in his substitutions across 3 to 4 positions on the floor.  Prior he did a little of the offense/defense thing with Otule and Gardner, but nothing like what we saw at the other positions last year.  Plus, for the first time he had to resort to using color coded pieces of construction paper to communicate defense.  Perhaps part of the problem with the team grasping defensive concepts was the constant yanking in and out - wait, who do I have?  Who do you have?  Etc.  My Monday morning quarterbacking started in late November...as I could clearly see it wasn't going to work.  You, on the other hand argued all year long, Buzz knows what he is doing, his teams get better, blah, blah, blah.  And we both know you damn well didn't think at the beginning of the year that team would MISS THE NIT.

2)  I'm still waiting for you to explain to me how you contend Mayo was late to practice MULTIPLE times, yet only suspended for arguably the biggest game of the year at WI?  I also explained that Dawson's O-Rating in games he played more than 13 minutes - 6 games was 97.5 (better than Derrick's btw)...and in the 5 games he played less than 13 it was 78.  Also said Pomroy doesn't assign an ORating for games where a player plays less than 10 minutes as it is statistically irrelevant.

Also, would you explain to me why a coach would start a lineup of Derrick, Jake, Juan, Jamil, and Otule - when he has Gardner, Mayo, Burton, JJJ, Dawson, Steve Taylor all on the bench??

Hmm...don't recall Buzz not starting his leading 2 of his 3 leading scorers in previous seasons. 

Last question for you:  Do you really believe Buzz turned in a good coaching performance last season?  And if so, why?  If not, why?