NBA Summer League

[JustinLewisFanClubPres]

Oh, then I'll go with Davante ... providing the team he goes to plays 40 or so games against the Mavs. Because he'd foul out Dirk every time.

Classic.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Oh, then I'll go with Davante ... providing the team he goes to plays 40 or so games against the Mavs. Because he'd foul out Dirk every time.

[NersEllenson]

Oh, then I'll go with Davante ... providing the team he goes to plays 40 or so games against the Mavs. Because he'd foul out Dirk every time.

That point was made with regard to someone saying Davante doesn't stand a chance in the league as he'd have to guard guys like Dirk...and no way he could....point was Dirk couldn't guard Davante on the low block either.  It goes two ways.  Davante is extremely difficult to stop 1 on 1 no matter who you put on him..and put him on a team with pros, guys who can shoot at all positions and space the floor...he's a load down low.

But...I appreciate your attempt at humor...

[wadesworld]

That point was made with regard to someone saying Davante doesn't stand a chance in the league as he'd have to guard guys like Dirk...and no way he could....point was Dirk couldn't guard Davante on the low block either.  It goes two ways.  Davante is extremely difficult to stop 1 on 1 no matter who you put on him..and put him on a team with pros, guys who can shoot at all positions and space the floor...he's a load down low.

But...I appreciate your attempt at humor...

If a starting PF in the NBA could not stop Davante Gardner from scoring on him every time down the floor, or if Davante Gardner could foul out a starting power forward in the NBA in 20 minutes, Danavte Gardner would have been a 1st round NBA Draft pick this year.  Instead, he will never even see an NBA contract.  I'm fairly confident in saying that if Dirk was able to guard guys like Tim Duncan, Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Blake Griffin, and Zach Randolph, he'd do alright guarding a guy who will never see an NBA court.

[NersEllenson]

If a starting PF in the NBA could not stop Davante Gardner from scoring on him every time down the floor, or if Davante Gardner could foul out a starting power forward in the NBA in 20 minutes, Danavte Gardner would have been a 1st round NBA Draft pick this year.  Instead, he will never even see an NBA contract.  I'm fairly confident in saying that if Dirk was able to guard guys like Tim Duncan, Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Blake Griffin, and Zach Randolph, he'd do alright guarding a guy who will never see an NBA court.

Fair point.  Yet, it still wouldn't surprise me to see DG make an NBA team at some point in his career.  He is a very unique player.  Crafty is an understatement.  Not many guys out there like him.  I suspect if he gets some decent minutes with Bulls Summer League team - you will see him post high O-Rating numbers as he did in college, be very efficient....hell in his first game he got 3 or 4 minutes...scored 4 points and drew a foul...standard Davante type of line.  Albeit , sounds like it was in garbage time..

[wadesworld]

Fair point.  Yet, it still wouldn't surprise me to see DG make an NBA team at some point in his career.  He is a very unique player.  Crafty is an understatement.  Not many guys out there like him.  I suspect if he gets some decent minutes with Bulls Summer League team - you will see him post high O-Rating numbers as he did in college, be very efficient....hell in his first game he got 3 or 4 minutes...scored 4 points and drew a foul...standard Davante type of line.  Albeit , sounds like it was in garbage time..

I agree he is very crafty and has really good feet for a guy with his build.  But he is only like 6'6" (truly).  If he was 6'9" he might have a chance, but I think he would struggle with the taller defenders he would see every time down the court.

[Texas Western]

Fair point.  Yet, it still wouldn't surprise me to see DG make an NBA team at some point in his career.  He is a very unique player.  Crafty is an understatement.  Not many guys out there like him.  I suspect if he gets some decent minutes with Bulls Summer League team - you will see him post high O-Rating numbers as he did in college, be very efficient....hell in his first game he got 3 or 4 minutes...scored 4 points and drew a foul...standard Davante type of line.  Albeit , sounds like it was in garbage time..

I agree with you on his unique abilities. In addition, I have always felt the NBA is  also in the entertainment business and from the stand point of the fans, a team would be better served having a guy like Davante fill the last spot on the roster than some unknown stiff from Europe. He could pretty quickly generate a following.

[brandx]

If a starting PF in the NBA could not stop Davante Gardner from scoring on him every time down the floor, or if Davante Gardner could foul out a starting power forward in the NBA in 20 minutes, Danavte Gardner would have been a 1st round NBA Draft pick this year.  Instead, he will never even see an NBA contract.  I'm fairly confident in saying that if Dirk was able to guard guys like Tim Duncan, Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Blake Griffin, and Zach Randolph, he'd do alright guarding a guy who will never see an NBA court.

Agree 100%.

Dirk would destroy Gardner on both ends of the floor.

[wadesworld]

I agree with you on his unique abilities. In addition, I have always felt the NBA is  also in the entertainment business and from the stand point of the fans, a team would be better served having a guy like Davante fill the last spot on the roster than some unknown stiff from Europe. He could pretty quickly generate a following.

I usually agree with just about everything you say but we definitely disagree here. How many 13th men on NBA rosters generate tickets? Even if it was Gardner in Milwaukee, maybe for the 1st 5 games of his first season the Bucks would sell a few extra tickets to MU fans hoping to see Gardner, until they realize they'll never see him after layup lines and that ends pretty quickly. No need to waste a roster spot, guys who get 0 minutes/game don't sell tickets regardless of who they are.

[4everwarriors]

Thing is Nowitzke et al would leave Gardner in their wake.

[forgetful]

That point was made with regard to someone saying Davante doesn't stand a chance in the league as he'd have to guard guys like Dirk...and no way he could....point was Dirk couldn't guard Davante on the low block either.  It goes two ways.  Davante is extremely difficult to stop 1 on 1 no matter who you put on him..and put him on a team with pros, guys who can shoot at all positions and space the floor...he's a load down low.

But...I appreciate your attempt at humor...

There are countless guys in the NBA that could guard Davante.  The problem is there are next to none that he could guard.

[NersEllenson]

There are countless guys in the NBA that could guard Davante.  The problem is there are next to none that he could guard.

Okay...I just feel Gardner was pretty darn effective at the highest level of college ball as a junior - against Gorgi Dieng, Greg Monroe, and a number of other guys in the NBA that he squared off against in the Big East - when guarded 1 on 1. 

So I assume you don't think he'll stand a chance of making an NBA team ever, correct?

[tower912]

Davante could make the team in 40 lbs., the development of a left hand, a counter move, and quicker feet.   As written elsewhere, your NBA position is dictated by who you can guard.   Right now, I can't think of anyone he could effectively guard.   6'7 with slow feet does not get you into the league.   And Davante tended to struggle getting his shot off against athletic big men, a la Florida.   I think you overvalue his unique skill set.

http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/sl_davante_gardner/

But he did get 4 pts in 2 minutes in his first summer league action. 

[MU82]

Zero chance for Gardner. Wait ... I'll amend that. Less than 1% chance.

Always gotta leave myself an out!

The very few players in NBA history who had similar bodies were incredible rebounders (Unseld), explosive leapers (Blair) or taller (6-foot-8).

I can think of no situation in which an NBA team would have Davante on the roster. The only handful of folks who might disagree with that are Marquette fans who regularly disagree with every GM in the league and think our guys should be there.

[Lennys Tap]

I loved Davante, but the NBA? Somebody's stolen Grandma's medical marijuana. Chris Otule's size and strength gave him fits for Godsakes. He would have opposing centers salivating in the NBA.

[NersEllenson]

I loved Davante, but the NBA? Somebody's stolen Grandma's medical marijuana. Chris Otule's size and strength gave him fits for Godsakes. He would have opposing centers salivating in the NBA.

LOL - I understand he isn't prototypical - but he's very talented.  Funny that Otule gave Gardner fits, yet Gardner got way more minutes than Otule?  Hmm.  Interesting.  Gardner's D may leave a lot to be desired....but he is such an incredibly efficient Offensive player...and it is much easier to impact a game being an offensive force, than it is defensively....which is why Davante got  nearly twice the minutes Otule did.  The same should have applied to Burton last season...especially since Buzz was so hell bent on starting a backcourt incredibly limited offensively.

And btw...where did you hear Otule's size and strength gave him fits? 

[GGGG]

LOL - I understand he isn't prototypical - but he's very talented.  Funny that Otule gave Gardner fits, yet Gardner got way more minutes than Otule?  Hmm.  Interesting.  Gardner's D may leave a lot to be desired....but he is such an incredibly efficient Offensive player...and it is much easier to impact a game being an offensive force, than it is defensively....which is why Davante got  nearly twice the minutes Otule did.  The same should have applied to Burton last season...especially since Buzz was so hell bent on starting a backcourt incredibly limited offensively.

Why, why, why...why do you have to default to this kind of stuff?  Just stick to the topic.

I agree that Gardner has a different offensive skill set that served him well in college.  But I think an NBA team isn't going to be running him post up sets because that's not what NBA offenses do any longer.  

Ever is a long time, but I would be surprised if he makes the NBA.  Too short and doesn't have the speed to make up for it.

[forgetful]

Okay...I just feel Gardner was pretty darn effective at the highest level of college ball as a junior - against Gorgi Dieng, Greg Monroe, and a number of other guys in the NBA that he squared off against in the Big East - when guarded 1 on 1. 

So I assume you don't think he'll stand a chance of making an NBA team ever, correct?

The problem is he was a good, not great, offensive player in college.  That would equate to average at best in the NBA.  Meanwhile he was a poor college defender.  That makes him pretty much unplayable in the NBA unless he improves his D dramatically.

In the end that is a recipe for playing overseas.  As far as never making a roster.  Never is a strong word, he does have some unique skills, if he busts his ass off to fix all his weaknesses he could make a roster some day.  I don't see that happening anytime soon however, if ever.

[Lennys Tap]

And btw...where did you hear Otule's size and strength gave him fits? 

Saw it with my own eyes at open scrimmages over the years. The last time was Midnight Madness last year. Davante struggled on both ends of the court, eventually moved outside on offense and shot jump/set shots. Chris probably benefitted from knowing all of Davante's favorite moves, but scouts in the NBA will expose you too. IMO he would be overwhelmed physically on the inside in the NBA.

[Texas Western]

Tonight Davante had no points no board in 3:09. He missed a 3 pointer. By comparison Doug McDermott had 31 points.
http://www.nba.com/games/20140713/CHIDEN/gameinfo.html

[NersEllenson]

Saw it with my own eyes at open scrimmages over the years. The last time was Midnight Madness last year. Davante struggled on both ends of the court, eventually moved outside on offense and shot jump/set shots. Chris probably benefitted from knowing all of Davante's favorite moves, but scouts in the NBA will expose you too. IMO he would be overwhelmed physically on the inside in the NBA.

Midnight Madness is hardly a place to make such evaluations - it is a free for all - generally played in transition, and FAR different from what you'll see during a true game environment.  Davante floating to the outside was more a function of Davante having fun, and wanting to be a guard at heart...than it was to do with Otule stopping him.

But still...if Otule was such a defensive force that he were able to shut Davante down (which I don't believe to be true for a minute)...then why do you feel Davante got twice the minutes Chris did?  And we know Otule is Buzz's guy...you'd think for as much as Buzz LOVED Chris...if it was even close...those minutes would have been split 50/50 right?

[NersEllenson]

The problem is he was a good, not great, offensive player in college.  That would equate to average at best in the NBA.  Meanwhile he was a poor college defender.  That makes him pretty much unplayable in the NBA unless he improves his D dramatically.

In the end that is a recipe for playing overseas.  As far as never making a roster.  Never is a strong word, he does have some unique skills, if he busts his ass off to fix all his weaknesses he could make a roster some day.  I don't see that happening anytime soon however, if ever.

Here is a side by side comparison of DeJuan Blair and Gardner - granted Blair's numbers were as a sophomore...and I chose to use Gardner's as a Junior as he was playing with better teammates...though his senior numbers were virtually the same...Blair was able to get drafted after leaving early and has found a role on an NBA team...and the two are not THAT different...but Blair is a better rebounder..

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2012-2013&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

You are probably right on DG not making an NBA team at any point...yet if someone gave me 10 to 1 odds, maybe 7 to 1 odds....I'd probably bet $100 on it.  Think his chances are probably between 10-30%. 

I do disagree though with you, in that I feel Davante was a great offensive player in college.  His ability to draw fouls was incredible, as was his ability to finish around the basket.

[MU82]

Here is a side by side comparison of DeJuan Blair and Gardner - granted Blair's numbers were as a sophomore...and I chose to use Gardner's as a Junior as he was playing with better teammates...though his senior numbers were virtually the same...Blair was able to get drafted after leaving early and has found a role on an NBA team...and the two are not THAT different...but Blair is a better rebounder..

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2012-2013&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

You are probably right on DG not making an NBA team at any point...yet if someone gave me 10 to 1 odds, maybe 7 to 1 odds....I'd probably bet $100 on it.  Think his chances are probably between 10-30%. 

I do disagree though with you, in that I feel Davante was a great offensive player in college.  His ability to draw fouls was incredible, as was his ability to finish around the basket.

Gardner and Blair are significantly different. Throw away the numbers. Have you ever seen Blair play?

Blair is fast for a big man and explosive to the rim. I can think of two occasions in which the underside of the rim blocked Davante on a pathetic dunk attempt. Blair is an athlete. Please.

Look, I hate to keep running down Davante. He was a nice player for us, a key contributor to S16-S16-E8. He is not an NBA player. There's no shame in that.

[forgetful]

Here is a side by side comparison of DeJuan Blair and Gardner - granted Blair's numbers were as a sophomore...and I chose to use Gardner's as a Junior as he was playing with better teammates...though his senior numbers were virtually the same...Blair was able to get drafted after leaving early and has found a role on an NBA team...and the two are not THAT different...but Blair is a better rebounder..

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=davante-gardner&davante-gardner=2012-2013&i=1&p1=dejuan-blair

You are probably right on DG not making an NBA team at any point...yet if someone gave me 10 to 1 odds, maybe 7 to 1 odds....I'd probably bet $100 on it.  Think his chances are probably between 10-30%. 

I do disagree though with you, in that I feel Davante was a great offensive player in college.  His ability to draw fouls was incredible, as was his ability to finish around the basket.

The stats between the two really aren't remotely close.  Blair beats Gardner by a considerable margin in all categories except FT shooting.

Blair averaged 16 pts and 12 rbs per game, and outperformed Gardner on defense by a wide margin.

Gardner averaged 12 pts and 5 rbs.

[DSEEagle]

If anyone watched the summer league game tonight  then this conversation would be over. I was embarrassed watching Davante. In his 3 minutes he could barely get up and down the court. He got burned on defense twice and fouled once. He hoisted a 3 which was a brick. End of story. That being said...loved the guy in an MU uniform.