[PaintTouches]Strotman: Lack of accountability dooms Marquette

[willie warrior]

Well, except for the fact that we had as many close games this season as we did in years past...and the winning plays made by guys like Vander, Jae, Jimmy etc were rarely the work of the PG.  Instead, the PG usually just handed those guys the ball at the end and got out of the way.  When our PG tried to do that this season, the guys he handed the ball to didn't produce.

You can rail on this year's PG all you want, but the fact is that Junior didn't make some stellar pass to Vander at the end of the SJU or Davidson games last season.  Vander took the ball from the perimeter to the hole himself.  If we'd had a guy who could consistently do that at the end of games this year, our record would be very different...with the same PG.

Just an honest question: Shouldn't your Stud PG who is now a Jr., having played lots of minutes be one of your leaders? Methinks so.

[mattyv1908]

However, using your numbers, he was 'best available'.

I agree.

You and I don't agree when it comes to nobody stepping up.  Davante, Mayo and to a certain extent Jamil all did their best to step up.  It's not like they're Shaq, Kobe and LeBron talent wise.  It's hard to overcome ineptness at a critical position even as a senior leader.

[MUfan12]

Don't we pay Buzz the big bucks to be the leader of this team? All this talk about lack of leadership...if Buzz realizes he doesn't have any leaders on this team, he should take it upon himself to force the issue on himself even more.

I don't know if that's completely fair. He could have tried that, but if the team doesn't listen...

What does bother me is his bitching about the conference scheduling, and quick turnarounds. Every team in the league had to deal with it. It's hard to teach accountability to the players after trying to deflect blame on to the schedule.

[tower912]

Eric Snow at MSU.     Career .459% FT shooter.   Career .263% 3 pt shooter.    5.3 career assists.  (7.8 senior year)    The only spot where he was significantly better than Wilson was 2 pt FG %, and that is because, if memory serves, he was very good at finishing at the rim on the break.   His teams did OK with him doing nothing but playing defense, passing the ball to the good players, and making lay ups on fast breaks.   So, having a PG who is not a shooting threat is not a problem if other players on the team want the ball in big moments.   Look, Derrick not being able to shoot is A problem.   IMO, it is not THE problem.    

[GooooMarquette]

Just an honest question: Shouldn't your Stud PG who is now a Jr., having played lots of minutes be one of your leaders? Methinks so.

I never called him a "stud PG."  You did.  Just saying he wasn't the main reason for our struggles this season.

As to your question...he was probably the closest guy we had to a team leader.  Considering that he played along 4 seniors, that says quite a bit.

[mattyv1908]

Eric Snow at MSU.     Career .459% FT shooter.   Career .263% 3 pt shooter.    6.1 career assists.      The only spot where he was significantly better than Wilson was 2 pt FG %, and that is because, if memory serves, he was very good at finishing at the rim on the break.   His teams did OK with him doing nothing but playing defense, passing the ball to the good players, and making lay ups on fast breaks.   So, having a PG who is not a shooting threat is not a problem if other players on the team want the ball in big moments.   Look, Derrick not being able to shoot is A problem.   IMO, it is not THE problem.    

Tower,  that's a HUGE difference.  Please don't discount that.

You also mentioned making lay ups on fast breaks.  I'm glad you brought that up because to me that is the biggest issue I've seen on this team and for once I'll agree that Wilson isn't the only problem but still a large contributor.  How many fast break points does this year's team even have?  That's not a rhetorical question.  For all this talk about position defense we sure don't capitalize on opponents' turnovers at all.

Let's be honest, the last several teams were not the best shooting squads outside of the year with Acker and Cubillan.  DJO and Crowder could stroke it but they were streaky.  Butler developed an outside shot as a senior but he wasn't a great shooter in college.  Blue wasn't a good shooter.

When your starting back court can't finish at the rim and is absent of any fast break points it's a big problem.

[GooooMarquette]

Eric Snow at MSU.     Career .459% FT shooter.   Career .263% 3 pt shooter.    5.3 career assists.  (7.8 senior year)    The only spot where he was significantly better than Wilson was 2 pt FG %, and that is because, if memory serves, he was very good at finishing at the rim on the break.   His teams did OK with him doing nothing but playing defense, passing the ball to the good players, and making lay ups on fast breaks.   So, having a PG who is not a shooting threat is not a problem if other players on the team want the ball in big moments.   Look, Derrick not being able to shoot is A problem.   IMO, it is not THE problem.    

Yep.

[connie]

Tower,  that's a HUGE difference.  Please don't discount that.

You also mentioned making lay ups on fast breaks.  I'm glad you brought that up because to me that is the biggest issue I've seen on this team and for once I'll agree that Wilson isn't the only problem but still a large contributor.  How many fast break points does this year's team even have?  That's not a rhetorical question.  For all this talk about position defense we sure don't capitalize on opponents' turnovers at all.

Let's be honest, the last several teams were not the best shooting squads outside of the year with Acker and Cubillan.  DJO and Crowder could stroke it but they were streaky.  Butler developed an outside shot as a senior but he wasn't a great shooter in college.  Blue wasn't a good shooter.

When your starting back court can't finish at the rim and is absent of any fast break points it's a big problem.

I think this is a problem that has not been given nearly as much attention as it deserves.  I don't think that this can be placed on one player, as it is so dependent not only on offensive talent, but also the ability to generate turnovers.  Whatever the cause/problem, the inability or unwillingness to push the ball up the court was a marked contrast to prior MU teams.  While I hate to feed the beast, I do believe that at least part of this problem goes to our point guard.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Eric Snow at MSU.     Career .459% FT shooter.   Career .263% 3 pt shooter.    5.3 career assists.  (7.8 senior year)    The only spot where he was significantly better than Wilson was 2 pt FG %, and that is because, if memory serves, he was very good at finishing at the rim on the break.   His teams did OK with him doing nothing but playing defense, passing the ball to the good players, and making lay ups on fast breaks.   So, having a PG who is not a shooting threat is not a problem if other players on the team want the ball in big moments.   Look, Derrick not being able to shoot is A problem.   IMO, it is not THE problem.    

When you can't shoot, finishing at the rim is very important. Derrick is not good at finishing at the rim. Also Snow shooting .263 from 3 is much better than Derricks .083. Teams at least had to respect his shot. Eric Snow played in the NBA for 13 years and was known as a great leader and hard nosed defender. There is no comparison between the 2 in my opinion.

[tower912]

Snow made zero 3 pt shots his freshman and sophomore years.   His senior year, he made 7.    His acme was 13 made his junior year.      That's right.   NBA for many years, 20 total made 3's in college.    He made himself a better shooter later.    FT % is very close though.     Finishing at the rim is the significant difference.   

[Eldon]

This team's struggles have nothing to do with "leadership," and everything to do with talent at the most critical position on the floor and the inability of our backcourt to consistently put the ball in the basket.  Buzz made the decision all year that he was better off playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end, than risk putting the ball and potentially more turnovers in the hands of a freshman PG.  He wasn't willing to sacrifice defense and ball security for more offense.  His call...his choice.....it's on him.  He'd have lost nothing more had he tried a different approach for just 3 or 4 games...and he just might have found something along the way.  We'll never know.  

+ 1000

My sentiments exactly. And in the Providence game, we played 6 on 4.

[GooooMarquette]

Honest question.  For those who think this team's struggles have nothing to do with a lack of leadership - who would you call our team leader this season?  You know, the guy we could depend on to take over in crunch time like Vander, Jae, Jimmy or Lazar?

[NersEllenson]

Honest question.  For those who think this team's struggles have nothing to do with a lack of leadership - who would you call our team leader this season?  You know, the guy we could depend on to take over in crunch time like Vander, Jae, Jimmy or Lazar?

Did Todd Mayo just not do that against Nova, Providence, and St. John's??  I'd say he did it in every bit good of fashion as Vander, Jimmy, or Jae did...and all those guys played with a PG that was somewhat of a threat to make a 3, or 2 pt shot from outside 3 feet...

It is beyond reason, how you can say PG play isn't THEE reason for our team's struggles this year.  Mayo has put up numbers and efficiency on par/better than Vander last year..virtually made losing Vander a wash...which essentially says you want to say the difference between our Big East Championship and Elite 8 team last year, and this 17-14, 9-9 in watered down Big East team is the result of missing Trent Lockett?

[GooooMarquette]

Did Todd Mayo just not do that against Nova, Providence, and St. John's??  I'd say he did it in every bit good of fashion as Vander, Jimmy, or Jae did...and all those guys played with a PG that was somewhat of a threat to make a 3, or 2 pt shot from outside 3 feet...

It is beyond reason, how you can say PG play isn't THEE reason for our team's struggles this year.  Mayo has put up numbers and efficiency on par/better than Vander last year..virtually made losing Vander a wash...which essentially says you want to say the difference between our Big East Championship and Elite 8 team last year, and this 17-14, 9-9 in watered down Big East team is the result of missing Trent Lockett?

I don't disagree that Todd might be the best leader we have this season.  But then the problem is with Buzz for playing our leader 23 mpg, while he played Vander 33 mpg, Jae 33 mpg, Jimmy 35 mpg, and Lazar 32 mpg.  I doubt Derrick was the guy who told Buzz not to play him more.....

[UticaBusBarn]

Strotty, is correct. It is a lack of leadership.

However, he needed to take it one step deeper. "If you don't have guards, you don't have sh*t" said the late great Abe Lemmon.

Don't have them ... 17-14, nothing more needs to be said, nor blame allocated.

[NersEllenson]

I don't disagree that Todd might be the best leader we have this season.  But then the problem is with Buzz for playing our leader 23 mpg, while he played Vander 33 mpg, Jae 33 mpg, Jimmy 35 mpg, and Lazar 32 mpg.  I doubt Derrick was the guy who told Buzz not to play him more.....

Totally agree...this hasn't been Buzz's finest coaching job in any way, shape or form this year...and at the end of the day...that's where the accountability rests/lies.  Gardner not getting 32 minutes per game is another area of missed opportunity.

Makes no sense to further handcuff Derrick with a starting lineup featuring Jake, Juan, Otule - none of whom can create their own shot for the most part...

[keefe]

However, using your numbers, he was 'best available'.

Actually, Fr Davitt would disagree with your logic. Now, if you had said, "In my opinion, he was 'best available'" then Fr Davitt would have refrained from finding fault.

[willie warrior]

I never called him a "stud PG."  You did.  Just saying he wasn't the main reason for our struggles this season.

As to your question...he was probably the closest guy we had to a team leader.  Considering that he played along 4 seniors, that says quite a bit.

No I did not you called him a stud. But Da Coach sure as hell has. Except when it comes to lack of leadership--which then becomes an alleged problem of the seniors.

The Leadership problem is the coach's responsibility. It failed this year. On Buzz!

[tower912]

So, 4 seconds left, double overtime, down one, and any one of the following receive the ball exactly where Jamil did...... Lazar, Jimmy, DJO, Jae, Vander....what happens next?     Whether or not they make the shot, how many of them choose to NOT shoot?

[mattyv1908]

So, 4 seconds left, double overtime, down one, and any one of the following receive the ball exactly where Jamil did...... Lazar, Jimmy, DJO, Jae, Vander....what happens next?     Whether or not they make the shot, how many of them choose to NOT shoot?

Well hopefully none of them take that shot.  It's a contested 3 with two defenders right on him almost like a trap.

After the initial play broke down, it would have been better for Derrick to drive to the basket with 8-9 seconds left to take a shot headed towards the basket still leaving time for an offensive put back.

We were down one.  A contested three should have never been the shot taken as a two point basket seals the victory.

[tower912]

Pretty sure they would have tried a move.   They all missed shots to win games at various times.   

[Eldon]

So if something wasn't working in practice, Buzz should still have tried it in games, just so we could all see that it didn't work?

Brett Favre says "yes, that may actually lead to something."

[bilsu]

This year, instead of producing, or even attempting to,  they passed the ball back to the worst shooter on the team.  

The best shooter on the team missed shots at the end of both overtimes against Providence. Of course Mayo had fouled out against St. John's. Had he been in the game he probably would of taken last shot, but based on Providence we still would of lost.

[NersEllenson]

Brett Favre says "yes, that may actually lead to something."

As would Tom Brady..

[mattyv1908]

Pretty sure they would have tried a move.   They all missed shots to win games at various times.   

Watch the play again.  What move?  The only option was a fadeaway three which would be acceptable were we needing a 3 at the buzzer to tie.  

We simply needed a basket.  While I'm sure Wilson didn't start the chain of events, he should have recognized the situation and got to the lane and the rim.  Even if we miss a shot with 8 seconds on the clock we can foul and the worst we're down is 3 with the ball for the final shot.

Jamil was smart for not forcing that.  The odds that a terrible shooter makes an open 10-12 foot jump shot is way higher than him hitting a fall away 3.