Now the fun with Lebron starts, and the epic hypocrisy by fans. Delicious

[Henry Sugar]

Wait are you saying please not melo or Kevin love or not melo and yes Kevin love?

Anyways I don't want Lebron because those championships would be forever associated purely with him not the team or franchise.  Plus I take pride in having one of the least floppy teams.  Also I want the Lebron era to end and make way for a new age whether that's rose, durant, Irving, wall or whomever. 

I would be furious if the Bulls got Melo. Melo is the definition of a player that is over-rated simply because he scores points. For his career, Anthony is an average player. My only (slim) hope would be that Thibs keeps Melo's game in check.

I would be ecstatic if the Bulls got Love. Love is the definition of a player that is under-rated simply because he does a lot of other very good things besides score points. I think Love is a top 5-10 NBA player.

[WarriorInNYC]

I would be furious if the Bulls got Melo. Melo is the definition of a player that is over-rated simply because he scores points. For his career, Anthony is an average player. My only (slim) hope would be that Thibs keeps Melo's game in check.

I would be ecstatic if the Bulls got Love. Love is the definition of a player that is under-rated simply because he does a lot of other very good things besides score points. I think Love is a top 5-10 NBA player.

The several Knicks fans that I know that watch the games a lot are ecstatic that Melo is leaving.

[Galway Eagle]

But your signature isn't even to 2015 yet.  Don't you need to wait until 2020's, or else you will need to mock up an entirely new graphic

In all honesty now that the play offs are over I'll have a new one very soon.  

That's gonna be a while.  

I was reading a grantland (love that site) about the evolution of Lebron's game and they mentioned how technical and efficient his footwork is and as he gets older and begins to lose his athleticism he will begin to use his size and footwork and develop into one of the better post-players in the game.

Barring injury, his era will still be around for quite a few years.

I agree he'll be around for awhile, I don't doubt that.  But as far as him being a dynasty player that's what I'm looking for to end.  Personally I also kind of think Durant is fast on Lebron's heels so I'm not sure how much longer he'll be 'far and away the best player on the planet'.  

I would be furious if the Bulls got Melo. Melo is the definition of a player that is over-rated simply because he scores points. For his career, Anthony is an average player. My only (slim) hope would be that Thibs keeps Melo's game in check.

I would be ecstatic if the Bulls got Love. Love is the definition of a player that is under-rated simply because he does a lot of other very good things besides score points. I think Love is a top 5-10 NBA player.

Gotcha, I completely agree and just wanted to make sure I was reading it right before saying something like '+100'  

[Lennys Tap]

Like you with a certain ex coach....LOL.   You take the cake.

I have a great deal of distaste for that guy. One of a handful of guys I know a lot about whom I really don't like. And I've never been anything but honest and forthright about how I feel.

You? Not so much. Claim to think Crean is a douche while writing thousands of posts defending him on every level, personal and professional. You've carried enough water for him to fill Lake Michigan - normal people don't do that for people they think is a douche. Period.

[jesmu84]

I guess I just don't understand the point of this thread. Fanbases are hypocritical? Fanbases are biased? Fanbases can be butt-hurt? All truths. For every fanbase, ever. So, why need to point out the Lakers or Bulls or Cavs or whoever else? Is there some personal bias or selectivity going on?

[Lennys Tap]

I guess I just don't understand the point of this thread. Fanbases are hypocritical? Fanbases are biased? Fanbases can be butt-hurt? All truths. For every fanbase, ever. So, why need to point out the Lakers or Bulls or Cavs or whoever else? Is there some personal bias or selectivity going on?

Bingo. Thread was just an excuse for another "Look at me" rant. Silly.

[CTWarrior]

I would be furious if the Bulls got Melo. Melo is the definition of a player that is over-rated simply because he scores points. For his career, Anthony is an average player. My only (slim) hope would be that Thibs keeps Melo's game in check.

I would be ecstatic if the Bulls got Love. Love is the definition of a player that is under-rated simply because he does a lot of other very good things besides score points. I think Love is a top 5-10 NBA player.

Henry, my eye test agrees with you.  I don't know how to quantify it, but Carmelo just sucks the life out of his teammates.  It's not just that he shoots a lot.  It's that he dribbles a lot.  He just monopolizes the ball.  He's really talented and can score creatively, but I think if he does win a championship, he'll get one like Bob McAdoo at the end of his career as instant offense of the bench, not as the guy you rely on to take you to the top.

[ChicosBailBonds]

In all honesty now that the play offs are over I'll have a new one very soon.  

Can I recommend the Kobe picture be put in an orange jumpsuit, or something with horizontal stripes?

[DegenerateDish]

Not sure I get the start of this thread, any non meatball Bulls fan would love LeBron and take him in a second.

I don't believe LeBron or Melo end up leaving Miami or NYC. Anthony really loves money, where as LeBron doesn't value it the same way. Be interesting if Knicks offer him low $100's and not the max, would put Anthony in weird situation.

[GGGG]

Henry, my eye test agrees with you.  I don't know how to quantify it, but Carmelo just sucks the life out of his teammates.  It's not just that he shoots a lot.  It's that he dribbles a lot.  He just monopolizes the ball.  He's really talented and can score creatively, but I think if he does win a championship, he'll get one like Bob McAdoo at the end of his career as instant offense of the bench, not as the guy you rely on to take you to the top.

He's a ball stop that doesn't make his teammates better. 

[Silkk the Shaka]

I would be furious if the Bulls got Melo. Melo is the definition of a player that is over-rated simply because he scores points. For his career, Anthony is an average player. My only (slim) hope would be that Thibs keeps Melo's game in check.

I would be ecstatic if the Bulls got Love. Love is the definition of a player that is under-rated simply because he does a lot of other very good things besides score points. I think Love is a top 5-10 NBA player.

1,000% agree with this, and I'm not even a Bulls fan. Melo is the ultimate ball stopper on offense. Just jacks up shots. Love is not the typical guy putting up big numbers on bad teams via volume shooting. He still manages to be efficient even though he's the focal point of the defense. Definitely agree on the top 10 player comment re: Love. He's still really young too.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I guess I just don't understand the point of this thread. Fanbases are hypocritical? Fanbases are biased? Fanbases can be butt-hurt? All truths. For every fanbase, ever. So, why need to point out the Lakers or Bulls or Cavs or whoever else? Is there some personal bias or selectivity going on?

If anything, we can see plenty of butt hurt in this thread and some don't like being called on it.  Some fanbases are a lot worse than others. 

If you don't understand the point of this thread, why chime in?  Plenty of others saw the point, admit the issue or understand the issue.  Its really not that hard.  The most gifted NBA player has decided to opt out.  The fanbases that have done nothing but crap on him the last few years now are trying to get him to come their way.  Someone points out the hypocrisy, others don't like it while others are truthful enough about it and admit it.  Truly, not that hard to digest.  The point is the psychology of it all.  In this very thread, it is alive and well.  Some are conflicted, some want nothing to do with him, some will plug their noses but accept him, others want him no matter what. 

All kinds of viewpoints and opinions.  Thing is, sometimes those viewpoints and opinions don't go over well, then you get labeled as a Chicago hater.  Or they start picking your heroes for you.  Be warned, could happen to you.

[jesmu84]

If anything, we can see plenty of butt hurt in this thread and some don't like being called on it.  Some fanbases are a lot worse than others. 

If you don't understand the point of this thread, why chime in?  Plenty of others saw the point, admit the issue or understand the issue.  Its really not that hard.  The most gifted NBA player has decided to opt out.  The fanbases that have done nothing but crap on him the last few years now are trying to get him to come their way.  Someone points out the hypocrisy, others don't like it while others are truthful enough about it and admit it.  Truly, not that hard to digest.  The point is the psychology of it all.  In this very thread, it is alive and well.  Some are conflicted, some want nothing to do with him, some will plug their noses but accept him, others want him no matter what. 

All kinds of viewpoints and opinions.  Thing is, sometimes those viewpoints and opinions don't go over well, then you get labeled as a Chicago hater.  Or they start picking your heroes for you.  Be warned, could happen to you.

Fair enough

[Silkk the Shaka]

If anything, we can see plenty of butt hurt in this thread and some don't like being called on it.  Some fanbases are a lot worse than others. 

If you don't understand the point of this thread, why chime in?  Plenty of others saw the point, admit the issue or understand the issue.  Its really not that hard.  The most gifted NBA player has decided to opt out.  The fanbases that have done nothing but crap on him the last few years now are trying to get him to come their way.  Someone points out the hypocrisy, others don't like it while others are truthful enough about it and admit it.  Truly, not that hard to digest.  The point is the psychology of it all.  In this very thread, it is alive and well.  Some are conflicted, some want nothing to do with him, some will plug their noses but accept him, others want him no matter what. 

All kinds of viewpoints and opinions.  Thing is, sometimes those viewpoints and opinions don't go over well, then you get labeled as a Chicago hater.  Or they start picking your heroes for you.  Be warned, could happen to you.

Dude you're a parody of yourself.

[brandx]

I would be furious if the Bulls got Melo. Melo is the definition of a player that is over-rated simply because he scores points. For his career, Anthony is an average player. My only (slim) hope would be that Thibs keeps Melo's game in check.

I would be ecstatic if the Bulls got Love. Love is the definition of a player that is under-rated simply because he does a lot of other very good things besides score points. I think Love is a top 5-10 NBA player.

Comparable to Bosh at same age. Worthy of being an all-star, but not a game changer - as his playoff record indicates

[Galway Eagle]

Comparable to Bosh at same age. Worthy of being an all-star, but not a game changer - as his playoff record indicates

Only one on one I'd take Melo every day over Bosh.  Melo just isn't ever going to be good for a team. You'd need someone like Stockton running point dishing out insane assists to boost Melo.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I have a great deal of distaste for that guy. One of a handful of guys I know a lot about whom I really don't like. And I've never been anything but honest and forthright about how I feel.

You? Not so much. Claim to think Crean is a douche while writing thousands of posts defending him on every level, personal and professional. You've carried enough water for him to fill Lake Michigan - normal people don't do that for people they think is a douche. Period.

You read what you want.  I've ripped him plenty of times, I just don't go to the childhood level you and others do about his wife, his skin color, or whether he kissed his son.  To each their own.  I also happen to know plenty of quality stories about him and people, families that he has helped, etc.  Those are rarely spoken about. 

I've been forthright and honest from the start about him.  You guys get upset when someone dares to bring facts into the conversation, it doesn't sit well with you.  There's a big difference.  Doesn't change that he is a jerk to work for, but it also doesn't change that guys like Wade, Diener, Novak, etc loved playing for him...I realize that doesn't sit well with you, but if someone says it doesn't mean they are defending him, it means they are speaking the truth about him.  Sometimes the truth hurts.  I'm not aware of any civil suits against the university because of his players either.

[DegenerateDish]

I hope whoever the Bucks end up getting can be a franchise changer. Would imagine if Jabari is there at 2, Jazz will try to make an offer to the Bucks to move up and swap picks plus Burke/future pick(s).

[Stringer Bellenson]

While I see what some here are saying regarding Melo being overrated, especially in light of his tenure on the disfunctional Knicks, I think there are some other things to consider. 

The 2 instances Melo had had good coaches and teammates he's been a champion. At Cuse and the US team.  He's been arguably the best international player from the US over the past decade, and if he isn't 1A, he's 1B to Lebron. With the exception of Lebron, Coach K said Carmelo was the most versatile player he's coached (high praise).  Give him competent teammates and a good coach who actually has a plan (the Bulls) and I think we would see the more efficient and focused Melo that wins.  Besides, the Bulls need a volume scorer, not a defensive stopper.  I'll take Melo chucking up shots over Dj Augustin, Nate Robinson, or Captain Kirk chucking up shots any day of the week. 

If people prefer Love, so be it.  I'd take him too; but unlike Love, Melo has dragged some pretty inept teams to the playoffs, both in the east and west all by himself. Love has not.  People are bringing up Duncan and Lebron as comparisons...Lebron has 0 titles without Wade and Bosh. Duncan has never played without some combo of the Admiral, Tony Parker, and Manu and has had maybe the best coach in the game this whole time.  While I understand Melo is perhaps to blame for his predicament of being surrounded with useless teammates by forcing trades and taking a max deal, who is the best player Melo has had as a teammate?  Kenyon Martin?  The gimp version of Amare Stoudemire?  If I'm Melo, better me to be the "ball stopper" than jr smith or whatever other stiffs the Knicks got.

Lebron isn't coming to the bulls, Melo probably won't either, but if he does I sure as hell won't be complaining.  I think he and the Bulls compliment each other well, and Thibs can mask his deficiencies on the defensive end (it's already been reported that Thibs says he can make it work).  It's been proven the bulls won't win as constructed, and adding Aaron Afflalo sure isn't gonna change that.

[brandx]

I hope whoever the Bucks end up getting can be a franchise changer. Would imagine if Jabari is there at 2, Jazz will try to make an offer to the Bucks to move up and swap picks plus Burke/future pick(s).

That's why I am hoping for Wiggins or even still, Embiid.

I think Parker will be a very nice NBA player, but all the comparisons I've seen by GMs are either Melo or the Big Dog. Good players, but not franchise players.

Wiggins and Embiid both possess a bigger flop possibility, but also the ability to become franchise players who can lead a team for a long time. They are very hard to find - probably only two in the league right now with LJ and KD. Don't think Kobe and Duncan are there anymore.

[brandx]

If people prefer Love, so be it.  I'd take him too; but unlike Love, Melo has dragged some pretty inept teams to the playoffs, both in the east and west all by himself. Love has not.  People are bringing up Duncan and Lebron as comparisons...Lebron has 0 titles without Wade and Bosh. Duncan has never played without some combo of the Admiral, Tony Parker, and Manu and has had maybe the best coach in the game this whole time.  While I understand Melo is perhaps to blame for his predicament of being surrounded with useless teammates by forcing trades and taking a max deal, who is the best player Melo has had as a teammate?  Kenyon Martin?  The gimp version of Amare Stoudemire?  If I'm Melo, better me to be the "ball stopper" than jr smith or whatever other stiffs the Knicks got.

I don't understand the point!!

Jordan has 0 titles without Scottie.
Bill Russell has 0 titles without multiple other hall of famers on the team.

Actually, Kobe and DWade are the only 2 guys I can think of in recent years who have basically led a team to a championship with little help.

Kobe had Pau Gasol and Wade had a washed up O'neal

[DegenerateDish]

That's why I am hoping for Wiggins or even still, Embiid.

I think Parker will be a very nice NBA player, but all the comparisons I've seen by GMs are either Melo or the Big Dog. Good players, but not franchise players.

Wiggins and Embiid both possess a bigger flop possibility, but also the ability to become franchise players who can lead a team for a long time. They are very hard to find - probably only two in the league right now with LJ and KD. Don't think Kobe and Duncan are there anymore.

As a Bucks fan, would you take Trey Burke, #5 overall, and a conditional future 1st round swap with the Jazz for the #2 pick? Maybe Embiid is there at 5, and you get a young PG and future asset.

[Stringer Bellenson]

Love is Chris Bosh - best player for a bad team.

That's not a bad thing - Bosh is an 11-time all-star. But you aren't EVER going to win a championship if either guy is your best player. Same for Carmelo.

These three are not Franchise players, period. With a franchise player - Lebron, Durrant, Duncan - you always expect to be in the playoffs and generally expect to have a chance to win it all.

Doesn't apply in any way to guys like Carmelo, Love, or Bosh.

My point is you can't "make your teammates better" if your teammates suck.  Give Carmelo 2 all-stars and a top coach and see how it shakes out before we say he'll never win.  All these "franchise" players you named are surrounded with talented teammates, and the one's with championships have good coaches.  Durant has had talented teammates and still hasn't won.  How can you say it "doesn't apply" to Carmelo when he's never been in a situation that is conducive to winning?  That is my point.  Lebron, Durant, and Duncan's worst supporting casts in their careers are probably the equivalent to Melo's best supporting cast he's had.

[brandx]

As a Bucks fan, would you take Trey Burke, #5 overall, and a conditional future 1st round swap with the Jazz for the #2 pick? Maybe Embiid is there at 5, and you get a young PG and future asset.

Wow, that would be a hard one to turn down. I definitely would if the Cavs take Wiggins and may do it anyway.

[brandx]

My point is you can't "make your teammates better" if your teammates suck.  Give Carmelo 2 all-stars and a top coach and see how it shakes out before we say he'll never win.  All these "franchise" players you named are surrounded with talented teammates, and the one's with championships have good coaches.  Durant has had talented teammates and still hasn't won.  How can you say it "doesn't apply" to Carmelo when he's never been in a situation that is conducive to winning?  That is my point.  Lebron, Durant, and Duncan's worst supporting casts in their careers are probably the equivalent to Melo's best supporting cast he's had.

I can't really argue your points. Melo did have a good coach in Denver but not a good cast.

I just don't think you can plug Melo in anywhere with good players. He's a great score and very good rebounder for a SF, but I don't know how he will fit with guys like Lebron or Derrick or Kobe who also need the ball to be successful. Is Melo willing to give it up for the sake of the team or only pass when he can't get a shot off on his own?

I see him as similar to Glenn Robinson - very good offensive player who doesn't enhance the overall team. But, I think if Melo found his Scottie Pippen who can do everything on both ends while not demanding the ball, his team would be very successful.