MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Texas Western on July 04, 2014, 10:11:43 PM

Title: NBA Summer League
Post by: Texas Western on July 04, 2014, 10:11:43 PM
As of today no sign of Vander, Davante or Jamil on any summer league teams.
http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/?iref:nba:sl:subnav
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: brandx on July 04, 2014, 10:16:13 PM
Incomplete list.

I see that no one on the Bucks summer league team is listed yet.

Don't know what else is missing.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: 77ncaachamps on July 04, 2014, 10:18:49 PM
Any Twitter Chatter?


Maine Red Claws ‏@maineredclaws  Jul 3 Vander Blue, who appeared in 1 game for the Red Claws this season, will suit up for the @HoustonRockets during the Orlando @NBASummerLeague


Then there's this:

Nick Kapetan ‏@KapN93  12h  Jamil Wilson and Davante Gardner are not on any #NBA Summer League teams. Vander Blue is playing for the #Spurs. #mubb
Title: NBA Summer League Rosters
Post by: GGGG on July 05, 2014, 07:04:44 AM
Vander is on the Spurs.

No Jamil...no Davante.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League Rosters
Post by: GGGG on July 05, 2014, 07:05:35 AM
Oops sorry.  Didn't see this thread already.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League Rosters
Post by: Jay Bee on July 05, 2014, 07:56:42 AM
BAN WORTHY ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Atticus on July 05, 2014, 08:47:46 AM
I'm surprised the next Wes Unseld didn't get drafted or make a summer team. Or the next Jared Sullinger. Or the next Luis Scola. Or the guy that would foul out Dirk in 20 minutes. Or the guy that could average 10 PPG for his career...




Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: brandx on July 05, 2014, 01:33:35 PM
I'm surprised the next Wes Unseld didn't get drafted or make a summer team. Or the next Jared Sullinger. Or the next Luis Scola. Or the guy that would foul out Dirk in 20 minutes. Or the guy that could average 10 PPG for his career...



Our guy who was so sure that Otule would get drafted is nowhere to be seen either.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Sawsi on July 05, 2014, 02:41:29 PM
I laughed when I saw the Houston Rockets Orlando Summer League roster.  Easy mistake.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2118936-nba-summer-league-rosters-2014-team-by-team-list-of-players-for-orlando-vegas (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2118936-nba-summer-league-rosters-2014-team-by-team-list-of-players-for-orlando-vegas)



Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Eye on July 06, 2014, 08:06:01 AM
Today's lesson on why you can't trust much of anything on the Bleacher Report.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Texas Western on July 09, 2014, 07:00:41 AM
I just noticed that Trent Lockett is listed as on the NBA D League Select team for the Las Vegas NBA Summer League
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: 77ncaachamps on July 09, 2014, 02:06:01 PM
Yeah. Summer Rosters are in constant flux.

I think Jerel was on three team rosters from Orlando to LV for Summer League.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Eye on July 09, 2014, 09:17:40 PM
Buycks with anybody?
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: GGGG on July 09, 2014, 09:26:47 PM
Buycks with anybody?


Yes he is still under contract with the Raptors and is on their summer league team.  However he will likely be waived in a couple of weeks because his contract isn't guaranteed next year.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: 77ncaachamps on July 10, 2014, 02:59:14 AM

Yes he is still under contract with the Raptors and is on their summer league team.  However he will likely be waived in a couple of weeks because his contract isn't guaranteed next year.

But he is restricted which means ..... (what for his contract/rights/status/etc.)?
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: State Street Warrior on July 12, 2014, 12:02:49 AM
Nm
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: marquette20 on July 12, 2014, 09:28:06 PM
Davante only got a little less than 2 minutes of garbage time for the Bulls, but looked good. Held his box outs and scored 4 points. First basket was on a put back. Also, had a nice drive from the free throw line with a spin move finish with a foul. Failed to convert the and 1 though.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: MU82 on July 12, 2014, 10:10:30 PM
Davante only got a little less than 2 minutes of garbage time for the Bulls, but looked good. Held his box outs and scored 4 points. First basket was on a put back. Also, had a nice drive from the free throw line with a spin move finish with a foul. Failed to convert the and 1 though.

Probably because nobody was chanting, "Au-to-ma-tic!"
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Texas Western on July 12, 2014, 10:16:03 PM
Davante only got a little less than 2 minutes of garbage time for the Bulls, but looked good. Held his box outs and scored 4 points. First basket was on a put back. Also, had a nice drive from the free throw line with a spin move finish with a foul. Failed to convert the and 1 though.
A good first outing for Davante. At least he got to play and made something of it. Looks like Jamil got 14 minutes, 5 points, 5 Rebounds and an assist for the Wizards. Lockett had 34 minutes, 13 points , 9 boards  3 assists and 3 steals for NBA D league select. So he is making something happen it seems.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: MUchamp22 on July 13, 2014, 12:28:03 AM
Who, out of the MU guys, will actually stick in the NBA this year?
I'd say Buycks and the rest is up in the air.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: reinko on July 13, 2014, 04:44:07 AM
Who, out of the MU guys, will actually stick in the NBA this year?
I'd say Buycks and the rest is up in the air.

My money is on Wade and Wes.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Tugg Speedman on July 13, 2014, 06:44:53 AM
My money is on Wade and Wes.

I'm going with Jimmy
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 13, 2014, 08:08:09 AM
I'm going with Jimmy

I'll add Crowder to the list. Novak I'm less sure of but I think he'll have a role in SLC
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: GGGG on July 13, 2014, 08:44:39 AM
I'm pretty sure he meant those MU alums on a summer league roster.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: MU82 on July 13, 2014, 09:31:27 AM
I'm pretty sure he meant those MU alums on a summer league roster.

Oh, then I'll go with Davante ... providing the team he goes to plays 40 or so games against the Mavs. Because he'd foul out Dirk every time.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: JustinLewisFanClubPres on July 13, 2014, 09:34:30 AM
Oh, then I'll go with Davante ... providing the team he goes to plays 40 or so games against the Mavs. Because he'd foul out Dirk every time.

Classic.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 13, 2014, 10:50:12 AM
Oh, then I'll go with Davante ... providing the team he goes to plays 40 or so games against the Mavs. Because he'd foul out Dirk every time.

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/000/681/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg)
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: NersEllenson on July 13, 2014, 11:19:19 AM
Oh, then I'll go with Davante ... providing the team he goes to plays 40 or so games against the Mavs. Because he'd foul out Dirk every time.

That point was made with regard to someone saying Davante doesn't stand a chance in the league as he'd have to guard guys like Dirk...and no way he could....point was Dirk couldn't guard Davante on the low block either.  It goes two ways.  Davante is extremely difficult to stop 1 on 1 no matter who you put on him..and put him on a team with pros, guys who can shoot at all positions and space the floor...he's a load down low.

But...I appreciate your attempt at humor...
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: wadesworld on July 13, 2014, 12:25:54 PM
That point was made with regard to someone saying Davante doesn't stand a chance in the league as he'd have to guard guys like Dirk...and no way he could....point was Dirk couldn't guard Davante on the low block either.  It goes two ways.  Davante is extremely difficult to stop 1 on 1 no matter who you put on him..and put him on a team with pros, guys who can shoot at all positions and space the floor...he's a load down low.

But...I appreciate your attempt at humor...

If a starting PF in the NBA could not stop Davante Gardner from scoring on him every time down the floor, or if Davante Gardner could foul out a starting power forward in the NBA in 20 minutes, Danavte Gardner would have been a 1st round NBA Draft pick this year.  Instead, he will never even see an NBA contract.  I'm fairly confident in saying that if Dirk was able to guard guys like Tim Duncan, Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Blake Griffin, and Zach Randolph, he'd do alright guarding a guy who will never see an NBA court.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: NersEllenson on July 13, 2014, 12:33:15 PM
If a starting PF in the NBA could not stop Davante Gardner from scoring on him every time down the floor, or if Davante Gardner could foul out a starting power forward in the NBA in 20 minutes, Danavte Gardner would have been a 1st round NBA Draft pick this year.  Instead, he will never even see an NBA contract.  I'm fairly confident in saying that if Dirk was able to guard guys like Tim Duncan, Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Blake Griffin, and Zach Randolph, he'd do alright guarding a guy who will never see an NBA court.

Fair point.  Yet, it still wouldn't surprise me to see DG make an NBA team at some point in his career.  He is a very unique player.  Crafty is an understatement.  Not many guys out there like him.  I suspect if he gets some decent minutes with Bulls Summer League team - you will see him post high O-Rating numbers as he did in college, be very efficient....hell in his first game he got 3 or 4 minutes...scored 4 points and drew a foul...standard Davante type of line.  Albeit , sounds like it was in garbage time..
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: wadesworld on July 13, 2014, 12:49:14 PM
Fair point.  Yet, it still wouldn't surprise me to see DG make an NBA team at some point in his career.  He is a very unique player.  Crafty is an understatement.  Not many guys out there like him.  I suspect if he gets some decent minutes with Bulls Summer League team - you will see him post high O-Rating numbers as he did in college, be very efficient....hell in his first game he got 3 or 4 minutes...scored 4 points and drew a foul...standard Davante type of line.  Albeit , sounds like it was in garbage time..


I agree he is very crafty and has really good feet for a guy with his build.  But he is only like 6'6" (truly).  If he was 6'9" he might have a chance, but I think he would struggle with the taller defenders he would see every time down the court.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Texas Western on July 13, 2014, 12:56:06 PM
Fair point.  Yet, it still wouldn't surprise me to see DG make an NBA team at some point in his career.  He is a very unique player.  Crafty is an understatement.  Not many guys out there like him.  I suspect if he gets some decent minutes with Bulls Summer League team - you will see him post high O-Rating numbers as he did in college, be very efficient....hell in his first game he got 3 or 4 minutes...scored 4 points and drew a foul...standard Davante type of line.  Albeit , sounds like it was in garbage time..

I agree with you on his unique abilities. In addition, I have always felt the NBA is  also in the entertainment business and from the stand point of the fans, a team would be better served having a guy like Davante fill the last spot on the roster than some unknown stiff from Europe. He could pretty quickly generate a following.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: brandx on July 13, 2014, 02:04:16 PM
If a starting PF in the NBA could not stop Davante Gardner from scoring on him every time down the floor, or if Davante Gardner could foul out a starting power forward in the NBA in 20 minutes, Danavte Gardner would have been a 1st round NBA Draft pick this year.  Instead, he will never even see an NBA contract.  I'm fairly confident in saying that if Dirk was able to guard guys like Tim Duncan, Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Blake Griffin, and Zach Randolph, he'd do alright guarding a guy who will never see an NBA court.

Agree 100%.

Dirk would destroy Gardner on both ends of the floor.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: wadesworld on July 13, 2014, 02:13:36 PM
I agree with you on his unique abilities. In addition, I have always felt the NBA is  also in the entertainment business and from the stand point of the fans, a team would be better served having a guy like Davante fill the last spot on the roster than some unknown stiff from Europe. He could pretty quickly generate a following.

I usually agree with just about everything you say but we definitely disagree here. How many 13th men on NBA rosters generate tickets? Even if it was Gardner in Milwaukee, maybe for the 1st 5 games of his first season the Bucks would sell a few extra tickets to MU fans hoping to see Gardner, until they realize they'll never see him after layup lines and that ends pretty quickly. No need to waste a roster spot, guys who get 0 minutes/game don't sell tickets regardless of who they are.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 13, 2014, 02:26:52 PM
Thing is Nowitzke et al would leave Gardner in their wake.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: forgetful on July 13, 2014, 05:26:25 PM
That point was made with regard to someone saying Davante doesn't stand a chance in the league as he'd have to guard guys like Dirk...and no way he could....point was Dirk couldn't guard Davante on the low block either.  It goes two ways.  Davante is extremely difficult to stop 1 on 1 no matter who you put on him..and put him on a team with pros, guys who can shoot at all positions and space the floor...he's a load down low.

But...I appreciate your attempt at humor...

There are countless guys in the NBA that could guard Davante.  The problem is there are next to none that he could guard.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: NersEllenson on July 13, 2014, 06:36:26 PM
There are countless guys in the NBA that could guard Davante.  The problem is there are next to none that he could guard.

Okay...I just feel Gardner was pretty darn effective at the highest level of college ball as a junior - against Gorgi Dieng, Greg Monroe, and a number of other guys in the NBA that he squared off against in the Big East - when guarded 1 on 1. 

So I assume you don't think he'll stand a chance of making an NBA team ever, correct?
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: tower912 on July 13, 2014, 06:55:58 PM
Davante could make the team in 40 lbs., the development of a left hand, a counter move, and quicker feet.   As written elsewhere, your NBA position is dictated by who you can guard.   Right now, I can't think of anyone he could effectively guard.   6'7 with slow feet does not get you into the league.   And Davante tended to struggle getting his shot off against athletic big men, a la Florida.   I think you overvalue his unique skill set.

http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/sl_davante_gardner/

But he did get 4 pts in 2 minutes in his first summer league action. 
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: MU82 on July 13, 2014, 07:02:54 PM
Zero chance for Gardner. Wait ... I'll amend that. Less than 1% chance.

Always gotta leave myself an out!

The very few players in NBA history who had similar bodies were incredible rebounders (Unseld), explosive leapers (Blair) or taller (6-foot-8).

I can think of no situation in which an NBA team would have Davante on the roster. The only handful of folks who might disagree with that are Marquette fans who regularly disagree with every GM in the league and think our guys should be there.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Lennys Tap on July 13, 2014, 08:11:25 PM
I loved Davante, but the NBA? Somebody's stolen Grandma's medical marijuana. Chris Otule's size and strength gave him fits for Godsakes. He would have opposing centers salivating in the NBA.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: NersEllenson on July 13, 2014, 08:19:41 PM
I loved Davante, but the NBA? Somebody's stolen Grandma's medical marijuana. Chris Otule's size and strength gave him fits for Godsakes. He would have opposing centers salivating in the NBA.

LOL - I understand he isn't prototypical - but he's very talented.  Funny that Otule gave Gardner fits, yet Gardner got way more minutes than Otule?  Hmm.  Interesting.  Gardner's D may leave a lot to be desired....but he is such an incredibly efficient Offensive player...and it is much easier to impact a game being an offensive force, than it is defensively....which is why Davante got  nearly twice the minutes Otule did.  The same should have applied to Burton last season...especially since Buzz was so hell bent on starting a backcourt incredibly limited offensively.

And btw...where did you hear Otule's size and strength gave him fits? 
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: GGGG on July 13, 2014, 08:23:31 PM
LOL - I understand he isn't prototypical - but he's very talented.  Funny that Otule gave Gardner fits, yet Gardner got way more minutes than Otule?  Hmm.  Interesting.  Gardner's D may leave a lot to be desired....but he is such an incredibly efficient Offensive player...and it is much easier to impact a game being an offensive force, than it is defensively....which is why Davante got  nearly twice the minutes Otule did.  The same should have applied to Burton last season...especially since Buzz was so hell bent on starting a backcourt incredibly limited offensively.


Why, why, why...why do you have to default to this kind of stuff?  Just stick to the topic.

I agree that Gardner has a different offensive skill set that served him well in college.  But I think an NBA team isn't going to be running him post up sets because that's not what NBA offenses do any longer.  

Ever is a long time, but I would be surprised if he makes the NBA.  Too short and doesn't have the speed to make up for it.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: forgetful on July 13, 2014, 08:41:33 PM
Okay...I just feel Gardner was pretty darn effective at the highest level of college ball as a junior - against Gorgi Dieng, Greg Monroe, and a number of other guys in the NBA that he squared off against in the Big East - when guarded 1 on 1. 

So I assume you don't think he'll stand a chance of making an NBA team ever, correct?

The problem is he was a good, not great, offensive player in college.  That would equate to average at best in the NBA.  Meanwhile he was a poor college defender.  That makes him pretty much unplayable in the NBA unless he improves his D dramatically.

In the end that is a recipe for playing overseas.  As far as never making a roster.  Never is a strong word, he does have some unique skills, if he busts his ass off to fix all his weaknesses he could make a roster some day.  I don't see that happening anytime soon however, if ever.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Lennys Tap on July 13, 2014, 08:43:42 PM


And btw...where did you hear Otule's size and strength gave him fits? 

Saw it with my own eyes at open scrimmages over the years. The last time was Midnight Madness last year. Davante struggled on both ends of the court, eventually moved outside on offense and shot jump/set shots. Chris probably benefitted from knowing all of Davante's favorite moves, but scouts in the NBA will expose you too. IMO he would be overwhelmed physically on the inside in the NBA.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Texas Western on July 13, 2014, 09:03:55 PM
Tonight Davante had no points no board in 3:09. He missed a 3 pointer. By comparison Doug McDermott had 31 points.
http://www.nba.com/games/20140713/CHIDEN/gameinfo.html
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: NersEllenson on July 13, 2014, 09:05:39 PM
Saw it with my own eyes at open scrimmages over the years. The last time was Midnight Madness last year. Davante struggled on both ends of the court, eventually moved outside on offense and shot jump/set shots. Chris probably benefitted from knowing all of Davante's favorite moves, but scouts in the NBA will expose you too. IMO he would be overwhelmed physically on the inside in the NBA.

Midnight Madness is hardly a place to make such evaluations - it is a free for all - generally played in transition, and FAR different from what you'll see during a true game environment.  Davante floating to the outside was more a function of Davante having fun, and wanting to be a guard at heart...than it was to do with Otule stopping him.

But still...if Otule was such a defensive force that he were able to shut Davante down (which I don't believe to be true for a minute)...then why do you feel Davante got twice the minutes Chris did?  And we know Otule is Buzz's guy...you'd think for as much as Buzz LOVED Chris...if it was even close...those minutes would have been split 50/50 right?
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: NersEllenson on July 13, 2014, 09:22:56 PM
The problem is he was a good, not great, offensive player in college.  That would equate to average at best in the NBA.  Meanwhile he was a poor college defender.  That makes him pretty much unplayable in the NBA unless he improves his D dramatically.

In the end that is a recipe for playing overseas.  As far as never making a roster.  Never is a strong word, he does have some unique skills, if he busts his ass off to fix all his weaknesses he could make a roster some day.  I don't see that happening anytime soon however, if ever.

Here is a side by side comparison of DeJuan Blair and Gardner - granted Blair's numbers were as a sophomore...and I chose to use Gardner's as a Junior as he was playing with better teammates...though his senior numbers were virtually the same...Blair was able to get drafted after leaving early and has found a role on an NBA team...and the two are not THAT different...but Blair is a better rebounder..

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2012-2013&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

You are probably right on DG not making an NBA team at any point...yet if someone gave me 10 to 1 odds, maybe 7 to 1 odds....I'd probably bet $100 on it.  Think his chances are probably between 10-30%. 

I do disagree though with you, in that I feel Davante was a great offensive player in college.  His ability to draw fouls was incredible, as was his ability to finish around the basket.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: MU82 on July 13, 2014, 09:46:39 PM
Here is a side by side comparison of DeJuan Blair and Gardner - granted Blair's numbers were as a sophomore...and I chose to use Gardner's as a Junior as he was playing with better teammates...though his senior numbers were virtually the same...Blair was able to get drafted after leaving early and has found a role on an NBA team...and the two are not THAT different...but Blair is a better rebounder..

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2012-2013&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

You are probably right on DG not making an NBA team at any point...yet if someone gave me 10 to 1 odds, maybe 7 to 1 odds....I'd probably bet $100 on it.  Think his chances are probably between 10-30%. 

I do disagree though with you, in that I feel Davante was a great offensive player in college.  His ability to draw fouls was incredible, as was his ability to finish around the basket.

Gardner and Blair are significantly different. Throw away the numbers. Have you ever seen Blair play?

Blair is fast for a big man and explosive to the rim. I can think of two occasions in which the underside of the rim blocked Davante on a pathetic dunk attempt. Blair is an athlete. Please.

Look, I hate to keep running down Davante. He was a nice player for us, a key contributor to S16-S16-E8. He is not an NBA player. There's no shame in that.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: forgetful on July 13, 2014, 09:59:58 PM
Here is a side by side comparison of DeJuan Blair and Gardner - granted Blair's numbers were as a sophomore...and I chose to use Gardner's as a Junior as he was playing with better teammates...though his senior numbers were virtually the same...Blair was able to get drafted after leaving early and has found a role on an NBA team...and the two are not THAT different...but Blair is a better rebounder..

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2012-2013&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

You are probably right on DG not making an NBA team at any point...yet if someone gave me 10 to 1 odds, maybe 7 to 1 odds....I'd probably bet $100 on it.  Think his chances are probably between 10-30%. 

I do disagree though with you, in that I feel Davante was a great offensive player in college.  His ability to draw fouls was incredible, as was his ability to finish around the basket.

The stats between the two really aren't remotely close.  Blair beats Gardner by a considerable margin in all categories except FT shooting.

Blair averaged 16 pts and 12 rbs per game, and outperformed Gardner on defense by a wide margin.

Gardner averaged 12 pts and 5 rbs.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: DSEEagle on July 13, 2014, 10:11:29 PM
If anyone watched the summer league game tonight  then this conversation would be over. I was embarrassed watching Davante. In his 3 minutes he could barely get up and down the court. He got burned on defense twice and fouled once. He hoisted a 3 which was a brick. End of story. That being said...loved the guy in an MU uniform.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: NersEllenson on July 13, 2014, 10:16:14 PM
The stats between the two really aren't remotely close.  Blair beats Gardner by a considerable margin in all categories except FT shooting.

Blair averaged 16 pts and 12 rbs per game, and outperformed Gardner on defense by a wide margin.

Gardner averaged 12 pts and 5 rbs.

You failed to realize Blair averaged 6 more minutes a game...more than 200 more minutes for the season.  Their Points per 40 minutes were virtually identical.  You give Gardner 200 more minutes and the numbers get even more favorable as far as FTA...

I don't dispute that Blair is a better rebounder at all.

Gardner and Blair are significantly different. Throw away the numbers. Have you ever seen Blair play?

Blair is fast for a big man and explosive to the rim. I can think of two occasions in which the underside of the rim blocked Davante on a pathetic dunk attempt. Blair is an athlete. Please.


Yeah...I saw Blair play a lot at Pitt and he was not a great athlete, nor very explosive to the rim at Pitt.  He's evolved into a better athlete as he's gotten into the pros and put the work in.  

Sorry, I'm just not ready to throw the towel in on Davante standing no chance to make the league....if he can get super dedicated in his conditioning....and stick with it for a couple of years in the D-League...he might make it....but...it's going to take a lot of discipline on his part.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Markusquette on July 13, 2014, 11:32:13 PM
Jamil is 4-5 with 11 points in 18 minutes so far (and 4 TO).
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: 77ncaachamps on July 13, 2014, 11:48:30 PM
Jamil had a great night.

Perfect front the field and line.
17 min played.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: forgetful on July 14, 2014, 01:24:16 AM
You failed to realize Blair averaged 6 more minutes a game...more than 200 more minutes for the season.  Their Points per 40 minutes were virtually identical.  You give Gardner 200 more minutes and the numbers get even more favorable as far as FTA...

I don't dispute that Blair is a better rebounder at all.


I guess part of the reason, why in this case I don't buy the 40 minutes per as much is that Gardner couldn't play more than that.  His conditioning was such that even at that usage (6 fewer minutes per game), he was exhausted and playing to the max for his conditioning. 

Again, Gardner has a solid skill set, unique abilities.  Glad he was at MU for 4 years, but he just isn't NBA caliber.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 14, 2014, 06:17:25 AM
I guess part of the reason, why in this case I don't buy the 40 minutes per as much is that Gardner couldn't play more than that.  His conditioning was such that even at that usage (6 fewer minutes per game), he was exhausted and playing to the max for his conditioning. 

Again, Gardner has a solid skill set, unique abilities.  Glad he was at MU for 4 years, but he just isn't NBA caliber.

I don't think Davante is NBA worthy, but this talk of him being "exhausted" is absolute bullsh*t. He was our best player last year by a wide margin, but for some reason Buzz had him sharing minutes with Otule. He was never "exhausted."
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on July 14, 2014, 07:12:30 AM
You failed to realize Blair averaged 6 more minutes a game...more than 200 more minutes for the season.  Their Points per 40 minutes were virtually identical.  You give Gardner 200 more minutes and the numbers get even more favorable as far as FTA...

I don't dispute that Blair is a better rebounder at all.

Yeah...I saw Blair play a lot at Pitt and he was not a great athlete, nor very explosive to the rim at Pitt.  He's evolved into a better athlete as he's gotten into the pros and put the work in.  

Sorry, I'm just not ready to throw the towel in on Davante standing no chance to make the league....if he can get super dedicated in his conditioning....and stick with it for a couple of years in the D-League...he might make it....but...it's going to take a lot of discipline on his part.
Yep.  Not very athletic at all while at Pitt... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxxqEKssvgI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxxqEKssvgI)
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: reinko on July 14, 2014, 07:13:55 AM
I don't think Davante is NBA worthy, but this talk of him being "exhausted" is absolute bullsh*t. He was our best player last year by a wide margin, but for some reason Buzz had him sharing minutes with Otule. He was never "exhausted."

So if he wasn't tired,  then he was either slow or lazy for stretches for a lot of games.  I will let you decide.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 14, 2014, 07:53:17 AM
So if he wasn't tired,  then he was either slow or lazy for stretches for a lot of games.  I will let you decide.
"Hey! Look at the fat guy! Isn't he slow and lazy?"

In my opinion, this approaches "traditional" territory.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: MU82 on July 14, 2014, 08:33:02 AM
You failed to realize Blair averaged 6 more minutes a game...more than 200 more minutes for the season.  Their Points per 40 minutes were virtually identical.  You give Gardner 200 more minutes and the numbers get even more favorable as far as FTA...

I don't dispute that Blair is a better rebounder at all.

Yeah...I saw Blair play a lot at Pitt and he was not a great athlete, nor very explosive to the rim at Pitt.  He's evolved into a better athlete as he's gotten into the pros and put the work in.  

Sorry, I'm just not ready to throw the towel in on Davante standing no chance to make the league....if he can get super dedicated in his conditioning....and stick with it for a couple of years in the D-League...he might make it....but...it's going to take a lot of discipline on his part.

I think you are "misremembering" Blair at Pitt. He authored numerous violent, spectacular dunks. Davante barely can get the ball over the rim.

Anyway, we'll have the answer soon enough without having to speculate.

Blair was good enough to get drafted, good enough to get minutes for a great Spurs team, good enough for the Mavericks to want to acquire him, and good enough to get significant minutes for a Mavs team that almost beat the Spurs in the playoffs in part because Blair played well. He seems poised to have a long, fruitful NBA career.

Davante wasn't drafted and does not seem to be generating any serious interest among GMs and coaches.

Let's see where each is two years from now.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 14, 2014, 08:35:57 AM
I think you are "misremembering" Blair at Pitt. He authored numerous violent, spectacular dunks. Davante barely can get the ball over the rim.

Anyway, we'll have the answer soon enough without having to speculate.

Blair was good enough to get drafted, good enough to get minutes for a great Spurs team, good enough for the Mavericks to want to acquire him, and good enough to get significant minutes for a Mavs team that almost beat the Spurs in the playoffs in part because Blair played well. He seems poised to have a long, fruitful NBA career.

Davante wasn't drafted and does not seem to be generating any serious interest among GMs and coaches.

Let's see where each is two years from now.
Didn't Blair also have some kind of degenerative knee condition that saw his draft stock fall? Davante could've been a Blair type. It didn't happen for whatever reason. Still one of my all time favorites at MU and maybe the most likable player since Novak.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: GGGG on July 14, 2014, 08:44:31 AM
Didn't Blair also have some kind of degenerative knee condition that saw his draft stock fall? Davante could've been a Blair type. It didn't happen for whatever reason. Still one of my all time favorites at MU and maybe the most likable player since Novak.


Blair doesn't have ACLs in his knees.  I thought too that Davante could have been a Blair type once he dropped pounds, but he's simply not athletic enough.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: NersEllenson on July 14, 2014, 09:03:54 AM
I think you are "misremembering" Blair at Pitt. He authored numerous violent, spectacular dunks. Davante barely can get the ball over the rim.

Anyway, we'll have the answer soon enough without having to speculate.

Blair was good enough to get drafted, good enough to get minutes for a great Spurs team, good enough for the Mavericks to want to acquire him, and good enough to get significant minutes for a Mavs team that almost beat the Spurs in the playoffs in part because Blair played well. He seems poised to have a long, fruitful NBA career.

Davante wasn't drafted and does not seem to be generating any serious interest among GMs and coaches.

Let's see where each is two years from now.

Blair did not author many violent, spectacular dunks while at Pitt - The highlight clip - which are his best plays from his last season in college...have about 5 dunks for the whole year...none of which are incredibly spectacular.  Gardner has dunked on a number of occasions at MU...Blair was not expolsive at Pitt....however..I will say Blair is a little bit more athletic than Gardner - but it isn't much of a difference...not during their college careers..

Now...it's been 5 years since he's been in the league...this last season being the 5th - he was drafted in 2009...and he's just now starting to make his mark...so he wasn't an immediate sensation in the NBA by any stretch of the imagination.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: GGGG on July 14, 2014, 09:16:13 AM
Now...it's been 5 years since he's been in the league...this last season being the 5th - he was drafted in 2009...and he's just now starting to make his mark...so he wasn't an immediate sensation in the NBA by any stretch of the imagination.


Actually Blair played more mpg his first three seasons (all in San Antonio) than he has his last two (last year in SA and first year in Dallas).  He's been a regular rotation guy pretty much every year he has been in the league.

Now I would hardly call him a "sensation" at all.  Good role player, occasional starter, who gives you some solid minutes and can put the ball in the basket.  But better than Davante Gardner.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Lennys Tap on July 14, 2014, 09:49:46 AM

Actually Blair played more mpg his first three seasons (all in San Antonio) than he has his last two (last year in SA and first year in Dallas).  He's been a regular rotation guy pretty much every year he has been in the league.


You are correct. Here are his numbers:

09-10  18.2 minutes, 7.8 pts, 6.4 rbs
10-11  21.4 minutes, 8.3 pts, 7.0 rbs
11-12  21.3 minutes, 9.5 pts, 5.5 rbs
12-13  14.0 minutes, 5.4 pts, 3.8 rbs
13-14  15.6 minutes, 6.4 pts, 4.7 rbs

Rather than "come into his own", years 4 and 5 have been his least productive in his career.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on July 14, 2014, 10:01:35 AM
Blair did not author many violent, spectacular dunks while at Pitt - The highlight clip - which are his best plays from his last season in college...have about 5 dunks for the whole year...none of which are incredibly spectacular.  Gardner has dunked on a number of occasions at MU...Blair was not expolsive at Pitt....however..I will say Blair is a little bit more athletic than Gardner - but it isn't much of a difference...not during their college careers..

Now...it's been 5 years since he's been in the league...this last season being the 5th - he was drafted in 2009...and he's just now starting to make his mark...so he wasn't an immediate sensation in the NBA by any stretch of the imagination.
There is no way you can watch that video and still claim that Blair isn't a great deal more athletic than Davante.

Unless you are trying to bend reality into a narrative you have created for yourself.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: MU82 on July 14, 2014, 10:14:23 AM
There is no way you can watch that video and still claim that Blair isn't a great deal more athletic than Davante.

Unless you are trying to bend reality into a narrative you have created for yourself.

This. I'm done arguing this silliness. The argument is already won. Blair is a well-compensated, productive NBA pro. IMHO, Davante never will be any of those things. I'm not going to do a Dawson/Derrick rehash of the obvious.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: brandx on July 14, 2014, 12:26:09 PM
We are also ignoring the fact that Blair is doing all of this without ACLs in either knee due to surgeries he had in HS.

To compare Gardner to even a half-crippled Blair is still ludicrous.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 14, 2014, 02:03:29 PM
I love me some Davante Gardner. But Dejaun Blair eats Davante's breakfast.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Texas Western on July 14, 2014, 08:10:19 PM
Vander a DNP-coaches decision tonight. Saw almost no playing time in the summer league for the Spurs.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: 77ncaachamps on July 14, 2014, 08:15:51 PM
Vander a DNP-coaches decision tonight. Saw almost no playing time in the summer league for the Spurs.

That's gotta be frustrating. Feel bad for the kid.

I expect him to garner some serious minutes when he's 3 years older; the Spurs like their players mature.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: 77ncaachamps on July 15, 2014, 11:44:55 PM
Watching Jamil (Wiz) vs. Heat (on replay).

Still looks like he doesn't have it in the belly.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Texas Western on July 15, 2014, 11:46:37 PM
Watching Jamil (Wiz) vs. Heat (on replay).

Still looks like he doesn't have it in the belly.
He had another nice game tonight and so did Davante.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: 77ncaachamps on July 16, 2014, 10:36:27 PM
Lockett just hit a three. Announcer mentions MU.

NBADL Select (Lockett's team) up by a couple on the Nuggets.

Winner advances...


He had another nice game tonight and so did Davante.

Good.

I saw him standing and watching the ball off backboard when an opponent just blew right past his "no blockout" and dunk it right near him.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: martyconlonontherun on July 17, 2014, 07:42:48 AM
That's gotta be frustrating. Feel bad for the kid.

I expect him to garner some serious minutes when he's 3 years older; the Spurs like their players mature.

Just to make sure, this is in teal, right?
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on July 17, 2014, 09:24:22 AM
Vander had 12 points for the Spurs vs. the Bucks yesterday
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Freeport Warrior on July 17, 2014, 10:16:33 AM
Now...it's been 5 years since he's been in the league.
Really, all that needs to be said.

Take off the homer glasses. Blair is, and has been, a "better" player in every sense of the word. It's not even close.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Avenue Commons on July 17, 2014, 02:48:31 PM
Really, all that needs to be said.

Take off the homer glasses. Blair is, and has been, a "better" player in every sense of the word. It's not even close.

Dajuan Blair was a monster in college. Only reason he slipped low in the draft was because of his knees.

He is a totally different category of player than Davante, and I love Davante.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: NersEllenson on July 17, 2014, 04:00:44 PM
Really, all that needs to be said.

Take off the homer glasses. Blair is, and has been, a "better" player in every sense of the word. It's not even close.

Dajuan Blair was a monster in college. Only reason he slipped low in the draft was because of his knees.

He is a totally different category of player than Davante, and I love Davante.

Okay...hard to argue against your points...in that Blair does have 5 years in the NBA...and Davante will struggle to make it.  I was comparing their college production...as sophomores...the numbers were pretty darn close...other than Blair getting 200 more minutes...you look at things from a per minute played basis...and all of the number other than rebounding...are in Davante's favor...when looked at head to head as sophomores in college with Blair...

Blair I'll concede is a better overall athlete in that he's a little quicker and can jump better than Davante....but Davante also has about 30 pounds on Blair that work to Davante's benefit offensively as far as creating space/scoring.

You guys want to offer 7 or 10-1 odds Gardner wont' make the NBA ever...I'll take your odds...PM me..if interested..
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: wadesworld on July 17, 2014, 05:01:17 PM
Okay...hard to argue against your points...in that Blair does have 5 years in the NBA...and Davante will struggle to make it.  I was comparing their college production...as sophomores...the numbers were pretty darn close...other than Blair getting 200 more minutes...you look at things from a per minute played basis...and all of the number other than rebounding...are in Davante's favor...when looked at head to head as sophomores in college with Blair...

Blair I'll concede is a better overall athlete in that he's a little quicker and can jump better than Davante....but Davante also has about 30 pounds on Blair that work to Davante's benefit offensively as far as creating space/scoring.

You guys want to offer 7 or 10-1 odds Gardner wont' make the NBA ever...I'll take your odds...PM me..if interested..

So Blair shouldn't be credited at all for being in condition to play an extra 6 minutes/game?  Isn't that part of the game of basketball, being conditioned?  Someone who can only play 25 minutes per game is not as good/valuable as someone who can play 31 minutes per game if their stats per 40 minutes are equal, because the guy who can play more minutes is producing more overall and producing for a longer time.  Otherwise Greg Oden shouldn't be considered a bust, he gets a dunk about every 45 seconds for his career.  It's not his fault he's never on the court, is it?
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: NersEllenson on July 17, 2014, 06:20:30 PM
So Blair shouldn't be credited at all for being in condition to play an extra 6 minutes/game?  Isn't that part of the game of basketball, being conditioned?  Someone who can only play 25 minutes per game is not as good/valuable as someone who can play 31 minutes per game if their stats per 40 minutes are equal, because the guy who can play more minutes is producing more overall and producing for a longer time.  Otherwise Greg Oden shouldn't be considered a bust, he gets a dunk about every 45 seconds for his career.  It's not his fault he's never on the court, is it?

Gardner could have played 6 more minutes a game as a sophomore - it would have been just fine.  Just like he could have played 30 minutes a game last season...but Buzz chose not to.  It was discussed in length here about what Gardner's ORatings were in games he played more than 30 minutes versus those he played less - and as I recall his O-Rating was better in the games he played more than 30, than those he didn't....but then those of you who just disagree to disagree..then grasp at the next straws and try to find other arguments to support your false position...and then I think it became..well in games Gardner played back to back 30+minutes his O Rating was less...he needed more time to recover, etc...and that wasn't exactly true either.

I'll concede Blair was a better rebounder at the college level than was Gardner, and a little more athletic - but beyond that - they are very similar players.  Blair has made it in the NBA..so clearly he's better than Davante...and some of you don't think Davante stands a snowballs chance in hell in making an NBA team ever...I simply feel that he has a 10-30% chance of making a team one day.  Which is why I'd take 10-1, or 7-1 betting odds...
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Nevada233 on July 17, 2014, 06:23:15 PM
I see Vander Blue out there taking a bunch of "Im going for mine" Shots..... Today for the Spurs Summer League team...
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: brandx on July 17, 2014, 07:00:57 PM
Gardner could have played 6 more minutes a game as a sophomore - it would have been just fine.  Just like he could have played 30 minutes a game last season...but Buzz chose not to.  It was discussed in length here about what Gardner's ORatings were in games he played more than 30 minutes versus those he played less - and as I recall his O-Rating was better in the games he played more than 30, than those he didn't....but then those of you who just disagree to disagree..then grasp at the next straws and try to find other arguments to support your false position...and then I think it became..well in games Gardner played back to back 30+minutes his O Rating was less...he needed more time to recover, etc...and that wasn't exactly true either.

I'll concede Blair was a better rebounder at the college level than was Gardner, and a little more athletic - but beyond that - they are very similar players.  Blair has made it in the NBA..so clearly he's better than Davante...and some of you don't think Davante stands a snowballs chance in hell in making an NBA team ever...I simply feel that he has a 10-30% chance of making a team one day.  Which is why I'd take 10-1, or 7-1 betting odds...

Of course that would be a great bet - anyone would be a sucker to take it. There are a hundred guys you never heard of that had 10-day contracts in the NBA and nothing more. If Davante makes it, that is what it will be.

Now offer a bet that Davante will be in the NBA for a full season with those same odds and you wouldn't be able to cover the losses.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 17, 2014, 07:10:37 PM
I see Vander Blue out there taking a bunch of "Im going for mine" Shots..... Today for the Spurs Summer League team...


Cat was no where to be seen at crunch time, hey?
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 17, 2014, 07:38:42 PM
when looked at head to head as sophomores in college with Blair...

Let's do that.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2011-2012&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

Physical stats
DB: 6"7, 265, 19 years old, more atheltic
DG: 6"8, 290, 19 years old, less athletic

Minutes Per Game:
DB: 27.2
DG: 19.1

Points Per 40:
DB: 23.1
DG: 19.8

Offensive Rating:
DB: 127.3
DG: 118.4

FG Pct:
DB: 59.3%
DG: 56.1%

Effective FG Pct:
DB: 59.3%
DG: 56%

FT Pct:
DB: 60.5%
DG: 75.5%

Free Throw Rate:
DB: 42.5
DG: 67.5

Rebounds per 40:
DB: 18.2
DG: 10.9

Rebounding Pct:
DB: 23.7% (o) 27.7% (d)
DG: 15.7% (o) 14.9% (o)

Assists per 40:
DB: 1.8
DG: 1.5

A/TO Ratio:
DB: 1.0
DG: 0.6

Steals per 40:
DB: 2.3
DG: 1.6

Steal Pct:
DB: 3.3
DG: 2.3

Blocks per 40:
DB: 1.4
DG: 0.4

Block Pct:
DB: 3.8%
DG: 0.9%

Turnovers per 40:
DB: 1.8
DG: 2.6

Turnover Pct:
DB: 10.6%
DG: 15.7%

Fouls per 40:
DB: 4.0
DG: 5.4

I love me some Davante Gardner. But Blair destroys him. You can say they have similar builds and similar styles of play, but Blair was and always will be the better college sophomore.

Is the debate over now?
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 17, 2014, 07:49:49 PM
Gardner could have played 6 more minutes a game as a sophomore - it would have been just fine.  Just like he could have played 30 minutes a game last season...but Buzz chose not to.  It was discussed in length here about what Gardner's ORatings were in games he played more than 30 minutes versus those he played less - and as I recall his O-Rating was better in the games he played more than 30, than those he didn't....but then those of you who just disagree to disagree..then grasp at the next straws and try to find other arguments to support your false position...and then I think it became..well in games Gardner played back to back 30+minutes his O Rating was less...he needed more time to recover, etc...and that wasn't exactly true either.

I could maybe accept the argument for Davante playing 30 minutes a game as a senior. But not as a sophomore. Davante was about 30 pounds heavier and had much less conditioning. Do you remember watching him try to get back on defense when he was an underclassman?

You've brought up Davante needing 30 minutes a game last season a couple of times. Do you know how few of teams have their starting center on the court for 30 or more minutes a game? It's a vast minority. And do you know how many of those teams that did have their starting center averaging 30 minutes a game or more had a center that is 290 lbs or heavier? The answer is zero. I'm not saying that Davante couldn't have done it. I definitely agree that Davante could go over 30 minutes from time to time and still be effective. But it seems that conventional wisdom suggests that consistently playing a center for 30+ minutes a game is not a wise strategy.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: We R Final Four on July 17, 2014, 07:50:17 PM
I see Vander Blue out there taking a bunch of "Im going for mine" Shots..... Today for the Spurs Summer League team...
Isn't that what summer league is?
VB is on the outside looking in, so his best chance to get noticed is to go 7/8 from the field......and catch some GM's eye.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: brandx on July 17, 2014, 08:41:07 PM
Let's do that.



Physical stats
DB: 6"7, 265, 19 years old, more atheltic
DG: 6"8, 290, 19 years old, less athletic


Blair measured 6'5.25" inches at combine - further demonstrating how superior he is to Davante playing close to the basket.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on July 17, 2014, 08:48:35 PM
I see Vander Blue out there taking a bunch of "Im going for mine" Shots..... Today for the Spurs Summer League team...
You mean the game where he went 2-4 from the field and 5-7 from the line? Yeah, he went nuts... ::)
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: MU82 on July 17, 2014, 09:34:36 PM
Let's do that.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2011-2012&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

Physical stats
DB: 6"7, 265, 19 years old, more atheltic
DG: 6"8, 290, 19 years old, less athletic

Minutes Per Game:
DB: 27.2
DG: 19.1

Points Per 40:
DB: 23.1
DG: 19.8

Offensive Rating:
DB: 127.3
DG: 118.4

FG Pct:
DB: 59.3%
DG: 56.1%

Effective FG Pct:
DB: 59.3%
DG: 56%

FT Pct:
DB: 60.5%
DG: 75.5%

Free Throw Rate:
DB: 42.5
DG: 67.5

Rebounds per 40:
DB: 18.2
DG: 10.9

Rebounding Pct:
DB: 23.7% (o) 27.7% (d)
DG: 15.7% (o) 14.9% (o)

Assists per 40:
DB: 1.8
DG: 1.5

A/TO Ratio:
DB: 1.0
DG: 0.6

Steals per 40:
DB: 2.3
DG: 1.6

Steal Pct:
DB: 3.3
DG: 2.3

Blocks per 40:
DB: 1.4
DG: 0.4

Block Pct:
DB: 3.8%
DG: 0.9%

Turnovers per 40:
DB: 1.8
DG: 2.6

Turnover Pct:
DB: 10.6%
DG: 15.7%

Fouls per 40:
DB: 4.0
DG: 5.4

I love me some Davante Gardner. But Blair destroys him. You can say they have similar builds and similar styles of play, but Blair was and always will be the better college sophomore.

Is the debate over now?

Oh, TAMU ... you and your pesky stats and facts and stuff.

No! Davante is the greatest player ever!!! So there!
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: NersEllenson on July 17, 2014, 09:36:14 PM
Let's do that.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2011-2012&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

Physical stats
DB: 6"7, 265, 19 years old, more atheltic
DG: 6"8, 290, 19 years old, less athletic

Minutes Per Game:
DB: 27.2
DG: 19.1

Points Per 40:
DB: 23.1
DG: 19.8

Offensive Rating:
DB: 127.3
DG: 118.4

FG Pct:
DB: 59.3%
DG: 56.1%

Effective FG Pct:
DB: 59.3%
DG: 56%

FT Pct:
DB: 60.5%
DG: 75.5%

Free Throw Rate:
DB: 42.5
DG: 67.5

Rebounds per 40:
DB: 18.2
DG: 10.9

Rebounding Pct:
DB: 23.7% (o) 27.7% (d)
DG: 15.7% (o) 14.9% (o)

Assists per 40:
DB: 1.8
DG: 1.5

A/TO Ratio:
DB: 1.0
DG: 0.6

Steals per 40:
DB: 2.3
DG: 1.6

Steal Pct:
DB: 3.3
DG: 2.3

Blocks per 40:
DB: 1.4
DG: 0.4

Block Pct:
DB: 3.8%
DG: 0.9%

Turnovers per 40:
DB: 1.8
DG: 2.6

Turnover Pct:
DB: 10.6%
DG: 15.7%

Fouls per 40:
DB: 4.0
DG: 5.4

I love me some Davante Gardner. But Blair destroys him. You can say they have similar builds and similar styles of play, but Blair was and always will be the better college sophomore.

Is the debate over now?

Good stuff...and my bad on the recollection of side by side sophomore to sophomore...when I looked..it was Gardner as a Junior to Blair as a sophomore - which is where I derived the 200 minute difference...when in reality the difference between their sophomore year's was over 400 minute disparity...and as a result...I think it further makes for the comparison to be not as statistically relevant.  

Here is a link to Gardner as a Senior to Blair as as sophmore - only use it because Gardner got 850 minutes as a senior..the most in his career....Blair still got 100 more for the year at 952...but this and Davante's Junior year tell a different story...

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2013-2014&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: wadesworld on July 17, 2014, 09:40:25 PM
Let's do that.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2011-2012&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

Physical stats
DB: 6"7, 265, 19 years old, more atheltic
DG: 6"8, 290, 19 years old, less athletic

Minutes Per Game:
DB: 27.2
DG: 19.1

Points Per 40:
DB: 23.1
DG: 19.8

Offensive Rating:
DB: 127.3
DG: 118.4

FG Pct:
DB: 59.3%
DG: 56.1%

Effective FG Pct:
DB: 59.3%
DG: 56%

FT Pct:
DB: 60.5%
DG: 75.5%

Free Throw Rate:
DB: 42.5
DG: 67.5

Rebounds per 40:
DB: 18.2
DG: 10.9

Rebounding Pct:
DB: 23.7% (o) 27.7% (d)
DG: 15.7% (o) 14.9% (o)

Assists per 40:
DB: 1.8
DG: 1.5

A/TO Ratio:
DB: 1.0
DG: 0.6

Steals per 40:
DB: 2.3
DG: 1.6

Steal Pct:
DB: 3.3
DG: 2.3

Blocks per 40:
DB: 1.4
DG: 0.4

Block Pct:
DB: 3.8%
DG: 0.9%

Turnovers per 40:
DB: 1.8
DG: 2.6

Turnover Pct:
DB: 10.6%
DG: 15.7%

Fouls per 40:
DB: 4.0
DG: 5.4

I love me some Davante Gardner. But Blair destroys him. You can say they have similar builds and similar styles of play, but Blair was and always will be the better college sophomore.

Is the debate over now?

Like Ners said, we are all grasping at straws here, TAMU.  Give it up, Ners played high school basketball.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: wadesworld on July 17, 2014, 09:43:50 PM
Good stuff...and my bad on the recollection of side by side sophomore to sophomore...when I looked..it was Gardner as a Junior to Blair as a sophomore - which is where I derived the 200 minute difference...when in reality the difference between their sophomore year's was over 400 minute disparity...and as a result...I think it further makes for the comparison to be not as statistically relevant.  

Here is a link to Gardner as a Senior to Blair as as sophmore - only use it because Gardner got 850 minutes as a senior..the most in his career....Blair still got 100 more for the year at 952...but this and Davante's Junior year tell a different story...

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2013-2014&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

Dear Lord, talk about grasping at straws.  Why not just bring up Davante's junior year at Marquette vs. Blair's 7th grade middle school stats?  What the flying eff.  You say a few posts ago that everyone in their right mind who says Blair was a much better college player just jumps from one argument to the next as you factually prove them wrong, and you, fighting alone, go from "sophomore to sophomore per 40 minute stats because that's more factually equal" to "junior to sophomore per 40 minutes because the minutes are closer" to "the minutes aren't close enough, which is why the per 40 minutes aren't relevant" to "sophomore to senior per 40."  Keep on trying Ners.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: MU82 on July 17, 2014, 09:49:57 PM
How 'bout this stat:

Blair drafted despite shot knees.

Davante not even an afterthought of any NBA GM.

Let's start arguing Grant Hill vs. Jamil next.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: NersEllenson on July 17, 2014, 09:50:31 PM
Dear Lord, talk about grasping at straws.  Why not just bring up Davante's junior year at Marquette vs. Blair's 7th grade middle school stats?  What the flying eff.  You say a few posts ago that everyone in their right mind who says Blair was a much better college player just jumps from one argument to the next as you factually prove them wrong, and you, fighting alone, go from "sophomore to sophomore per 40 minute stats because that's more factually equal" to "junior to sophomore per 40 minutes because the minutes are closer" to "the minutes aren't close enough, which is why the per 40 minutes aren't relevant" to "sophomore to senior per 40."  Keep on trying Ners.

As I explained....when I made the original comment...about them being alike the numbers I looked at where based off of Blair's sophomore year...and Gardner's Junior year.  That is when there was the 200 minute disparity I mentioned...and it was in that year that the two players look pretty identical..other than rebounding...which I've never for a second tried to assert Gardner was nearly as good...

And no...I never said  "You say a few posts ago that everyone in their right mind who says Blair was a much better college player just jumps from one argument to the next as you factually prove them wrong,"  I said..."it was discussed in length here about what Gardner's ORatings were in games he played more than 30 minutes versus those he played less - and as I recall his O-Rating was better in the games he played more than 30, than those he didn't....but then those of you who just disagree to disagree..then grasp at the next straws and try to find other arguments to support your false position...and then I think it became..well in games Gardner played back to back 30+minutes his O Rating was less...he needed more time to recover, etc...and that wasn't exactly true either.

If you can just chill out, as I know you get a major hard on if you can find a point of mine that makes me wrong....read the comments in their proper context...
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Texas Western on July 17, 2014, 10:06:11 PM
You failed to realize Blair averaged 6 more minutes a game...more than 200 more minutes for the season.  Their Points per 40 minutes were virtually identical.  You give Gardner 200 more minutes and the numbers get even more favorable as far as FTA...

I don't dispute that Blair is a better rebounder at all.

Yeah...I saw Blair play a lot at Pitt and he was not a great athlete, nor very explosive to the rim at Pitt.  He's evolved into a better athlete as he's gotten into the pros and put the work in.  

Sorry, I'm just not ready to throw the towel in on Davante standing no chance to make the league....if he can get super dedicated in his conditioning....and stick with it for a couple of years in the D-League...he might make it....but...it's going to take a lot of discipline on his part.
I agree with you that if Davante is disciplined and works on his conditioning he may eventually earn a spot. It is a long shot for sure. The nice thing about the summer league is it shows Davante exactly what he has to do to make it. He has to be willing to put in the hard work.He brings some nice assets to the game but he has to eliminate his negatives.  No one said it was going to be easy.  He has to want it though. Wanting it means a commitment to defense and rebounding. I don't know if Europe or the D League is the better venue to hone these aspects of his game.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: forgetful on July 17, 2014, 10:12:55 PM
Good stuff...and my bad on the recollection of side by side sophomore to sophomore...when I looked..it was Gardner as a Junior to Blair as a sophomore - which is where I derived the 200 minute difference...when in reality the difference between their sophomore year's was over 400 minute disparity...and as a result...I think it further makes for the comparison to be not as statistically relevant.  

Here is a link to Gardner as a Senior to Blair as as sophmore - only use it because Gardner got 850 minutes as a senior..the most in his career....Blair still got 100 more for the year at 952...but this and Davante's Junior year tell a different story...

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2013-2014&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

Even Sophomore to Junior, Blair is the much better player:

Pts per 40:
Blair   23.11
DG     21.5

Rb per 40:
Blair   18.2
DG      9.0

Assists per 40:
Blair    1.8
DG      1.7

Steals per 40:
Blair   2.3
DG     1.2

Blks per 40:
Blair   1.4
DG     1.1

TO's per 40:
Blair    1.8
DG      2.9

DG wins still on FT's but that is it, and he had an additional year of maturity and experience.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: NersEllenson on July 17, 2014, 10:32:10 PM
Even Sophomore to Junior, Blair is the much better player:

Pts per 40:
Blair   23.11
DG     21.5

Rb per 40:
Blair   18.2
DG      9.0

Assists per 40:
Blair    1.8
DG      1.7

Steals per 40:
Blair   2.3
DG     1.2

Blks per 40:
Blair   1.4
DG     1.1

TO's per 40:
Blair    1.8
DG      2.9

DG wins still on FT's but that is it, and he had an additional year of maturity and experience.

The only area Blair is MUCH better than Gardner is rebounding.  Those other difference above are so miniscule...and that's the point...they were very similar players in college. Gardner always has been able to draw fouls at a higher rate than DeJuan Blair ever did...and then of course Gardner shoots those FTS at a much better percentage.  YOu could argue thatfor as big as the disparity is between Blair's rebounding ability and Gardners...so is Garnder's ability to draw fouls and get to the FT line compared to Blair.  Both of those qualities have high value - ability to rebound...and ability to draw fouls...

I'm not trying to argue if Blair is the better player.  He got drafted.  Been in the league 5 years.  Gardner has a long way to go.  I'm simply saying it isn't totally inconceivable...that is all.

Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: 77ncaachamps on July 18, 2014, 12:00:57 AM
Dang. Sucks for Blair.

Gets to the Finals with Spurs. Loses to Miami.

Year after, signs with Dallas. Spurs win Title.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: forgetful on July 18, 2014, 12:32:11 AM
The only area Blair is MUCH better than Gardner is rebounding.  Those other difference above are so miniscule...and that's the point...they were very similar players in college. Gardner always has been able to draw fouls at a higher rate than DeJuan Blair ever did...and then of course Gardner shoots those FTS at a much better percentage.  YOu could argue thatfor as big as the disparity is between Blair's rebounding ability and Gardners...so is Garnder's ability to draw fouls and get to the FT line compared to Blair.  Both of those qualities have high value - ability to rebound...and ability to draw fouls...

I'm not trying to argue if Blair is the better player.  He got drafted.  Been in the league 5 years.  Gardner has a long way to go.  I'm simply saying it isn't totally inconceivable...that is all.



You do realize that he also has twice the number of steals, 30% more blocks and only 60% of the TO's right.  Those are all MUCH better.  Those alone account for 2.5 additional possessions per game.

But I'll agree, not totally inconceivable, but damn unlikely.  The point is though that the Blair comparison is ridiculous. 
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Nevada233 on July 18, 2014, 08:15:14 AM
You mean the game where he went 2-4 from the field and 5-7 from the line? Yeah, he went nuts... ::)

Who was counting lol. I only seen him play like 2-4 minutes and didnt pass once lol. His best chance to make it to the league woulda been last year as a Senior thru MU. 
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 18, 2014, 09:02:19 AM
How 'bout this stat:

Blair drafted despite shot knees.

Davante not even an afterthought of any NBA GM.

Let's start arguing Grant Hill vs. Jamil next.


Derrick vs. Kidd would be about right, hey?
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Brewtown Andy on July 18, 2014, 09:18:01 AM
Who was counting lol. I only seen him play like 2-4 minutes and didnt pass once lol. His best chance to make it to the league woulda been last year as a Senior thru MU. 

Depending on your definition of "make it."  He has actually played in regular season NBA games already.
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: MUDPT on July 19, 2014, 11:32:38 AM
Buycks expected to be released by the Raptors, but to be pursued by other teams.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/234360/Raptors-To-Release-Dwight-Buycks
Title: Re: NBA Summer League
Post by: Texas Western on July 20, 2014, 01:39:18 PM
Buycks expected to be released by the Raptors, but to be pursued by other teams.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/234360/Raptors-To-Release-Dwight-Buycks
Who are the likely candidates?