NBA Summer League

[Freeport Warrior]

Now...it's been 5 years since he's been in the league.

Really, all that needs to be said.

Take off the homer glasses. Blair is, and has been, a "better" player in every sense of the word. It's not even close.

[Avenue Commons]

Really, all that needs to be said.

Take off the homer glasses. Blair is, and has been, a "better" player in every sense of the word. It's not even close.

Dajuan Blair was a monster in college. Only reason he slipped low in the draft was because of his knees.

He is a totally different category of player than Davante, and I love Davante.

[NersEllenson]

Really, all that needs to be said.

Take off the homer glasses. Blair is, and has been, a "better" player in every sense of the word. It's not even close.

Dajuan Blair was a monster in college. Only reason he slipped low in the draft was because of his knees.

He is a totally different category of player than Davante, and I love Davante.

Okay...hard to argue against your points...in that Blair does have 5 years in the NBA...and Davante will struggle to make it.  I was comparing their college production...as sophomores...the numbers were pretty darn close...other than Blair getting 200 more minutes...you look at things from a per minute played basis...and all of the number other than rebounding...are in Davante's favor...when looked at head to head as sophomores in college with Blair...

Blair I'll concede is a better overall athlete in that he's a little quicker and can jump better than Davante....but Davante also has about 30 pounds on Blair that work to Davante's benefit offensively as far as creating space/scoring.

You guys want to offer 7 or 10-1 odds Gardner wont' make the NBA ever...I'll take your odds...PM me..if interested..

[wadesworld]

Okay...hard to argue against your points...in that Blair does have 5 years in the NBA...and Davante will struggle to make it.  I was comparing their college production...as sophomores...the numbers were pretty darn close...other than Blair getting 200 more minutes...you look at things from a per minute played basis...and all of the number other than rebounding...are in Davante's favor...when looked at head to head as sophomores in college with Blair...

Blair I'll concede is a better overall athlete in that he's a little quicker and can jump better than Davante....but Davante also has about 30 pounds on Blair that work to Davante's benefit offensively as far as creating space/scoring.

You guys want to offer 7 or 10-1 odds Gardner wont' make the NBA ever...I'll take your odds...PM me..if interested..

So Blair shouldn't be credited at all for being in condition to play an extra 6 minutes/game?  Isn't that part of the game of basketball, being conditioned?  Someone who can only play 25 minutes per game is not as good/valuable as someone who can play 31 minutes per game if their stats per 40 minutes are equal, because the guy who can play more minutes is producing more overall and producing for a longer time.  Otherwise Greg Oden shouldn't be considered a bust, he gets a dunk about every 45 seconds for his career.  It's not his fault he's never on the court, is it?

[NersEllenson]

So Blair shouldn't be credited at all for being in condition to play an extra 6 minutes/game?  Isn't that part of the game of basketball, being conditioned?  Someone who can only play 25 minutes per game is not as good/valuable as someone who can play 31 minutes per game if their stats per 40 minutes are equal, because the guy who can play more minutes is producing more overall and producing for a longer time.  Otherwise Greg Oden shouldn't be considered a bust, he gets a dunk about every 45 seconds for his career.  It's not his fault he's never on the court, is it?

Gardner could have played 6 more minutes a game as a sophomore - it would have been just fine.  Just like he could have played 30 minutes a game last season...but Buzz chose not to.  It was discussed in length here about what Gardner's ORatings were in games he played more than 30 minutes versus those he played less - and as I recall his O-Rating was better in the games he played more than 30, than those he didn't....but then those of you who just disagree to disagree..then grasp at the next straws and try to find other arguments to support your false position...and then I think it became..well in games Gardner played back to back 30+minutes his O Rating was less...he needed more time to recover, etc...and that wasn't exactly true either.

I'll concede Blair was a better rebounder at the college level than was Gardner, and a little more athletic - but beyond that - they are very similar players.  Blair has made it in the NBA..so clearly he's better than Davante...and some of you don't think Davante stands a snowballs chance in hell in making an NBA team ever...I simply feel that he has a 10-30% chance of making a team one day.  Which is why I'd take 10-1, or 7-1 betting odds...

[Nevada233]

I see Vander Blue out there taking a bunch of "Im going for mine" Shots..... Today for the Spurs Summer League team...

[brandx]

Gardner could have played 6 more minutes a game as a sophomore - it would have been just fine.  Just like he could have played 30 minutes a game last season...but Buzz chose not to.  It was discussed in length here about what Gardner's ORatings were in games he played more than 30 minutes versus those he played less - and as I recall his O-Rating was better in the games he played more than 30, than those he didn't....but then those of you who just disagree to disagree..then grasp at the next straws and try to find other arguments to support your false position...and then I think it became..well in games Gardner played back to back 30+minutes his O Rating was less...he needed more time to recover, etc...and that wasn't exactly true either.

I'll concede Blair was a better rebounder at the college level than was Gardner, and a little more athletic - but beyond that - they are very similar players.  Blair has made it in the NBA..so clearly he's better than Davante...and some of you don't think Davante stands a snowballs chance in hell in making an NBA team ever...I simply feel that he has a 10-30% chance of making a team one day.  Which is why I'd take 10-1, or 7-1 betting odds...

Of course that would be a great bet - anyone would be a sucker to take it. There are a hundred guys you never heard of that had 10-day contracts in the NBA and nothing more. If Davante makes it, that is what it will be.

Now offer a bet that Davante will be in the NBA for a full season with those same odds and you wouldn't be able to cover the losses.

[4everwarriors]

I see Vander Blue out there taking a bunch of "Im going for mine" Shots..... Today for the Spurs Summer League team...

Cat was no where to be seen at crunch time, hey?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

when looked at head to head as sophomores in college with Blair...

Let's do that.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2011-2012&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

Physical stats
DB: 6"7, 265, 19 years old, more atheltic
DG: 6"8, 290, 19 years old, less athletic

Minutes Per Game:
DB: 27.2
DG: 19.1

Points Per 40:
DB: 23.1
DG: 19.8

Offensive Rating:
DB: 127.3
DG: 118.4

FG Pct:
DB: 59.3%
DG: 56.1%

Effective FG Pct:
DB: 59.3%
DG: 56%

FT Pct:
DB: 60.5%
DG: 75.5%

Free Throw Rate:
DB: 42.5
DG: 67.5

Rebounds per 40:
DB: 18.2
DG: 10.9

Rebounding Pct:
DB: 23.7% (o) 27.7% (d)
DG: 15.7% (o) 14.9% (o)

Assists per 40:
DB: 1.8
DG: 1.5

A/TO Ratio:
DB: 1.0
DG: 0.6

Steals per 40:
DB: 2.3
DG: 1.6

Steal Pct:
DB: 3.3
DG: 2.3

Blocks per 40:
DB: 1.4
DG: 0.4

Block Pct:
DB: 3.8%
DG: 0.9%

Turnovers per 40:
DB: 1.8
DG: 2.6

Turnover Pct:
DB: 10.6%
DG: 15.7%

Fouls per 40:
DB: 4.0
DG: 5.4

I love me some Davante Gardner. But Blair destroys him. You can say they have similar builds and similar styles of play, but Blair was and always will be the better college sophomore.

Is the debate over now?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Gardner could have played 6 more minutes a game as a sophomore - it would have been just fine.  Just like he could have played 30 minutes a game last season...but Buzz chose not to.  It was discussed in length here about what Gardner's ORatings were in games he played more than 30 minutes versus those he played less - and as I recall his O-Rating was better in the games he played more than 30, than those he didn't....but then those of you who just disagree to disagree..then grasp at the next straws and try to find other arguments to support your false position...and then I think it became..well in games Gardner played back to back 30+minutes his O Rating was less...he needed more time to recover, etc...and that wasn't exactly true either.

I could maybe accept the argument for Davante playing 30 minutes a game as a senior. But not as a sophomore. Davante was about 30 pounds heavier and had much less conditioning. Do you remember watching him try to get back on defense when he was an underclassman?

You've brought up Davante needing 30 minutes a game last season a couple of times. Do you know how few of teams have their starting center on the court for 30 or more minutes a game? It's a vast minority. And do you know how many of those teams that did have their starting center averaging 30 minutes a game or more had a center that is 290 lbs or heavier? The answer is zero. I'm not saying that Davante couldn't have done it. I definitely agree that Davante could go over 30 minutes from time to time and still be effective. But it seems that conventional wisdom suggests that consistently playing a center for 30+ minutes a game is not a wise strategy.

[We R Final Four]

I see Vander Blue out there taking a bunch of "Im going for mine" Shots..... Today for the Spurs Summer League team...

Isn't that what summer league is?
VB is on the outside looking in, so his best chance to get noticed is to go 7/8 from the field......and catch some GM's eye.

[brandx]

Let's do that.



Physical stats
DB: 6"7, 265, 19 years old, more atheltic
DG: 6"8, 290, 19 years old, less athletic

Blair measured 6'5.25" inches at combine - further demonstrating how superior he is to Davante playing close to the basket.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I see Vander Blue out there taking a bunch of "Im going for mine" Shots..... Today for the Spurs Summer League team...

You mean the game where he went 2-4 from the field and 5-7 from the line? Yeah, he went nuts...

[MU82]

Let's do that.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2011-2012&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

Physical stats
DB: 6"7, 265, 19 years old, more atheltic
DG: 6"8, 290, 19 years old, less athletic

Minutes Per Game:
DB: 27.2
DG: 19.1

Points Per 40:
DB: 23.1
DG: 19.8

Offensive Rating:
DB: 127.3
DG: 118.4

FG Pct:
DB: 59.3%
DG: 56.1%

Effective FG Pct:
DB: 59.3%
DG: 56%

FT Pct:
DB: 60.5%
DG: 75.5%

Free Throw Rate:
DB: 42.5
DG: 67.5

Rebounds per 40:
DB: 18.2
DG: 10.9

Rebounding Pct:
DB: 23.7% (o) 27.7% (d)
DG: 15.7% (o) 14.9% (o)

Assists per 40:
DB: 1.8
DG: 1.5

A/TO Ratio:
DB: 1.0
DG: 0.6

Steals per 40:
DB: 2.3
DG: 1.6

Steal Pct:
DB: 3.3
DG: 2.3

Blocks per 40:
DB: 1.4
DG: 0.4

Block Pct:
DB: 3.8%
DG: 0.9%

Turnovers per 40:
DB: 1.8
DG: 2.6

Turnover Pct:
DB: 10.6%
DG: 15.7%

Fouls per 40:
DB: 4.0
DG: 5.4

I love me some Davante Gardner. But Blair destroys him. You can say they have similar builds and similar styles of play, but Blair was and always will be the better college sophomore.

Is the debate over now?

Oh, TAMU ... you and your pesky stats and facts and stuff.

No! Davante is the greatest player ever!!! So there!

[NersEllenson]

Let's do that.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2011-2012&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

Physical stats
DB: 6"7, 265, 19 years old, more atheltic
DG: 6"8, 290, 19 years old, less athletic

Minutes Per Game:
DB: 27.2
DG: 19.1

Points Per 40:
DB: 23.1
DG: 19.8

Offensive Rating:
DB: 127.3
DG: 118.4

FG Pct:
DB: 59.3%
DG: 56.1%

Effective FG Pct:
DB: 59.3%
DG: 56%

FT Pct:
DB: 60.5%
DG: 75.5%

Free Throw Rate:
DB: 42.5
DG: 67.5

Rebounds per 40:
DB: 18.2
DG: 10.9

Rebounding Pct:
DB: 23.7% (o) 27.7% (d)
DG: 15.7% (o) 14.9% (o)

Assists per 40:
DB: 1.8
DG: 1.5

A/TO Ratio:
DB: 1.0
DG: 0.6

Steals per 40:
DB: 2.3
DG: 1.6

Steal Pct:
DB: 3.3
DG: 2.3

Blocks per 40:
DB: 1.4
DG: 0.4

Block Pct:
DB: 3.8%
DG: 0.9%

Turnovers per 40:
DB: 1.8
DG: 2.6

Turnover Pct:
DB: 10.6%
DG: 15.7%

Fouls per 40:
DB: 4.0
DG: 5.4

I love me some Davante Gardner. But Blair destroys him. You can say they have similar builds and similar styles of play, but Blair was and always will be the better college sophomore.

Is the debate over now?

Good stuff...and my bad on the recollection of side by side sophomore to sophomore...when I looked..it was Gardner as a Junior to Blair as a sophomore - which is where I derived the 200 minute difference...when in reality the difference between their sophomore year's was over 400 minute disparity...and as a result...I think it further makes for the comparison to be not as statistically relevant.  

Here is a link to Gardner as a Senior to Blair as as sophmore - only use it because Gardner got 850 minutes as a senior..the most in his career....Blair still got 100 more for the year at 952...but this and Davante's Junior year tell a different story...

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2013-2014&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

[wadesworld]

Let's do that.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2011-2012&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

Physical stats
DB: 6"7, 265, 19 years old, more atheltic
DG: 6"8, 290, 19 years old, less athletic

Minutes Per Game:
DB: 27.2
DG: 19.1

Points Per 40:
DB: 23.1
DG: 19.8

Offensive Rating:
DB: 127.3
DG: 118.4

FG Pct:
DB: 59.3%
DG: 56.1%

Effective FG Pct:
DB: 59.3%
DG: 56%

FT Pct:
DB: 60.5%
DG: 75.5%

Free Throw Rate:
DB: 42.5
DG: 67.5

Rebounds per 40:
DB: 18.2
DG: 10.9

Rebounding Pct:
DB: 23.7% (o) 27.7% (d)
DG: 15.7% (o) 14.9% (o)

Assists per 40:
DB: 1.8
DG: 1.5

A/TO Ratio:
DB: 1.0
DG: 0.6

Steals per 40:
DB: 2.3
DG: 1.6

Steal Pct:
DB: 3.3
DG: 2.3

Blocks per 40:
DB: 1.4
DG: 0.4

Block Pct:
DB: 3.8%
DG: 0.9%

Turnovers per 40:
DB: 1.8
DG: 2.6

Turnover Pct:
DB: 10.6%
DG: 15.7%

Fouls per 40:
DB: 4.0
DG: 5.4

I love me some Davante Gardner. But Blair destroys him. You can say they have similar builds and similar styles of play, but Blair was and always will be the better college sophomore.

Is the debate over now?

Like Ners said, we are all grasping at straws here, TAMU.  Give it up, Ners played high school basketball.

[wadesworld]

Good stuff...and my bad on the recollection of side by side sophomore to sophomore...when I looked..it was Gardner as a Junior to Blair as a sophomore - which is where I derived the 200 minute difference...when in reality the difference between their sophomore year's was over 400 minute disparity...and as a result...I think it further makes for the comparison to be not as statistically relevant.  

Here is a link to Gardner as a Senior to Blair as as sophmore - only use it because Gardner got 850 minutes as a senior..the most in his career....Blair still got 100 more for the year at 952...but this and Davante's Junior year tell a different story...

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2013-2014&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

Dear Lord, talk about grasping at straws.  Why not just bring up Davante's junior year at Marquette vs. Blair's 7th grade middle school stats?  What the flying eff.  You say a few posts ago that everyone in their right mind who says Blair was a much better college player just jumps from one argument to the next as you factually prove them wrong, and you, fighting alone, go from "sophomore to sophomore per 40 minute stats because that's more factually equal" to "junior to sophomore per 40 minutes because the minutes are closer" to "the minutes aren't close enough, which is why the per 40 minutes aren't relevant" to "sophomore to senior per 40."  Keep on trying Ners.

[MU82]

How 'bout this stat:

Blair drafted despite shot knees.

Davante not even an afterthought of any NBA GM.

Let's start arguing Grant Hill vs. Jamil next.

[NersEllenson]

Dear Lord, talk about grasping at straws.  Why not just bring up Davante's junior year at Marquette vs. Blair's 7th grade middle school stats?  What the flying eff.  You say a few posts ago that everyone in their right mind who says Blair was a much better college player just jumps from one argument to the next as you factually prove them wrong, and you, fighting alone, go from "sophomore to sophomore per 40 minute stats because that's more factually equal" to "junior to sophomore per 40 minutes because the minutes are closer" to "the minutes aren't close enough, which is why the per 40 minutes aren't relevant" to "sophomore to senior per 40."  Keep on trying Ners.

As I explained....when I made the original comment...about them being alike the numbers I looked at where based off of Blair's sophomore year...and Gardner's Junior year.  That is when there was the 200 minute disparity I mentioned...and it was in that year that the two players look pretty identical..other than rebounding...which I've never for a second tried to assert Gardner was nearly as good...

And no...I never said  "You say a few posts ago that everyone in their right mind who says Blair was a much better college player just jumps from one argument to the next as you factually prove them wrong,"  I said..."it was discussed in length here about what Gardner's ORatings were in games he played more than 30 minutes versus those he played less - and as I recall his O-Rating was better in the games he played more than 30, than those he didn't....but then those of you who just disagree to disagree..then grasp at the next straws and try to find other arguments to support your false position...and then I think it became..well in games Gardner played back to back 30+minutes his O Rating was less...he needed more time to recover, etc...and that wasn't exactly true either.

If you can just chill out, as I know you get a major hard on if you can find a point of mine that makes me wrong....read the comments in their proper context...

[Texas Western]

You failed to realize Blair averaged 6 more minutes a game...more than 200 more minutes for the season.  Their Points per 40 minutes were virtually identical.  You give Gardner 200 more minutes and the numbers get even more favorable as far as FTA...

I don't dispute that Blair is a better rebounder at all.

Yeah...I saw Blair play a lot at Pitt and he was not a great athlete, nor very explosive to the rim at Pitt.  He's evolved into a better athlete as he's gotten into the pros and put the work in.  

Sorry, I'm just not ready to throw the towel in on Davante standing no chance to make the league....if he can get super dedicated in his conditioning....and stick with it for a couple of years in the D-League...he might make it....but...it's going to take a lot of discipline on his part.

I agree with you that if Davante is disciplined and works on his conditioning he may eventually earn a spot. It is a long shot for sure. The nice thing about the summer league is it shows Davante exactly what he has to do to make it. He has to be willing to put in the hard work.He brings some nice assets to the game but he has to eliminate his negatives.  No one said it was going to be easy.  He has to want it though. Wanting it means a commitment to defense and rebounding. I don't know if Europe or the D League is the better venue to hone these aspects of his game.

[forgetful]

Good stuff...and my bad on the recollection of side by side sophomore to sophomore...when I looked..it was Gardner as a Junior to Blair as a sophomore - which is where I derived the 200 minute difference...when in reality the difference between their sophomore year's was over 400 minute disparity...and as a result...I think it further makes for the comparison to be not as statistically relevant.  

Here is a link to Gardner as a Senior to Blair as as sophmore - only use it because Gardner got 850 minutes as a senior..the most in his career....Blair still got 100 more for the year at 952...but this and Davante's Junior year tell a different story...

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2013-2014&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

Even Sophomore to Junior, Blair is the much better player:

Pts per 40:
Blair   23.11
DG     21.5

Rb per 40:
Blair   18.2
DG      9.0

Assists per 40:
Blair    1.8
DG      1.7

Steals per 40:
Blair   2.3
DG     1.2

Blks per 40:
Blair   1.4
DG     1.1

TO's per 40:
Blair    1.8
DG      2.9

DG wins still on FT's but that is it, and he had an additional year of maturity and experience.

[NersEllenson]

Even Sophomore to Junior, Blair is the much better player:

Pts per 40:
Blair   23.11
DG     21.5

Rb per 40:
Blair   18.2
DG      9.0

Assists per 40:
Blair    1.8
DG      1.7

Steals per 40:
Blair   2.3
DG     1.2

Blks per 40:
Blair   1.4
DG     1.1

TO's per 40:
Blair    1.8
DG      2.9

DG wins still on FT's but that is it, and he had an additional year of maturity and experience.

The only area Blair is MUCH better than Gardner is rebounding.  Those other difference above are so miniscule...and that's the point...they were very similar players in college. Gardner always has been able to draw fouls at a higher rate than DeJuan Blair ever did...and then of course Gardner shoots those FTS at a much better percentage.  YOu could argue thatfor as big as the disparity is between Blair's rebounding ability and Gardners...so is Garnder's ability to draw fouls and get to the FT line compared to Blair.  Both of those qualities have high value - ability to rebound...and ability to draw fouls...

I'm not trying to argue if Blair is the better player.  He got drafted.  Been in the league 5 years.  Gardner has a long way to go.  I'm simply saying it isn't totally inconceivable...that is all.

[77ncaachamps]

Dang. Sucks for Blair.

Gets to the Finals with Spurs. Loses to Miami.

Year after, signs with Dallas. Spurs win Title.

[forgetful]

The only area Blair is MUCH better than Gardner is rebounding.  Those other difference above are so miniscule...and that's the point...they were very similar players in college. Gardner always has been able to draw fouls at a higher rate than DeJuan Blair ever did...and then of course Gardner shoots those FTS at a much better percentage.  YOu could argue thatfor as big as the disparity is between Blair's rebounding ability and Gardners...so is Garnder's ability to draw fouls and get to the FT line compared to Blair.  Both of those qualities have high value - ability to rebound...and ability to draw fouls...

I'm not trying to argue if Blair is the better player.  He got drafted.  Been in the league 5 years.  Gardner has a long way to go.  I'm simply saying it isn't totally inconceivable...that is all.

You do realize that he also has twice the number of steals, 30% more blocks and only 60% of the TO's right.  Those are all MUCH better.  Those alone account for 2.5 additional possessions per game.

But I'll agree, not totally inconceivable, but damn unlikely.  The point is though that the Blair comparison is ridiculous. 

[Nevada233]

You mean the game where he went 2-4 from the field and 5-7 from the line? Yeah, he went nuts...

Who was counting lol. I only seen him play like 2-4 minutes and didnt pass once lol. His best chance to make it to the league woulda been last year as a Senior thru MU.