[PaintTouches]Strotman: Lack of accountability dooms Marquette

[NersEllenson]

Watch the play again.  What move?  The only option was a fadeaway three which would be acceptable were we needing a 3 at the buzzer to tie.  

We simply needed a basket.  While I'm sure Wilson didn't start the chain of events, he should have recognized the situation and got to the lane and the rim.  Even if we miss a shot with 8 seconds on the clock we can foul and the worst we're down is 3 with the ball for the final shot.

Jamil was smart for not forcing that.  The odds that a terrible shooter makes an open 10-12 foot jump shot is way higher than him hitting a fall away 3.

It's pointless Matty...so long as debating with Tower....nothing will ever rest at the feet of Derrick...not the fact he dribbled his defender right into Jamil for an easy double, or that he missed a wide open 10 foot shot, or that he shoots 44% from FT line...he's now being held up as Eric Snow...which I will say Eric Snow was similarly robotic as Derrick is on a basketball floor.

[mattyv1908]

I think there was around 24 seconds left following the timeout.  I can't imagine Buzz not saying something to the effect that if they cannot get the ball to the designed play to get a shot going towards the basket with enough time left to make it at least an additional possession by fouling on a miss.

That's as basic as it gets regarding late game situations when you're trailing by one with time on the clock.

[tower912]

Watch the play again.  What move?  The only option was a fadeaway three which would be acceptable were we needing a 3 at the buzzer to tie.  

We simply needed a basket.  While I'm sure Wilson didn't start the chain of events, he should have recognized the situation and got to the lane and the rim.  Even if we miss a shot with 8 seconds on the clock we can foul and the worst we're down is 3 with the ball for the final shot.

Jamil was smart for not forcing that.  The odds that a terrible shooter makes an open 10-12 foot jump shot is way higher than him hitting a fall away 3.

Matty, my point that any shot from Jamil is better than any shot from Derrick that isn't a wide open layup.    And as a senior leader, Jamil has to want to be the man.   Or accountable, getting back to the title of the thread.  

[tower912]

Tower,  that's a HUGE difference.  Please don't discount that.

You also mentioned making lay ups on fast breaks.  I'm glad you brought that up because to me that is the biggest issue I've seen on this team and for once I'll agree that Wilson isn't the only problem but still a large contributor.  How many fast break points does this year's team even have?  That's not a rhetorical question.  For all this talk about position defense we sure don't capitalize on opponents' turnovers at all.

Let's be honest, the last several teams were not the best shooting squads outside of the year with Acker and Cubillan.  DJO and Crowder could stroke it but they were streaky.  Butler developed an outside shot as a senior but he wasn't a great shooter in college.  Blue wasn't a good shooter.


When your starting back court can't finish at the rim and is absent of any fast break points it's a big problem.

I agree with this.   Runout points off of turnovers are missing this year.    DJO and Vander were exceptional at these.    Todd is pretty good.    Derrick and Jake are not.      The other thing that has troubled me related to this is that Jake will run to the 3 pt line catch the ball in transition with no one around him and not shoot.    Grrrr.     

[brandx]

I agree with this.   I have been quoting Buzz's complaint about lack of leadership going back to September.   I freely admit that this reinforces my bias about this team.   IMO, the biggest weakness of this team is that the most talented seniors have not consistently led.    And it boils down to that last play in double OT on Senior day.    Gardner went to the wrong spot and Jamil didn't want to take the shot.   This year's version of senior leadership, of accountability, in 7 seconds.  

I have been saying this as well for a while. Got a lot of flak for it.

I also said next year's team will be better just because we will have strong leaders. Derrick and Juan both obviously have limitations as players, but have bought in fully to the system and should be good leaders next year. This year, none of the seniors stepped up as a leader and as a junior, Derrick didn't seem to want to step on toes. that will change next year - even though his minutes will definitely go down.

[NersEllenson]

Matty, my point that any shot from Jamil is better than any shot from Derrick that isn't a wide open layup.    And as a senior leader, Jamil has to want to be the man.   Or accountable, getting back to the title of the thread.  

So next year when Derrick is a senior, will he be looked at as not being accountable or a senior leader, should he pass out of a fadeaway, double teamed 22 foot, 3 point shot - to a wide open teammate for a 10 game winner?

Also interesting that you don't find Derrick to be a liability on the floor, and that he's a viable 30 minute per game PG at this level, when you concede he has no business taking any shot other than a wide open layup...which we also saw him blow against Providence.  

[chapman]

Just an honest question: Shouldn't your Stud PG who is now a Jr., having played lots of minutes be one of your leaders? Methinks so.

Need to back up your talk enough to inspire followers.  Otherwise Todd and Davante will just continue to flash looks as if to say "make half of your free throws, then talk to me".

[mattyv1908]

Matty, my point that any shot from Jamil is better than any shot from Derrick that isn't a wide open layup.    And as a senior leader, Jamil has to want to be the man.   Or accountable, getting back to the title of the thread.  

Ok, you and I disagree there.  I don't want Jamil taking bad shots.  I don't want him necessarily taking good shots depending on how he's playing.

My point has nothing to do with the final 3 seconds.  As soon as the designed play failed Derrick Wilson as the point guard (and de facto leader due to his position) needed to realize that the team needed to attack the basket for a bucket with time left around 10 seconds.  He instead spend almost 20 seconds of that last possession dribbling away a real chance at victory.

Shots get missed.  That doesn't make me angry or upset.  It's part of the game.

What I'm trying to say is we shouldn't even be debating over what was the worse shot.  It was terrible basketball IQ by the five on the floor in that situation and also by Buzz IF he didn't talk specifically about what to do if the play breaks down.

[brandx]

Eric Snow at MSU.     Career .459% FT shooter.   Career .263% 3 pt shooter.    5.3 career assists.  (7.8 senior year)    The only spot where he was significantly better than Wilson was 2 pt FG %, and that is because, if memory serves, he was very good at finishing at the rim on the break.   His teams did OK with him doing nothing but playing defense, passing the ball to the good players, and making lay ups on fast breaks.   So, having a PG who is not a shooting threat is not a problem if other players on the team want the ball in big moments.   Look, Derrick not being able to shoot is A problem.   IMO, it is not THE problem.    

Derrick's is not even close to Eric Snow. Eric Snow was good enough to play 13 years in the NBA.

Snow shot 57% on 2 point shot as opposed to 39%. And defensively, there is no comparison as well. Snow actually was a lockdown defender.

[Lennys Tap]

Derrick's is not even close to Eric Snow. Eric Snow was good enough to play 13 years in the NBA.

Snow shot 57% on 2 point shot as opposed to 39%. And defensively, there is no comparison as well. Snow actually was a lockdown defender.

Derrick is not close to Snow, I agree. Just some math clean up, though - Derrick is a 39% shooter on total field goals attempted, 42.5% on 2s.

[ATWizJr]

From the story, is it fair to surmise that at some point Buzz lost this team?

[LAZER]

I think MU's guard play had more to do with it than accountability and leadership.

[connie]

From the story, is it fair to surmise that at some point Buzz lost this team?

I don't know about "lost."  It actually appeared more that he never really "had" them, and was searching for something that wasn't there (or wasn't found).

[brandx]

Derrick is not close to Snow, I agree. Just some math clean up, though - Derrick is a 39% shooter on total field goals attempted, 42.5% on 2s.

I was using career numbers for snow and Derrick - not just this year.

39.3% on 2s
36.1% on total field goals attempted shots

[ChicosBailBonds]

Could Ox have been a leader if he had started?

He would not have won 6th man of the year in the Big East then.

[ChicosBailBonds]

More JUCO please.

Why?  Having 4 or 5 top 100 players isn't enough?  How about, more development of high school players on this team please....something we have struggled with MIGHTILY in the last five years.

[willie warrior]

Need to back up your talk enough to inspire followers.  Otherwise Todd and Davante will just continue to flash looks as if to say "make half of your free throws, then talk to me".

Yeah--or up your scoring to 9-10 PPG, and then talk to me.

[tower912]

Why?  Having 4 or 5 top 100 players isn't enough?  How about, more development of high school players on this team please....something we have struggled with MIGHTILY in the last five years.

Don't you have to go defend your fanboy mancrush over on the IU scout boards?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Don't you have to go defend your fanboy mancrush over on the IU scout boards?

Very solid response...top notch.

Not my fanboy, certainly not a mancrush.  Why would you even be over on an IU scout board...did you go to IU?  Obsession much?  LOL


Do you think we have developed high school talent very well in the last 5 years, despite it being ranked so highly (rankings can be wrong)?  Why the need for JUCOs with all of this high school talent?   

[MUfan12]

Do you think we have developed high school talent very well in the last 5 years, despite it being ranked so highly (rankings can be wrong)?

You're absolutely right, people just don't want to hear it.

The HS players that have developed into impact players under Buzz? Gardner, Blue, maybe Cadougan? It has to be a concern moving forward.

I will be very, very interested to see how this freshman class develops.

[connie]

You're absolutely right, people just don't want to hear it.

The HS players that have developed into impact players under Buzz? Gardner, Blue, maybe Cadougan? It has to be a concern moving forward.

I will be very, very interested to see how this freshman class develops.

I always wonder why we exclude Butler from that list.  I doubt that he had much development at Tyler Junior College.  Yeah, technically a JUCO, but his development was really all MU.

[Golden Avalanche]

Don't you have to go defend your fanboy mancrush over on the IU scout boards?

This could be the silliest and bitchiest response ever on this board.

[LAZER]

You're absolutely right, people just don't want to hear it.

The HS players that have developed into impact players under Buzz? Gardner, Blue, maybe Cadougan? It has to be a concern moving forward.

I will be very, very interested to see how this freshman class develops.

I think Mayo's on court development has been strong.  Next year he could easily be averaging 14ppg.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You're absolutely right, people just don't want to hear it.

The HS players that have developed into impact players under Buzz? Gardner, Blue, maybe Cadougan? It has to be a concern moving forward.

I will be very, very interested to see how this freshman class develops.

It's not what is said here, it is who says the what.   

[tower912]

This could be the silliest and bitchiest response ever on this board.

You should pay more attention.