"I'm taking the basketball players over the athletes"

[AZWarrior]

With all due respect to the accomplishments of the Japanese community, the long-term effects of the prejudice they've faced in this country vastly pales in comparison to a few centuries of slavery followed by a 100+ years of systematic discrimination that worked to deprive an entire race of their basic civil rights.
The Japanese-American and African-American experiences in the U.S. are not remotely comparable.

--Edited--

They are of course comparable.  You just did.  What you're stating is that they are not equivelent, which I agree with.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

Congrats for all this. I've lived in Bolivia myself. Didn't inform how I feel about race relations in the United States. I currently live in a NY neighborhood in which whites make up 1 in 10 individuals. Doesn't make me feel superior to other people. But that probably has something to do with my own comfortable upbringing, during which I was taught not to assume life circumstances are at exactly the same level of challenging for everybody.

I don't feel superior to anyone either.  Nor does ANYONE here, let alone me, assume that life circumstances are exactly the same.  In fact, I clearly said they weren't.

My point is how we go about with policies, etc.  Do we empower people, which is what I'm suggesting.  Or do we tell them they have no chance, that the world is against them, they shouldn't bother.  And how do you do that without one side screaming racism at the top of their lungs?

[AZWarrior]

I really WANT to believe that.

I'm just not so sure it can be boiled down to that.  

I'm not a big believer in socialism or redistribution of wealth, but the growing wealth gap is a concern to me, and I think the system in it's current form, isn't working as well as it should. We need to make some tweeks.

Guns - with regard to the growing wealth gap you may wish to read this commentary.  You'll likely have to register, but registration's free.

http://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/when-inequality-isnt

[ChicosBailBonds]

You're the only poster who has referenced "preaching" about a "lack of hope" and "inability to succeed." Frankly, I think individuals from tougher backgrounds are generally far stronger and more resilient than those who aren't. And nobody outside of teabaggers ever suggest otherwise.

This has NOTHING to due with work ethic. This has EVERYTHING to due with basic human fairness.

Would you like countless examples of this....I'm happy to provide.  Video and audio and then you can come back and talk about who ever suggested it.

How about this, $50 bet....you win, I'll donate to whatever cause you want.  I produce the evidence, you make the donation to the American Juvenile Diabetes fund.

Game?

[ChicosBailBonds]

"Life isn't fair" is not a satisfactory explanation for anything. If something can be made more fair, it should be.

It's terrific that Japanese Americans have fared well. But they're not inherently harder workers than other ethnic groups. Nor are they "better" in any other way.

To what extent?  Are you going to dumb down the smart people?  Make taller people shorter?  Etc?

It's not fair they are smarter.  It's not fair they are taller.  It's not fair they might be better looking and get a TV news desk job where the ugly guy can't get it.

Life isn't fair.  In the next life, I can't wait to live in unicorn land and make my demands on what everyone else in the world should pay (and I shall pay none, because that is the deal living in unicorn land) to make the world fair.

HARRISON BERGERON by Kurt Vonnegut.

Please read it, takes 10 minutes....all about fairness....what a great short story.

"The year was 2081, and everybody was finally equal....

http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

[Pakuni]

--Edited--

They are of course comparable.  You just did.  What you're stating is that they are not equivelent, which I agree with.  

com·pa·ra·ble
adjective \ˈkäm-p(ə-)rə-bəl also kəm-ˈpa-rə-bəl, -ˈper-ə-\

—used to say that two or more things are very similar and can be compared to each other

1
:  capable of or suitable for comparison
2
:  similar, like <fabrics of comparable quality>


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/comparable

[AZWarrior]

com·pa·ra·ble
adjective \ˈkäm-p(ə-)rə-bəl also kəm-ˈpa-rə-bəl, -ˈper-ə-\

—used to say that two or more things are very similar and can be compared to each other

1
:  capable of or suitable for comparison
2
:  similar, like <fabrics of comparable quality>


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/comparable

Uh-huh.  Two different cultures, both who had been discriminated against, were used as a basis for comparison.  Nothing invalid that I saw.

[Pakuni]

I'd rather not get into a silly debate over the English language, but when one says two things are comparable, it means those things are alike, not that they're capable of being compared.
Anything is capable of being compared. that doesn't mean they're comparable. Only a moron would say "The sun and and my penlight deliver comparable amounts of light."

[keefe]

With all due respect to the accomplishments of the Japanese community, the long-term effects of the prejudice they've faced in this country vastly pales in comparison to a few centuries of slavery followed by a 100+ years of systematic discrimination that worked to deprive an entire race of their basic civil rights.
The Japanese-American and African-American experiences in the U.S. are not remotely comparable.

Who compared the Japanese American experience with anyone? I certainly did not. And why is it even necessary to draw comparisons? Racism is not a zero sum game. It is. There is no index, is there?

Let me ask: Why did you compare the Japanese American experience with the African American experience?

[AZWarrior]

I'd rather not get into a silly debate over the English language, but when one says two things are comparable, it means those things are alike, not that they're capable of being compared.
Anything is capable of being compared. that doesn't mean they're comparable. Only a moron would say "The sun and and my penlight deliver comparable amounts of light."

I'm good with that.  With the caveat of when two people disagree on whether two items are sufficiently similar to be validly compared, neither person should refer to the other as a "moron".  There's way too much of that sort of thing on this board.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I did not say they are inherently harder working. Nor did I say they are better.

So what is your real point?

I'm asking the same question of him (MUAlum)...where did anyone on this thread ever say anything about work ethic or anything of that nature. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

To what extent?  Are you going to dumb down the smart people?  Make taller people shorter?  Etc?

It's not fair they are smarter.  It's not fair they are taller.  It's not fair they might be better looking and get a TV news desk job where the ugly guy can't get it.

Life isn't fair.  In the next life, I can't wait to live in unicorn land and make my demands on what everyone else in the world should pay (and I shall pay none, because that is the deal living in unicorn land) to make the world fair.

Reducto ad absurdium. While it is not fair for taller people to get an advantage, no one (as far as I know) has been killed because they are short. Whereas people are still killed every day because of their ethnicity.

You are right that we will never live in a world that is fair. But that is no reason to stop fighting for it.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -CS Lewis Edmond Burke.

I learned that quote my first semester at Marquette. Have tried to live by it ever since.

[4everwarriors]

JDate is offensive. I've done stuff with Jewish girlies. Why it gotta be for Jewish singles?

Gesundheit.

BeeJay just get your schwantz filleted and its all gone.

[Lennys Tap]

To what extent?  Are you going to dumb down the smart people?  Make taller people shorter?  Etc?

It's not fair they are smarter.  It's not fair they are taller.  It's not fair they might be better looking and get a TV news desk job where the ugly guy can't get it.

Life isn't fair.  In the next life, I can't wait to live in unicorn land and make my demands on what everyone else in the world should pay (and I shall pay none, because that is the deal living in unicorn land) to make the world fair.

HARRISON BERGERON by Kurt Vonnegut.

Please read it, takes 10 minutes....all about fairness....what a great short story.

"The year was 2081, and everybody was finally equal....

http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

"Harrison Bergeron" from Vonnegut's absolutely brilliant "Welcome to the Monkey House" is indeed a great short story. And I agree that some of the "unfair" things in life (musical or athletic talent, for example) should be celebrated, never envied or compromised. That's not what any of the folks are talking about here, though, and you know that. Some of us just think that it's incumbent on those of us who were born with advantages not of our own doing to a) acknowledge it and b) look out for those who weren't.

[keefe]

BeeJay just get your schwantz filleted and its all gone.

Doc

There's a haiku on that I believe

[rocky_warrior]

So I read everything (not really).  Did we decide...basketball players or athletes?

[Sir Lawrence]

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -CS Lewis.

I learned that quote my first semester at Marquette. Have tried to live by it ever since.

Except it's Edmund Burke, not C.S. Lewis.   

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Except it's Edmund Burke, not C.S. Lewis.   

Whoops. Fixed it!

[Coleman]

"Harrison Bergeron" from Vonnegut's absolutely brilliant "Welcome to the Monkey House" is indeed a great short story. And I agree that some of the "unfair" things in life (musical or athletic talent, for example) should be celebrated, never envied or compromised. That's not what any of the folks are talking about here, though, and you know that. Some of us just think that it's incumbent on those of us who were born with advantages not of our own doing to a) acknowledge it and b) look out for those who weren't.

Well said. Better said in 4 sentences than what anyone else has said in this thread so far.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Reducto ad absurdium. While it is not fair for taller people to get an advantage, no one (as far as I know) has been killed because they are short. Whereas people are still killed every day because of their ethnicity.

You are right that we will never live in a world that is fair. But that is no reason to stop fighting for it.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -CS Lewis.

I learned that quote my first semester at Marquette. Have tried to live by it ever since.

People have been killed for all kinds of reasons.  Religion, color of their skin, political beliefs, too tall, too short, too rich, too poor, knew too much, didn't know enough....you name it.

I agree, there is no reason to stop fighting for what you believe to be unfair, the problem I have is who is the arbiter that decides WHAT is unfair and WHAT is the remedy.  And to make matters worse, those who decide what is unfair may implement policies (in fact they already do) that are unfair in and of themselves.  Apparently more unfairness to correct an unfairness?  

Is it unfair that 47% pay no federal taxes and 53% do?  A lot of people would say hell yes that's unfair.  A lot of others would not.  Is it fair that some people are smarter than others?  Is it fair that ladies' get in free on Tuesday night's at the <insert bar here>?  Is it fair that one kid can get a 2100 SAT and another get a 2100 SAT go to the same high school, same grades but one is admitted and one isn't?  

[ChicosBailBonds]

Whoops. Fixed it!

That means you've been living a lie since your freshman year.   

[keefe]

With all due respect to the accomplishments of the Japanese community, the long-term effects of the prejudice they've faced in this country vastly pales in comparison to a few centuries of slavery followed by a 100+ years of systematic discrimination that worked to deprive an entire race of their basic civil rights.
The Japanese-American and African-American experiences in the U.S. are not remotely comparable.

Pakuni

Why did YOU make the comparison with African Americans? I made no comparison at all. So why did you introduce the African American experience into the equation?

I look forward to your response.

[ChicosBailBonds]

"Harrison Bergeron" from Vonnegut's absolutely brilliant "Welcome to the Monkey House" is indeed a great short story. And I agree that some of the "unfair" things in life (musical or athletic talent, for example) should be celebrated, never envied or compromised. That's not what any of the folks are talking about here, though, and you know that. Some of us just think that it's incumbent on those of us who were born with advantages not of our own doing to a) acknowledge it and b) look out for those who weren't.

Nothing wrong with that but it is also incumbent on those of us to help those that need help to be able to fend for themselves at some point. To fish, not be fished for.  It is also incumbent, IMO, not to push or support policies that don't achieve this aim, or worse, push people into thinking they cannot achieve on their own and to provide excuses and crutches as cover for which not to make the attempt.

[mattyv1908]

Reducto ad absurdium. While it is not fair for taller people to get an advantage, no one (as far as I know) has been killed because they are short. Whereas people are still killed every day because of their ethnicity.

You are right that we will never live in a world that is fair. But that is no reason to stop fighting for it.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -CS Lewis Edmond Burke.

I learned that quote my first semester at Marquette. Have tried to live by it ever since.

And statistically it occurs at the hands of those who share their same ethnicity.

[mattyv1908]

Fairness is an illusion that should never be strived for.  People confuse opportunity and fairness.