Why we lost today

[MerrittsMustache]

What is more disturbing was the last play of the game when Tony Chenault blew by Derrick like he was standing still.

That's a tough position to be in. Chennault did exactly what he should have done and what many players do not do in that situation - he headed straight to the basket. Five seconds can be a long time and no one on the defense wants to foul, so the offensive player has a huge advantage. If Derrick or anyone else had gotten a touch/reach-in foul 45 feet from the basket, that would be inexcusable.

[mu03eng]

That's a tough position to be in. Chennault did exactly what he should have done and what many players do not do in that situation - he headed straight to the basket. Five seconds can be a long time and no one on the defense wants to foul, so the offensive player has a huge advantage. If Derrick or anyone else had gotten a touch/reach-in foul 45 feet from the basket, that would be inexcusable.

Wilson played defense on that the exact right way, he forced him baseline to the help defense, which was STj.  He had three things he could/should have done to help:  1.  step out to stop the penetration and hope that the defense behind him had rotated to the weakside to prevent the dish 2.  Step up a few feet to force Nova to either shot a low % runner or dish early  3.  Stay where he is and go up for a shot block attempt to at least alter the shot lowering the %

STj chose secret option 4:  Do nothing but put yourself in a bad position including take yourself out of taking a charge but get bailed out by a borderline horrendous charge call by the official that loves offensive fouls more than any other.

It was an impressive decision and one few make successfully 

[NersEllenson]

This is, of course, dead on. Unfortunately, none of this was touched on in Ner's Basketball 101 course, which only covered points scored and the "eye test".

Sorry - I'll no longer make mention of the "eye test."  Here's the results:  11-9, two home losses, squeak out a win at home against Seton Hall, lose at Butler.  No wins over Top 50 teams.

Coaches pick to win the conference.  Veteran team.  Best post player in years.  Talented wings in Mayo and Jamil.

And FYI - just because we shoot 50% from the floor and lots of FT's - Thank you Davante Gardner on both stats FG% and FTA's - doesn't mean that your offense couldn't function better with a more talented player running the show at PG.  Also, don't blame the guys on the bench for us getting our ass handed to us on rebounds - that's on the guys who played max minutes.  And yes, just FYI - part of why we had so many challenges getting boards on the defensive end, was because their PG abused ours and forced help repeatedly, which takes people out of rebounding position.  (Basketball 101 concept.)

[GooooMarquette]

Derrick Wilson is constantly criticized for his poor offense, and rightly so.  He is a non-threat, both as a scorer and a distributor.  However, against Villanova, we shot 50% from the floor, got 31 FTs and had only 9 turnovers in 45 minutes, while he was running the point for most of that time.  Our offense wasn't the problem.  We had the advantage inside and we concentrated on that advantage with good results.  I know many were upset that Jake didn't get more shots or that we didn't run plays for him, but other than the last few trips when we needed 3's to get back in the game, I never thought, "Gee, we should run a play for Thomas on this possession."

Our defense and defensive rebounding were atrocious.  And while Derrick Wilson is not the lockdown defender he is purported to be, he is a good defender.  (I don't think playing Dawson would have helped any on defense and probably would have just made matters worse).  It was odd to me that Derrick was not guarding Arcidiacano when it mattered most, in OT.  I'm guessing Buzz figured that Mayo had fresher legs at that point in the game.  Bottom line, our guards were toasted on defense, Gardner is a crappy help defender and we didn't grab defensive boards.  (Part of the reason Otule got no rebounds and Gardner got many is because Otule constantly abandons rebounding position to provide defensive help while Gardner does not.  When the guards can't stop penetration, neither is a solid recipe for success.)  That's why we lost.

Excellent post, CTWarrior.  Spot on.

[jesmu84]

That's a tough position to be in. Chennault did exactly what he should have done and what many players do not do in that situation - he headed straight to the basket. Five seconds can be a long time and no one on the defense wants to foul, so the offensive player has a huge advantage. If Derrick or anyone else had gotten a touch/reach-in foul 45 feet from the basket, that would be inexcusable.

Chennault also did basically the opposite of what Dunham (Butler) and Starks (GT) did.

[jesmu84]

Sorry - I'll no longer make mention of the "eye test."  Here's the results:  11-9, two home losses, squeak out a win at home against Seton Hall, lose at Butler.  No wins over Top 50 teams.

Coaches pick to win the conference.  Veteran team.  Best post player in years.  Talented wings in Mayo and Jamil.

And FYI - just because we shoot 50% from the floor and lots of FT's - Thank you Davante Gardner on both stats FG% and FTA's - doesn't mean that your offense couldn't function better with a more talented player running the show at PG.  Also, don't blame the guys on the bench for us getting our ass handed to us on rebounds - that's on the guys who played max minutes.  And yes, just FYI - part of why we had so many challenges getting boards on the defensive end, was because their PG abused ours and forced help repeatedly, which takes people out of rebounding position.  (Basketball 101 concept.)

I can't speak for Lenny. But for me, I was a little annoyed at some of the posts you made after the Nova game because you were referencing some of the problems that had presented in previous games, but trying to apply them to Nova. Not that those previous problems aren't valid, but they just didn't apply to this particular loss.

[mu-rara]

Sorry - I'll no longer make mention of the "eye test."  Here's the results:  11-9, two home losses, squeak out a win at home against Seton Hall, lose at Butler.  No wins over Top 50 teams.

Coaches pick to win the conference.  Veteran team.  Best post player in years.  Talented wings in Mayo and Jamil.

Veteran front line.

Preseason concensus was that PG was a big question.  Derrick is what most everyone says he is, a 12 minute per game backup point guard.  Problem is, there is nobody stepping up as a starting point.  Dawson was not able to follow what could have been his breakout game.  He committed multiple freshman mistakes against Nova.  I want him to play as much as you Ners.  His upside is high, but until he stops making freshman mistakes, he is not gonna earn it.

[NersEllenson]

I can't speak for Lenny. But for me, I was a little annoyed at some of the posts you made after the Nova game because you were referencing some of the problems that had presented in previous games, but trying to apply them to Nova. Not that those previous problems aren't valid, but they just didn't apply to this particular loss.

I understand the point you are trying to make Jesmu84 - I just don't feel Derrick's defense is so elite, that the benefits it brings exceed the benefits Dawson's more polished game bring to the team.  I'd bet my left nut if Dawson got 36 minutes in that game, he'd have scored 12-15 points - and those points would have helped toward victory.  Not to mention his offensive ability helps create space and better operating room for the other 4 guys on the team.

[mu03eng]

And yes, just FYI - part of why we had so many challenges getting boards on the defensive end, was because their PG abused ours and forced help repeatedly, which takes people out of rebounding position.  (Basketball 101 concept.)

Ners, go back and watch the tape, especially in OT Mayo was on Nova's PG not Derrick.  Not saying that's good or bad, nor am I disagreeing that was an issue with rebounding.  Just pointing out this issue is valid, but not against Derrick since he wasn't even guarding him on the penetrate and dump action

[NersEllenson]

Veteran front line.

Preseason concensus was that PG was a big question.  Derrick is what most everyone says he is, a 12 minute per game backup point guard.  Problem is, there is nobody stepping up as a starting point.  Dawson was not able to follow what could have been his breakout game.  He committed multiple freshman mistakes against Nova.  I want him to play as much as you Ners.  His upside is high, but until he stops making freshman mistakes, he is not gonna earn it.

Agree - PG was a big question - and clearly hasn't passed the test.  We don't know what Dawson would look like as a starter, because he's yet been given the chance.  However, in the one game he got 30 minutes - he showed quite well, and had very few "freshman mistakes."  I feel we have a junior PG who is still playing like a freshman, and also makes freshman mistakes...which I kind of feel is an overused metaphor anyway.  Dawson missed two good runners in the lane from 5' - were on target - and he showed in G'town game he has a good 3-ball, a nice mid range pull up game, and also a nice clever drive and baby/hook floater.  

Now if Dawson made those two floaters, and has at that point 7 points (combining them with the 3 he made), probably would have been really hard for Buzz to pull him.  But...perhaps Dawson being that aggressive offensively was too much for Buzz...

[mu03eng]

I understand the point you are trying to make Jesmu84 - I just don't feel Derrick's defense is so elite, that the benefits it brings exceed the benefits Dawson's more polished game bring to the team.  I'd bet my left nut if Dawson got 36 minutes in that game, he'd have scored 12-15 points - and those points would have helped toward victory.  Not to mention his offensive ability helps create space and better operating room for the other 4 guys on the team.

Simple question, was the offense the problem on Saturday?  I don't believe it was so what Dawson would have increased in offense, probably would have hurt on the defensive end.

And again, I don't buy the more minutes the better he plays argument.  He had several minutes run and was no worse or better than Derrick.  Additionally in a game like that where Nova goes on runs and MU has to answer back I don't want to give a player time to get into the game.  If that's what it takes, fine, but that wasn't the game for it.  Lastly, Nova is a faster, more perimeter oriented team which negates some of the offensive difference between Dawson and Wilson.

Wilson wasn't awesome, I just don't think Dawson would have made any kind of difference.

[NersEllenson]

Ners, go back and watch the tape, especially in OT Mayo was on Nova's PG not Derrick.  Not saying that's good or bad, nor am I disagreeing that was an issue with rebounding.  Just pointing out this issue is valid, but not against Derrick since he wasn't even guarding him on the penetrate and dump action

Really wish I could go back and watch game but didn't DVR it as I was at it.  Was Derrick not guarding Ryan A during regulation most of the game - honestly don't recall?  I just recall seeing Ryan A dribble circles around us forcing help and creating good looks and offensive rebounding chances for his team.

My point is that if Derrick is your "Aaron Craft" good defender, why is he not locking up the player on the other team causing the problems?  I didn't have an issue with Derrick's defense on last play of the game, as that is terrible position to be in, because you absolutely cannot foul the kid rushing the ball upcourt.  Would have been nice if we were able to get him turned once...but...you can't foul at any cost..

[NersEllenson]

Simple question, was the offense the problem on Saturday?  I don't believe it was so what Dawson would have increased in offense, probably would have hurt on the defensive end.

And again, I don't buy the more minutes the better he plays argument.  He had several minutes run and was no worse or better than Derrick.  Additionally in a game like that where Nova goes on runs and MU has to answer back I don't want to give a player time to get into the game.  If that's what it takes, fine, but that wasn't the game for it.  Lastly, Nova is a faster, more perimeter oriented team which negates some of the offensive difference between Dawson and Wilson.

Wilson wasn't awesome, I just don't think Dawson would have made any kind of difference.

Pretty sure we fell behind early in the game, Dawson came in, and we got back in game from 6 point deficit to even, when he went out.  Several minutes of run is not enough.  He needs 30 minutes.  Just like Mayo - if you want to get their max potential/results.

Did you feel Dawson made a difference in the G'Town game?  If so, he probably would have in this game.  G'Town is the only game Dawson got more than 17 minutes running the point all year...and the results were pretty good.

[GGGG]

Dawson should have gotten more.  Simply to give Derrick more of a rest so he could save his energy defensively.  15 minutes would have been good.

But Ners your memory is wrong regarding Dawson in the game on Saturday.  He had three stretches of play during the game - and was negative +/- in every single one of them.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2014/01/25/villanova-94-marquette-85/plus_minus

[River rat]

Guys everyone wants to argue about the rebounding and lets be perfectly clear and honest....THAT IS WHY WE LOST.

Now people want to then break it down about who got the rebounds and should we bench guys this and that.  

Its really more simple than that.  Villanova is more athletic than Marquette.  Unfortunately most of the Big East teams we play are more athletic too.  Would have only been worse in the old Big East.  How did we get here?  OMG??!!

Well we hade some really big transfers and defections and injuries that have killed our back court.  

The argument was made that we were feeding the post and Jake therefore was not getting shots... true.  However, he was also unable to get shots.  Along the same line he was also too unathletic to get rebounds.  Put Vander in that spot or even a TJ Taylor and Jake is getting the minutes he got in the second half of last year.  I will make the same argument on Todd MAyo, he is not overly athletic.  Quick first step but not overly, big, strong or athletic.  Chris otule, and I love what thet kid has done, but he is essentially a terrible rebounder for his size.  He cannot get to many balls and unfortunately drops or has many of them stipped when he does.  Furthermore, devante is not a great rebounder.  His will seems to waver and he is not overly athletic.  He had 4 rebounds until late in the game and his rebounds got padded off of missed free throws and rebounding his misses.  None of these 4 guys went and got those rebounds we are all discussing.  Its no ones fault, guys left guys got hurt we are a little unathletic this year playing alot of should be back up type players.  Future looks good, this year we simply suffer from a lack of talent

[CTWarrior]

Did you feel Dawson made a difference in the G'Town game?  If so, he probably would have in this game.  G'Town is the only game Dawson got more than 17 minutes running the point all year...and the results were pretty good.

Every game is different.  Against Villanova, we were moving the ball and getting good shots, and good shots for Gardner, which is what we want against Villanova regardless of who the PG is.

The thing is, I agree with your larger point of increasing Dawson's minutes and significantly decreasing Derrick's, but to me Villanova wasn't a game that illustrated your point.  

[jesmu84]

Pretty sure we fell behind early in the game, Dawson came in, and we got back in game from 6 point deficit to even, when he went out.  Several minutes of run is not enough.  He needs 30 minutes.  Just like Mayo - if you want to get their max potential/results.

Did you feel Dawson made a difference in the G'Town game?  If so, he probably would have in this game.  G'Town is the only game Dawson got more than 17 minutes running the point all year...and the results were pretty good.

GT vs. Nova - zone vs. man; different gameplan/offensive focus; etc. Tough to just straight line say if he was successful in one game then he absolutely would be successful in another.

Also, maybe in Buzz's mind he's playing risk management. He sees Dawson and Mayo has high risk/reward guys. He sees Jake/Derrick as more known commodities/consistency. His preference is toward the latter. It is what it is. No use shouting it from the mountaintops if the one person who has control over the situation isn't listening.

[Lennys Tap]

Pretty sure we fell behind early in the game, Dawson came in, and we got back in game from 6 point deficit to even, when he went out. 

Another example of the "eye test" seeing what it wants to see and not what actually happened.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Really wish I could go back and watch game but didn't DVR it as I was at it.  Was Derrick not guarding Ryan A during regulation most of the game - honestly don't recall?  I just recall seeing Ryan A dribble circles around us forcing help and creating good looks and offensive rebounding chances for his team.

My point is that if Derrick is your "Aaron Craft" good defender, why is he not locking up the player on the other team causing the problems?  I didn't have an issue with Derrick's defense on last play of the game, as that is terrible position to be in, because you absolutely cannot foul the kid rushing the ball upcourt.  Would have been nice if we were able to get him turned once...but...you can't foul at any cost..

I seem to recall at least a few possessions in the 2nd half where Derrick was guarding James Bell.   Possibly Buzz put Derrick on the guy that totally torched Jamil and company with 15 in the 1st half?  Or maybe he just ended up on him due to a switch?  There are so many switches it's generally pretty hard to follow and I have no way of knowing.

Either way, I don't think Derrick is a good enough defender, particularly with the new rules emphasis, to stop all dribble penetration...nobody is.  That's where help defense has to be there...and ours was generally lacking in this game.

[mu03eng]

Really wish I could go back and watch game but didn't DVR it as I was at it.  Was Derrick not guarding Ryan A during regulation most of the game - honestly don't recall?  I just recall seeing Ryan A dribble circles around us forcing help and creating good looks and offensive rebounding chances for his team.

Wilson was on him until about 5 or 6 minutes left in the 2nd half when they started switching on screens and had Mayo more focused on him and Wilson was on Bell.

My point is that if Derrick is your "Aaron Craft" good defender, why is he not locking up the player on the other team causing the problems?  

This point is a very valid one that should be discussed around Buzz's coaching.

I'm ok with the discussion/argument on whether Derrick should have been on Arch the whole game, but you can't call out Derrick's defense because he was either guard Arch or Bell and had pretty good success against either.  As you point out Arch was tearing them up late and Bell in the middle, who would Dawson guard and how would that have helped us?

[mu03eng]

Did you feel Dawson made a difference in the G'Town game?  If so, he probably would have in this game.  G'Town is the only game Dawson got more than 17 minutes running the point all year...and the results were pretty good.

I do think Dawson made a difference in the Georgetown game, but that doesn't mean he would automatically make a difference in the Nova game.

Nova and G'town are two very different team constructions.  G'town is front court heavy with guards who shoot but aren't necessarily awesome shooters or great penetrators (average athletically).  Nova is very athletic, sometimes playing 4 guards, where their front line is relatively weak.  G'town also favors a zone whereas I can't remember ever seeing Nova play a zone.

Dawson is an athletic, aggressive player that is a decent outside shooter but below average defense, perfect match up against G'town.  Against Nova his strengths are relatively mitigated and his weaknesses are somewhat exposed.  He could have had a few more minutes of run to rest Derrick but I don't think he needed much more than that.

I do think he should have played the last 3 minutes of OT when MUs defense went completely porous and they needed shooters, but that doesn't have much to do with the first 40 minutes of the game.

[NersEllenson]

Dawson should have gotten more.  Simply to give Derrick more of a rest so he could save his energy defensively.  15 minutes would have been good.

But Ners your memory is wrong regarding Dawson in the game on Saturday.  He had three stretches of play during the game - and was negative +/- in every single one of them.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2014/01/25/villanova-94-marquette-85/plus_minus

Thanks for posting - never had seen this component of stat sheet - love it.  Guess my memory was wrong. 

Additionally, I love seeing the exact stints of run the chart you linked gives - Dawson had 2 stints of 3 minute runs, and then 2 stints of 1 minute runs - you simply cannot draw relevant conclusions from stints of run that short.  For example, in the -4 run, Dawson played for exactly 1 minute 20 seconds.  It's as easy to be -4 in just 3 possessions, the opposition scores twice and we have an empty possession in the middle.  That type of thing happens frequently in games..and it is far to short of sample size to draw relevant conclusion. 

For the 1000th time, we've seen 17 games of Derrick getting 27+ minutes per game..plenty of relevant sample size...and he hasn't shown any improvement all year...nor has the team.  That's my biggest beef.